KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MrKymco on January 28, 2011, 02:55:53 AM
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Hi everyone :)
I am about to do my first very own service on my scooter and need some feedback on a few things. I have an Agility 125, and have never done anything mechanical to anything before. But I know I can do this, I just have a few general questions and need some tips. Thanks! :)
First off, I am using full synthetic 10w40 at 1400 miles of riding. I need to know if this is ok, or should I stick with dino oil another several hundred miles for engine break in reasons?
Should I change the gear oil? I believe this was changed 700 miles ago, but can't be sure? It seems easy enough, and since the scooter is still pretty new, I figure it might not be necessary. But why not do it, anyway?
My manual states to CHANGE the air filter every 2000km. So it's time. But should I change it, or will simply cleaning it be ok? I would like to not mess with it at all for now, but if it's dirty I should know about it, I would think? It just seems a clean / swap every 2000km's is sort of precious for an air filter. I do all city riding, btw. It's not very dusty around town.
One of the big questions I have is about lube and grease points. The manual shows in general where these points are on the scoot but not close up (brake cable, wheel bearings, throttle cable, pivot points, etc) but when I look at these places on my scooter, I don't see anything or anywhere to lube up or grease! Everything seems covered by rubber or plastic or....nothing looks lubed or greased as it is, and I have no idea where or how to apply the stuff! Can someone please tell me or illustrate just where all this supposed chassis lubrication is supposed to go?
Lastly, I read on the forum the drain plug IS the oil screen bolt, also. And that is where the oil drains from. But in this video of a Super 8 oil change the guy drains oil from one side of the engine, and then removes the filter bolt. Now, I checked my Agility and it has the same bolt this guy drains from on the side there. Do I need to drain the oil like this guy does to get all the oil out, or will doing it from the filter bolt suffice?
Kymco Super8 Scooter Oil Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-_-W7-bDMo#)
Wow, thanks for reading all that guys (and Rhianna and Carol lol) and thank you much for any info, tips, and advice! ;D
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not sure on all the greese points. but to look for your gear oil bold is just above you air filter and to the side of it. drain for that is down by the brake cable on the bottom of the scoot .looks like you are all good to me.good luck and happy rideing.
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As far as the drain plug on the A125, either will work... but the one on the bottom of the crankcase is better, since it is slightly lower and it has the oil screen, which should at least be examined if not cleaned of any debris.
As for the gearbox, I would point you to my blog (http://kymcojones.blogspot.com/2007/06/first-scheduled-maintenance-day.html) from days gone by.
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Moving to synthetic is ok after break in (500mi), very ok after the 2nd service. You just want to give the engine time to wear in. On air cooled, high revving small engines, synthetic is the cat's pajamas.
I'd change out the final drive gear oil. It is 2 bolts. And that tub of Synthetic gear oil they sell will last you a lifetime. Can't hurt and it takes, literally, 10 minutes.
I'd avoid greasing any cables. Attracts grit and shortens lifespan. Unless you can find a decent, clean dry lube. Well sealed wheel bearings, no signs of seepage, are probably just fine for tens of thousands of miles. And other bits, I'd just apply a quick shot of penetrating oil. No worries.
As for the air cleaner, take a look at it - Does it look dirty? You can blow it out a bit from the backside if it looks clean. If you aren't in a place with LOW humidity and dust, air cleaners tend to last. Replacing it every 2000km seems REALLY ridiculous to me.
Just my $0.02
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thank you for that info, Whisper. and thanks, everyone :)
I BROKE MY DRAIN BOLT!!!!
damn it to damn it to hell!
jprestonian, i read your blog post about how tight your own was to get off the first time and took note. so i worked on my own slowly, but with good effort. finally it started to "give." then a little more, then more and then....SNAP!
pics
(http://i55.tinypic.com/n48sqo.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/xpc8ro.jpg)
now, the threads on the bolt look good. which concerned me because i know the threads of the drain hole could be stripped. when the bolt broke the threaded part what still in the hole, but loosely spinning. i was able to spin it out. after i dried everything up i spun the broken part of the bolt back into the hole (the bolt broke from the base of its threads as you can see) and it spins in fine. very smooth, no hesitation or weird feeling, and it hand tightens well. it then feels the same way coming out
i hope this means my drain hole threads aren't stripped?
please someone tell me they aren't stripped :'(
anyway, all the oil is out and hopefully a dealer or two has a bolt for me tomorrow. i will post back and say how everything went. one thing is for sure, i have no torque wrench, but the new bolt is not going on NEARLY as tight as the broken one!
also, is a bit of blue locktight ok to use on the drain bolt just to make sure its snug without over tightening, or is that sort of redundant or even bad to use?
thanks all!
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What crappy luck on your first go. Then again, most newbies have the opposite problem -- they overtighten the plug and then it strips the case threads. So, at least be happy it wasn't your fault. ;) Maybe they're overtightening at the factory.
I won't tell you your threads aren't stripped but they probably aren't. Even if they are "partially stripped" you may be ok. Were there tiny crumbly bits of metal on the plug threads when it came out?
It's usually recommended to coat the drain plug threads with fresh motor oil on reassembly -- just don't overtighten. Check it after warm up to see if it's leaking. Then check it for a few days afterward for your peace of mind. You can put a wrench on it anytime to see if it's still about like you want it. Loosen slightly and retighten.
As far as grease and such, there's no way to do the grease points without taking things apart and isn't necessary until much later. Don't squirt spray lubes into "grease points. That will thin the grease that's already in there. You can use spray lube on things like side stand pivot point since it's not a sealed bearing. I like to use a cable injector for lubing cables. I saw one at Harbor Freight for a few bucks. Can also order them on line. Again, lubing cables isn't too necessary unless they're pretty old or if you've gotten water in them which can freeze in cold weather. Not likely you'd get this on such a new scooter.
Good luck and congratulations. Sounds like you have the intelligence -- now just need to go on the learning curve of things mechanical.
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Ouch.
The good news: Drain plugs are generally interchangeable on the Taiwanese bikes (17mm, same pitch threads, etc.), so if you have a dealer nearby that carries Kymco, Genuine or SYM, you're probably in luck. They may be even more interchangeable than that, but I know that a plug that comes out of a Genuine Buddy 125, for example, will fit your Agility, no problem. Prima (the Scooterworks brand -- they're in cahoots with Genuine) makes a magnetic drain plug that would fit, as well... not that a magnetic one is really any better, but it may be very easy to find at a Genuine dealer.
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thank you for all that info, Hoolander. much appreciated, for certain. and thank you jprestonian for the drain bolt info. it may save me a 20 mile trip to my dealer and a little lecture about "well thats what we're here for!" so, i will look local first :)
so far as the tightness of the drain bolt Hoolander, i am pretty sure the dealer did that at its very first service at 1000Km. the owners manual calls for another oil change at 2000km (i am at 2150), and then the regular service interval of every 2000km. now i don't know if my dealer uses an impact wrench or just overtightened it with a regular wrench, but i doubt it was torqued properly. it was just so darn tight it may as well been welded on. i was thinking maybe dealers over tighten things like this to prevent guys like us from doing our own service. or at least discourage us from doing it. but we won't be stopped, will we!
no we won't :P
and i will be getting an inexpensive impact wrench to do my rollers and stuff. so that will help when the time comes to get stubborn bolts off. i am getting tools little by little even before i need them. because i know i will. so, onward and upward. i look forward to tomorrow to complete the job, and get the gear oil changed, too :)
i will post back up to say how all goes
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Go to scooterpartsmania.com , it should be 1-2 US$ with shipping.
I bought original Kymco and paid around 15 US$ without shipping. >:(
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ouch that sucks :'( when you get the new one just rember dont over tighten it. a good hand tight should be just fine. and allso rub some oil on the rubber sell befor puting on.
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I didn't think a drain bolt could be broken! Oh well. Was the engine warm or cold when you tried to remove it? To my knowledge, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you should loosen the drain plug when cold, snug it up a bit and run the engine to warm the oil, then remove the drain plug to change the oil. On a hot engine, the casing and the drain plug expand into each other and get tighter.
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ouch that sucks :'( when you get the new one just rember dont over tighten it. a good hand tight should be just fine. and allso rub some oil on the rubber sell befor puting on.
They get screwed not because of overtightening. They are literally MADE TO FAIL.
It is almost impossible, even for mechanics that have good set of tools, to properly fit the wrench to it because it has rounded part where metal meets metal at 90 degrees.
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this is true for some parts or almost all parts you should have a good set of tools that fit right and tight to the bold. I almost always cant find the right screw driver to fit he screws on the carb when I clean it theam screws always gives me a hard time.
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thanks guys. and yeah Agent Bob, a drain bolt can be broken lol. although i guess this isn't the drain bolt, exactly. it's the oil screen / spring cover. which is sort of a cheaply made one piece imo. so far as loosening the bolt when cold i have taken note of that advice, and did not do it first. and while i did ride the scoot around a few minutes before trying to loosen the bolt, i would not say the scooter was hot. even the exhaust could be touched by the time i got to trying to take the bolt off. it was just so darn tight i doubt a little heat could do that to it!
thanks for the tips and advice everyone :)
i went out yesterday and drove 60 miles once in town (in a CAGE! it was awful) trying to track down the part i need with no luck. a local Kymco dealer, a downtown shop, MY dealer (owner wasn't there), and another shop. no luck. not to mention several calls to dealers further out. i called my dealer back a couple hours later and the owner was there and said he was pulling apart a Kymco and i could have the part. said to call back on Wednesday and he should have it. which is pretty cool being he is closed Sunday and Monday and today is Sunday already. he even said he would take one off a new or used scoot and give it to me if need be. i loves my dealer :D
so, all is well that ends well, i hope. i will update thread when the time comes, and have gotten some semi synthetic gear oil in preparation for THAT job. i mean hey, what can go wrong! :P
thanks guys!
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Yeah, but the good news is, you got the broken piece out. It could have been stuck into the drain hole very tightly.
jon
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www.liquivac.com/ (http://www.liquivac.com/)
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woo hoo!
i'm gonna get me some of that. as long as its safe. i've read where things like this can be bad for engine seals and what not, but have no idea about those on scooters. i mean its an oil pan, right? at the bottom of the engine, and it only takes seconds!
and while i am skeptical about it getting ALL the oil out from the floor of the pan, i figure the new oil will recondition whatever drops are left, and then all that oil will be sucked out next change
good deal :D
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You mentioned it wasn't the drain plug, but the oil plug/screen/spring thingy. Use care when re-installing. If it's the same as on my S200, you have to compress the spring while you start the threads, and if you're not lined up right, you could strip the threads if you force it on.
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I've learned you should turn the spring plug backwards until it seats in, then screw it in finger tight, followed by a 1/4 turn snug using a 17mm 6 sided socket. At least, that's how it is on my s200.
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Good News - That drain plug looks like common cast metal. Not particulary strong, and any impurity,bubble, etc can make it quite weak.
I can pretty much assure you that it would take MUCH more force to rip the threads out of the engine case. There is a lot of surface area on a bolt hole that large, a lot of surface to distribute the force. And even milled aluminum would be stronger than die cast metal.
Just chalk it up to experience - The rubber O-ring will help keep the plug from vibrating loose. Get is just a bit over snug, remember it isn't holding your scoot together. (>.0 )
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When I first started working on my bikes, many years ago, my first oil change resulted in me stripping the oil filter cover bolts on a Suzuki 650. I immediately bought a 3/8 inch drive, click type torque wrench. Never stripped another bolt....the internet or a good service manual has the torque settings.
Did you ask about putting loctite on the cover? Nope sure wouldn't do that unless a manual recommended it. If you aren't an experience wrench turner, a torque wrench is a great investment!
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woo hoo! ;D
thanks for all the posts, advice, tips, and words of wisdom on everything from tools to how to screw in the plug and everything else. it has been a GREAT learning experience!
i got the part and completed the oil change, and i BROKE the dipstick! man oh man when it rains it pours. but no worries i made a makeshift dipstick and all is well in that department. i mean it still screws in and all, but the thin part that measures the oil broke from it's base.
i wonder if this ever happens to Vespa's ??? ::)
anyway, i will tackle my gear oil in a couple or a few days, but for now i am just basking in the glow of my success. i can swear the scoot even has more oomph in the top end, too. probably just my imagination, but it got up to around 55mph today smoothly and in no time at all. i used Mobil 1 10W40 fully synthetic "High Mileage" motor oil designed for car engines with 75,000+ miles on them. it's supposed to have special lube and conditioners in there to help further reduce wear and condition seals and gaskets. i figure a new(er) small engine is similar to a higher mileage big one when wear is concerned, so its all good. and no LEAKS :D
oh, and my dealer had a Stebal Magnum TM80 horn for $15 like the one user Cortez put in his Agility, so i snatched that puppy up and am going to install it now. i am so excited! what a deal, and now i have a truck horn for my scoot. woo hoo it's gonna blow cagers right off the road!
so, off i go to view Cortez's tuturiol on installing, and i will post back with pics to say how it all went. hopefully i don't break anything else!
thanks again....everyone! :)
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That plug is a STANDARD GY6 plug. Same as on the Chinese bikes, it even says GY6 on it, look at your photo.
Buy a few, they break all the time. Make sure to buy a bunch of the rubber O Rings, they leak all the time.
you can get the rings at any Ace hardware store, they have sizes that will fit just fine. I think the size officially is 38X30
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When it rains it pours for you, Mr Kymco! Did you fish the broken bit out?
There isn't a dire need for the high milage oil - Your seals are fresh and pliable, and all the bearings should be perfect! But there really isn't much difference anyway, between different types of oil - So you can't really go wrong! Any synthetic in the recommended range will be great. I'm a big fan of "Whatever-is-on-sale" brand ;D
Just make sure you are out of the next lane when you use Horn-asauraus Rex! When you startle cagers on their cellphone, they tend to weave ;D. Always fun to watch, and I consider it a public service. HA!
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There's really no friendly way to honk a Stebel, either. It's literally sh!t-your-pants loud.
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thanks for that info, scosgt. i'll keep some extras and some seals on hand. certainly is some soft metal, or so it seems
haha thanks, Whispers. yeah that darned dipstick. it didn't break off in the engine, but when i was wiping it! i mean, i didn't bend it really, or try to break it. just barely tweaked it one way, maybe. totally inadvertently. next thing i knew....snap! i stood there thinking 'WTF!!!' so i made a makeshift one to measure my oil level out of a popsicle stick :)
Horn-asauraus Rex lolol
i shall also keep that in mind about the cheaper oil :)
and yes jprestonian, i was dying to use my horn tonight. i was certain i would have the chance, as i had a 30 mile round trip through fast, Friday night rush hour traffic. cars zooming this way and that, myself dodging in and out and around things. it was good fun
but alas, not even once did i need to use the horn :(
also, i will post those pics of the swap, but as i was working i accidentally left the camera on and the batteries drained! the camera shuts off automatically after 10 min, but the batteries are old, i guess. and my stupid card reader doesn't work on my dumb computer.
no wait, i love my computer. i just hate the broken card reader!
the swap went well, however. and i got more shots then Cortez. i had to shave the inner part of the bolt hole of the new mounting bracket with a screwdriver so the bolt would fit through, as i haven't any tools that do that sort of thing, and it turned out well. got a good shot of that, too.
one thing that puzzled me (although i am sure it is easily explained) is that before the horn was mounted solid, it would not honk. just the sound of air came out. then once mounted securely it worked fine
i stood there thinking 'how the hell does the horn know if its mounted solidly or not?'
so far as i know, Stebal horns are not intelligent!
anyway, i will post those pics when i get them, and maybe even make a "how to" thread to go with. wouldn't hurt to have a fresh thread with instructions and pics, and potential problems laid out
i still have my gear oil to change, though. so this thread isn't dead yet!
thanks a million once more, guys. i am off and running with my Kymco! :)
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one thing that puzzled me (although i am sure it is easily explained) is that before the horn was mounted solid, it would not honk. just the sound of air came out. then once mounted securely it worked fine
i stood there thinking 'how the hell does the horn know if its mounted solidly or not?'
My guess is that the body of the horn is a ground.
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