KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: boliver228 on January 22, 2011, 01:56:29 PM
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Hi guys, I currently have a 2007 kymco super 9 air cooled. It is completely derestricted, but still has a standard exhaust. At the moment, it comfortably does 45 mph on a straight road. Now im 17 in a week, and am stuck on whether to keep my super 9 and try and tune it to get it really fast, or buy an automatic 125cc scooter. I do not want a geared bike so thats out of the question.
So what im wanting to know is what is the fastest you think i can get my super 9 to, and what do i need to have done it it? (I know very little about bikes).
How much do you think it will cost to do all this work to the bike? And do you think i should keep the super 9 and tune it, or try and buy a 125cc scooter?
Thanks
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For someone who self admittedly dosn't know much about bikes I would strongly advise not trying to inhance your 50cc . Get a stock scooter that will fill your needs and leave it that way. Good luck.
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You're gonna miss the fun of riding a two stroke. But the 125 is great for a practical bike that gets things done. This weather blows! :P
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Yeah I have decided against trying to tune my ped, its just a hassle and will likely cost more in the long run. Just going to look for a nice 125 scooter, and get one of those.
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47MPH TO 47MPH IS ABOUT RIGHT WITH JUST A BOSS DRIVE CHANGE----IF YOU WANT MORE SPEED JUST GO FOR A HIGHER CC SCOOTER
****AND THATS WITH AN GPS READING******
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Question for you guys in USA driving 50 cc scoots: what do you have to do in order to get a license to ride larger displacement bikes and how much does it cost?
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It depends on the state. In Florida you have to complete a basic rider course. Takes 2 to 3 days and costs from $200 to $225. This allows for a motorcycle endosement on your regular drivers lic.
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It depends on the state. In Florida you have to complete a basic rider course. Takes 2 to 3 days and costs from $200 to $225. This allows for a motorcycle endosement on your regular drivers lic.
This sounds quite easy and cheap: easier and cheaper than buying 50 cc 4T scoot, realizing it is too slow and cannot be tuned, selling it and then moving on to 125/250 cc.
Over here (car driver license=detailed medical exam, then first aid course that lasts three days, lectures in traffic theory that last a week or so, exam in theory, then approx 40 hours of driving practice, then driving exam = total cost of approx. 1800 US$) to drive a bike >50 cc, and if you already have driver`s license for a car, you have to drive 15 hours and then pass driving exam, total cost is at least additional 1000 US$!!!
If you do not have driver`s license for a car, and want license for a bike, you have to do everything like for car license, except driving practice that lasts 15 and not 40 hours and total cost is easily 1500 US$!
If I lived in USA I would not even consider 50 cc 4stroke scoots if I needed the scoot for anything more serious than going to a grocery store that is a mile away on flat surface.
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I started with a Like 50 and kept it 1 week. Took it back and got the downtown 300i. The 50 just wasn't fast enough for daily commute to the tennis courts. It maxed out at 38mpg and cruised nice at 35mph. Half of the ride was at 45mph. The 300 is just right. I took the 2 day course and will get the motorcycle endorsement this week. Then I'm legal.
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ANYTHING THAT WILL GO 30MPH OR LESS NEED NO LICENCE IN NYC
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Let me tell you my story. I have a 2008 A/C Super 9. Went about 36 MILES per hour stock, unrestricted drive boss. Nothing would get it faster, so I upped the game with a new variator, rollers, CDI and spring. It accelerated faster but top speed remains about 36MPH, verified by GPS.
So, next comes the big bore kit- Airsal 70 mm jug, Arreche 19 MM carb, and Technigas pipe. I matched the intake port carefully to the larger carb.
After much plug reading- it goes 47MPH. GPS verified. Nothing will get it any faster, but it pulls like a freight train and will beat most cars off the line.
Are you reading your speedo in MILES per hour or KILOMETERS ? I think most people don't know they are KPH....
Oh- and I weigh around 200 lbs- you gotta be pretty skinny to go faster, I guess....
I have never ridden a L/C Super 9, but reading some posts, they must be a helluva lot faster...
I am still shooting for 60 MPH.
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well ive owned two super 9's my first was an 08 ac did about 43 mph on a good day typicaly it stayed around 35 36 i got witnd of an 05 lc fully modded for a grand and my old ac s9 now it goes some where around 60 i guess the needle hits the far side of the blue kph (H) so im guessing it hits the 60 mph mark im not exactly shure all i know is that shge screems
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My liquid cooled 2004 Super 9 easily hits 45-48 mph (not kph). It was derestricted at purchase by the dealer (trans bushing) and I later pulled out the wire from the CDI that limited the revs at top speed. On a calm day (usually at night) with the right atmospheric conditions I can get it up to 50mph. Fon, fun, fun. The engine really loosened up after about 3,000 miles (5,000km) and cruises easily at 40-48 mph. I also make sure I vary the speed, as it's not good to run full throttle constantly.
I believe engine modifications will compromise reliability and greatly lower the mileage. Unless you enjoy messing around with and tuning these kind of engines, or have a need for some sub-legal transport, they are better left stock. Buy a scooter with a bigger engine!
Wil B.
Broadview, IL
'71 Guzzi Ambassador
'91 Nighthawk
'04 Kymco Super 9
'10 Kymco Yager 200
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depends on what street im on depends on my throttle pos i typicaly run 1/2 to 3/4 once in a wile i wot
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BElieve it or not, my s9 is "built" tho also but she PEGS the speedo. Couldnt gps it(hard to hold gps and steer...lmao) but indicated was a good 65mph... I can honestly say these fkrs are a BEAST.....
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not just fast but stupit fast lol
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BElieve it or not, my s9 is "built" tho also but she PEGS the speedo. Couldnt gps it(hard to hold gps and steer...lmao) but indicated was a good 65mph... I can honestly say these fkrs are a BEAST.....
So I hear. Having never ridden a L/C S9, I wish I could find one for sale. I bought my 2008 new, but of course the water cooled ones were long gone by then. I read and re- read posts on Yahoo groups, and their database has quite a few older Super 9s claiming 50 - 60 MPH.
For some reason my air cooled seems to have topped out at 47MPH. And I have spent a LOT of cash so far......LOL!!
Its all good. ;)
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yeah 50 60 plus
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Question for you guys in USA driving 50 cc scoots: what do you have to do in order to get a license to ride larger displacement bikes and how much does it cost?
in AZ you can take a class, or you can go to the DMV and take a written test for 7.00$ this gives you a 6 month "training" license, but you can't drive after dark. Then you go to the DMV and plop down another $25 to take the driver skills test.
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I have read about using different reed cages to increase power and RPMs on a 70cc engine. Anyone have any experience or suggestions about these? I found many from different vendors but have no clue which direction to look. It seems like an easy upgrade- IF it will help performance. My top RPM is around 9000. I am running a CDI like many have shown around here, and it does increase the top end a bit compared to the stock ignition. But it still feels like it wants to rev higher. :-\
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I don't think they make a cheaper aftermarket reed cage for the s9's... You may find a vforce to fit..oh wait, i think "kundo" makes one at mopedhospitalracing. There is ONLY 1 intake for the s9 and it's there also. Other than that,IDK........
What rollers/springs are you running?
What mods other than the cdi?
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I don't think they make a cheaper aftermarket reed cage for the s9's... You may find a vforce to fit..oh wait, i think "kundo" makes one at mopedhospitalracing. There is ONLY 1 intake for the s9 and it's there also. Other than that,IDK........
What rollers/springs are you running?
What mods other than the cdi?
Yes, Moped Hospital is 'out of stock"....
I have a Jasil variator from MHR, IIRC I currently have 6.5 g rollers. Also red springs on stock clutch, Malossi yellow torque spring with the plastic shim- spacer- thing, (what do you call that thing again, its been a year....) and the Airsal BBK from MHR. I am going to double check the piston squish and deck height again- I know the deck height was .5mm when I installed the kit. Not sure on the squish right now. It runs "pretty well", but starts hard right now after sitting all winter. I cleaned the carb well and put in fresh 93 octane gas with NO ethanol. I think ethanol is bad news now for everything.
I have a Malossi Delta clutch to install, when I find a new belt somewhere....lot of places "out of stock" on parts....
Carb jetting seems to work well- running a 95 main now, but it sputters a bit at mid throttle lately. I will put a new plug in it and double check things again. I port matched the intake to the carb.
I am always tweaking it . 47 MPH, GPS verified right now. Man, 60 MPH would rock!
....btw- I get 30 miles per gallon now.....! :o
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hmmm, yeah check that squish...
Did you ever use a degree whell and measure any port durations?
Holy gas leak batman :o 30 miles????... check fuel line?
What carb are you running?
Plz for give my ignorance but what exhaust?
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hmmm, yeah check that squish... Yes, I plan to check. I read around here to shoot for .7 to 1mm squish- ?
Did you ever use a degree whell and measure any port durations? THAT i have no clue- still learning ! I have .5mm deck height.
Holy gas leak batman :o 30 miles????... check fuel line? Yes, 30 mpg. I check very carefully. Have 95 main jet- plug readings seem to indicate it is right on. It runs best now after much jet swapping. Room for improvement? No leaks, though. Some guys on Yahoo groups run 115 jets... some run 85. Lots of variation...
What carb are you running? Arreche 19mm
Plz for give my ignorance but what exhaust? Tecnigas rs- 2 from MHR. I got their BBK
Is squish, as it relates to compression ratio, sensitive to octane rating? Should I be running 93 octane, with NO ethanol, or lower, 87- with ethanol? I bet it makes a difference. I will check mine.
I have tried to find data on same year as mine - the Yahoo group data base has a lot of water cooled scooters, which seem to be running much faster than mine. I obviously need more tuning, but finding instructions on these things, such as port durations, is kind of hard to find. I am certainly no expert on these engines, but am trying to duplicate what others do, with fair success. I am slowly figuring it all out!
The help that you and others have shown me here is MUCH appreciated- I would not have made it this far!
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i would go for closer to 1mm squish....
It sounds intimidating, well it did to me the 1st several times you do it... :D... With the .5 deck... that is below the top of the barrel, correct?.(not sticking above the cylinder barrel).. With that deck, maybe the squish is to big????
Yeah, the mpg will suffer like a mo fo with a bbk but you should still be getting around 55mpg.
Yeah, i am running the same carb atm myself, ported/polished oem intake with a 95mj, 20pj, needle in the middle...
Wheres youor needle at?. You have done plug chops to verify it's right on i assume? i had a issue similar on the zx, changed needle,etc. and now i'm back to 55mpg...lol
The rs2 is a awesome pipe on thes things...(unless you can get a yasuni.. ;))(i have the same pipe)
Airsal's seem to have some good casting. i'm thinking the durations are decent...i'm running like a 190 exhaust....126-128 transfer..... 124-126 boost
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i would go for closer to 1mm squish....
It sounds intimidating, well it did to me the 1st several times you do it... :D... With the .5 deck... that is below the top of the barrel, correct?.(not sticking above the cylinder barrel).. With that deck, maybe the squish is to big????
Yeah, the mpg will suffer like a mo fo with a bbk but you should still be getting around 55mpg.
Yeah, i am running the same carb atm myself, ported/polished oem intake with a 95mj, 20pj, needle in the middle...
Wheres youor needle at?. You have done plug chops to verify it's right on i assume? i had a issue similar on the zx, changed needle,etc. and now i'm back to 55mpg...lol
The rs2 is a awesome pipe on thes things...(unless you can get a yasuni.. ;))(i have the same pipe)
Airsal's seem to have some good casting. i'm thinking the durations are decent...i'm running like a 190 exhaust....126-128 transfer..... 124-126 boost
Yes, the deck I measured is .5mm below the barrel. The other gasket I got with the kit was at 1mm. I may put that back in, after I check the squish- this weekend I should have time. I will also re check the carb- I think the needle is in the center now. It also has a 20 pj . I ran with NGK BR8HSA and B9HS plugs and tried for the best looking color. I should probably chop a few, eh?
I have to learn about the port timing and check mine ... any suggestions?
Also, ....55MPG??? I never got that when it was brand new off the dealer floor!!!!!! I carefully track the mileage every tank.
( I weigh about 200, but who can resist WOT......)
I did not buy this thing to save big on gas, but OTOH, I know a guy with a Yamaha C3 getting OVER 100 MPG.....
I seem to have the same carb setup as you- ported and polished the stock manifold, 95 main, 20 pj, needle in middle, also a K&N filter. Should my MPG get better?? If I increase my deck height, and squish is within 1mm, should performance and Mileage increase?
Tons of questions, huh?
THANKS a million!!!
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You need to remove the engine to measure port timings and use a degree wheel to get acturate degree's... There are several printable wheels on the net.. i printed mine off and appied to a piece of cardboard, cd's work good too...
I cant get over your mpg... especially when you said you never got any really. that's odd.. you checked the petcock, tank,etc. for leaks?.. made sure the carb isnt overflowing?
oh, you dont want to INCREASE the deck hieght, that'll increase the squish. When i had the squish set on my zx before this build, i got 4mph from just that
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You need to remove the engine to measure port timings and use a degree wheel to get acturate degree's... There are several printable wheels on the net.. i printed mine off and appied to a piece of cardboard, cd's work good too...
I cant get over your mpg... especially when you said you never got any really. that's odd.. you checked the petcock, tank,etc. for leaks?.. made sure the carb isnt overflowing?
oh, you dont want to INCREASE the deck hieght, that'll increase the squish. When i had the squish set on my zx before this build, i got 4mph from just that
Well, today I checked the squish with 50/50 solder. I measured 2mm in several spots. That seems kinda large, huh? I also have a large oil leak out of the exhaust port dripping all over now. I had my suspicions when I installed the BBK last summer- it seemed kind of sloppy and I believe it needs a thicker gasket. I am running the stock oil pump, but it seems really messy out the pipe. It also fouled the plug a bit, making it start hard lately. I had problems with the pump while under warranty, they replaced it twice - I had a thread on this going last year. I tried premixing for a while but said screw it and re installed the pump.
How do you tighten up that squish- I have the thinner gasket on the barrel now, could I use a slight layer of RTV instead to tighten up the squish? I plan on pulling the head again to re check the deck, but I was pretty confident that it was .5mm.
Even if I use no gasket, removing the .5 mm gasket only gains .5mm leaving squish at 1.5 mm or so.
Any suggestions?
I also received my manual choke yesterday for the Arreche. I don't think my electric one works well anymore.
As far as fuel mileage, NO gas leaks at all, at least while parked. I think I got about 45- 50 MPG when new. That really isn't THAT impressive, considering my old Razz got 72 MPG once in a while.....(sloooooooow).
I hope I am not hogging this thread, but hey, it does ask How Fast Can Your Super 9 Go... 8)
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Wow.... I get 62mpg religiously at 47mph(top speed via gps) on my derestricted 2002 Super 9LC. If I drive her nice around 35ish I can get between 72-80mpg. I have a BBK(not installed yet) and was wondering what mpg I would have once its done. Your 30mpg scares the hell out of me....lol.
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I think the point you are missing Axy is (for me) I ride 50cc scoots because ANYONE can buy a bigger/faster scoot. The FUN is in beating these guys at their game. Scooters are TOYS! NOT vehicles. I sure dont want a 5'000 dollar scooter. That's like a 5"000 dollar Barbie.
I ride ONLY 50cc, and will never stop. Its not about being cheap. It's about how much fun it is going 60mph on a toy.
In my shop I have an '82 Sturgis edition Harley Wide Glide that has not been ridden in three years. Next to that is my '90 Jeep Cherokee. I ride in that about 4-5 times a year. I just sold the '79 Pathfinder se, as it has sat for the same three years, and honestly I HATE being in a car. I feel like death is riding with me. I don't like the Harley any better. It's too easy to keep twisting the throttle.
I choose to move to a Quite lil Swamp, and live a Quite lil life. 50cc is all I need. To top it off I spend in ONE YEAR on vehicles what others spend in 2 months for fuel/insurance/tires.
I should state I am 53 this month, and have had over 100 cars, and more than 130 scoots/motorcycles. I have NEVER held a Drivers lisc. in ANY state. Just my choice. Just as I have chosen to be a mechanic. I have 2 bachelors degrees, and have never liked the work force. So I fix toys, and will never give in to having "permission" to ride on the roads I paid for.
50cc'ers of the world unite! Just stay away from me...
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I think the point you are missing Axy is (for me) I ride 50cc scoots because ANYONE can buy a bigger/faster scoot. The FUN is in beating these guys at their game. Scooters are TOYS! NOT vehicles. I sure dont want a 5'000 dollar scooter. That's like a 5"000 dollar Barbie.
I ride ONLY 50cc, and will never stop. Its not about being cheap. It's about how much fun it is going 60mph on a toy.
In my shop I have an '82 Sturgis edition Harley Wide Glide that has not been ridden in three years. Next to that is my '90 Jeep Cherokee. I ride in that about 4-5 times a year. I just sold the '79 Pathfinder se, as it has sat for the same three years, and honestly I HATE being in a car. I feel like death is riding with me. I don't like the Harley any better. It's too easy to keep twisting the throttle.
I choose to move to a Quite lil Swamp, and live a Quite lil life. 50cc is all I need. To top it off I spend in ONE YEAR on vehicles what others spend in 2 months for fuel/insurance/tires.
I should state I am 53 this month, and have had over 100 cars, and more than 130 scoots/motorcycles. I have NEVER held a Drivers lisc. in ANY state. Just my choice. Just as I have chosen to be a mechanic. I have 2 bachelors degrees, and have never liked the work force. So I fix toys, and will never give in to having "permission" to ride on the roads I paid for.
50cc'ers of the world unite! Just stay away from me...
F*CK YEAH!!!!!!!! ;D ;) :D ;D
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Just putting this out there. I'm not afraid to admit it. A lot of us have suspended/revoked licenses for reasons we care not to mention. It's not something we choose but the life we have to live. For most of us transportation is our lives. We ride 50cc scooters because it's the only legal transportation. I don't live in the city. Buses don't come to where I live. What's my option? I have known people that drive without licenses. I say good luck to them. I know for a fact if I drive a motor vehicle on a public road and get caught I will go to prison. For me it's just not worth it. I've told myself I'd never ride a scooter. But you know what, I don't care what other people think anymore. It's my life and my freedom. That's what my 50cc scooter means to me is freedom. If anybody fat European has a problem with the way I live he can go F##k himself!
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your trouble is in the jug height. Your compression is too low because of the giant squish. For it all to work right the piston at BDC MUST be equal to the bottom of the lowest port. That will be the correct jug height. Then depending on your head the Cly may need to be milled to get the proper deck height. You do want between .4-1.0mm The smaller the squish the higher the octane rating you n I run fine on 90oct, and a .8mm squish on two different kits. Get your squish right, and your rpm's and power will climb. Get the jug height, and post what the piston/deck height is.
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I don't care what other people think anymore. It's my life and my freedom. That's what my 50cc scooter means to me is freedom.
F*CK YEAH!!!!!!!!
I really don't think its a money thing. It's a life style...I know you get that Axy. You chose the same path... Just the store bought one. We are "home brewed". Slingers got his Lisc. and still scoots 50's. Out of 8-10 known scoots in my county 7-8 of them are 50cc's. I really have no love for bigger scoots. May as well get a REAL bike.
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I really have no love for bigger scoots. May as well get a REAL bike.
Yuuuup!
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Lol... love the dedication :) I would go balls deep on my build, but Im lookin for best mpg.
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Slingers got his Lisc. and still scoots 50's. Out of 8-10 known scoots in my county 7-8 of them are 50cc's. I really have no love for bigger scoots. May as well get a REAL bike.
...it issa life...i got over the astigmatism...and so did everybody else...wwaaay early on...
..there are 4 guys, and one grl where i work, that chose to scoot....
..there are 3 more waiting in th wings...kinda on the fence..wanting to...