KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Agility 125 => Topic started by: bthmtech on May 15, 2011, 03:20:10 PM
-
I have a 2009 agility 125,So far only mod is KEVLAR BELT. Bought 11g &13g sliders,thought I was buying dr. pulley but was sent OMOTO brand.I weigh 200lbs what should I start with,my main issue is mid band power lag not concerned with top end speed.Bike has 5k on it and runs great but lags after takeoff.Any help would be greatly appreciated ,thanks bthmtech.
-
;D Well I put in the 13g sliders,& I have two words to say ' HELL YES '.What a huge improvement!Do not know if I lost any top end yet was only able to get to 55 mph but the whole powerband has changed no mid band lag at all . not even going to try 11g .Does this mean it is time to start the ugly but great sport of modifying your scooter? Yours truly ,bthmtech
-
I agree, sliders are good, standard weight for agility is 13g. my top end hasn't changed, but it does pick up mid range better
-
Did you lose any gas mileage when you went to sliders I get about 80mpg now
-
I agree, sliders are good, standard weight for agility is 13g. my top end hasn't changed, but it does pick up mid range better
Nope, 14g!
-
Did you lose any gas mileage when you went to sliders I get about 80mpg now
I didn't go for sliders, but I dropped down from 14g to 12,4 or 13g (not sure) and
the fuel consumption on average went up by about 15%.
It gets a lot worse if you ride near the top speed, high revs = more fuel.
-
I have the agility City r16, but the original rollers were 18x14 13g weighed on very accurate digital scales, i know they're the same diameter and length as the agility, so assumed both being 125cc they would weigh the same. The sliders certainly smooth the take off and pick up, as for mileage, i'll let you know. One other thing regarding mileage, i used to ride with the headlight on permenantly ( to be noticed!) but i find it gets better mileage using just the sidelights. Safety or Economy?
-
Well,I have ridden the bike a couple of times now and it seems to be ok but clutch is grabbing at take off enough to pull front wheel off the ground ,is stock clutch strong enough to hold out?my bike has 6mths left under warrenty ,when that runs out i will be purchasing an upgraded clutch and variator set.Are the dr pully parts worth the extra money? Plus iam looking for braided front brake hose for my bike any suggs ,thanks bthmtech P.S. I LIVE IN N.C. U.S.A.
-
Well,I have ridden the bike a couple of times now and it seems to be ok but clutch is grabbing at take off enough to pull front wheel off the ground ,is stock clutch strong enough to hold out?my bike has 6mths left under warrenty ,when that runs out i will be purchasing an upgraded clutch and variator set.Are the dr pully parts worth the extra money? Plus iam looking for braided front brake hose for my bike any suggs ,thanks bthmtech P.S. I LIVE IN N.C. U.S.A.
The clutch issue has been mentioned in a few threads already.
It's easy to fix.
Hold both brakes in, open the throttle all the way, and slowly let go of the brakes until the
scooters starts rolling (slowly!).
Let the clutch slip.
Repeat 2-3 times.
Clutch fixed, back to smooth takeoffs.
-
Mr cortez, you mentioned something about 14g sliders would these work better than the 13gs,i weigh 200lbs
-
Mr cortez, you mentioned something about 14g sliders would these work better than the 13gs,i weigh 200lbs
I was talking about the stock OEM roller weights (not sliders) which were 14g on mine, and my manual
says they should be 14g from factory.
You can't say for any weights that they're "better" then the other ones.
Lighter weights = more revs = better acceleration and same or lower top speed, and worse MPG figures.
Heavier weights = less revs = worse acceleration but good top speed and better for high speed cruising.
14g weights on mine made the scooter very slow between 40 and 60km/h which is where most action
around town happens, and I wanted to make it react faster.. and it does now (but I don't know if
my weights are now 12,4g or 13g), but I'm not happy with the fuel consumption and the top speed
has dropped below 65mph indicated.
Dr Pulley sliders SHOULD work better then the stock (round) weights even if you get the exact same
weight because of the sliders design.
I haven't tried them, but Axy seems happy with his 13g pulleys on his Agility (browse the Agility
subforum a bit).
-
This is great.
1. For the first 300 kms, the sliders worked great.
2. In the next 100 kms, there was suddenly pronounced slipping, indicating that there is something wrong inside. The vario was disassembled today evening and sliders were replaced with new regular 13g roller weights. Two sliders were slightly more worn, and after 100 kms there should not be visible wear.
3. While everything was apart, belt was changed with a new one from scooterpartsmania, because current belt is about to end its life.
4. Everything was put back together, scoot was test driven and then variator cover was put back in place.
5. After 10 kms, the scoot's engine revs, but does not transfer power to rear wheel. What else am I to conclude but that the NEW belt snapped!!! The scoot was towed using a trailor this evening around 10 pm back to the garage. I hope nothing is bent or broken inside. Tomorrow in the evening, old belt will go back in place.
CONCLUSIONS: 1. Dr. Pulleys are bs, they sound great on paper, but most people report grave issues with them, I am obviously next in line. There are similar stories on X500 subforum. Use regular rollers.
2. Tomorrow I will confirm did BRAND NEW belt snap for no reason whatsoever.
3. I have no idea why crap like this always happens to me.
-
That's bad news Axy :( Please let us know what the damage is
-
Well I hate that happened to you, my scoot is my only transpo,Is your bike stock?
-
This is great.
1. For the first 300 kms, the sliders worked great.
2. In the next 100 kms, there was suddenly pronounced slipping, indicating that there is something wrong inside. The vario was disassembled today evening and sliders were replaced with new regular 13g roller weights. Two sliders were slightly more worn, and after 100 kms there should not be visible wear.
3. While everything was apart, belt was changed with a new one from scooterpartsmania, because current belt is about to end its life.
4. Everything was put back together, scoot was test driven and then variator cover was put back in place.
5. After 10 kms, the scoot's engine revs, but does not transfer power to rear wheel. What else am I to conclude but that the NEW belt snapped!!! The scoot was towed using a trailor this evening around 10 pm back to the garage. I hope nothing is bent or broken inside. Tomorrow in the evening, old belt will go back in place.
CONCLUSIONS: 1. Dr. Pulleys are bs, they sound great on paper, but most people report grave issues with them, I am obviously next in line. There are similar stories on X500 subforum. Use regular rollers.
2. Tomorrow I will confirm did BRAND NEW belt snap for no reason whatsoever.
3. I have no idea why crap like this always happens to me.
You're a magnet for crap like this just like me.
That's why I always ask/check about everything on multiple forums and research buying a pocket
knife for months. It's amazing how short they lasted.. I can't think of anything that would cause
them to wear out that fast.
-
jesus,
im trying to buy dr pulleys, and after this thred --- dont really know... maybe
But I think that the belt was too short...743?
-
Old belt is back on, I hope nothing is bent.
Here is the new (!) belt after 7 kms.
It is OEM dimensions 781x20. I have this confirmed because I took picture of the new belt before installing (snapping!) and checked 100 times I ordered the right length and width.
I am enclosing this picture too.
Crap magnet: confirmed.
Beware that this issue is not slider related. Sliders just started shuddering after 800 kms, new rollers and belt were installed yesterday and belt exploded.
Sliders seem to be crap for other reasons. :)
I must be the only idiot on this forum who maintains the scoot overzealously just to CAUSE the issue I am trying to avoid by regular maintenance!!!
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! :( ??? :-[
-
I have checked, sliders were in vario for 850 kms.
Here is what they look like.
It is hard to evaluate wear level, but to me they seem a bit too worn for just 850 kms.
OEM rollers lasted for first 12.500 kms and looked fine when I replaced them.
-
Finally, clutch was disassembled and cleaned. Threads of blown belt were tied around the axle, so it had to be disassembled.
Here is what the clutch looks like after exactly 24.000 kms.
-
...
-
I think wear seems reasonable..ish, so why did a new belt snap??? poor manufacture? i hope you can get some compensation for your trouble!
-
AXY ,it looks like you have either grease or trans oil on your clutch shoes,when I took mine apart I noticed grease from the clutch bearing was on my shoes ,It was also built up in the clutch bell,so I cleaned it up good with brakekleen and had to "burn in clutch".I have been an import auto tech for over 25 yrs and sometimes when shoes get contaminated they do not work correctly afterwords mine still grabs pretty bad after burn in ,so I am getting ready to recheck,will let you know how it turns out , bthmtech
-
AXY ,it looks like you have either grease or trans oil on your clutch shoes,when I took mine apart I noticed grease from the clutch bearing was on my shoes ,It was also built up in the clutch bell,so I cleaned it up good with brakekleen and had to "burn in clutch".I have been an import auto tech for over 25 yrs and sometimes when shoes get contaminated they do not work correctly afterwords mine still grabs pretty bad after burn in ,so I am getting ready to recheck,will let you know how it turns out , bthmtech
Nothing wet there, it was just dust and debris from the belt. All cleaned now and slightly sanded.
-
threds around rear axle....only kevlar have threds...kevlar 781 is just too short...800 is ok....
did u put sliders right? think becouse something needs to be wrong...
u cant have that bad luck.....
-
Well did redress on clutch shoes & bell ,works great now,got 6mths left on warrenty then its katy bar the doors! this is my 2nd kymco first was 04 zx50 witch needless to say I went to town on,I do not think there was a stock part left on it.I got it to do 60mph but she was an evil being.Do not want to get to that point with this bike,I just want it to be stronger.Top speed is not what I am looking for,0to60mph is what I need,going to start with dr.pully variator&clutch can get for $375 has anyone used this setup?
-
threds around rear axle....only kevlar have threds...kevlar 781 is just too short...800 is ok....
did u put sliders right? think becouse something needs to be wrong...
u cant have that bad luck.....
The sliders were put correctly.
Question: OEM belt is 781, the snapped one was 781. Why do you think kevlar should be longer?
-
The sliders were put correctly.
Question: OEM belt is 781, the snapped one was 781. Why do you think kevlar should be longer?
Less 'stretchy'?
Wild guess.
-
The sliders were put correctly.
Question: OEM belt is 781, the snapped one was 781. Why do you think kevlar should be longer?
Well,
mine kevlar was too short and it brake after 20km. and threds gather up at front axle and screwed up oil ring........
i think that u put sliders wrong way
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TFZ8QZojcbI/AAAAAAAAIWk/PUdjmOOCmfQ/s912/IMG_5981.JPG)
-
They were installed correctly, not like on this picture.
-
then,
ill stay with rollers.....just lighter and stiffer central spring....
thanks
-
then,
ill stay with rollers.....just lighter and stiffer central spring....
thanks
I see no big added value of sliders, but might try to put them back in later (I have ordered a pulley blocking tool but I am not sure will it fit because it is for 50 cc GY6s).
There is another issue. I wonder if, as the time goes, the ramp (groove) where the rollers roll/sliders slide might get a bit worn, just so much that some of the rollers/sliders get stuck in upper positions... or that tolerances are not that tight and some grooves are a bit larger/deeper and some are not.
This might explain why some of the roller weights get worn more easily. For example, whenever you tear apart vario, you will notice that 1, 2 or 3 rollers have flat spots while others look like new. In case of this specific A125, it is two rollers, and two sliders too.
I also think that story about longevity of sliders is exaggerated and theoretically, they probably do increase both acceleration and top speed marginally because they close the gap better, but in real life, there are so many things that might prevent this (state of the ramps, plate, tolerances etc.)
This is not exact science, and everybody should try what suits him best.
Now I have the problem of the belt. Where do I buy it and avoid paying 60 US$ for it?
-
auto krešo: dayco 8172k
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M6113148/Belt+MALOSSI+XKevlar+for.aspx (http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M6113148/Belt+MALOSSI+XKevlar+for.aspx)
-
auto krešo: dayco 8172k
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M6113148/Belt+MALOSSI+XKevlar+for.aspx (http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M6113148/Belt+MALOSSI+XKevlar+for.aspx)
Great, tnx.
Auto Kreso is 2 kms away from my house. :)
Do you remember the price by any chance?
Btw. is belt the same for your and my gf's scoot (you have "long" GY6 because of large wheels, she has the short one)?
I had no freakin' idea Kreso is selling scoot belts!
Btw. would it fit her stock vario? Do you have stock vario or Multivar/something like that?
Thanks!
-
..............I also think that story about longevity of sliders is exaggerated and theoretically, they probably do increase both acceleration and top speed marginally because they close the gap better, but in real life, there are so many things that might prevent this (state of the ramps, plate, tolerances etc.)
This is not exact science, and everybody should try what suits him best.
Now I have the problem of the belt. Where do I buy it and avoid paying 60 US$ for it?
Agree, sliders don't last as long as OEM rollers. Best thing to do is get OEM rollers, then lighten them. Use a narrow round file to file the insides, and a gram scale. Variator tuning can be a drag, but the challenge of finding the right combo is fun. Ya have to ride to figure it out, I like to ride, so tuning gives me a reason just to ride more.
As far as the belt, good luck. It's looking like 743, or 781 are too short. I'm going to try a Zoomer/Ruckus belt. A Kitaco, and a Polini. Spare parts from my Rucks. They are bigger than 781. I'm thinking an 803-808mm length by 18-20mm width would work best. Then get a kevlar. The right one, not all kevlar/aramid belts are created equal. Once ya find a good one, buy 3 and never worry about it again.
-
dayco 8172k is around 220kn....
krešo also have rms, ebc, ngk for scoots too.....but join mojskuter forum ---- slowrider is selling stuff from sip and sa (sombody else)....
need cheep stuff just talk to me, coz i usually pay too much for the first time then i learn my lesson...... ;D
i have malossi multivar, but its like original....maybe better calculation of steep...no hole between 40-60kph --- bigger rollers 20x17 and bolcna...thats it----it uses same vent cover, ergo same size---
bando 781x19,8 is original, but i dont like missing kevlar, have 1500rpm central spring and transmission is firm and hotter than orig....
short wheel base 743
normal base 781
long base 200cc and bigger bore is 842
the only great stuff about kymco is that i know 90% more then kymco service and retail in croatia..... stupid people, kymco is raising with new models and have this kind of breaking light here....
http://www.topmoto.hr/index2.php (http://www.topmoto.hr/index2.php) is sun in the sky with custumer service and everytime i called them have fast response...still karmat, no no...wanted for left side mirror 50 bucks...idiots....bought 2new (honda sh) for $40....damn heads in there asses....let me say idiots once again.... :D
-
dayco 8172k is around 220kn....
krešo also have rms, ebc, ngk for scoots too.....but join mojskuter forum ---- slowrider is selling stuff from sip and sa (sombody else)....
need cheep stuff just talk to me, coz i usually pay too much for the first time then i learn my lesson...... ;D
i have malossi multivar, but its like original....maybe better calculation of steep...no hole between 40-60kph --- bigger rollers 20x17 and bolcna...thats it----it uses same vent cover, ergo same size---
bando 781x19,8 is original, but i dont like missing kevlar, have 1500rpm central spring and transmission is firm and hotter than orig....
short wheel base 743
normal base 743
long base 200cc and bigger bore is 842
the only great stuff about kymco is that i know 90% more then kymco service and retail in croatia..... stupid people, kymco is raising with new models and have this kind of breaking light here....
http://www.topmoto.hr/index2.php (http://www.topmoto.hr/index2.php) is sun in the sky with custumer service and everytime i called them have fast response...still karmat, no no...wanted for left side mirror 50 bucks...idiots....bought 2new (honda sh) for $40....damn heads in there asses....let me say idiots once again.... :D
You seem to be a source of good quality info. :) Tnx!
-
A little off topic.... Big Bore!!!! My buddy on his Ruckus/Zoomer GY6 hits 85+mph.... think he's 180cc.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg56/14huejass/IMAG0529.jpg)
-
WTF is this monster?!? ;D :D ;)
-
Well it most have cost a lot of time and money, i like the paint job, it may be fast in a straight line... but i think your average Agility would blow it away in the city corners!
Back to the topic, i started with 13g sliders which were better than rollers, i've now fitted 12.5g, now has great acceleration, top end as standard. So i would reccomend. Next problem, would i fit a kevlar belt? not sure. How do different rate clutch springs affect the ride?
-
ruckus looks like cusum bike with only 180cc....but why?
12g with serial central spring is ok...
harder spring means that scoot is goin to take off much sooner...
on 1500 2000 2500rpms, but most off them havent got much torque at that rpms....
i have 2000 and 12.25g and its ok on 205kg...
-
Slider weights work better than OEM, but don't last as long. Check every 2000km, or 1200miles.
A higher torque spring will usually require a higher weight slider/roller in your variator. The spring puts pressure on the clutch pulley so it always wants to run high, and low on the variator. Revs will be higher because the rollers/sliders have to work harder with the extra force to move the belt up on the variator. The 1000, 1500, and 2000rpm will usually increase the revs by that amount at whatever speed you are.
I plan on getting a 1Krpm torque spring on the NCY Clutch kit.
To tune your variator, try different combos..... I usually buy heavier ones and use a file to lighten them. As the belt wears, you need to increase the slider/roller weight so the belt rides higher. I shaved my drive face and variator a bit to push the belt up higher, doing so requires a weight reduction. Going to do some variator tuning tonight.
Anyone try the D-Sliders from MRP? I have always used Dr. Pulley. D-Sliders are 1/2 the price though.
-
Slider weights work better than OEM, but don't last as long. Check every 2000km, or 1200miles.
Every 2000km?
I'd have to check them almost once a month then.
No thanks.
Not worth the trouble.
-
ru sure?
sliders have much bigger sliding surface...
just cant be truth...dr pulley r made from different material.....sliding without fiction more and less.... ;)
-
They'd probably last 2400km, but running them in my 50cc, I checked them every 1K miles. They were worn. Probably get 2000 miles out them before I'd start worrying about messing something up. I clean out the variator/clutch area every 900miles anyways. It takes less than 5 minutes to take off the cover and take off the variator, if you have a variator tool. No big deal here.
-
Well its been 1000K since I installed 13G sliders and my scoot performs better than ever,low end is better,no mid range lag and top end is much better.I have not taken variator apart to check condition but I go buy, IF IT IS NOT BROKEN DO NOT FIX IT! My top end used to be 68MPH [ACCORDING TO SPEEDO],Now it is unknown because I backed off at 80MPH [according to speedo].MPG is up from 80mpg to 85mpg.I think that all riders/bikes are different.The only other mod that I have made is a MALLOSI KEVLAR BELT size 795x19.8x30. I hope this will be helpful, BTHMTECH
-
Well its been 1000K since I installed 13G sliders and my scoot performs better than ever,low end is better,no mid range lag and top end is much better.I have not taken variator apart to check condition but I go buy, IF IT IS NOT BROKEN DO NOT FIX IT! My top end used to be 68MPH [ACCORDING TO SPEEDO],Now it is unknown because I backed off at 80MPH [according to speedo].MPG is up from 80mpg to 85mpg.I think that all riders/bikes are different.The only other mod that I have made is a MALLOSI KEVLAR BELT size 795x19.8x30. I hope this will be helpful, BTHMTECH
I find this a bit hard to believe..
-
You can believe it or not,I state only facts. My scoot has been serviced by myself ever since it was new, as I stated MPH are according to speedo readings, I do not think they are correct,but my MPG has been calculated by filling tank 1 gal at a time and recording mileage.I also installed mich pilot sport sc tires when scoot was new.I only use AMSOIL engine and gear oil both of which provide better protection and performance.As I have stated before I am an ASE certified master tech.and I have been riding and repairing scooters for over 10yrs.I also believe that most people do not have the knowledge or ability to repair or service there own scoots. bhtmtech
-
Yeah, you're probably right, but you'll also probably agree that lighter weights = more revs =
more fuel. I don't doubt the change in performance for the better.. but I doubt the MPG
figures have anything to do with the change, probably just rode a bit slower that last tank.
I went from 14g to 13g weights (standard, not pulleys) which improved the acceleration
a lot, but the top speed went down from about 70 to 60mph, and MPG figures went down
by 20%, more or less.
I've got 6k miles on the 14g weights, and maybe 3k miles on the 13g now and have checked
my fuel consumption probably 50+ times.. Easy throttle inputs and speeds up to 40mph result
in about the same consumption, but anything over that, the revs go up significantly and so
does the consumption.
-
I think that bthmtech is reading Kmh not Mph. There is no way a 50 or 125cc standard scooter will go much above 65mph, they are geared that way. Only way to go above that is to fit bigger wheels, or alter the final drive gears, which would drastically reduce acceleration!
-
I think that bthmtech is reading Kmh not Mph. There is no way a 50 or 125cc standard scooter will go much above 65mph, they are geared that way. Only way to go above that is to fit bigger wheels, or alter the final drive gears, which would drastically reduce acceleration!
Nah, he's not, even with much more lighter weights, he could still go over 80kph.
I've seen 73-74mph on my speedo with stock gearing and some wind in my back.. but
the speedo is very optimistic.
-
I think that bthmtech is reading Kmh not Mph. There is no way a 50 or 125cc standard scooter will go much above 65mph, they are geared that way. Only way to go above that is to fit bigger wheels, or alter the final drive gears, which would drastically reduce acceleration!
yeap, think this is a fact....maybe rear one 130/90 16....
cant change vario size....
cant change tran diff...
but can change rear tire.......))) ;D
-
OK,Here is the skinny,I had my girlfriend follow me today in her truck,When I was going 80 MPH HER SPEEDO READ 75.MY tires are stock size 130/70/12 rear 120/70/12 front,but I run 32psi in front and 42psi in rear which makes for less rolling resistance.MPG can be achieved by soft take offs and I very rarely go over 45mph.I only run 94 octane gas [I can only get this from one gas station here].The reason I run such high pressure in rear is because mich makes 2 different styles of this tire and one is higher speed rating than the other.As I stated before,using premium fluids is a big plus.Also as with cars no two bikes are the same, plus dealer prep and break in have a lot to do with performance of any vehicle. BTHMTECH PS SHE WANTED TO KILL ME FOR RIDING SO FAST!
-
OK,Here is the skinny,I had my girlfriend follow me today in her truck,When I was going 80 MPH HER SPEEDO READ 75.
What makes you think her speedo is any better? ;D
Seriously, I've had speedo errors (compared to GPS) range from 1mph at 60 up to 6mph tops on
different bikes and cars.
My Kawasaki after changing the gearing is SPOT ON at 60mph, however the Agility is the worst
vehicle I've tested for the error (the 6mph error I mentioned).
Most are around 2-3mph at 60.
-
What makes you think her speedo is any better? ;D
Seriously, I've had speedo errors (compared to GPS) range from 1mph at 60 up to 6mph tops on
different bikes and cars.
My Kawasaki after changing the gearing is SPOT ON at 60mph, however the Agility is the worst
vehicle I've tested for the error (the 6mph error I mentioned).
Most are around 2-3mph at 60.
Piaggios are not any better. In fact, all 50 cc scoots are bigtime liars.
-
You guys are killing me!Regardless of what the true speed is all I was trying to do was point out the difference!All I KNOW IS MY SCOOT PERFORMS MUCH BETTER NOW!Longevity of sliders is unknown.I baby my scoot as it is my only transpo.We are talking about scooters here,not trying to solve world peace,take a chill pill, BTHMTECH
-
Sorry bmtech, of course you're right, it ain't the end of the world, yet :D, what is important is that you enjoy your ride, go in peace......I think i need 12.7 sliders, or more power, then heavier sliders?
-
Piaggios are not any better. In fact, all 50 cc scoots are bigtime liars.
My 50cc Peugeot was off by 3mph at 50mph, half the Agility's error.