KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: Dale on August 15, 2024, 02:44:51 PM
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I bought this scooter new and noticed a small anti-freeze leak. The main tech at the dealer said no problem, that it will happen occasionally also others on the forum had a similar problem. After 2 years and 3000 miles it has grown worse. There is now a small puddle almost every week. It must be coming from the water pump and by now there should be a trail that I can follow to the source. I have no idea how to get to the water pump or how difficult it might be. Even if I can't fix it, at least I'll know what I'm dealing with. Any suggestions!
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If it were just a once in a big while drop on the floor then that is not an issue. I've seen that on more than one bike.
But yours seems to be becoming an issue that should be taken care of. The coolant pump (water pump) is located on the left side at the front bottom of the alternator housing. Because the alternator is dry there are 2 seal bearings on the shaft from the alternator out to the water pump. There is a weep hole between the 2 seal bearings to prevent any coolant from getting into the alternator housing. That is likely where the drip is coming from. Check the bottom directly under the water pump to see if there is any coolant there. The problem is likely the outer seal bearing. Here is a pic showing locations and another link for the service manual that can help in fixing this issue. Download the service manual PDF file for easier viewing. You will likely need to remove the left foot board to get to the water pump even though it somewhat hangs below the bottom of that panel.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1qTDdGDQe3uLBtqk8 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/1qTDdGDQe3uLBtqk8)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M-nAUW1Ay0L6bK50D_EMwYPFT_4-YeDj/view?usp=drive_link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M-nAUW1Ay0L6bK50D_EMwYPFT_4-YeDj/view?usp=drive_link)
I currently have over 16600 miles on mine in less than 3 years. The only two times I had a very minor drip, at different times, happened within the first 7000 miles. But no drips since. That was 2 years ago.
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Thanks Bob, I didn't think anyone would have the service manual on so new a scooter. I already downloaded it and it will take me awhile to understand it all.
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Thanks Bob, I didn't think anyone would have the service manual on so new a scooter. I already downloaded it and it will take me awhile to understand it all.
The AK 550 is not really as new as some think. It was first distributed in 2017 but only first came to the USA with the 2021 model year. I consider this to show how well proven this super scooter is. This service manual was what I could find from the Austrian Kymco head office... www.Kymco.at
Found it in their technical documents download page. There is also a color electrical diagram. I believe both were published for the 2020 Euro 4 model but there is VERY LITTLE difference since then. Nothing significant that I can find. I think last year Cyclepedia published another service manual based on the 2021 or 2022 USA version of the AK. Not sure if it is as complete as the official manual that I have.
Here is a link to my copy of the electrical diagram. I normally have to zoom in to 200% or 300% to clearly read it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M48vAJRF57y060p1fRAHnw0bEhk3DBpd/view?usp=drive_link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M48vAJRF57y060p1fRAHnw0bEhk3DBpd/view?usp=drive_link)
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After looking at the service manual, I could see this was way beyond my capabilities. Had Sun and Fun Motorsports pick it up and repair it. They also did some annual maintenance. Its a little crowded in my garage with my big lawn tractor and 2 scooters than the car behind them. Maybe I'll sell one, well see.
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What coolant do you guys use on your ask 550 mine leaked out I want to add more to bring it to the shop it was a green coolant,the manual states to use kymco sigma but I can’t even find the word on google
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What coolant do you guys use on your ask 550 mine leaked out I want to add more to bring it to the shop it was a green coolant,the manual states to use kymco sigma but I can’t even find the word on google
Don't know where you hail from. See if you can find Suzuki coolant. There are 2 types of that stuff. One is the standard coolant for aluminum motors, I think it is green. The other is long life coolant also for aluminum motors and is good for twice as long as the standard stuff. I think the long life coolant is blue. But I may be wrong about the colors. This is what is designed to be used in Suzuki bikes including their Burgman 650. Not much performance difference in the coolant for the AK 550. Should be no problem. Honda bike coolant should also be good. Or Yamaha. Or BMW. They all have the green stuff at least.
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personally, I match coolant color at NAPA, they have every color under the sun, that way you don't end up with coolant that looks like mud
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It finally happened with my AK. I noticed a small puddle of coolant under the bike 2 days ago and noticed there was a small drip from the weep hole. This has happened twice before the first year I owned the AK with a lot of time between drips. Just a few drips that are very small are considered normal. Just a few drops and then nothing. This time it was a little more. I looked again yesterday and noticed that there was coolant on the bottom hose that runs from the bottom of the radiator to the water pump and also coolant on the bottom of the water pump. When the temps warm up a bit more next weekend I plan to pull the foot board and a panel or two on the left side to verify what the real issue is. I suspect a loose hose clamp at the radiator. Hopefully that's all there is to the coolant on the hose. I am ordering a mechanical seal and rubber seal that goes between the impeller and weep hole as well as the gasket for the water pump cover. All parts available at TBSS for relatively low cost. The other bearing, between the weep hole and the alternator, should be fine. Maybe I'll also order a new C-clip that holds it all on the impeller shaft. most of those parts are only a few $$. The mechanical seal is not a ball bearing item as many would think but it is a high wear part. It is a nylon/rubber seal. The radiator hose should not be an issue other than the clamp coming loose. That has happened on other engines and vehicles I've had so nothing unusual about that. It happens sometimes.
When I do this maintenance I'll also drain and flush the coolant. It's a little past time anyway. The OEM coolant is the green stuff. I ordered some Honda HP Coolant, blue, from Amazon. Even though it is blue it is labeled as 100% compatible with "original green" coolant. Since I will be flushing the cooling system anyway it really doesn't matter about that last bit.
Flush with 50/50 mix of distilled water and vinegar and run the engine until the fan comes on. Then drain. Then flush with just distilled water only and run the engine as before. Then drain. Then refill with proper coolant. The AK takes a total of 1500 cc of coolant (radiator, engine AND reserve tank). That's just over 50 oz.
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Today was around 60F, just over in the garage. Was colder yesterday and will be colder with rain/snow for the next few days. So I took some time to remove the left side cover, the panel under the left lower foot board. I also removed the left panel floor set, the left lower foot board and alternator cover (these are attached and come off as one part). That exposed the alternator, water pump and outlet radiator hose as well as the bottom of the radiator. I won't need to remove any more panels to work on this issue. One of the things I really like about this Kymco is that the body panels are a LOT easier to work with, remove and replace, than the Burgman 650 I had or any other bike I've worked on with body panels... which is basically all of my bikes since 2002.
I could see that coolant is seeping out around the hose where it is clamped on the radiator outlet. The clamps are good. They seemed to be tight. The hose also looked in good condition otherwise but for the leaking coolant. There is also the coolant drip (very slow drip) from the weep hole at the water pump. This indicates the mechanical seal bearing is worn. I see no other issues that need to be repaired.
I went to TBSS to order the parts. They have all the parts I need. I am deciding to replace the outlet radiator hose, mechanical seal bearing, the oil seal that goes with the mechanical seal, and the water pump housing O-ring gasket. The most costly part is the mechanical seal at $15, then the outlet hose at $8, then the oil seal at $3 and the gasket at $1.50. Total parts cost is $27.50. The bad news is the shipping which comes to $25 resulting in a total cost for parts and shipping of $52.50!!!
Tomorrow I plan to call the Kymco dealer in Iowa City to see if they can ship me the parts and for what cost. I found that there is another branch of the same dealer that is only 53 miles away so I might try there first. The Iowa City dealer office is 125 miles away from me. But the closest dealership is smaller and in a very small town so we'll see. They are all closed on Mondays so I'll call them tomorrow (Tuesday).
In any case, this parts replacement looks like it will be easy enough to do. Since there is a leak I'm not riding until it is fixed, and the cooling system is flushed and refilled with new coolant. I'll be leaving the bits I removed off the AK until then.
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@rjs987, pls see pic...
for the internal (clued) sealring (red arrow) you would need a long inverted bearing puller (14mm appr), heat it up properly before with a heatgun.
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@rjs987, pls see pic...
for the internal (clued) sealring (red arrow) you would need a long inverted bearing puller (14mm appr), heat it up properly before with a heatgun.
Don't currently have a bearing puller but would this work?
https://a.co/d/hF439Ot (https://a.co/d/hF439Ot)
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Bummer.
Just found out that Sun & Fun Motorsports in Iowa City,IA is no longer a Kymco dealer. Will have to go elsewhere for parts or order from TBSS.
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Don't currently have a bearing puller but would this work?
No, this "legged" pullers do not have enough strenght. Coz in this filigrane size (10 - 14mm) they would bend. Has to be smtg like att pic..
https://a.co/d/hF439Ot (https://a.co/d/hF439Ot)
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So a 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) puller like I posted won't do it?
I did check with the next nearest dealer in Iowa to see what prices they can quote me for the parts. Came out WAY more than TBSS. Most of the parts were more than double the cost. Even though their charge for shipping the parts to me is lower the total cost ended up being a lot more... by about $43 which is a lot considering. I ordered from TBSS. Besides, the "local" dealer said the one more important part I need, the mechanical seal, is out of stock and not expected until sometime in April. TBSS has not indicated but I wouldn't expect them to until they start to process the order. I should get the parts by end of this month. I just need to pick up a bearing puller that will work well without costing as much as all the parts. I don't need the tools for running a shop, just enough to work on this task once in a big while.
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Bummer.
Just found out that Sun & Fun Motorsports in Iowa City,IA is no longer a Kymco dealer. Will have to go elsewhere for parts or order from TBSS.
Nooo! My local shop quit selling Kymco? That's disappointing. Sad to see them give up on Kymco.
(edit - just checked their inventory, no Kymco models in stock..)
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Nooo! My local shop quit selling Kymco? That's disappointing. Sad to see them give up on Kymco.
(edit - just checked their inventory, no Kymco models in stock..)
Your next nearest dealer is over in Bettendorf... Brenny's Motorsports. Or maybe Dr Powersports in Cedar Falls. I stopped by Dr once a few years ago and they did have some smaller Kymco scooters on the floor but they told me they won't touch the AK... which a violation of their contract with Kymco actually.
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Yes, this 12.7mm might work IF you can get inderneath with the pullers legs.
Should work if you heat the piece up properly. Its destroyed anyway.
The ceramic seal is a vulnerable part and to replaced together with its counterpart.
I always take the whole kit, which range from € 50,- to 150,- depending on model.
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Yes, this 12.7mm might work IF you can get inderneath with the pullers legs.
Should work if you heat the piece up properly. Its destroyed anyway.
The ceramic seal is a vulnerable part and to replaced together with its counterpart.
I always take the whole kit, which range from € 50,- to 150,- depending on model.
I didn't find a "whole kit" but just individual parts. TBSS did email me a few days ago telling me the parts have shipped with a tracking number. As is normal there is no ETA until it arrives in the USA and USPS (which is completing the shipping) receives it. But it does show as left Taiwan.
I figure that if the puller won't "catch" with the puller legs then I'll just break it out since that part is toast anyway. I've done something like that before without any damage to the seat. Heating it up will make it easier either way I do it.
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f....igure that if the puller won't "catch" with the puller legs then I'll just break it out since that part is toast anyway. I've...
Yes,
can be done in this way, just not to demage the seat.
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Just checked... Parts are now being processed by USA customs in Chicago. I will likely have the parts by the end of the week... maybe.
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Just checked... Parts are now being processed by USA customs in Chicago. I will likely have the parts by the end of the week... maybe.
FINALLY!!! Today, as is common with USPS coming out of Chicago, the parts are shown to have left the USA customs department and suddenly showed up in my local area distribution center. That means it will be another 3-4 business days before they'll finally be delivered. Assuming the local area distribution center knows how to read the label from Taiwan (and it IS in English).
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Parts arrived yesterday! A few days earlier than I was expecting. Now waiting on the bearing puller to arrive (Thursday) and work will commence.
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The bearing puller I ordered arrived today. Test fit it with the new bearing part I have for the repair... didn't fit. The size given in the description is the right size IF I could get the legs into the bearing. That's what doesn't fit. So this one is being returned to Amazon.
So I've ordered this one that should work. It's a collet type of motorcycle blind bearing puller kit.
https://a.co/d/9n3AKle (https://a.co/d/9n3AKle)
This one has a bit as small as 8mm and also a 10mm, 12mm, up to 25mm.
Should be here tomorrow.
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The new puller set I linked to in my last post arrived today. I tested the fit and the 12mm collet works great for pulling the bearing and seals out. At least it fits great in the new ones. Now to get past the next few days that will be colder weather for working in the garage to flush the cooling system and take it apart.
I figure I'd flush it first so it will be cleaner when I get it apart.
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Finally a nice day that I also had time to use it...
First thing I did was remove the panels on the right side. I already removed the panels on the left side.
Here are a few photos of that.
Left side: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iCnBDWW83wgGnvwF7 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/iCnBDWW83wgGnvwF7)
Right side: https://photos.app.goo.gl/61y8ZJhNgaUa6EZi6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/61y8ZJhNgaUa6EZi6)
No need to remove more than these panels.
edit: I did remove the front inner 2 screws of the lower foot board to make it easier to remove the slanted foot board. In one photo I am pointing to one screw and one large plastic rivet that needs to be removed to take off the front panel. They are kind of hidden.
I then pulled the radiator fill tube from the holders so it hangs out as shown. This now looks the same as I see in the service manual.
I removed the radiator cap, then the drain bolts at the water pump to drain the coolant into a container. I am using a wide mouth container to catch the coolant as it drains and then pouring that into a half gallon milk jug to take to recycling. I also pulled the bottom hose at the coolant recovery tank to drain that as well.
Then I put the recovery tank hose and drain bolt back on and filled the system with 1/2 distilled vinegar and 1/2 distilled water. The system only holds a total of 1500 cc or 50.5 oz so not a lot of fluid. 1200 cc in the cooling system (radiator and engine) and 300 cc in the recovery tank. This step took a long time to pour in a little "flush mix" and wait for it to move into the radiator. I'd pour a little and then shake the bike side to side, pour a little more, repeat. Still didn't take anywhere close to 1200 cc since the engine doesn't fill this way. The recovery tank filled easily.
Then I ran the engine until the fan turned on and continued running for a few minutes more. I checked the recovery tank and refilled it as needed. I let the system cool a little while before opening the radiator cap SLOWLY and still has a little blow out. After shaking the bike some more I was able to open the cap and add more flush mix until the radiator was full again. Then I ran the engine past when the fan turned on again. I repeated this a few more times until I wasn't able to add any more to the system. Still didn't take all the measured flush mix I had ready. Maybe 900 cc at the most.
Then I drained the system as before and there was still a lot of green coolant but it was very diluted. I then repeated the flush sequence but using ONLY distilled water this time. I repeated all the steps I did before. This time when I finally drained it out it was still a little green but very diluted. I am letting it sit with the drain bolts out and the bottom radiator hose removed at the water pump to let it all drain out. Sometimes it seems to have stopped draining and then another dribble comes out as air bubbles through. I'll let it sit overnight like this and then take apart the water pump and alternator cover tomorrow.
It takes time to get all the fluid in... or as much as I can get in... and then heat it up to flow through the engine... and then wait for it to cool before touching anything to prevent burns.
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Wow!
That left side cover is a bear to get off. Still working on it. Since there is oil in that space I needed to pull the front oil drain plug directly below the cover. The cover also seems to have a liquid gasket glue like seal that is holding it on. There are 3 pry or pull tabs around the cover but I can only get the bottom unsealed and the top and sides don't want to break free. I know there is a bearing for the stater/flywheel so I'm trying my best to pull it straight out but that's proving to be really hard. The stater stays on the cover.
Anyone have any hints to make it easier?
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Please ignore that last post...
BIG HINT: triple and quadruple check that ALL the bolts are removed!!!
Yeah, there was one bolt hiding at the very top up under some cables and a part of the panels I didn't remove. Took that bolt out and the cover sides off easily. Figured it just had to be something simple that I was missing.
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Parts replaced. Everything is now reassembled and waiting for the gasket sealant to cure before I can refill coolant and oil. About half the oil needed to be drained in removing the left cover.
A few cautions for doing this. When removing and installing the left cover care must be taken since there is a pin that fits into the starter gear. Also, when removing the cover I discovered that the starter gear shifted on the teeth of the flywheel gear so was offset from where it should be. I aligned the starter gear and inserted the pin into it. The pin is loose. I knew the gear was in the right alignment when the cover was able to be reinstalled since one end of the pin fits into a hole in the cover. Adding the gasket maker/sealant was a mess. Putting the cover on required the bolts be only finger tight... enough that the silicone gasket sealant oozed out around the edges. That sits for an hour and then tighten the bolts to torque.
Then I replaced the lower radiator hose and installed the water pump cover. I reattached the hoses to the water pump housing. Tomorrow night or Monday morning I'll refill oil and coolant and test for leaks.
The gear puller worked with some finesse after heating the mechanical seal/bearing. The old seal came out in parts. The inner part with the spring fell out without effort, then the metal part is what needed extra effort to break free. After that the sealing gasket/bearing had to be wedged out since the bearing puller just slipped off because that one is mostly rubber/silicone. The third seal is in the impeller itself. I took pictures of the removed parts. I used correctly sized sockets to seat the new bearings. The one I used for the mechanical seal/bearing can be seen in one of the photos. I cleaned up the cover surfaces before reinstalling and replacing the water pump gasket.
Here are photos of the parts:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZJt7EBy6WP19VSAo8 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZJt7EBy6WP19VSAo8)
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Well done! 👍
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Bad news.
I think the parts I was sent don't match exactly with the model AK I have. They all looked exactly the same as the parts I took out. And I was VERY careful to install them the same as the parts I took out. But today when I finally had time to finish I started pouring coolant into the radiator and noticed that it simply started to drain out the weep hole as if there were no seals installed.
That's not right.
My next move is to take it to the dealer to let them make it right.
My wife is implying that I made a mistake buying a Kymco since it isn't a mainstream brand for the USA with a local dealer.
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Wow Bob, that’s not good news. I think in your place I’d be taking the same course! Hey, you gave it a good shot, no shame in admitting defeat and handing it over to the professionals who will (hopefully) have access to all the necessary manufacturers’ expertise!
Hope you get it resolved quickly and that SWMBO quickly moves onto another topic…
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Sorry to read! There is only one original water pump replacement kit from KYMCO. Has its price though.
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Sorry to read! There is only one original water pump replacement kit from KYMCO. Has its price though.
I bought all the parts except the impeller and the oil side bearing. The parts I didn't replace looked and worked in perfect condition.