KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: grantourismo on November 30, 2010, 11:12:17 AM
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ok as you guyz know my brand new quannon failed to work on the seconday
the dealer has taken it back for repair
it has been a week (I said to them they can have two weeks to fix it just have to be 100% sure it is working when I got it back)
the dealer e mail me they change a jet in the carb but problem remains so a kymco representative arrived and they decided to
swap the CDI and they re testing it daily hot and cold.
One thing that really frustrated me is if the bike fails to work and I wanna an exchange but the dealer is very firm
to not to exchange but repair under warranties. I am thinking if I got it back and still not working if I filed a complaint to Fair trading
who is suppose to look after consumer , are they any good?
Because I dont really want to wait for two month reply and all that beaurecrat carp ...
has anyone ever done that before ???
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It is normal for the dealer to attempt to repair a problem under warranty before even considering replacement. They may find a defective part and solve the problem. If you get it back and it's still not working then you will be able to request an exchange for a new one. I imagine the dealer has to follow the policy and procedures that are set in place by the manufacturer. I am thinking you are still a few steps away from filing a complaint. Have you asked about a loaner while the process is ongoing?
I'm sorry your Quannon is having troubles, grantourismo, and I hope the problem is solved quickly for you. :)
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I would check your state motor vehicle laws. Be careful that there is not a time limit that the dealer is running out. IE you might be legally protected so that he HAS to take it back within 30 days. But if he messes with it for that time and the limit runs out then you may not have as much recourse.
Sorry for your problems. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have a new bike and not be able to RIDE!!!
Good luck. :)
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Stay on top of that dealer. If you don't they will find away to get out the contract they have with you. They can label the scooter a lemon and refuse to do any more warranty work on it, whether it is still under warranty or not. Thats what happened to my wifes scooter. Keep on them. Get what is yours.
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And you may want to keep a written record or documentation of all actions involved...Hope you never need to use them, though!
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Had sort of the same issue with my people 200.
Mine was in and out of the shop for almost 2 years!
Research the *lemon law* in your state. In this state it has to be in the shop x amount to qualify.
The issue with my people was the little bulbs in the head light kept draining the battery while running.
Which happened to be a recall from 2007, my dealer wasn't aware of.......or so he said.
Good Luck and ride their azz like you stole it!
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And you may want to keep a written record or documentation of all actions involved...Hope you never need to use them, though!
i try to contact them by e mail so it can be used as electronic evidence ...
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Had sort of the same issue with my people 200.
Mine was in and out of the shop for almost 2 years!
Research the *lemon law* in your state. In this state it has to be in the shop x amount to qualify.
The issue with my people was the little bulbs in the head light kept draining the battery while running.
Which happened to be a recall from 2007, my dealer wasn't aware of.......or so he said.
Good Luck and ride their azz like you stole it!
I got into argument with that dealer on the phone , he says he is working hard on it and I keep chasing him down !
OF COZ anyone would do that if a brand new thing break down god knows if it would keep breaking down again and again !
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Stay on top of that dealer. If you don't they will find away to get out the contract they have with you. They can label the scooter a lemon and refuse to do any more warranty work on it, whether it is still under warranty or not. Thats what happened to my wifes scooter. Keep on them. Get what is yours.
what do you mean a lemon
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what do you mean a lemon
Your problem is not so unique, it happens very often with new vehicles.
When I bought Agility, its disk brake was greased for some strange reason and the forks were unscrewed.
Both things are VERY dangerous. So, the first thing after purchase was - going straight to the shop.
My People had factory error in engine casing and very soon engine casing had to be replaced under warranty.
13 years ago I bought a brand new car that consumed 50% more than it should (I had another similar car, I gave this one back to the shop for testing, they proved it etc.) However, they were not able to fix it, and I endured this for 5 years and then sold it away.
There are a number of similar horror stories about much more expensive things than little bike or entry level car I had: it happens with sports and high class limos too.
Last year I bought a new car and I do not have big problems with it, but it shudders when starting in 1st gear (some issue with injection probably). During 1st service the shop did not do anything to fix this because when they read ECU memory with the tester, there is no error logged and if there is no such error, they do not investigate further.
Unfortunately, we live in a consumer society formed around debt and things you could have expected 30 or 40 years ago buying durable goods do not apply anymore. This refers to warranty, customer care and many other things.
I know you will not be consoled by my words, but I said many times on this forum that Kymco is not a hyper-quality bike as it is touted to be. Far from that. The problem is that I do not know what should be the premium brand anymore, which brand would be better? 20 or 30 years ago there would be a reliable scale to determine that, but not anymore. However, from my own experience and driving Italian and Chinese vehicles, it is much, much better, but not so good that it does not have flaws like you are experiencing.
p.s. "A lemon" is a synonim for "a dud", badly assembled product.
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Sadly, axy is right. Those lemons can leave a sour taste in your mouth...
But not all problems that can occur on a bike early in it's life are indicative or definitive of having a lemon on your hands. A faulty CDI unit or a bad jet would not necessarily mean your bike is bad. Both are easily replaced. Faulty or defective parts can occur when products are produced in massive quantities. We do hope, grantourismo, that you do not have to entertain any notion of Bureaucratic Crap!! :)
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Your problem is not so unique, it happens very often with new vehicles.
p.s. "A lemon" is a synonim for "a dud", badly assembled product.
HOLY SHXT so you are saying if the dealer decided to label it lemon then I just gotta accept I got
a sh** bike ?
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Many states have "Lemon Laws" that could requirer them to take it back.
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The model scooter hubby and I purchased in '07 (new) had a recall on the marker lights before we bought it. We picked it up in February '07! The dealer said he didn't have any info on a recall or any other scooters with this problem. BUT, the gent at Kymco in Carolina says just about all the 200S from 07 had the same problem! I lost all faith in my dealer at that point. Seek another opinion and call in the manufacturer.
Back in '89 I bought a ford tempo (new) and it started stalling when I let off the accel for a stop sign or light. I returned it several times to the dealer to no avail, even had Mr. smell good from Michigan at the dealership in his linen suit in the shop checking it out. It took me mentioning my issue at bowling league one night, when one of the guy's spoke up and said his wife's friend's sisters car did the same thing......have them replace the wiring harness.....Bingo...car was perfect after that.
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The model scooter hubby and I purchased in '07 (new) had a recall on the marker lights before we bought it. We picked it up in February '07! The dealer said he didn't have any info on a recall or any other scooters with this problem. BUT, the gent at Kymco in Carolina says just about all the 200S from 07 had the same problem! I lost all faith in my dealer at that point. Seek another opinion and call in the manufacturer.
In most cases, manufacturer does not want to deal directly with customers.
That`s why the dealers (should be?) are there.
Whenever there is something serious and not trivial, there will be a ping-pong game between rightfully disgruntled customer, dealer and manufacturer and they will both try to avoid responsiblity.
Car forums are full of horror stories.
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same think happen to me . best think is to stay strong and know your rights.You should not have to spent a penny more to get it fixed, go for a new bike and dont let theam charge you a time for anything. kymcos are good bikes but when it comes to bussnes like this they suck.
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What state or country are you in GT?
We assume you are int he US but several of the replies are from posters outside the USA.
"Lemon Laws" are the common terms for a group of consumer protection laws.
Here is sample from the California Office of the Attorney General
http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.php (http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.php)
Consumers
MOTOR VEHICLE WARRANTY AND LEMON LAW
New Protections For Consumers Buying New & Used Cars
A purchaser or lessee of a motor vehicle has various rights under both state and federal law if the vehicle does not perform as provided under an express warranty. Warranty law can be complex, and it is impossible to describe comprehensively all of the law in a brief space. The following comments briefly explain the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act and what is popularly known as the "Lemon Law."
This message is not a substitute for your contacting your own lawyer who can best advise you of your rights under the particular circumstances of your case. The Attorney General's office cannot advise you of your legal rights and cannot represent you in a warranty dispute.
1.
Coverage For New Motor Vehicles.
1.
OVERVIEW OF SONG-BEVERLY WARRANTY RIGHTS
The Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act (beginning with Civil Code section 1790) provides protection for consumers who lease or buy new motor vehicles. The law requires that if the manufacturer or its representative in this state, such as an authorized dealer, is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle to meet the terms of an express written warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts, the manufacturer is required promptly to replace the vehicle or return the purchase price to the lessee or buyer. The purchase price that must be returned includes the price paid for manufacturer-installed items and transportation but does not include the price paid for nonmanufacturer items installed by the dealer. The lessee or buyer is completely free to choose whether to accept a replacement or a refund. Whatever the choice, the manufacturer is also responsible to pay for sales or use tax; license, registration, and other official fees; and incidental damages that the lessee or buyer may have incurred such as finance charges, repair, towing, and rental car costs.
The lessee or buyer may be charged for the use of the vehicle regardless of whether the vehicle is replaced or the purchase price is refunded. The amount that may be charged for use is determined by multiplying the actual price of the new vehicle by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the vehicle before it was first brought in for correction of the problem. For example, if the car had traveled 6,000 miles before it was first brought in for correction of the problem, the lessee or buyer could be charged 5% (6,000/120,000 = 5%) of the purchase price for usage.
The law applies for the entire period of your warranty. For example, if your vehicle is covered by a three-year warranty and you discover a defect after two years, the manufacturer will have to replace the vehicle or reimburse you as outlined above if the manufacturer or its representative is unable to conform the vehicle to the express warranty after a reasonable number of attempts to do so.
Song-Beverly does not apply if the problem was caused by abuse after the vehicle was delivered. Be sure you follow the terms of the warranty for maintenance and proper use of the vehicle.
Although there is a four-year statute of limitations to bring a law suit for breach of warranty or for violations of Song-Beverly, you should act promptly to try to resolve the problem fairly and quickly without legal action if possible.
2.
THE "LEMON LAW" AND WHAT IS A REASONABLE NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS
What is considered a reasonable number of repair attempts will depend on the circumstances including the seriousness of the defect. For example, one or two repair attempts may be considered reasonable for serious safety defects such as brake failure, depending on the exact situation.
A special provision, often called the "Lemon Law," helps determine what is a reasonable number of repair attempts for problems that substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle. The "Lemon Law" applies to these problems if they arise during the first 18 months after the consumer received delivery of the vehicle or within the first 18,000 miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first. During the first 18 months or 18,000 miles, the "Lemon Law" presumes that a manufacturer has had a reasonable number of attempts to repair the vehicle if either (1) The same problem results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the problem has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (2) The same problem has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.
The "Lemon Law" presumption is a guide, not an absolute rule. A judge or arbitrator can assume that the manufacturer has had a reasonable number of chances to repair the vehicle if all of the conditions are met. The manufacturer, however, has the right to try to prove that it should have the chance to attempt additional repairs, and the consumer has the right to show that fewer repair attempts are reasonable under the circumstances.
Be sure to check your warranty and owner's manual for instructions. You may be required to directly notify the manufacturer of the problem(s). It is a good idea to send your written notice to the manufacturer at the address shown in the warranty or owner's manual by certified mail, return receipt requested so that you have proof that your letter was received. Keep a copy of all correspondence.
If the manufacturer maintains a state-certified arbitration program, the consumer must submit the warranty dispute to the arbitration program before the consumer can take advantage of the presumption in court. Arbitration is an alternative to court proceedings. The consumer may assert the presumption during arbitration. Information about any arbitration should be described in the warranty or owner's manual.
Not every manufacturer maintains a state certified program. You should check with the Department of Consumer Affairs' Arbitration Certification Program at (800) 952-5210 or on the Internet at www.dca.ca.gov/acp/ (http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/). You can also ask for the department's free pamphlet that explains more about arbitration, "Lemon Aid for Consumers."
3.
WHO IS COVERED
The law applies to a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family or household purposes. The law also applies to a new motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight under 10,000 pounds that is bought or used primarily for business purposes by a person, including a partnership, limited liability company, corporation, association, or any other legal entity, to which not more than five motor vehicles are registered in this state.
4.
WHAT IS A NEW MOTOR VEHICLE
The law discussed above applies to "new motor vehicles." (Certain limited protection may apply to used vehicles as described in Section 2.) The term "new motor vehicle" includes not only new motor vehicles but also demonstrators; the chassis, chassis cab, and propulsion system of a new motor home; and any other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty. For example, a two-year old used car sold with the remaining one year portion of a manufacturer's three-year new car warranty would be treated as a new motor vehicle. The term "new motor vehicle," however, does not include motorcycles or exclusively off-road vehicles.
2.
Coverage For Vehicles That Are Not "New"
Although the special provisions discussed above apply to new motor vehicles, Song-Beverly has many general rules that apply to any consumer product sold with an express written warranty. As a result, there is important coverage for motorcycles, the living quarters of a mobile home, used vehicles sold with a dealer's express written warranty, "lemon" vehicles repurchased by the manufacturer and sold to consumers with an express written warranty covering the defect, and vehicles sold with a service contract.
A full description of warranty rights is beyond the scope of this message, but you should be aware that coverage is not identical to the coverage for new motor vehicles. For example, a warrantor who is unable to conform a consumer product to its express warranty within a reasonable number of attempts is required to replace the goods or refund the purchase price less an amount attributable to the consumer's use. Unlike the special rules on new motor vehicles, however, there is no set formula for determining the charge for the consumer's use before the discovery of the defect, and the Lemon Law presumption does not apply.
For complete advice concerning your legal rights, you should consult your own attorney.
Federal Safety Laws
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ (https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/)
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You are obviously dealing with a dealer who values his relationship with his manufacturer more than his relationship with you. The dealer who makes more money for the manufacturer will be taken care of by the manufacturer. Better pricing, availability of product, expansion of territory, etc. This is my opinion- I would take that bike back and request a different model, preferably one that is well-developed like the people series(200, 250, even 150). I think Kymco put out a product that is in a Beta stage still and something tells me that bike will see more trouble down the road, not less. What Axy said previously is correct,
''I know you will not be consoled by my words, but I said many times on this forum that Kymco is not a hyper-quality bike as it is touted to be. Far from that. The problem is that I do not know what should be the premium brand anymore, which brand would be better? 20 or 30 years ago there would be a reliable scale to determine that, but not anymore. However, from my own experience and driving Italian and Chinese vehicles, it is much, much better, but not so good that it does not have flaws like you are experiencing.''
In my opinion, you bought a bike that is still under development and/or has manufacturing issues. Kymco made their fortune selling relatively low-priced scooters, not motorcycles. They make a darn good scooter. I also would bet they did not develop much of the design in the quannon. IMO, take the motorcycle back and trade it for a scooter. They make a pretty good scooter. I would bet Kymco sells 300 scooters for every motorcycle. It's what they do. It's what they are good at. If you want a small motorcyle buy a kawasaki ninja 250. You may lose money now but I would personally have a reliable scoot any day than a bitchy motorcycle.
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No, I think if the dealer decides to label it a lemon, it lets him out of the responsibility of having to keep on trying to fix it. It goes back to the manufacturer and dealer gets his money so he's happy and able to satisfy you with another model or money back.
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I got an e mail from dealer
He says he is done a thorough check and fix , confident to return the bike.
He did check on test riding starting cold and hot for a week he believes there is no problem now.
Just finger cross to get the bike back and it will not fail on me.
I do appreciate you guyz opinion on getting exchange but it is hard to deal with those dealers beside christmas is coming
and I am doing a 6 days a week job , so I just hope nothing goes wrong.
It is really shxty to think that since when buying a vehicle become a gamble ?
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Buying the first year model of any mechanical unit has and will always be a bit more of a gamble than usual . Just make sure to keep all pertainent documentation for future reference and hope you don't need it . Good luck .
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GT, if I were you I would demand a full explanation in writing of what was done to the bike since the dealer has
A: acknowledged that the bike needed repairs and that these repairs cost you the use of the bike for the period of the repairs and
B: The mechanical problems of your bike left you stranded at 11 pm at least once and has caused you apparently a lot of emotional distress, not to mention time and effort (and money) in resolving the problem.
Juice wrote
Buying the first year model of any mechanical unit has and will always be a bit more of a gamble than usual . Just make sure to keep all pertainent documentation for future reference and hope you don't need it . Good luck .
I did not realise that this is the first year the Quannon was produced. I would never buy a first year release of any vehicle and at this point would demand a trade-in on a new scooter. Your troubles may just be starting. I hope someone else has a rosier outlook than I. I could be wrong. You need to know in writing what was done to that bike.