KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Syl on March 12, 2011, 02:51:20 PM
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Am only repeating what I heard during a phone conversation when I was looking to purchase a Peoples S250 trading in my Peoples S200. First of all I phones quite a few places and no Peoples S250's, year 2011 were available. There were some 2010 year's available but I didn't want anything but the 2011. Anyway, in asking when they (2011's) will start coming in and this particular large place in the South stated, "we are not getting in any Peoples S250's, 2011 being they are not going to ship these out readily anymore. Hmmm, that was enough to make me question this and decide to look at something else. I went to a dealer with my sight on a Vista but there just was not enough room between the handle bars and the seat, this left that one out. The dealer than stated we just got in a 2011 Downtown 300i and haven't had time to place it on the sales floor yet. We went downstairs to the storage and assembly area and there is sat.... a silver DT 300i waiting for me to sit on it! My wife and I immediately really liked the looks and feel of this and we were sold very quickly! I guess this also give's the dealer initiative to get more of these in. Am going out to my garage today to visit with it!!
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Here's a shocking secret: A 2010 People S 250 is no different from a 2011 People S 250.
In the scooter market, it's rare for anything at all to change from model year to model year for the same model scooter. Our shop is still getting lots of 2009 inventory -- brand new, never ridden, full warranties. No one seems to mind.
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Yes, I was told that there was no difference but one thing still bothered me. I purchased a 2009 S200 in 2010 and all of a sudden it was 2011 and my scooter was old real quick and everyone know's that this difference in year's makes a trade in price much different very quickly. Yes I made a mistake purchasing the S200 for 2 reason's. One no different I was talked into and Two, I thought it was a 200cc which was my very big mistake. When I purchased the DT it had to be 2011 and had to be 300cc which of course is about 298 or so. I guess I looked at all this the same as if I was purchasing an automobile where there wasn't much change from year to the next but if you trade it in!
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Resale value doesn't account for the reality, I know. That's why I've never let that be a factor -- I've planned to ride everything I've bought until that didn't matter.
The S 200 -- yeah, a little Internet time would have shown you the actual displacement. All the 200s out there are sub-200cc. Almost all of the scooters are a little under what the "badged" displacement would lead you to believe, but none so far off as ALL of the "200s" that everyone markets.
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Resale value doesn't account for the reality, I know. That's why I've never let that be a factor -- I've planned to ride everything I've bought until that didn't matter.
The S 200 -- yeah, a little Internet time would have shown you the actual displacement. All the 200s out there are sub-200cc. Almost all of the scooters are a little under what the "badged" displacement would lead you to believe, but none so far off as ALL of the "200s" that everyone markets.
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I am afraid this "cc lie" is not widespread. Italian manufacturers do not lie - 200 is very close to 200, 250 is very close to 250, 300 to 300 etc.
Italians had 150 and 180 cc scoots and they did not call them "200" like Kymco. It was Aprilia Leonardo 150 or Gilera Runner 180.
This is Kymco's "invention"...
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Kymco's invention...
Sym HD 200 is 171CC and back in the day a Honda 350 was I believe 324...
324 is very close to 350 (8 % difference).
When you declare 150 cc scoot as 250, you are lying for 34 %.
This pratice is obviously widespread in Taiwanese companies, and not others, and especially when you declare GY6 150 cc engine as being 200 cc.
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What ever....
Your contribution to this discussion shows a great deal of life experience and adds a real value.
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I am afraid this "cc lie" is not widespread. Italian manufacturers do not lie - 200 is very close to 200, 250 is very close to 250, 300 to 300 etc.
Italians had 150 and 180 cc scoots and they did not call them "200" like Kymco. It was Aprilia Leonardo 150 or Gilera Runner 180.
This is Kymco's "invention"...
No... the Italians never pump their numbers. They would never sell a 278 cc engine as a 300... would they?
Wait... off the VespaUSA website for the "Super 300"... a 278 cc SUPER sized engine.
GTS300 Super
Specifications
MSRP
$6199
ENGINE TYPE
Single cylinder four-stroke four-valve
CYLINDER CAPACITY
278 cc
BORE x STROKE
75 mm x 63 mm
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Anyone who doesn't check the cc of the bike they buy is not doing their homework. 'Lie' or not, obviously it is working for kymco but it seems like a person who buys a bike that is badged as a '200' but finds out it is only a '163' will not have the best feeling about buying from that company again. Also, the dealer should be explicit about the matter if he (she) wants to get the repeat business. Their job is to help you find the right bike, not just sell as many as possible.
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No... the Italians never pump their numbers. They would never sell a 278 cc engine as a 300... would they?
Wait... off the VespaUSA website for the "Super 300"... a 278 cc SUPER sized engine.
GTS300 Super
Specifications
MSRP
$6199
ENGINE TYPE
Single cylinder four-stroke four-valve
CYLINDER CAPACITY
278 cc
BORE x STROKE
75 mm x 63 mm
I see that thinking in RELATIVE versus ABSOLUTE terms is a real challenge for some people.
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I know this discussion for many years esp. from automobiles.
The number-displacement relationship has broken long ago.
The displacement may be lower or higher (!) than indicated by the historical interpretation of the number.
Anyone surprised, that a BMW F650 GS motocycle has in fact 798cc!? ::)
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gone fishing...
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Axy,
Sorry, I don't normally see your posts as challenging. In your post, you declare it a Kymco invention and cite a *5 difference. Vespa's are just as "optimistic" and SYM does similar.
You cannot play both sides of the same subject. You were absolutely critical over the "relative" difference. All manufacturers do this.
Let's just move on.
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I disagree completely, but am willing to drop the subject, it is not that interesting to me.
Most 2-wheel vehicle manufacturers declare correct (or slightly rounded) values.
For some reason, Kymco, SYM and some other like to present their 150 cc scoots as 200 and have been doing so for a long time.
Until 2-3 years ago, Italians DID NOT declare those models wrongly but instead, they were declared as 125, 150, 180, 200 cc. This is something Kymco never did. Hondas had 100 declared 100 cc models, so did Peugeot etc.
Obviously, in order to prevent Kymco selling more of its 150 units as 200 (Italian 200s - Beverly, Aprilia - are REAL 200!) due to fraudulent declaration, they started lying too. That`s the nature of the game.
Try to find ANY wrong declaration of displacement on Italian scoots prior to 2007-8 (other than rounding - 193 being rounded as 200; 493 being rounded as 500 etc.) You will not find any.
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For some reason, Kymco, SYM and some other like to present their 150 cc scoots as 200
Kymco.it or kymcousa.com or kymco.tw or ... : "150" (>=150cc allowed for Italian autostrada etc.) have bore/stroke 57.4/57.8 mm.
Perhaps the labelling (=advertisement, but label <> oath) is done by the local importer too and not always by Kymco itself!?
BTW: the former Piaggio Master 500 had 460cc, only the new one has 493cc.
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Kymco.it or kymcousa.com or kymco.tw or ... : "150" (>=150cc allowed for Italian autostrada etc.) have bore/stroke 57.4/57.8 mm.
Perhaps the labelling (=advertisement, but label <> oath) is done by the local importer too and not always by Kymco itself!?
BTW: the former Piaggio Master 500 had 460cc, only the new one has 493cc.
I think that People 200, for example, is People 200 all over the world.
I have never heard of Kymco model <X> being advertised ad 150 in one place and 200 in another.
I do not care much about this topic because, just as you would do, I check specs of the thing I am about to buy, so I do not care if they call 50 cc scooter HyperJet 500.
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I am afraid this "cc lie" isn't widespread. Italian makers don't lie two hundred is extremely near two hundred, 250 is extremely near 250, three hundred etc.
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I'd like to get some little numbers and change the 200 on my yager to 175!