KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Red Horn on April 03, 2011, 09:01:38 PM
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Hello all. I have posted requests for info/feedback in a couple scooter forums with little to no response. Today I found you guys today :~) Since I am 90% sure that Kymco is the brand for me I will resubmit my posts here in hopes of getting the guidance desired. Thanks in advance for any and all welcomed comments.
Red
I have been all over the web for the past week looking for info on a scooter for my short commute to school and around town. I live in the California desert and traffic moves along briskly on most roads between 40 and 60 MPH. Soon ruled out the 50cc models and think a 150cc (or possibly 125) will meet my speed and budgetary requirements. Vaspa's have always been "cool" to me, but seems the Italian highly trendy machines command too much of a premium. Don't get me wrong as I realize they are at the top quality wise. Have all but settled on the Kymco People 150 as it has way more positive remarks than negative and I find the 16" wheels appealing. Today I read that the CA machines have that extra emissions equipment that causes potential issues with many models. How much validity is there to this? How does this added stuff affect the performance and reliability? Should I be concerned at all? Going out of state if even possible to purchase and register here would be a big hassle.
Decided to go with closest dealer that is about a hour away. If a 150 is the final decision it will be the Super 8.
***Update***
Today I found out about the SYM machines and your forum (not here). the SYM offerings seem comparable to Kymco with the added feature of liquid cooling and added power outputs. A 200cc now seems like it may be an ideal mid-point. Although the SYM HD 125 has about the same power as the People 200 S. The HD 200 ups the ante even further. Is it basically flip a coin between Kymco and SYM? With more complex engines do the SYM machines require more maintenance?
Currently I do not have an absolute need for highway speed and the roadways that are 45-55 limited can be mostly avoided by alternate routes if necessary.
250cc too much of a $ stretch. The Kymco People S 200 or Yager GT 200i may be possible. How do these models rank? In my mind I want a first scoot that will still have value come trade-up time two or three years down the road. There is also a strong possibility if first is reliable and still fully serviceable I might just add another bigger one to the stable.
Took CA Motorcycle Safety Class, have M classification, and have ridden about 30,000 miles back in 80's / 90's.
Now think the People 250 S, although a big financial stretch could be a possibility. It seems to have more versatility.
My current ideas:
Agility 125 is out.
Super 8 150 is currently at the top. Seems economically priced and fast enough for local uses.
Above 150cc think opting for People 250 S over 200 would be the wiser choice. Liquid cooling for longer engine life, added performance capability, and three disc brakes.
Thoughts / Comments?
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Hi and welcome, you seem like a shrewd guy, I shouldn't really comment as we can't get those models in the UK, but i have assessed them and i think the super 8 is great looking, the s250 is more old school (you like the Vespa?) and twin discs up front would swing it for me. hmmm.. heart over head? I say s250
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If you are going to be traveling on roads with speeds up to 60 mph and you plan on staying with 60 mph traffic, I would suggest you go with a scooter that has at least 150-200cc's...and preferably the latter for hill-climbing, speed-maintaining and some reserve power (even on flat roads) on tap. 150cc scoots that I have ridden, with few exceptions and depending on the scoot, require you to operate them close to or at wide open throttle to travel around 60 mph, especially if there is wind in your face and/or hills involved. Some 150cc scoots, like lighter and fuel-injected ones aren't too bad for speeds around 60 mph, but on most 150cc's, you'll likely be wishing you had a little more power on occasion. If you can afford to go with a 200cc class scoot, I doubt you'll regret it. BTW, what is your budget range? As far as the brand goes, stick with a brand that has a great dealership network...that is key. Brands that have week dealer networks have terrible parts and servicing situations, which is reflected in the resale value down the road. I like the SYM HD200, it's a real sweet scoot, however, I wouldn't touch a SYM product until they get their US distributor situation shored-up real good and that's gonna take several years. You will pay more for brands that have a better dealer network, but it's usually money well-spent in the long run.
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I had the People's S200 and found the unit was only 162cc or so. Meanwhile, I am 6'1" and 245-250 lbs and needed something larger. I didn't like the front end on the 200 when I went 45 or so. Anyway, I don't believe I will have another scooter too soon therefore for the above mentioned, I purchased a Downtown 300i. I am not a speedster nor will I be but for hill's, some of the local highway's it's nice to have the power to pull up more or pass or just feel more comand when you need it. More money, yes but, I am really glad I made this change. And about "Kymco", so far I find this Kymco Forum very helpfull with the people on it. Note: It is not affiliated with Kymco itself as the intro read's. Good Luck
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Don't know where you are located but if your budget would let you buy a new 150, try looking for a used 250. You can pick up a used 250 with low miles for $2500 or less in most parts of the country. I ride a Grand Vista 250, mostly in the city, but if I need to do highway trips I have enough power to keep up with traffic or pass a truck when needed. The People 250 has the same engine but has larger size wheels.
These scooters can easily give you service for 50,000 plus miles if maintained. Good luck with your choice. Please note that almost EVERYONE that rides wants a little more horsepower than they currently have. Just a thought.
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If you are going to be traveling on roads with speeds up to 60 mph and you plan on staying with 60 mph traffic, I would suggest you go with a scooter that has at least 150-200cc's...and preferably the latter for hill-climbing, speed-maintaining and some reserve power (even on flat roads) on tap. BTW, what is your budget range? As far as the brand goes, stick with a brand that has a great dealership network...that is key. Brands that have week dealer networks have terrible parts and servicing situations, which is reflected in the resale value down the road. I like the SYM HD200, it's a real sweet scoot, however, I wouldn't touch a SYM product until they get their US distributor situation shored-up real good and that's gonna take several years. You will pay more for brands that have a better dealer network, but it's usually money well-spent in the long run.
Still thinking Super 8 150 to simply get around locally. If going to invest >$3000 would probably look for a 250-500cc motorcycle. Basically dismissed SYM for lack of availability and knowledge of dealers I did find. Doubt I will buy a used scooter. Really want a warranty since it's my first. The Kymco two year is a big plus to me as well. Thanks for the responses guys and gals and will post pics when a choice finally hits the driveway.
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I have the P250 (vintage style) the P250S (sporty) is essentially the same bike with a different frame and plastics. The Grand Vista is the same engine with a lower slung seat that is short leg friendly but I think it is essentially the same mechanicals. The Bet&win is also the same engine is a different wrapper. The B&W is no longer available in the US but can be found in the used market.
As for the decision between a 150 and a 250, I am a larger guy and I like the confidence the 250 provides. If I am guessing correctly, you are near Victorville/Apple Valley. If so and you want to ride down to Ontario, get a 250. I like the performance the 250 provide on freeways and it would be able to stay above 50 MPH coming up the grade. A 150, while freeway capable is not confidence inspiring at these speeds.
If you are rarely going on the freeway, a P150 will be an excellent bike. The Super 8 is about the same engine with a very different look. I think they change the gasket to add the extra cc or two to differentiate the two bikes in the eyes of the EPA. Some states have different driver requirements between a 149cc and a 150cc bike with the smaller bike not requiring a full M1 license. In California, the requirement break is at 50cc so nearly all scooters require a full M1.
SYM makes nice bikes but the current distributor Cater Bros. had a fire and since then has not been supporting the US dealers. The west coast? distributorship appears to be Lance but that has not been officially announced, to my knowledge. IIRC, the US dealers are buying parts from the distributors and dealers in Canada (at retail at times)
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I have the P250 (vintage style) the P250S (sporty) is essentially the same bike with a different frame and plastics.
This is a common misconception. Even though they are quite similar, the engine has a number of different parts. I saw even on this forum claims how they are the same.
Valves are different, so are some parts of the cylinder.
P250 develops 2 hp less. It is even stated in the user's manual for P250/P250S.
Furthermore, S has two discs in the front, 250 has one.
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I bought my first scooter a few months ago. I considered a People 150 and people 200 but ended up with a Super 8. I've been happy with my decision. I have done a couple of ride reports that may interest if you are considering a Super 8.
Links: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647784 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647784)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670468 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670468)
And here's a nice pic of my super 8
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2011%20PICS/killboy3-19-11-Copy2.jpg)
Photo by Killboy (www.killboy.com (http://www.killboy.com))
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And here's a nice pic of my super 8
Very nice indeed 8). My favorite color combo as well. Thanks for posting
I test rode the 200. Very comfortable and more power than the 150s but it handled like crap. It did not like being leaned over - it just felt wierd. Since I love riding fast on curvy roads - the tighter the curves the better, there was no way I was getting the 200.
You are really stoking my fire! And all your shots look great BTW.
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You are really stoking my fire! And all your shots look great BTW.
The Super 8 really is a blast to ride. I do wish it had more power, but I knew that would be the case when I bought it so I have not been disappointed. There are a lot of nice scooters out there but for the money, the Super 8 is hard to beat.
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Red - have you taken a look at the Yager? if I were taller, I would have given it more consideration for mostly around town with some riding at the speeds you are discussing. Chapparal Motorsports out in San Berdo has the whole line up there...
(it looks much better in person than in the photos)
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if you need to go 55 for more than a couple minutes super 8 will not suffice.
ihave one. love it but 55 is all out.
i would def look at the yeager 200 if i had to do it again.
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I have to agree with the Yager as well. For a single rider wanting to go 60 mph, the Yager is the minimum. 150s may be able to hit 60 but it would probably be a strain to keep it there for more than a couple of minutes.
I have a Yager and I'm a large guy at 250. My Yager will redline between 65 and 70 depending on headwind. 55-60 is easily achievable. I also rode with my wife on the back doing mid-50s easily, just lost a bunch of acceleration though.
The Yager is one of the few scoots below 200cc that is both liquid cooled and fuel injected. For the purpose of reliable transportation, I wouldn't buy something without injection, it's just too damn dependable.
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I just got a new 2010 Yager. I had a 250 GrandVista for a few years and wanted something more sporty. I sold it and got a Ninja 650r. The Ninja is just not as much fun to drive as a scooter. So I wanted something that didn't cost too much, as I am still paying off the ninja, but had enough power to move my wife and me around with no problem. I was also looking to get better MPG then my ninja at 45mpg. I was a little worried about the fact that the Yager was only a 175cc. I must tell you the little bike moves right along. The pick up is not as fast as my old GV was, but that said it goes. It will go faster then I want to go, I've been up over 65 mph on it. I really like it. The seat is not as nice as the gv, but it doesn't cost as much as the gv. I really like the Downtown 300i, and after the Ninja is payed off, I think thats the one I'll get. Any Questions let me know....
Jay
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I just got a new 2010 Yager. I had a 250 GrandVista for a few years and wanted something more sporty. I sold it and got a Ninja 650r.
For Ninja fun, you need Ninja 14 or 10. ;D
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The 650 is more then I'll ever need.... :o
Good Bikes....I guess just not my thing....
I do look good on it tho.....
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SYM HD200 for your purposes imo
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SYM HD200 for your purposes imo
I don't know if I would recommend a SYM right now until they get their distribution back in line. The way it's looking, with having two American distributors could be poison to dealers.
Don't get me wrong, SYM makes nice bikes, but if parts supply dries up or takes forever, that defeats the purpose of getting a commuting tool. That being said, if you don't mind hunting for parts you might get a great deal on an HD 200 right now.
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I like the SYM bike but it has been several months since the fire and nothing official has happened. I am not sure I would want to be saddled with this issue. It may work it way out but not today. I have scooter friends that are dealers and I hope it works out for them.
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I like the SYM bike but it has been several months since the fire and nothing official has happened. I am not sure I would want to be saddled with this issue. It may work it way out but not today. I have scooter friends that are dealers and I hope it works out for them.
Several? Almost a year (June, 2010)! Officially, Lance Powersports is the distributor for the Western U.S., but still no word on elsewhere... and it may not stop with two distributors. That can be both good and bad, actually.
Our shop can't even get new SYM models to sell right now in the prime of riding season, while Buddy 125s and 2T Stellas fly off the floor as soon as the truck drops them off. It's looking a lot like our shop may be a Genuine-only dealer pretty damned soon.
.
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Apparently Alliance Powersports (no website) is taking over the SYM distributorship. TeamSymba.com has announced it and Lance's Facebook page alludes to Alliance. Not sure what all this means but this is what I find today. Looks very recent. The domain for Alliance looks very new.
Late edit... Apparently MRP posted this content
Now, given my past with SYM and how I consider them to be pretty dam sneaky I don't think they are loyal to any party here. They want money from Carter, they want money from Lance. They want to move the units sitting in California. Heck, they wanted money from me and I said no way. If you have a track record like this who is going to trust you?
Alliance Powersports as the new SYM US West Region Distributor. That much we know. I wish Michael and his crew well, but they need to make up for all the messed up things that have happened.
Alliance is the sister company of Lance Powersports Inc
Fiddle 125 (blk, white, green, red)
Symba (blk, blue, red)
Following 1-2 weeks:
Citycom 300
Mio 50
Fiddle 50
Symply 50
HD200
The email I got ends with "SYM is one of the leading scooter manufactures worldwide and we are excited about this opportunity to represent SYM and offer you the best service and support." - If SYM gave a crap about the American dealer or consumer they would have stepped in and done what Kymco did and that's invest. Solved the mess, gotten consumers their warranties, and helped Carter out. I honestly feel from all the Carter employees I've spoken to it was SYM that let them down on more than one occasion having to justify every single warranty. You want to sell in America look at STR / Kymco how they merged. It made sense, it continues to make sense.
Lance / Alliance Powersports | 3788 Milliken Ave | Unit C | Mira Loma | CA | 91752
1-951-361-9000 x 111.
http://tinyurl.com/3b6nays (http://tinyurl.com/3b6nays)
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I am going to reply to my own post:
Given this information and the track record provided by SYM (and Carter)... I would be very hesitant to purchase and own a SYM scooter. They are excellent quality scooters... getting close to Kymco and Honda from a straight quality stand point. But SYM corporate does not appear to be supporting the US market very well.
Kymco USA had some issues during this financial recession. I am not sure to many talked about this but Kymco Taiwan purchased the remaining stock of Kymco USA and it continues to support the US market. Could it stand to improve it..yes, like most large, geographically dispersed companies using a distribution network of dealers.
We are seeing new models and apparently we are seeing lower MSRPs in what sounds like it will be a stronger scooter year. Sounds to me like Kymco is taking advantage of their Taiwanese competitors weaknesses. They are are also bringing in models that neither Vespa nor Honda can compete with.
I could be an interesting year. Kymco may have more "skin" in the game and be willing to take on more risk.