KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: moparkid on April 11, 2022, 01:39:21 PM
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Well after 60,000 miles my sweet baby has decided to leave me stranded by the side of the road. Today I did a full blown maintenance of the bike...oil and filter, tranny fluid, air filter replacement and valve adjustment. Got out on the road and it was performing better than ever....that should have been a red flag right there!
An hour into the ride she started cutting out and then she died. Would not restart immediately but after sitting for about 20 minutes started right up but would die after a minute or so. Managed to get it back home and this morning it started right up but died after 3 minutes and wouldnt start again. But an hour later started right up, but then again died after a minute or so. Sounds like a fuel problem to me but have no idea where to begin.
I know you'll read this Karl and I await your expertise!
Thank you!
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I'm not Karl, but I DO owe him some $~!
So, anyway - I remember reading two issues related to your symptoms:
Karl's famous vent the gas cap thing to prevent vacuum forming in the tank and fuel no longer passing to the engine.
And....something about an electrical part was failing - evidenced by the part over-heating and the needing to cool before the scoot would run again.
Fingers crossed it's just the tank forming a vacuum. Easy fix.
Stig
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I'm not Karl, but I DO owe him some $~!
So, anyway - I remember reading two issues related to your symptoms:
Karl's famous vent the gas cap thing to prevent vacuum forming in the tank and fuel no longer passing to the engine.
And....something about an electrical part was failing - evidenced by the part over-heating and the needing to cool before the scoot would run again.
Fingers crossed it's just the tank forming a vacuum. Easy fix.
Stig
Sorry Stig, but I think it may be the latter. Be strange for the tank vent issue only to start after 60,000 miles? I experienced it virtually from new!
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Sorry Stig, but I think it may be the latter. Be strange for the tank vent issue only to start after 60,000 miles? I experienced it virtually from new!
I agree - maybe something changed with the gas cap (gasket, or?)....seems unlikely true enough.
Stig
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Stig was right! First thought that popped in my pea brain! Like he said, quick and easy to verify or rule out: have your second key in the gas cap and when she starts to stumble, stall or quit, quickly open the gas cap. It will pick right back up if it is vacuum vent. Sumptin' else if it does not.
I can see it happening from brand new to 60000 miles or anything in between.
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Well it's not a gas cap issue, I used second key, started bike and opened gas cap and bike still died....is there a fuel filter somewhere I do not know about? Plug gap is good, although the plug cable is loose, it has never been a problem before but will order new spark plug cap as a precautionary.
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Well it's not a gas cap issue, I used second key, started bike and opened gas cap and bike still died....is there a fuel filter somewhere I do not know about? Plug gap is good, although the plug cable is loose, it has never been a problem before but will order new spark plug cap as a precautionary.
Have you checked the spark? Cycled the run/stop switch? Cycled the side stand?
Done all that? Then you may have some snot in the injector. It may not be the easiest thing to eliminate but is do-able. The first phase is easy: just pull the injector out while leaving it connected to fuel and wiring. Prop it so you can see what sprays out when you try starting (it won't start, just crank it over a couple of turns). The spray should be a fine mist each tome it squirts.
Back flush it on the bike or take it to a shop that specializes in cleaning Bosch or Honda injectors. Back flush on bike is simply remove from fuel hose and stick the spray head in the fuel hose and tighten the clamp. Catch the dribbles in a small cup you can see through. Have your charger handy 'cause you gonna do several start sequences to get much out.
I suggest this only because it worked for me when I just KNEW it was not a vent issue: I had vented the cap! And opened it! And I had no codes.
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Not sure what you mean by "cycled run/stop, side stand but will go thru my DT repair manual and find out about those things and will do it. Thank you Karl.
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Not sure what you mean by "cycled run/stop, side stand but will go thru my DT repair manual and find out about those things and will do it. Thank you Karl.
Cycled: on-off-on-off check with ohmeter for good or funky contact. Same, same with side stand switch. There IS an unused plug down by that side stand switch that lets you bypass the switch entirely.
There is another question about HOW the engine quits: does it stop all of a sudden? Does it just kinda fade in power til it quits? Or does it on again, off again..?
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It just quits...its almost like it runs out of gas. I am going to check the injector in the morning and then maybe empty the tank and see if maybe I got bad gas...I usually always buy my gas at the usual place for sake of continuity but last fill up was done at a different place...a mom and pop joint and it was still a full tank when it started acting up.
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My guess is that something is wrong with valve clearance job. Maybe tolerances are bad, and get worse when engine heats up.
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My guess is that something is wrong with valve clearance job. Maybe tolerances are bad, and get worse when engine heats up.
Ordinarily I’d agree, but OP states valve adjustment done.
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I am actually going to readjust the valves as that was the first time I ever did that. And its my belief that just because it says .04 (.10mm) doesnt necessarily mean its carved in stone, and maybe like all older hot rods you adjust more by "feel and ear" than by the book.
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I am actually going to readjust the valves as that was the first time I ever did that. And its my belief that just because it says .04 (.10mm) doesnt necessarily mean its carved in stone, and maybe like all older hot rods you adjust more by "feel and ear" than by the book.
.004"/.1 mm just to be certain! 60k miles, couldn't hoit!
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Hope this helps, it's step by step manual for valve clearance Kymco downtown 300i
https://imgur.com/a/4YtWVZV
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Hope this helps, it's step by step manual for valve clearance Kymco downtown 300i
https://imgur.com/a/4YtWVZV
That's it! Good description, good pitchurs! Take your time and enjoy! Lock nuts don't have to be super tight. Those are really fine threads plus that stuff is super hard.
While you are in there, inspect cam and roller surfaces and make sure the rollers roll!
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Might have solved the problem. Apparently while tightening down the lock nut the adjustment bolt also tightened past the point of the feeler gauge....shoulda double checked my work before reassembly. Battery drained so it will charge tonight and we'll have another go at it tomorrow! Live and learn aye....Will keep everyone in suspense for another day!
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Sounding promising though!
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Rechecked valve lash, triple checked! All is well there. Checked kickstand, unhooked it from system and bike would not even turn over so kickstand circuit is good. Checked injector, sprays while trying to twist her tail, so injector is good. Ran EFI self diagnosis check, all seems well. Not getting any strange lights on the dash. Starts, runs for 15-30 seconds and shuts off.....Could be faulty fuel pump? Seems that if it were electrical it would not even start or run. Unknown sensor I am unaware of?
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Rechecked valve lash, triple checked! All is well there. Checked kickstand, unhooked it from system and bike would not even turn over so kickstand circuit is good. Checked injector, sprays while trying to twist her tail, so injector is good. Ran EFI self diagnosis check, all seems well. Not getting any strange lights on the dash. Starts, runs for 15-30 seconds and shuts off.....Could be faulty fuel pump? Seems that if it were electrical it would not even start or run. Unknown sensor I am unaware of?
You did pretty well at eliminating usual suspects. Doubt an unkown sensor not showing a code.
You have a good idea about fuel pump. There would be no code by running out of fuel. Rig up a pressure gage on that line going to the injector and see if the pressure drops when engine quits. Have you checked voltage when either starting or running?
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Update:
Ran CELP self diagnosis after changing plug. Old plug's south end had been eaten away by faulty plug cap, which had been held on to the plug for years with a zip tie due to the fact I couldnt seem to get a new plug cap. Once installed bike ran until I shut it off. Then I ran CELP self test and am getting 06 and 09 reading which suggests faulty TPS and faulty MAP. Then I ran into an even greater problem...,.Kymcopartsonline has gone dark! Oh my....where will I ever get the needed parts???
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Update:
Ran CELP self diagnosis after changing plug. Old plug's south end had been eaten away by faulty plug cap, which had been held on to the plug for years with a zip tie due to the fact I couldnt seem to get a new plug cap. Once installed bike ran until I shut it off. Then I ran CELP self test and am getting 06 and 09 reading which suggests faulty TPS and faulty MAP. Then I ran into an even greater problem...,.Kymcopartsonline has gone dark! Oh my....where will I ever get the needed parts???
To clarify.....scooter now runs fine, in spite of seeing codes?!- - except you want to buy a new spark plug cap?
Would one of the many NGK park plug caps sold on amazon and eBay work?
Stig
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No Stig, my bad. After putting in new plug, bike ran until I shut it off....Then tried to restart, ran 30 seconds and shut off....I think having a corroded half eaten south end of old plug prevented CELP from operating as it should. Once I tried to restart then the CELP light flashed 6, then 9 times. Ran it three times and it still spit out 6 and 9. I might be mistaken by what my meaning of plug cap is...my meaning should be spark plug "boot" and not cap, as in threaded piece on south end of plug. I found Powersportswarehouse has kymco parts and ordered a new MAP, TPS sensor and a coil ignition assy. I hope I have clarified previous post.
Well it looks like Powersportswarehouse is no longer stocking kymco parts.....guess I might have to go to Taiwan and get the parts huh...... :-\
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No Stig, my bad. After putting in new plug, bike ran until I shut it off....Then tried to restart, ran 30 seconds and shut off....I think having a corroded half eaten south end of old plug prevented CELP from operating as it should. Once I tried to restart then the CELP light flashed 6, then 9 times. Ran it three times and it still spit out 6 and 9. I might be mistaken by what my meaning of plug cap is...my meaning should be spark plug "boot" and not cap, as in threaded piece on south end of plug. I found Powersportswarehouse has kymco parts and ordered a new MAP, TPS sensor and a coil ignition assy. I hope I have clarified previous post.
Well it looks like Powersportswarehouse is no longer stocking kymco parts.....guess I might have to go to Taiwan and get the parts huh...... :-\
6 long then 9 short CELP flashes or 6 short pause 9 short? Bet it's both short. Have you tested both TPS and MAP as per service manual?
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All flashes were short and 06 with picture of engine and 09 with picture of engine shows up on dash. I have not tested either sensors, will get around to that tomorrow....baby steps...lol
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OK, waiting to hear what you find!
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Well after 60,000 miles my sweet baby has decided to leave me stranded by the side of the road. Today I did a full blown maintenance of the bike...oil and filter, tranny fluid, air filter replacement and valve adjustment. Got out on the road and it was performing better than ever....that should have been a red flag right there!
An hour into the ride she started cutting out and then she died. Would not restart immediately but after sitting for about 20 minutes started right up but would die after a minute or so. Managed to get it back home and this morning it started right up but died after 3 minutes and wouldnt start again. But an hour later started right up, but then again died after a minute or so. Sounds like a fuel problem to me but have no idea where to begin.
I know you'll read this Karl and I await your expertise!
Thank you!
My 2012 DT300 was just having the same issue and I was able to limp it home. The first thing I went for was the spark plug and immediately noticed that it wasnt very tight. I am the one who put it in there about 10,000 miles ago. It looked just fine so I put it back in, started it up and the problem was gone in my case.
I have 19,000 miles on mine.
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Finally made contact with someone in Taiwan who is going to get me my parts.....my only concern is the TPS on order is a 1614-868-0000 in the parts diagram but the one they are sending is a 1614-868-0000-S.....does anyone know what or why there would be a different part number? Would there be different TPS's for different countries?
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Finally made contact with someone in Taiwan who is going to get me my parts.....my only concern is the TPS on order is a 1614-868-0000 in the parts diagram but the one they are sending is a 1614-868-0000-S.....does anyone know what or why there would be a different part number? Would there be different TPS's for different countries?
Guessing don't KNOW) the "S" is different supplier. You will KNOW when you get the new one in a side-by-side comparison. Meanwhile, why don't you unplug the ECU, goober up the connector with silicone dielectric grease and plug it back in. Try your start-run-stop-start test again. Better yet, goober every electrical connector on the bike while at it!
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Are we talking removal of a lot of plastics to get to the ECU?
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Are we talking removal of a lot of plastics to get to the ECU?
No, if you have a 10mm flexible ratchet wrench you can reach through the hole above the right front fork.
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Are we talking removal of a lot of plastics to get to the ECU?
I can reach and feel the ECU up above the right fork leg, may be able to pull its plug but would never get the thing plugged back in!
Removing is a big deal the first time but it gets easier each time.
1. 5 bolts to remove windscreen
2. 1 screw to remove shiny black cover straight forward (mask alongside each side)
3. 8 screws and 2 nuts to remove nose piece
ECU on machine right. Just unplug. No need to remove from frame.
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Thank you all for your assistance, its most appreciated!
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Finally got my parts from Taiwan (TPS and MAP sensor) installed and the bike runs GREAT! Rode for 3 hours, no dying, started quickly everytime and runs so smooth but.....I still can't get CELP light to go off. Still says I am having problems with 06 (TPS) and 09 (MAP) but both those parts have been replaced with brand new factory fresh straight from Kymco of Taiwan. Any ideas....Bueller, Bueller!
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Finally got my parts from Taiwan (TPS and MAP sensor) installed and the bike runs GREAT! Rode for 3 hours, no dying, started quickly everytime and runs so smooth but.....I still can't get CELP light to go off. Still says I am having problems with 06 (TPS) and 09 (MAP) but both those parts have been replaced with brand new factory fresh straight from Kymco of Taiwan. Any ideas....Bueller, Bueller!
Yeah, you gotta do a TPS reset when you replace that thing. Then the code will go away. You can erase codes by disconnecting battery for 30 seconds to 30 minutes AFTER you do a reset.
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Finally got my parts from Taiwan (TPS and MAP sensor) installed and the bike runs GREAT! Rode for 3 hours, no dying, started quickly everytime and runs so smooth but.....I still can't get CELP light to go off. Still says I am having problems with 06 (TPS) and 09 (MAP) but both those parts have been replaced with brand new factory fresh straight from Kymco of Taiwan. Any ideas....Bueller, Bueller!
Had the same issue, engine light with codes 06 and 09 but started/ran normally. Caused by faulty a ECU. Replaced the ECU last year still 100% working.
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=30581#:~:text=After%20the%20wash%20there%20is%20still%20a%20engine%20light%20with%20error%20codes%2006%2C%2009%20and%2049