KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: sissy mary on April 26, 2011, 01:41:04 AM
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I had just put in new set Dr pulley weights and a Melossi kevlar belt. Changed the oil and so on to take a trip to Michigan form here in Phoenix. I had a 4-5 day window when the weather was going to be in the high 70's to about 80 to get there. All was going fine until the 3rd day. At about 1,550 miles into the trip the belt blew on highway 72 near springfield IL. I had to have in towed to a little shop in Jacksonville. I then had to rent a car and head off to MI. At first thought I suspected the Dr P's had hung up as others have stated on this forum? I spent about half a day (monday) on the net and phone trying to get a Kymco dealer to order and over night a new belt and set of stock rollers. Some dealers were closed, of the one's open only one would take the time to bother. A honda/Kymco dealer in Maumee Ohio ordered the parts over night, and I drove the 110 mile round trip the next day to get the parts. Kymco USA will not send parts to an individual? AS-HOLES! I called Kymco USA first thing monday morning to order and get the parts sent over night to the shop in Il, but no can do, AS-HOLES. I could not even get them to send the parts to a dealer (pre-payed). No can do. AS-HOLES. The dealer must order the parts and express that they want the parts over nighted? Did I say AS-HOLES before? The first call I made to Kymco USA was to the customer service line where I was told to leave a message on the voice mail and a customer service rep would return my call shortly. I'M STILL WAITING FOR THEIR F_ING RETURN CALL! Oh by the way, I stated in the message that I was broke down in the middle of no where and needed parts/help ASAP. NO RETURN CALL? Two of the other dealers I talked to said they would look up the part numbers and call me right back! NEITHER BOTHEREDTO CALL BACK? Another A-HOLE called back late after noon (THE NEXT DAY), only to say sorry, he was just so busy, ( I guess he was just to busy to help the poor bastard who was broke down 1,550 miles from home? I am thinking of selling the bike! With horse SH-T customer service like this from Kymco USA and their dealer net work, who needs it. I might get another maxi scooter like a Majesty or Bergman or Silver wing? Who knows? All I know is I need someone to stand behind their product. Everytime I have called Kymco their responce has always been, (why are you bothering us)? Rude, snotty, and the girl/lady who answers the phone must be the manager of the sales prevention department. Anyway, I drive back to Il with the new parts. The shop owner shows me the belt! I swear to GOD it looked like a box full of shreaded yarn, bits of plastic, cotton and twine. It didn't break, it exploded. It must have been super heated. And worst of all the sleeve the slider housing slides back and forth, or in and out on had seized it's self inside of the slider housing. For some reason it had got super hot? It took a press to get the sleeve out! He cleaned up both parts with emery cloth and put it back together agian. It was fine the 500 miles to my mothers house (thank GOD). Did the Dr P's get jamed up in the housing? Did this cause the belt to ride on the sleeve heating it up? After reading many old post on this forum I think Kymco may have a design flaw? As one poster had said his belt had broke and the dealer said they had to put in a new pulley side with a new lube? I think they ment a lube or grease behine the seal located on the out side of the out side or front half side pulley next to the roller housing? This may explain why the sleeve super heated and froze inside of the pulley half? All I know is I am out about $1'000 do to this break down, and it added an extra 1,000 miles to my trip. Plus the cost of the Dr P's, kevlar belt, and the cost to install all of it. Any thoughts? What do you think? Am I on to something or not? If I keep the bike I am going to install an after market variator and clutch. I think it's a design flaw in the sleeve area of the variator? Maybe a J Costa with a Melossi clutch? Or a Melossi variator and clutch set up? I have heard to many bad things about the Dr P clutch. Please comment. Sissy Mary. >:(
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Didn't you leave the washer out of the variator, Sissy? When I did that I noticed a lot of extra heat in my CVT after just a few miles of riding so I put it back in. Later noticed I had ruined my brand new Gates belt in just that few miles. That's all chronicled in various posts here. So that may be a big part of the problem. If it did heat up above normal temps, that would've made the sleeve seize inside the pulley. I noticed mine was getting dry and tight after that episode so I always check, clean it, and lube it VERY LIGHTLY when I have it apart.
Also, I've heard people state they won't go near a mallosi belt ever again.
Therefore, my opinion, based on what you've shared so far, would be it's somewhere in one or both of those two things. Not the sliders or any fault in the OEM parts.
Sorry it had to happen the way it did for you, in any case. >:(
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No, everything was put in right, in the correct order. I stood there and watched them change out the Dr P's and belt. I remember people talking about this washer and I made sure it was put back in right. I even had the Ohio dealer print out the page that show's everything in an exploded view. The shop guy in Il was wordering about this washer and why it was located where it was? He was surprized to see that it was installed correct as he thought that it may have been put in wrong? But it was not. Good thought though. Any more suggestions? Any body? I hope this is not a design flaw? But it may be? I hope this does not happen to anyone else. Has anyone heard of a recall or dealer alert about this problem? New kevlar belts should not explode. Sissy Marry. >:(
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I have never heard of good results with other than the OEM belts, period -- regardless of Kymco model. I have, OTOH, heard of many cases of Kevlar "performance" belts doing exactly as described, above, and often at mileages far, far below what one might imagine (as in this case).
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Well, then! How about did the tech check slider fit in the ramps for the problem drifter and I found? I'd really have that looked at closely. Just dropping the sliders in, one wouldn't notice the fit problem. One has to slide the sliders all the way up and down the ramps by hand and they must slide freely all the way up and out of the ramps.
Still, I'd be suspecting the belt just not being right . . . or should I say not quite right for our application, as I HAVE heard really bad reports about malossi belts.
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I had just put in new set Dr pulley weights and a Melossi kevlar belt.
You know that the Malossi belt for the Xciting has different specs than the OEM belt. Mentioned again in this topic:
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3488.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3488.0)
Sorry, but don't blame Kymco Taiwan for your experiments.
You may blame Kymco USA for their customer service though. But I can imagine what you might have experienced in other countries during easter festivals.
Or with Piaggio products during August vacations (in Italy, 1 month without any service!).
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maybe the belt wasn't put back right before your trip? shredded my first malossi belt just under 5tkms after installing it wrong also ruined my drive face.
what happened was after a 100km++ trip on express ways i noticed that the sliders rolled again. (this always puts a smile on my face. bought a slider that rolls!!!) so removed the pulley and checked on the sliders. when i was putting it back on i didn't check the belt after tightening the pulley'it should be loose and not clamped on the pulle. after 50km or so the screw on the pulley went loose.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree with all stated post above. That's why I went back to original parts to repair the bike. What I still do not understand? Is why the sleeve super heated and froze inside the outside pulley? This could not be caused by the Dr P's! This could not be caused by the Melossi belt. The variator was working perfect. I was doing a steady 70 MPH, at about 6,000 RPM. So everything was working the way it was supposed to. I was not speeding up or slowing down. So for the sliders to hang up I would have had to (probably) slow down first, for them to get cought? I think the sleeve-variator is a design flaw, or at least needs to be improved upon? I can not find anyone who has gone 30,000 without this happening? :-*
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I don't know enough about your particular malfunction, despite your good description of it... but I suspect the belt friction on the driven faces of the pulleys could generate enough heat to cause what you described. I doubt the issue was caused by the Dr. Pulley sliders, because if they were getting stuck within the range of the variator ramps, the worst that would likely happen is that you would not be reaching top speed for the RPM range of the engine. I hope you have better luck with the OEM belt!
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Yes, I think you are right about the Dr P's. I do not see how (if they were stuck), how this could cause enough heat to do this damage? I was wondering today that maybe the Melossi belt is a millimeter or so to short? Would this cause the heat? Could this cause the heat? The sleeve was burnished pretty bad! I don't know if a belt could cause this? But maybe if the belt was a little short, and if this put more (side pulling presure) (presure on the sleeve and pulley half), then maybe this could cause the heat and the seize of the 2 parts? I guess I will never know for sure? But it sure bothers me to ride it now wondering if it will seize up again at any time! Should I change over to a J Costa? Should I buy a new outer pulley and sleeve? Or a Melossi variator kit? Did my clutch get any damage with all of the crap flying around inside the housing? Sissy.
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i don't think that the malossi belt would overheat if it was shorter than the oem. i rode mine for 16hours straight with just 5x 5min gas stop and 2 15 min food break. still no problem considering the weather here. just be carefull when disassembling and putting it back together.
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Hey, Sissy Mary, sorry to hear about your rough trip...I am a firm beliver in OEM parts...sure you may pickup speed or torque, but nothing beats what the factory setup.
Hope all works out, don't give up on KYMCOUSA.
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Sorry about the belt. :-[
I'm new to Kymco's - but familiar with CVT's and the promises of better accelleration due to lighter weights or different ramps. You get better accelleration by running the engine at a higher rpm at the same speed. That means you are going to be running hotter. It also means that you are putting more torque on parts, hence reliability is going to go down.
I've used a Malossi belt, but I used it with a Malossi Variator. Because I've seen differences in the ramp angles / belt shapes - I'll only use belts and variators that are the same brand.
I'm also familiar with complaints of DR P's causing belt problems on Yamaha Zuma's.
Lighter weights cause the engine (and the belt) to run at a higher RPM for the same speed - increasing the applied force, temperature and wear. Weights that are too light may not push the ramp out properly which results in good acceleration but a drop in top speed - they can also cause a wobble which dramatically increases wear.
A new belt, new weights, new variator or new rear pulley all need to be broken in. Just like chains and sprockets on a motorcycle - I'd also replace them all together.
After the upgrade - what changes did you notice? Did your top speed go down, any new noises or vibrations? You were cruising at a steady 6000 rpm - was this for a long time? Had you broken in the new parts before starting this 3 day trip? What rpm do you run at 70mph now? After the upgrade but before the failure - did the bike not roll as freely as before (when not running)? If the nut that holds the clutch on comes loose - then it can let the pads on the outside radius of the bell causing a drag and damage.
The way that I look at it - is that the manufacturer picked a setup that was a compromise between reliability, fuel economy, and acceleration properties. If that weight roller, ramp shape, spring strength... were reliable - then they would have used it.
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What people now called modifications, mods, or upgrades were something different back in the old days. (I'm allowed to say, "Back in the old days because I have gray hair) Back then, it was known as a hot rod or street racer, and the price for adding performance parts was constant tinkering and maintaining of precision tolerances. That's the machine you get when you build your own.
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What people now called modifications, mods, or upgrades were something different back in the old days. (I'm allowed to say, "Back in the old days because I have gray hair) Back then, it was known as a hot rod or street racer, and the price for adding performance parts was constant tinkering and maintaining of precision tolerances. That's the machine you get when you build your own.
And Scramblers are now adventure bikes, Rat Racers are now Super Motards, and two strokes only exist as 50cc. I miss the smell of two stroke oil...
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Just for clarification, Sissy installed one gram heavier than stock sliders -- not lighter.
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ummm burning two stroke oil on a motocross track
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I have never heard of good results with other than the OEM belts, period -- regardless of Kymco model. I have, OTOH, heard of many cases of Kevlar "performance" belts doing exactly as described, above, and often at mileages far, far below what one might imagine (as in this case).
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Same here, and now that I have a SW same thing.
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I just got an xciting 250 and I was wondering, is there a mileage that any of you would suggest a preemptive belt change just to stay ahead of the curve and not have a roadside situation? What other parts might I want to keep on hand if I can find them for a decent price and I intend to drive the bike many miles?
Also, are there any manuals that give directions for DIY repairs? I'm thinking of the many volumes of Chilton manuals my dad kept for our cars to do jobs like dropping the transmission. I'd like to do my own work if I can.
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My first belt lasted over 25,000 miles. I put on a new one and the variator froze, almost welded itself together 1,500 miles after that. If the 250 uses the same variator set up? I would change out the belt, the 2 pulley halfs and the bushing/sleeve (the outer pully slides in and out on) at or around 20,000 miles or so. Or change to a malossi variator and maybe clutch. Just a suggestion.