KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: CONLEY on February 25, 2011, 01:20:31 PM
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we just shotup to 3.34 a gal cant wait till my scoot is done
what are your prices at around you
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3.28 but its jumping up every day. scooters just got a lot cooler!!! at the gas pump. i hear its going up to 5.... ouch
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1.76 US$/1 l
Average statistical net salary where I live, 972 US$ for Jan/2011.
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I saw 3.22 this morning as I was pulling out in my cage onto snow/ice packed roads.
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yeah its def going to be at min high 4 dollar range
god im glad i got a scoot
i bet the price of scoots will go up to they will be in demand
maybe the goverment will try to outlaw them or some stupid sh** to make it harder for us but we shall see
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$3.85 here in San Francisco area
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Sitting at 3.34+ around here so far.... Went from 2.94 THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAM SKIPPY, it's going to continue to climb.... Socialism is apon us my brothers.... NO Axy, I wouldn't rather live in that type of society... I kindof got used to the few freedoms we have left, but thety are coming to take it all......
Even the scoot laws are being challenged again....(even though the liberals are weeding out the 2t's cuz they pollute to much???????? :o ::) >:()
Wasnt trying to start another polictical argument since ALOT of progressive liberals are on this forum
All the "eco-hippies" around here always give me the "thumbs up" sign when i blow past em on either scoot... :D...they do look good.. :D(the scoots)
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$3.30 here in So. FL. I opt to pay a bit more for ethanol free for the scoot.
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The Curious can always click the banner below to find out what the near-cheapest pice for 87 octane is in Nashville. I routinely fuel up at two of the cheaper places in town.
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Sitting at 3.34+ around here so far.... Went from 2.94 THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAM SKIPPY, it's going to continue to climb.... Socialism is apon us my brothers....
So, the gas price went up 10 % and your conclusion is that socialism is coming?
I think you are losing it.
p.s. Free forming of prices is the first postulate of free market. So, enjoy it.
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So, the gas price went up 10 % and your conclusion is that socialism is coming?
I think you are losing it.
We have some very deep thinkers in the U.S. conservative movement. Many of them learn a lot from a 5-hour/week course taught on television from a Prof. Glenn Beck.
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Pais $3.14 a gallon this morning. I,m sure glad I will be on a scoot all summer!
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We have some very deep thinkers in the U.S. conservative movement. Many of them learn a lot from a 5-hour/week course taught on television from a Prof. Glenn Beck.
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You naughty boy. :)
Btw. we have a guy here that is trying to copy tea party/libertarian/conservative USA idea directly to our society.
Of course, it does not work because small European country is not USA and its political and socio-economic roots are completely different. We do not have the tradition of "founding fathers", even though the nation itself is not 300-400 years old like American but 1000+ years.
Last weekend their rally ended up with riot police and clashes when football fans joined the march (!!!) and started throwing bricks and things towards the police that responded with tear gas and force.
Prosvjedi u Zagrebu 26. 02. 2011. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMXLZ6p-G4#ws)
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Filled up with 348 today. which is not to bad yet but we are the lucky ones people look at when you pull out from the gas station at less the 8 to fill a tank and they have tp pay 40 to 80 to fill theres so funny.lol
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Filled the kwaka yesterday @ $1.53.9 per litre.
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about $3.70 a gallon where i am in South Cali. almost $4 a gallon for the premium i use in my scoot
i laugh at high gas prices, however 8)
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I dont laugh at high fuel prices, my car has an 80 litre tank. Still like driving it though.
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We have some very deep thinkers in the U.S. conservative movement. Many of them learn a lot from a 5-hour/week course taught on television from a Prof. Glenn Beck.
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More like 8-12 hrs a day... NOt only beck of course, he cries to much..Sorry but not every person likes the gov up in every fkn thing they do like some ppl do.. I'm sure you're very happy with it all
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So, the gas price went up 10 % and your conclusion is that socialism is coming?
I think you are losing it.
p.s. Free forming of prices is the first postulate of free market. So, enjoy it.
this coming from a man that thinks giving over 70% of his pay to the government in taxes is a good thing... And btw, yes socialism is approching the u.s at an alarming rate. you have lived ibn it all your life, so you have no idea what it means to live free...(not that we are "free") before you go on your tirade
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this coming from a man that thinks giving over 70% of his pay to the government in taxes is a good thing...
Totally clueless.
What's your effective tax rate, bat? Go look it up from last year's return. Are you paying less than the richest bastards on Wall Street, who get taxed at a flat 15%? I bet not.
Have your taxes gone up or down under Obama?
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JP...this site is about scooters...not politics.....Please refrain from it as it takes away from the pureness of the scooter conversation...If you wish to discuss your frustration with POLICY ...Discuss it on a proper website.... Your personal beliefs/frustrations DONT BELONG HERE!!!!
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JP...this site is about scooters...not politics.....Please refrain from it as it takes away from the pureness of the scooter conversation...If you wish to discuss your frustration with POLICY ...Discuss it on a proper website.... Your personal beliefs/frustrations DONT BELONG HERE!!!!
If you'll notice, this thread is in GENERAL DISCUSSION which is ok, not in the tech section.. this isn't the 1st time ppl have talked about other things either.... maybe you just need to search a tad more...
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Totally clueless.
What's your effective tax rate, bat? Go look it up from last year's return. Are you paying less than the richest bastards on Wall Street, who get taxed at a flat 15%? I bet not.
Have your taxes gone up or down under Obama?
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I believe i only lose around 34% in taxes, compared to axy's 70+%.. I get to bring home $ for now, not work all week for $5...lol.... NO, i used to be clueless, i was very clueless at one point.. I'm sorry to doubt you but NOTHING AT ALL HAS WENT DOWN WITH OBAMA... NOWHERE.. maybe herman will run next year... Keep your fingers crossed..
Ahhh, the rich bastards dont even pay that much in taxes... yeah, im sure we pay more then them.. because the middle class makes up more ppl than wall street.... Always remember..."liberalism is a mental disorder"..
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This thread is about gas prices...not politcal noise....Start a thread about a politcal subject..I can choose not to open it...
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I believe i only lose around 34% in taxes
No need to believe -- go look at last year's tax return. If you e-filed or had an accountant do it, on the last page of the prepared return (or sometimes on the first page summary), there will be a line, "effective tax rate."
If your marginal tax rate was 34%, your effective tax rate was lower than that, because you are taxed at lower rates on the first percentages of your income (for instance, you pay zero for the personal exemption and deductions up to a certain amount).
I had to explain this to my scooter shop-owner friend who, although not rich, has someone else prepare his taxes. He too was convinced he was paying far more than he actually was. U.S. income tax rates on individuals have not been this low in five decades.
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olbull, I know that some would prefer that only one side of a story get discussed. That's not how I roll. I didn't start the political talk here, but once it starts, I'm in it until the end. If that troubles you, I am sorry -- I'd recommend a PM to the person who starts the political talk, asking them not to in the future, as there's a guy who will not just sit down and shut up when it does come up.
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I believe i only lose around 34% in taxes, compared to axy's 70+%.. I get to bring home $ for now, not work all week for $5...lol.... NO, i used to be clueless, i was very clueless at one point.. I'm sorry to doubt you but NOTHING AT ALL HAS WENT DOWN WITH OBAMA... NOWHERE.. maybe herman will run next year... Keep your fingers crossed..
Ahhh, the rich bastards dont even pay that much in taxes... yeah, im sure we pay more then them.. because the middle class makes up more ppl than wall street.... Always remember..."liberalism is a mental disorder"..
Batman, so you are Jimmy McMillan supporter?
Why didn`t you say so! ;D
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Anyway, gas here is 3.55 gallon, U.S. $
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I can still get regular for $3.29 / Gal in Georgia (the state not the country)
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It is good to have a scoot when the prices are high!!! I think we'll see 5USD/gal this summer.
The worst part of that is, the oil companies say they cannot help lower prices while pulling down tens of BILLIONS of dollars in PROFIT (not revenue). Combine that with you have more change in your couch seats than Exxon/Mobile paid in corporate taxes - And the oil companies get subsidies in the US and preferential treatment in mineral rights.
They are crooks. Meanwhile, certain 'news' channels keep us distracted by squabbling over liliputian differences between ourselves, rather than focusing our ire at the people that are taking us to the cleaners.
Ride your scoot, give the scumbags less money, I say! Last time oil was up the US cut consumption by 7%. After that they dropped oil from $150+ to $35 a barrel. I think we'll see a lot more scoots on the road this summer. ;D
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Something to ponder. http://jalopnik.com/# (http://jalopnik.com/#)!5043482/ethanol-in-gasoline-reportedly-wreaking-havoc-on-small-engines Just how many engine's does this cover?
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http://jalopnik.com/# (http://jalopnik.com/#)!5043482/ethanol-in-gasoline-reportedly-wreaking-havoc-on-small-engines Don't know if that first one went.
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Sorry about this paste. copy this entire line and paste
http://jalopnik.com/# (http://jalopnik.com/#)!5043482/ethanol-in-gasoline-reportedly-wreaking-havoc-on-small-engines
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For some reason it is only linking the first part of the URL so it takes you to the home page if you click on it. I just copied the whole thing and pasted and it worked no problem. That is an interesting article. Your are starting to make me paranoid about filling up my scooter. But I guess if no one else has had issues with it on scooters then I should be ok.
Looks like you just posted what I said before I was able to post. lol
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I was trying to search for Gasoline without Ethanol and I am just reporting what I found even though this was posted on a Oil and Gas Forum in 2008.
From an individual in Reading, PA, he stated his local Gulf Station had Ethanol free gas. Again, I repeat, 2008 and it could have changed through the years but I will go out and check tomorrow. I know of but one Gulf Station in this area and has been hanging in there. Hope this is true.
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Aren't the Kymco's built in Thailand, China?
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Ethanol is horrid stuff. Bad in a small engine, but it is a REAL PITA in a boat. If you don't use some sort of stabilizer, it gets bad quick.
Besides that, we derive our ethanol from corn (read as: FOOD). Most other places make it from sugar cane or sawgrass. There are enough starving people in the world that would better benefit from the food, rather than using it to ruin our engines. Or it could be used to make booze. My insides are rated for high ethanol content. HA!
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In California, gasoline/petrol only comes in "oxygenated" versions... E10, E15 or E85... your choice. This includes the boat docks.
The "E" is ethanol and the number is the percentage of ethanol. We also have "summer" and "winter" blend gas.
We also get to pay anywhere from $3.80 to $4.20 per gallon... today.
But, I am not going to discuss this relative to other countries. The fuel cost and taxes are different than in the US and having a meaningful discuss rarely happens.
http://tinyurl.com/4g82kce (http://tinyurl.com/4g82kce)
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damn what did i start here i just wanted to say gas prices suck didnt mean to start a political war lol my bad. we just jumped into the 3.60 range in md
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damn what did i start here i just wanted to say gas prices suck didnt mean to start a political war lol my bad. we just jumped into the 3.60 range in md
You didn't. We just had one poor confused soul who doesn't know capitalism from socialism, literally.
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i dont really care for your comments every time i read one of your replies its negitive and you bring down the moral of this forum please DO NOT reply to any of my post.
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Kymco is the largest scooter manufacturer In Taiwan. They started in 1963 as a joint venture with Honda to build parts for Honda and branched off years later to build their own scooters.
The majority of their scooters are built in Taiwan. They do make some of them in their Chinese factory. But their quality and reputation is right there with the Japanese manufacturers.
My People 150 was made in Taiwan.
The Agility 125 I believe is made in the China plant. someone correct me if I am wrong.
1. HQ and one factory is in Taiwan. Other factories are in Jakarta (Indonesia) and three factories are in China (Shanhai, Changsha, Chengdu). So, it is not correct that majority is made in Taiwan, majority is made outside of Taiwan, namely, China.
2. The reputation (hype) may be high, but the overall quality of build is poor. I've owned and own several Kymcos and had big problems with those made in Taiwan and in China.
3. It is completely irrelevant where the scoots are made, in China, Taiwan, USA or Greenland, because manufacturing standards and procedures inside the same group (company) are the same, so are used parts and quality control practices.
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GuÄng Yáng GÅng Yè) is a Taiwanese company that manufactures motor scooters, motorcycles, and ATVs for distribution throughout the world. Founded in 1963, the company was originally aimed at making parts for Honda. The company built its first complete scooter in 1970 and began marketing under the "KYMCO" brand name in 1992. With time, Kymco has come to be the largest scooter manufacturer in Taiwan, and the 5th largest scooter and manufacturer worldwide.[1] KYMCO's headquarters and factory are located in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, having roughly 3000 employees, and producing more than 570,000 vehicles per year, thats one every 55 seconds. The company has overseas production factories in Jakarta, Shanghai, Changsha and Chengdu. In early 2008, KYMCO was chosen by German manufacturer BMW to provide them with the engines for their G450 X enduro bike.
I am a retired manufacturing manager after 45 years in the business...but what do I know..
Ya ll have a good one..I'm out of here
So, you are quoting Wikipedia to confirm what I said (1 factory in Taiwan, 1 in Indonesia, 3 in China)?
And getting angry because of that? :)
The fact that you are manufacturing manager has nothing to do with this discussion or anything else, for that matter.
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They are "pretty good quality". "Pretty good" includes a lot of things and issues people are experiencing with them, including rust and manufacturing defects. "Pretty good" is also highly subjective and can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For example, yours truly is driving his scooters 365 days in a year. His definition of what "pretty good" is is different than definition of somebody who is keeping his scooter in a garage and drives it five times per year between April and September.
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gone fishing
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They are "pretty good quality". "Pretty good" includes a lot of things and issues people are experiencing with them, including rust and manufacturing defects. "Pretty good" is also highly subjective and can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For example, yours truly is driving his scooters 365 days in a year. His definition of what "pretty good" is is different than definition of somebody who is keeping his scooter in a garage and drives it five times per year between April and September.
That said, axy... what's your next choice in a scooter?
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That said, axy... what's your next choice in a scooter?
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Good question. I said why I drive Kymcos - importer is a friend of mine so I get somewhat better prices.
I am afraid that scooter industry is the gutter of vehicle industry and they seem to be (Taiwanese+Europeans+some "better quality " Chinese) pretty much equal (equally bad in my eyes). It is just that some are worse in one area (Italians/electricity...) and the others in another area.
I do not like the idea of scooter >250 cc and I do not like the fact that they are close in price to "real" motorcycles.
Furthermore, I bought two scoots, two quads and a car (all new) in slightly more than a year, so I think that for the time being, I do not plan to buy next scoot, or vehicle.
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Having retired from manufacturing management where I was responsible for all aspects of quality and having to answer for manufacturing defects and put plans into place to prevent them, I would say I am some what qualified to judge quality...
It is not good to "pull rank" or profession in online discussion.
Let`s rather go back to the facts.
1. Here is my small online journal about my P250S: http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.0)
2. Here you can see casting deformities on engine casing of my P250S, replaced completely around 7500 kms: http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.msg7479#msg7479 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.msg7479#msg7479)
3. Here you can see one year old P250S and A125, and rust on them; I live in California like climate, no salt or snow, scoots regularly washed at least every 14 days: http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.msg10922#msg10922 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.msg10922#msg10922)
What does your professional QA/QC side say about these things?
One more thing. If you were such a professional, you would not try to pull the argument that USA receives high-quality vehicles while the rest of the world receives some duds or junk of lower quality. If you were into quality of manufacturing, you should know what that would do to the reputation of the factory. Honestly, I am a bit surprised that you think that Kymco has two separate assembly lines, one for USA and one for Uganda, along with tho sets of dealers for similar looking parts but having high and low quality, along with two sets of workers, supporting contracts etc.
Your notion about Kymco scooters being "high up there" in quality is purely subjective. You cannot back it up with any data, or objective research. In Europe we usually use for that purpose reports of German ADAC (similar to American Auto Club) that carry high levels of statistic significance. Statistically insignificant and subjective experience of most online/forum users shows that many have grave issues with their Kymcos. I have seen here quite a number of dead mechanical parts on Kymcos including engines at 2-3.000 kms due to factory assembly issues and part manufacturing failures that I did not see on other forums.
This forum is not different than other scoot forums and certainly does not reflect alleged "high quality" of Kymco brand.
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Opinions vary...
blowing my candle out will not make yours brighter..
does this make you feel all better...
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/dlstewart01/bow_down_before_you-960.gif)
We will just have to agree to disagree, as I have bigger fish to fry.
have a good rest of the day..
The thing is that I like to deal with experiences and facts, not opinions. Opinion can be just end result, based on facts.
English is my 4th language, but I believe there is quite picturesque proverb about opinions in English language. :)
NHF
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We need to move on. You have had a condescending attitude toward me since I came to this forum. You have dismissed some of my post as having no relevance what so ever. I first decided to delete my account here and just move on, for life is too short to put up with BS. But then I decided to stay awhile and challenge you a bit.
You have stretched several facts very thin in your debates. You can't have it both ways. This is supposed to be a forum for people who have and enjoy Kymco products. You have a negative attitude about Kymco. I wounder why you own one.
And in closing, I received some personal messages thanking me for challenging the know it all. I wonder who they could be speaking of???
I am done with this
nexnut
1. For a senior citizen and ex. soldier you are too sensitive. I guess that you do not like people around you to voice their opinion if it is different than yours. That is sad, even more sad than people you teamed up with to send PM to the admin against me.
2. Many your messages did not have any relevance, and some are downright dangerous AND STUPID. For example, on scooter forum you said that it is not important to wear helmet because you never wore it, including the war. That is quite dangerous message for new members. Be insulted by this as much as you want.
3. This is forum for Kymco owners.
4. I own two Kymcos, not one, owned some other before and explained why I own(ed) them.
5. I do not have negative attitude towards Kymco, but you are unable to grasp the fact that all scoots are of substandard quality compared to motorcycles or cars.
6. I have posted several links with pics of my rusty two scoots after one year, with my defective engine casing that had to be replaced after 7000 kms and you did not comment on that at all, just kept repeating in a loop about your personal ideas, feelings and how you were working in quality.
7. In 1969 you were in Vietnam. Not "vietnan".
8. Hi to your friends.
Sad, sad, sad.
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Thanks for the "stupid" remark, The only stupid thing I have done lately is waste my time on this forum listening to your BS...
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Gas prices: last week, the government has changed the formula for calculation of market gasoline price here, so despite price raise, they lowered the tax (excise) they receive as revenue from gasoline price, so the rise in price was not as high as it could be otherwise. However, depending on the situation in Japan, Libya and demand/output ratio, any scenario is quite possible. Also, it was clearly announced that this was the last intervention in gasoline price from the government to "ease" current situation and possible price inflation.
In the long run, we can only expect higher and higher prices as demand in growing parts of the world rises (India, China).
However, we can expect also much worse things than gasoline price rise if the "big empires" of the Cold war continue to exert dominance and protect just their interest and do not recognize the growing political influence of new multi-polar world (BRIC countries).
One much more concerning thing is rise in food prices. On the average, food price went up more than 30 % in the past year, half of this in the past three months. Our inflation is almost the same as in USA, so it does not account for this rise.
Also, considering that we are on a scoot forum, I have to say that scoots are not incredibly gas saving. For example, average 250 cc scoot consumes 4-4,5 l of gasoline/100 km; average 500 cc will consume anywhere from 4.5-6 l/100 km. Even though I hate diesel cars, many (even mid-range) turbo diesel cars will consume 4.5-6 l/100 km of diesel fuel, even in urban cycle, that is also slightly cheaper. Maintenance of scoots is much more expensive than maintenance of cars as mileage rises (try to drive the same scoot for 100.000 kms and calculate all costs) and they have frequent service intervals.
Calculation car vs. bike depends on many variables. I think scoots are indispensable for inner rings of urban areas. However, if you come from far away (if you commute 50-80 kms in each direction daily) it may be too much, exhausting, high mileage for a scoot etc. In fact, it is not "or" issue, it is "and" issue: in most cases both car and a scoot are needed.
Of course, scoots are much better for lane splitting, there is no associated parking costs etc. I am just point to both sides - it is not just fuel consumption that counts.
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Axy...you mentioned the word parking in your post. This leads me to a question about scooter parking. I presume we have to use a full parking spot with meter feeding, am I correct? Is probably a dumb question but somewhere in a post I noted someone saying they acquired a parking ticket. I guess I want to be able to park without getting towed!!
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Axy...you mentioned the word parking in your post. This leads me to a question about scooter parking. I presume we have to use a full parking spot with meter feeding, am I correct? Is probably a dumb question but somewhere in a post I noted someone saying they acquired a parking ticket. I guess I want to be able to park without getting towed!!
We use here parking places that are paid for either by coin operated parking meter or using text message from your phone.
If you park your vehicle in a parking space that has to be paid for - it does not matter is it a scoot or car. :)
However, I have never seen a scoot parked in parking place that has to be paid for. :) They are usually parked just... anywhere. :)
And yes, sometimes the police, at least here, does the raids and they place parking tickets to scoots because people park them in the main town squares and in pedestrian-only zones. However, that is not that much of an issue, it is largely tolerated.
However, I have seen in Italy specialized tow-trucks for motorcycles that are parked where they should not be.
I have no idea what is the proliferation of scoots/bikes downtown in American cities and what is police tolerance of them.
Generally, here scoots are well tolerated if parked where they should not be, unless they obstruct passage or traffic, obviously.
My town is closest to Italy so the traffic pattern and street structure somewhat resembles Italian - we have some scoot-designated areas in the very center.
Take a look at http://novine.novilist.hr/images/clanci/2006/7/205013.jpg (http://novine.novilist.hr/images/clanci/2006/7/205013.jpg) . It`s one of them.
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I drive every 125cc scoot with <3 litre/100km in urban traffic. And every 250cc with <4 litre, even my wifes big fat MP3 LT 250.
To beat that in our congested short distance traffic, a car would have to be powered by plutonium. (Maybe with individual problems regarding this specific fuel.)
But the main reasons are that bikes are reliable (not stuck in traffic jam), fast and easy (parking).
Very cheap in insurance too, 25€/year (125cc) vs. 250€/year (small car) with a long clean record. Don't ask about car insurance premiums for beginners or careless wifes (man won't!? :D) - these premiums may be more expensive than the car itself.
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I drive every 125cc scoot with <3 litre/100km in urban traffic. And every 250cc with <4 litre, even my wifes big fat MP3 LT 250.
To beat that in our congested short distance traffic, a car would have to be powered by plutonium. (Maybe with individual problems regarding this specific fuel.)
But the main reasons are that bikes are reliable (not stuck in traffic jam), fast and easy (parking).
Very cheap in insurance too, 25€/year (125cc) vs. 250€/year (small car) with a long clean record. Don't ask about car insurance premiums for beginners or careless wifes (man won't!? :D) - these premiums may be more expensive than the car itself.
To get Total Cost of Ownership we would have to include many variables, some of them highly individual.
Agility on average consumes like 3-3.3, People 3.8 (summer) - 4.4 (winter).
Finally, as I said, you need both, sooner or later (children...)
It`s a scoot and a car, not one of them. :)
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Also, considering that we are on a scoot forum, I have to say that scoots are not incredibly gas saving. For example, average 250 cc scoot consumes 4-4,5 l of gasoline/100 km; average 500 cc will consume anywhere from 4.5-6 l/100 km. Even though I hate diesel cars, many (even mid-range) turbo diesel cars will consume 4.5-6 l/100 km of diesel fuel, even in urban cycle, that is also slightly cheaper. Maintenance of scoots is much more expensive than maintenance of cars as mileage rises (try to drive the same scoot for 100.000 kms and calculate all costs) and they have frequent service intervals.
On a personal note - I like everyone on this forum. There is no BS with Axy, he says exactly what he means. A fine quality. Everyone has their own, unique facets that shine and add a lot here.
As for the gas milage - That may be the way it is outside the US, but we get absolute crap for high efficiency cars here! Europe gets a lot of outstanding diesels. Oddly, diesel in the US used to be cheaper than normal gas. Since high efficiency diesels have been produced, it is more now. heck, Lexus has a HYBRID that gets 42 MPG!!! A normal Toyota Corolla comes close to that! I think we are getting screwed here.
I cannot believe that in the early nineties we had a Geo Metro delivering 50+ miles per gallon - Granted, it was small and light. But you cannot tell me we have not made advances in effiency in the internal combustion engine. I do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway. Grrrrrrrr.
So maybe in EU, a scoot isn't that much better in gas, but a 250cc scoot in the US will over double the milage of ANY car. It is a significant savings for us here. And they are 100000x more fun ;D.
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On a personal note - I like everyone on this forum. There is no BS with Axy, he says exactly what he means. A fine quality. Everyone has their own, unique facets that shine and add a lot here.
As for the gas milage - That may be the way it is outside the US, but we get absolute crap for high efficiency cars here! Europe gets a lot of outstanding diesels. Oddly, diesel in the US used to be cheaper than normal gas. Since high efficiency diesels have been produced, it is more now. heck, Lexus has a HYBRID that gets 42 MPG!!! A normal Toyota Corolla comes close to that! I think we are getting screwed here.
I cannot believe that in the early nineties we had a Geo Metro delivering 50+ miles per gallon - Granted, it was small and light. But you cannot tell me we have not made advances in effiency in the internal combustion engine. I do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway. Grrrrrrrr.
So maybe in EU, a scoot isn't that much better in gas, but a 250cc scoot in the US will over double the milage of ANY car. It is a significant savings for us here. And they are 100000x more fun ;D.
On the other hand, you in USA are very lucky because you have a good possibility of choice.
In the same car model, let's take for example, a medium sized hatchback or medium sized sedan - engines will start with naturally aspirated 1400 cc (110 hp), 1600 cc (125 hp), 1800 cc (140 hp), 2000 cc (160 hp)... then you can buy turbo diesels with roughly the same power...
In USA you will get for the start something like 1600 or 1800 / 140 hp, then V6, then bigger V6, then maybe V8 gasoline (for big cars and trucks/pickups/SUVs)...
Those V6 are not even available here and especially not V8. They are all replaced with turbo diesels (WHICH I HATE! :) ).
Trust me, our gasoline powered naturally aspirated cars are the same like yours and consume a lot of fuel. It is just that diesel substitution is much stronger here.
For example, in city cycle, average small hatchback 1.4-1.6/110 hp will need 10 l/100 km.
The same hatchback but turbo diesel will need maybe 6 l/100 kms.
For bigger displacements the difference is even bigger. If you have a SUV that consumes 20 l/100 km, it will need maybe 10-11 l of diesel/100 km.
There is really no way to compare scoots with cars, it is two complementing worlds...
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I think we are getting screwed here.
I thought you used to have some automobile industry - or did the engineers went into military "defense" industry alltogether?
do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway. Grrrrrrrr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight)
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On the other hand, you in USA are very lucky because you have a good possibility of choice.
In the same car model, let's take for example, a medium sized hatchback or medium sized sedan - engines will start with naturally aspirated 1400 cc (110 hp), 1600 cc (125 hp), 1800 cc (140 hp), 2000 cc (160 hp)... then you can buy turbo diesels with roughly the same power...
In USA you will get for the start something like 1600 or 1800 / 140 hp, then V6, then bigger V6, then maybe V8 gasoline (for big cars and trucks/pickups/SUVs)...
Those V6 are not even available here and especially not V8. They are all replaced with turbo diesels (WHICH I HATE! :) ).............
Most small to midsize cars in the US are offered with only one or two engines. If two engines, it will likely be a 4 cyl or 6 cyl. When it comes to small cars, you have a much bigger selection than we do in the land of "bigger is better". Of course we have a bigger selection of large cars, SUVs and trucks. Most of the vehicles here are also not offered with a manual transmission. Even if a vehicle is offered with a manual, it is quite likely the dealer won't have one in stock....but will have several with an automatic. Most American drivers probably don't even know how to use a manual transmission.
On a positive note, with the increase of gas prices, small cars are becoming more popular. Still, most are sold with an Auto tranny which does not perform as well in a small car, or get as many MPG.
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Most small to midsize cars in the US are offered with only one or two engines. If two engines, it will likely be a 4 cyl or 6 cyl. When it comes to small cars, you have a much bigger selection than we do in the land of "bigger is better". Of course we have a bigger selection of large cars, SUVs and trucks. Most of the vehicles here are also not offered with a manual transmission. Even if a vehicle is offered with a manual, it is quite likely the dealer won't have one in stock....but will have several with an automatic. Most American drivers probably don't even know how to use a manual transmission.
On a positive note, with the increase of gas prices, small cars are becoming more popular. Still, most are sold with an Auto tranny which does not perform as well in a small car, or get as many MPG.
Yep, all those facts are well known... I would say it is best to be obnoxiously rich :) and drive big V8 car WITH manual transmission. Best of both worlds. :)
Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody? :)
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Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody? :)
W16 (Bugatti Veyron Super Sport)!
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Yep, all those facts are well known... I would say it is best to be obnoxiously rich :) and drive big V8 car WITH manual transmission. Best of both worlds. :)
Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody? :)
If I won the lottery, I still wouldn't buy a big car. Small cars are more fun to drive. Especially small cars with lots of horsepower ;D
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I thought you used to have some automobile industry - or did the engineers went into military "defense" industry alltogether?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight)
America may not make decent cars or motorcycles, but we do have a knack for making weaponry, I guess.
The Honda Insight IS a Hybrid - NICE one too! Not insanely expensive either. We don't have any non-hybrids I know of getting better than 42mpg or so. Even the tiny, tiny Smart Car.
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Filled up our truck (Colorado X-cab) yesterday and the price..... 3.59.9. At times I go to Sam's and find the price to be normally 4-5 cent's less. The truck is going to sit quite often this summer if it ever get's here! Just a note to depress Pennsylvania rider's.....the pot holes are everywhere waiting to suck up a non-alerted biker. And the gravel, PA should come out with more raod signs....drive at your own risk....pot holes and gravel next million miles! I thought the gas price increase would help pay for all this up-keep.
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I thought the gas price increase would help pay for all this up-keep.
Federal gasoline taxes are a flat rate per gallon, not a percentage; IIRC, somewhere in the 18 cents/gallon range. Been that way for a very long time, too.
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Federal gasoline taxes are a flat rate per gallon, not a percentage; IIRC, somewhere in the 18 cents/gallon range. Been that way for a very long time, too.
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Thats true. If gas prices go up and people start to conserve, the government will take in less taxes.
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Probably you have VAT tax in addition to gas tax, so your government should be happy even when fuel prices go up.
In .de: 0.66€/litre gas tax (2.50€ = $3.53/gallon), final VAT 19%. Our tax is higher than your total price!
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Just a note to depress Pennsylvania rider's.....the pot holes are everywhere waiting to suck up a non-alerted biker. And the gravel, PA should come out with more raod signs....drive at your own risk....pot holes and gravel next million miles! I thought the gas price increase would help pay for all this up-keep.
I'm a refugee from PA - And that is the TRUTH! PA driving separates the Men & Women from the boys and girls.
On one visit home I had brought my crotch rocket and MISTAKENLY thought I'd be carving through the wonderfully twisty roads winding through the Appalachians like I was at Laguna Seca!
WRONG!
Every turn is littered with a horror show of:
- Potholes
- The gravely contents that used to live in the potholes
- Ash/Cinders from the 9 month snowy season
- PennDOT moguls (Do we not have the technology to fix a pothole without leaving a giant lump?)
- The gravely bits that are breaking loose from the PennDOT moguls
- INSANE Deer
You have to keep your wits about you driving in PA!
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When I worked for the news so many years ago, I was assigned to shot a photo relating to the PA Pot Holes. Well!, I did and it even won many contest's. What the pix was a large plastic shark with it's mouth wide open in one of the enormous water filled pot holes! I wish I would have saved a copy of that.The shark had all the color's and teeth of a real look of Jaw's!
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I could have ridden today since it got up in the 70's, but since i was well aware of the mentioned PA road situation this time of year, I just got it ready for when the weather gets consistently warmer next month. By then, hopefully, the roads will have improved.