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Scooters - 125 to 300 => Xciting 250 => Topic started by: Golota on April 01, 2011, 12:23:17 PM

Title: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 01, 2011, 12:23:17 PM
Hi,


I have recently bought a 2005 Kmyco Xciting 250. This bike is supposed to be have max torque at 7500 rpm. However, my bike will not go above 6500 rpm abd my top speed is around 100 km/h. Just took my bike for maintenence and the mechanic said that the variator is factory standard. I don't know about any restrictor in this bike. My question is: is there something wrong with mine, or this bike is not supposed to go above 6500 rpm at all....

Other than this little puzzle, I really like this scooter. It is comfortable, relatively agile for its size and the suspension is pretty good too. It has just about everything that I was looking fo in a scooter and for touring I have a "proper" motorbike. However, if there is more potential in this scoot, I would like to unleash it....  ;)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Urbestfriend on April 01, 2011, 05:33:36 PM
Urbestfriend is not sure where you're located.  But I recall 100 km/hr. is close to
55 mph.   Not sure where this restrictor comes from,  but several have mentioned it.
Depending on the way the wind blows,  I can easily hit 70 mph.  However the RPM
really gets into the red,  usually somewhere around 8,000.  Like I say,  if the wind
is behind you it's lower.   If you are not in the US,  you'll have to double-check
if there is a possible restriction of some sort.

I have many miles in the Red with no resulting issues at 5,500 miles.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: TechGuy on April 01, 2011, 05:59:45 PM
I don't know the revs on my P250 but it easily reaches an 80-85 indicated speed.

They do not speed restrict the X250.  I wonder if the CDI was replaced with the incorrect one?
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 02, 2011, 07:10:25 AM
Thanks for the answers. Actually, 65 MPH is 104 km/h which is the speed I can reach. I'm not really worried about top speed, as I tour on my Triumph Tiger 1050 and only use the Kymco for commuting in town. However, the rpm limit is bothering me, as the bike's peak torque is supposed to be in the range that my bike can not reach. I will check the CDI.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 02, 2011, 12:29:24 PM
Your scoot has 1-2 hp less than my P250S with the same displacement, but it should still see 140+ km/h indicated, or around 130 km/h according to GPS, fully loaded on flat surface.
104 km/h is good, but for 125 CC/10 hp, not the scoot with twice the power and displacement.
Have that thing checked thoroughly.

I would avoid that mechanic who obviously did not find anything wrong with 250 cc 19 hp scoot doing 104 km/h.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: TechGuy on April 03, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
If your rollers are worn (or too light, IIRC) or your belt is stretched, you will have problems attaining maximum speed.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 04, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
If your rollers are worn (or too light, IIRC) or your belt is stretched, you will have problems attaining maximum speed.

Regarding the belt, I wonder how stretched it should be to have 40 km/h lower indicated top speed than expected.
However, it is possible that somebody has installed wrong belt or rollers or...
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 04, 2011, 10:16:55 AM
Thanks for the help guys. I checked the CDI. It is the originial device and was not tempered with.

Could this be a carburetor issue?

I'm beginning to wonder if the mechanic (a Kymco dealer by the way...) was all wrong about the rollers and the belt. He said they were standard parts, but I'm just not sure about that any more. If the carburetor is fine, I might go for new rollers, since they are inexpensive and I don't want to spend a fortune on troubleshooting.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 04, 2011, 10:22:09 AM
Thanks for the help guys. I checked the CDI. It is the originial device and was not tempered with.

Could this be a carburetor issue?

I'm beginning to wonder if the mechanic (a Kymco dealer by the way...) was all wrong about the rollers and the belt. He said they were standard parts, but I'm just not sure about that any more. If the carburetor is fine, I might go for new rollers, since they are inexpensive and I don't want to spend a fortune on troubleshooting.

If it runs fine all the way up to its top speed of 100-105 km/h, I seriously doubt the problem is with the carburetor.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 04, 2011, 10:25:44 AM
Actually, the rpm quickly reaches 5000. The scooter accelerates fine up to about 80 km/h. Then it takes a while to reach rpm 6500  - 100 km/h.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 04, 2011, 03:48:05 PM
If the rollers are worn and therefore lighter, I would think the motor should still reach redline and higher.  You just wouldn't get as high a top speed. 

If someone installed much heaver than stock rollers, I could see that impacting revs and power.  Ditto if the belt were worn VERY thin.  Seems that's all been looked at already, though. 

You don't perhaps have a much larger than stock rear tire, do you? 

Or hey, the most simple thing would be your brakes are dragging? 
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 04, 2011, 05:22:28 PM
Hoolander,


My rear tyre is stock. Brakes seem fine, as I have no problem pushing the bike to the garage. I will check them again though.

Someone mentioned similar issues with a People 250. He had a carb seal problem. I'm wondering if my bike has something similar.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 04, 2011, 05:32:04 PM
I will take it to a different mechanic though. I asked the dealer to look at the missing bolts on the fairing and put in new ones. They failed to do so. They did not even know what the standard roller weight should be, I had to look it up myself, so I'm not holding my breath about their "expertise".
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 04, 2011, 06:19:53 PM
Check the belt specs: width and length.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: TechGuy on April 04, 2011, 09:07:34 PM
The big question I have is you comment about standard parts.  Standard "generic" parts, Standard non-moto Gates belt or "Standard" Kymco OEM part?

I just looked and the X250 and my P250 have the same belt and rollers.

Below is a jpg of service guides data to see if the parts are correct.

This is what my new belt looked like
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TFZ8Q3xV1VI/AAAAAAAAH6g/H7IwELdb498/s720/IMG_5986.JPG)
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 04, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
Thank you. I will check the belt.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 06, 2011, 04:18:40 PM
Well, I have not had time to pull apart the housing, but I did experience something strange. I put the bike on centerstand and revved the engine up. With no load on the bike, the rpm went up to 6500 as it normally does. After a slight hesitation, the rpm suddenly went all the way up, well into the red zone. When I started riding again, it only went up to 6000. I guess it has to be a loose belt.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 07, 2011, 03:27:30 AM
I'm not sure that clinches it.  Still, you should have a look around in there.  If you need to take anything off you'll need a special tool or two.  Like a holder for the variator and clutch and a big breaker bar or impact wrench.   See these pictures of my 500 for an idea.  http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3814.0)
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 09, 2011, 09:48:18 AM
So I checked the belt. It is 24,1x995. This is the OEM standard, so the belt is OK. I also bought and installed new rollers 23x18 20g, which is also the OEM standard. The bike still won't go above 6500 rpm and top speed is still low. Also, the variator started clinking at idle, which I did not experience before. This happened when I installed the new rollers and I'm pretty sure I put everything back as it was supposed to.

I also found 3 plastic pins under the storage cover and I have no idea where they come from. I assume they are from the variator, but I thought the pin should be metal, not plastic...

Any ideas how I could proceed?
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 10, 2011, 03:26:17 AM
Plastic pins?  Do they look something like this? (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac134/Hepafilter_2010/SP2822-Q.png)
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 10, 2011, 07:24:41 AM
Sorry, I should have said needle and I suspect they are from the carburetor. Here they are

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_1A4LoayIp3g/TaFZlseDCQE/AAAAAAAAABE/Cjy2ZefxBsA/s160-c/Apr102011.jpg)

I checked the clinking noise. The drive face nut was probably not tightened enough. I need to go back to the tyre shop and ask them to tighten with the impact wrench.


Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 10, 2011, 03:31:04 PM
Hmm, yes those look like carb needles.  It's a vexing problem you've got there and I'm sorry I'm not experienced enought to help with carburators.  Still, it appears someone has tinkered with the carb so I'd shift my attention to the carb now. 

Are there any markings -- numbers or whatever, on those needles?  They'd be very small.  Might need to clean and use a magnifying glass to see them.  You should be able to find the specs for what should be in a stock carb and compare.  I also can't believe they would be plastic!
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 10, 2011, 03:45:20 PM
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

I checked the needles. One of them has a single letter "P", the other one has 'H" on one side and "180" on the other.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 11, 2011, 04:38:20 AM
Here's pictures of Xciting 250 pilot jet from my manual.  Neither of what you've got looks like this exactly so, I'd assume those are out of something else.  (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac134/Hepafilter_2010/Xciting250pilotscrewspringwasheroring.jpg)(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac134/Hepafilter_2010/SM-KymcoXciting250pilotscrewlocation.jpg) Sorry not much help on your problem.  Not that the pilot jet would have much to do with top end rpm anyway. 
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Shaka on April 11, 2011, 05:09:14 AM
Those look like plastic dart tips!  Doesn't look like any carb part I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 11, 2011, 09:37:59 AM
So I checked the belt. It is 24,1x995. This is the OEM standard, so the belt is OK. I also bought and installed new rollers 23x18 20g, which is also the OEM standard. The bike still won't go above 6500 rpm and top speed is still low. Also, the variator started clinking at idle, which I did not experience before. This happened when I installed the new rollers and I'm pretty sure I put everything back as it was supposed to.

I also found 3 plastic pins under the storage cover and I have no idea where they come from. I assume they are from the variator, but I thought the pin should be metal, not plastic...

Any ideas how I could proceed?

If you are sure the variator is OK, I would check that CDI is OK and it does not cut off at higher revs.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 11, 2011, 11:07:25 AM
The CDI seems OK, it is the original piece and has not been tampered with. When on centerstand, the rpm reaches 8500 and the CDI doesn't cut off, so I guess it should be OK. Maybe I will check the clutch spring and see if it has been weakened. I'm new to scooters so I can only guess.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 11, 2011, 11:59:05 AM
The CDI seems OK, it is the original piece and has not been tampered with. When on centerstand, the rpm reaches 8500 and the CDI doesn't cut off, so I guess it should be OK. Maybe I will check the clutch spring and see if it has been weakened. I'm new to scooters so I can only guess.

Check not only main spring but also small springs in the clutch. Furthermore, there are many parts in the transmission that have to be up to specs to work properly and most of them are never mentioned on this forum because people sell away scoots before they are due to be changed. Take a service manual and look for those specs (inside/outside diameter of various things, length of various parts, weight etc.) Check them all.

The easiest way to achieve what you describe (low top speed) would be using the wrong length belt, but you said that length is OEM.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 13, 2011, 05:56:15 PM
New day, new issues  :(

Went to the garage today and tried to start the scooter. The phone charging icon comes on the screen. I push the starter switch, the relay clicks, but nothing happens. The starter motor is silent. I checked the battery, it is in tip-top shape (no wonder, installed a brand new one a few weeks ago). All the control lights come up, when I turn on the ignition, but nothing happens.


- The kill switch is off (tried swithing on and off a few times)
- The lcd panel is blind, only the control lights operate (why the phone icon is on, I have no idea)
- When I switch on and off the lights (ignition on), the speedo and rpm comes on and off, but still nothing.
- Changed all the fuses, still nothing

If the starter motor died, the lcd display would still operate, so I have no idea what the hell has gone wrong this time.

I'm starting to regret buying this bike. :(
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 14, 2011, 08:52:38 AM
New day, new issues  :(

Went to the garage today and tried to start the scooter. The phone charging icon comes on the screen. I push the starter switch, the relay clicks, but nothing happens. The starter motor is silent. I checked the battery, it is in tip-top shape (no wonder, installed a brand new one a few weeks ago). All the control lights come up, when I turn on the ignition, but nothing happens.


- The kill switch is off (tried swithing on and off a few times)
- The lcd panel is blind, only the control lights operate (why the phone icon is on, I have no idea)
- When I switch on and off the lights (ignition on), the speedo and rpm comes on and off, but still nothing.
- Changed all the fuses, still nothing

If the starter motor died, the lcd display would still operate, so I have no idea what the hell has gone wrong this time.

I'm starting to regret buying this bike. :(


You definitely have a short circuit somewhere, and if that is the case, it might be the cause of your issues with achieving high revs too, even though CDI is operating properly, it might not at high revs.

(btw. I do not think that this sentence makes sense - "if the starter motor died, the LCD display would still operate").

My P250S shows some signs of bad wiring too. From day one, after rain or washing, the oil pressure LED slightly flickers, obviously, the insulation around sensor is not exactly perfect. I was driving it from the shop to my home on day one and noticed that.
Furthermore, during winter, for the first minute after starting, engine overheat LED will be on and then it will turn off. Furthermore, when I push "passing" light (long beam) and if the gasoline gauge is below 1/3, the "reserve" gasoline LED will go on.

Unfortunately, I cannot stress enough after reading everything on this forum that Kymcos seem to be generally of sh**ty quality.

If I were you, I would first tear apart all tupperware, from front to rear (it takes maybe an hour the first time).
Then I would push the ignition key to on and move by hand one by one cable/harness until I identify where is the short circuit.

This is one of those things that are hard to troubleshoot, take a lot of time and nerves, but costs nothing to fix.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 14, 2011, 04:41:44 PM
Thanks Axy. I will try. God, I hate fiddling with cables. :(
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on April 15, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
Agree with all Axy said.  Did you clean your battery connections when you changed the battery?  I would look at those plus the frame ground plus the starter and relay connections first.

This is a remote possibility but, if some small metalic object like a strand of wire fell into the phone charging socket that could possibly do harm. 
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 15, 2011, 05:12:48 PM
OK guys, I'm on track.

Issues found so far:

- Both small tubes were off the air filter house
- Partially damaged oil pressure sensor wire
- Torn wire around the cylinder (I have no clue what that is, posted image)


(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_1A4LoayIp3g/Tah7QkB_pJE/AAAAAAAAABs/K1ffBIa7h8k/s160-c/Apr152011.jpg)

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uj1OnNr_hEmlM-6WrgwCGzZxDMuPw5AA-Pyip-yylHo?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_1A4LoayIp3g/Tah7XevgSAI/AAAAAAAAABs/jN4tTSefdFU/s800/Issue.jpg

Do you know what that wire is?

I guess someone tried to "fix something" on the bike and did not care about properly fixing the cables, so they were tense and eventually got loose, or torn.

Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 15, 2011, 05:39:29 PM
The big pic link is screwed, fix it... I've loaded the pic by copy/paste of the link.

I've spent 15 minutes looking for this wire. You owe me a mineral water (don't drink beer!) :) when you come to Croatia.

It's "heater carburetion wire coupler."

On the other side of there are "throttle position sensor wire" and "auto bystarter wire".
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on April 15, 2011, 07:16:37 PM
Axy,

Thanks a lot man. I live "next door" in Hungary. I owe you one.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: axy on April 15, 2011, 08:08:56 PM
Axy,

Thanks a lot man. I live "next door" in Hungary. I owe you one.

For unknown reason, I was placing you somewhere in USA. :) :) :)
I hope you will nail this one and fix it. Neighbor. :) When you decide to switch Balaton vacations for some Adriatic sea summer relax, we can toast with a nice bowl of betyár gulyás:)
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Golota on June 10, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Hi,


Just want to follow up on what happened to my scooter. I ordered a new Dr Pulley variator set, but it did not cure the problem. I also checked the wiring and the electric components, but no change there either.

I took the scooter to a local mechanic, who specializes is scooters, as the Kymco dealer was clueless. It took him half a day to figure out what's wrong with my bike. He checked the drive train, adjusted the valve clearence and engine timing. Then he took a look at the spark plug... It was all white. He disassembled the carburetor and immediately noticed that the stock main jet was replaced. The part installed was probably from a small scooter with a part nr "KY B6". He replaced it with a standard piece.

Why the previous owner did something like that is beyond me. I bought the scoot from a dealer, so I can't talk to the guy.

My scooter works fine now. With the Dr Pulley set up it really flies and no longer feels like an underpowered 150cc bike. I'm all happy now :)

I hope it may help some people who have problem with their scooter. I was told that the GY6 engine is bullet proof, but very sensitive to fuelling.

Thanks for all the help and info. I have a much better understanding of scooters now.
Title: Re: Max rpm for the 250
Post by: Hoolander2 on June 10, 2011, 04:21:18 PM
Wow, that's incredible.  So happy your new mechanic got to the heart of the problem.  :)