KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: ScooterWolf on March 06, 2022, 10:20:51 PM
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Hey everyone!
It's been while since I've posted here. My 2013 DT isn't starting. I suspect it's the battery but after placing it on a trickle charger and getting a fully charge reading it still fails to turn over. In the process of trying to get it to turn over I fear I may have damage the starter. Lately when I've tried again
on a warm day sometimes there's no activity when I push the start button.
Nothing.
I press the brake again, give a little gas on the throttle, and then the engine tires to start, but fails to turn over. Today I checked the battery within a digital multimeter and saw a good reading of about 12.75 volts.
If the battery is okay, should I suspect the starter, or look at other possibilities like the spark plug first?
Wolf
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Hey everyone!
It's been while since I've posted here. My 2013 DT isn't starting. I suspect it's the battery but after placing it on a trickle charger and getting a fully charge reading it still fails to turn over. In the process of trying to get it to turn over I fear I may have damage the starter. Lately when I've tried again
on a warm day sometimes there's no activity when I push the start button.
Nothing.
I press the brake again, give a little gas on the throttle, and then the engine tires to start, but fails to turn over. Today I checked the battery within a digital multimeter and saw a good reading of about 12.75 volts.
If the battery is okay, should I suspect the starter, or look at other possibilities like the spark plug first?
Wolf
No load battery votage looks really good BUT what is the voltage while cranking? It must be higher than 9.5 volts or you get no spark. I agree it is probably the battery BUT it could be something else.
I have had two identical 2013 DT300i scoots and typical of most Kymco electrical and start systems these are on the edge of being too light in capability.
Verify volts while cranking to start first. At least we can rule it out as a cause and look to plugged injector next.
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Verify volts while cranking to start first. At least we can rule it out as a cause and look to plugged injector next.
Thanks for the advice. By this I get a reading while trying to start it? The weather’s getting warmer this week, so hopefully this Tuesday I can give it another try.
Wolf
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Thanks for the advice. By this I get a reading while trying to start it? The weather’s getting warmer this week, so hopefully this Tuesday I can give it another try.
Wolf
Yes. Hook the volt meter to the battery or convenience outlet and observe what the reading is while it cranks over 3 to 5 revolutions.
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Yes. Hook the volt meter to the battery or convenience outlet and observe what the reading is while it cranks over 3 to 5 revolutions.
Thanks Karl. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Wolf
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I have had two identical 2013 DT300i scoots and typical of most Kymco electrical and start systems these are on the edge of being too light in capability.
Verify volts while cranking to start first. At least we can rule it out as a cause and look to plugged injector next.
Let's open a book. My money's on the battery being sub optimal, especially if it's more than 3 years old.
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Let's open a book. My money's on the battery being sub optimal, especially if it's more than 3 years old.
Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen! The race starts in five minutes! We have the favorite "Battery Babe" on the pole and "Bad Connection" as the long shot! Place yer bets!
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Battery.
Stig
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All right the test results are in. Tested the battery while trying to start the bike. The readings ran from 10.99 - 11.95. Looks like my battery isn’t holding a full charging.
Np problem on getting a new one, especially if this is the problem. Any recommendations?
- Wolf
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All right the test results are in. Tested the battery while trying to start the bike. The readings ran from 10.99 - 11.95. Looks like my battery isn’t holding a full charging.
Np problem on getting a new one, especially if this is the problem. Any recommendations?
- Wolf
No! Those voltages are GREAT if your meter ain't lying to you! Anything above 9.5 volts will produce a spark. It may be a good idea to get a new battery since yours is 3+ years old BUT your volts read while cranking tends to let the battery off the hook.
Personally, my next move would be to pull the spark plug and verify it is sparking. I am assuming you have already checked run/stop and side stand switches and that the tach and speedo and fuel pump do their dance.
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Personally, my next move would be to pull the spark plug and verify it is sparking. I am assuming you have already checked run/stop and side stand switches and that the tach and speedo and fuel pump do their dance.
For some reason I thought that a rating below 12.0 was bad for a battery. I’m not a mechanic so checking the fuel pump is outside my wheel house, but testing the spark plug seems do-able. What’s required to check it?
- Wolf
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For some reason I thought that a rating below 12.0 was bad for a battery. I’m not a mechanic so checking the fuel pump is outside my wheel house, but testing the spark plug seems do-able. What’s required to check it?
- Wolf
No load test of battery fully charged should be 12.6 volts.
Voltage while trying to start a DT300i MUST BE ABOVE 9.5 volts.
All right the test results are in. Tested the battery while trying to start the bike. The readings ran from 10.99 - 11.95. Looks like my battery isn’t holding a full charging.
Np problem on getting a new one, especially if this is the problem. Any recommendations?
- Wolf
Now which?
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I’ve heard checking for a bad spark plug may just require a visual inspection of the plug. If so, what are the signs of a bad one - soot, or blackened corrosion? Or are there other methods for testing it?
-Wolf
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I’ve heard checking for a bad spark plug may just require a visual inspection of the plug. If so, what are the signs of a bad one - soot, or blackened corrosion? Or are there other methods for testing it?
-Wolf
Not yet. Please clear up the voltage puzzle first....
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If that's a 9 yr old plug in there, I'd swing by your local auto parts store and buy a new one...should be about $7 or $8.
Stig
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Not yet. Please clear up the voltage puzzle first....
I checked the voltage for the battery when I tried to start it up. Though the engine didn’t turnover, the voltage read from 10.99 -11.95. I think you said that meant the battery is good. I can check the spark plug next, but if there are other voltage test that may be done I’m open to trying them too.
I have a feeling it may come down to a bad starter, but that’s just my gut feeling.
- Wolf
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I checked the voltage for the battery when I tried to start it up. Though the engine didn’t turnover, the voltage read from 10.99 -11.95. I think you said that meant the battery is good. I can check the spark plug next, but if there are other voltage test that may be done I’m open to trying them too.
I have a feeling it may come down to a bad starter, but that’s just my gut feeling.
- Wolf
Just so I understand, you pushed the start button but the starter did not spin the engine? That could be either the starter but more likely the little flidgit switches in either or both brake levers.
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Just so I understand, you pushed the start button but the starter did not spin the engine? That could be either the starter but more likely the little flidgit switches in either or both brake levers.
I think he said it tries to start = cranking?...but is not starting, "not turning over" he calls not starting.
I think.....
IS the starter spinning the engine but not starting and running the engine?
Stig
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I think he said it tries to start = cranking?...but is not starting, "not turning over" he calls not starting.
I think.....
IS the starter spinning the engine but not starting and running the engine?
Stig
Yes, that's exactly. what's happening. I hold the brake, press the start button, and hear the engine, but it doesn't fully start or turn over. That's what led me to think it was a battery problem. Checking it with a multimeters shows the battery has a good charge.
My other thoughts are the spark plug, or the starter itself could be bad.
- Wolf
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Yes, that's exactly. what's happening. I hold the brake, press the start button, and hear the engine, but it doesn't fully start or turn over. That's what led me to think it was a battery problem. Checking it with a multimeters shows the battery has a good charge.
My other thoughts are the spark plug, or the starter itself could be bad.
- Wolf
I am completely confused....
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I am completely confused....
Sorry. I’m probably not doing a good job of describing the problem. The bike is getting power from the battery, but the engine won’t fully start up. If the battery has a good charge based on the reading from my multimeter, then something else seems to be preventing it from fully starting up, and preventing the engine from running.
I’m far from a mechanic, so I can only guess as to what the problem may be. Could this be related to a bad spark plug, or something else?
- Wolf
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@Wolf, let me chime in here too...
Let's start with basics.
I assume side stand up, kill switch on, brake lights working, etc...
Seat and underseat compartement out.
-jump start cables from car (motor not running) or single proven good battery on your scoots battery terminals
-check out your fuses, TAKE THEM OUT and in
-does it start now,
YES/NO
YES, your scoot batt is done
NO, check your fat minus cables from your batt to its frame connection points for loose or corroded parts
RESULT?
If everything is fine with your minus cables
-change your sparkplug against a new one
-put it into sparkplug cap, full in, lay the plug against cylinder head
-ignition on, brake pulled, start switch pressed and you should see a spark on your plug
YES/NO
RESULT?
NO, we have to check your ignition coil/ cables, start relais, starter motor and so on.....
Let's see how it does.
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Can't see that these 2 have been checked out:
1) key on, brake pulled ....IS THE BRAKE LIGHT LIT WHEN PULLING THE BRAKE LEVER?
2) RED Kill Switch....on or off?
Seems his starter IS turning over the engine...but it is not starting.
Stig
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Can't see that these 2 have been checked out:
1) key on, brake pulled ....IS THE BRAKE LIGHT LIT WHEN PULLING THE BRAKE LEVER?
2) RED Kill Switch....on or off?
Seems his starter IS turning over the engine...but it is not starting.
Stig
Yep, all of that is covered. I've been riding for 12 years so starting the bike is second nature. I've had this problem before and it's pretty much come down to a bad battery. This doesn't seem to be the case now. With time and weather permitting I'll check the spark plug and fuses this weekend.
- Wolf
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Post a video of the start up.
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My DT is a 2013 model. Getting to the spark plug is more difficult than it should be unless I'm missing something. Finding and spotting it was pretty hard, and none of my ratchet sockets were successful in removing it, making me believe that a specific kind of tool is needed to do so.
Or am I missing something?
-Wolf
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My DT is a 2013 model. Getting to the spark plug is more difficult than it should be unless I'm missing something. Finding and spotting it was pretty hard, and none of my ratchet sockets were successful in removing it, making me believe that a specific kind of tool is needed to do so.
Or am I missing something?
-Wolf
You can get at that spark plug two ways:
1. Put bike on center stand, lay on your back on the floor and go in from the bottom.
2. Remove seat and tub and go in from the top.
You need to go in from the top if you are going to verify you are getting spark.
You need either a 5/8ths deep well plug socket or a 5/8ths/16 mm deep well socket.
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You can get at that spark plug two ways:
1. Put bike on center stand, lay on your back on the floor and go in from the bottom.
2. Remove seat and tub and go in from the top.
You need to go in from the top if you are going to verify you are getting spark.
You need either a 5/8ths deep well plug socket or a 5/8ths/16 mm deep well socket.
Thanks, and good to know. I’ll go in from the top as I already have the seat and tube removed. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
- Wolf
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Inspected the spark plug. It didn't look bad, but just to be sure I replaced it. Engine still won't turn over. I did inspect the fuses, and none of them were blown. However, my brake lights weren't coming on, nor were any of my lights flashing when I turned the hazard light switch on, so that's cause for concern.
My tank is about 2/3's filled, but the bike has been sitting for about a month since the last time I rode it. With the odd weather we've been having - warm days followed by freezing to below freezing ones, any chance there could be condensation/water in my tank?
I'll try get footage of string up the bike, hopefully by Tuesday
- Wolf
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Inspected the spark plug. It didn't look bad, but just to be sure I replaced it. Engine still won't turn over. I did inspect the fuses, and none of them were blown. However, my brake lights weren't coming on, nor were any of my lights flashing when I turned the hazard light switch on, so that's cause for concern.
My tank is about 2/3's filled, but the bike has been sitting for about a month since the last time I rode it. With the odd weather we've been having - warm days followed by freezing to below freezing ones, any chance there could be condensation/water in my tank?
I'll try get footage of string up the bike, hopefully by Tuesday
- Wolf
I need something cleared up, me being the OCD type: when you say the engine won't turn over that means to me when you push the start button all you get is silence, right?
The fact the brake light won't light tells me your brake switches are inoperative in both brake handles. They need to work or the starter won't spin. You can bypass them to prove whether this is the cause.
The spark plug would have nothing to do with this problem since assuming the starter won't spin the engine. I guess I was not the only one confused!
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I need something cleared up, me being the OCD type: when you say the engine won't turn over that means to me when you push the start button all you get is silence, right?
The fact the brake light won't light tells me your brake switches are inoperative in both brake handles. They need to work or the starter won't spin. You can bypass them to prove whether this is the cause.
The spark plug would have nothing to do with this problem since assuming the starter won't spin the engine. I guess I was not the only one confused!
When I try to start the engine - ignition key turned to 'on' - dashboard lit up, no engine light coming on -I turn the kill switch on, hold in the brake and push the starter button. I hear the engine begin to rev up, but the engine does not fully turnover to be running. Just the sound of the engine trying to start up, but that's it.
Even if I give it a little gas it still won't fully come on.
* Battery seems to be fine.
* Fuse aren't blown
I last rode the bike about a month a go with no problems, but about two weeks after that I tried to start it again. When it failed I put it on a trickle charger. When the battery was fully charaged, despite that, it's been in the current state that I describe above.
- Wolf
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I just put it back on the trickle charger as it occurred to me that the battery may be low again from all of the staring attempts I've tried. The charger's giving a red light to indicate a low charge, so hopefully I'll know in a few hours.
- Wolf
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I just put it back on the trickle charger as it occurred to me that the battery may be low again from all of the staring attempts I've tried. The charger's giving a red light to indicate a low charge, so hopefully I'll know in a few hours.
- Wolf
How old is your battery?
If it is the original Kymco battery from 2013.....!
Stig
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When I try to start the engine - ignition key turned to 'on' - dashboard lit up, no engine light coming on -I turn the kill switch on, hold in the brake and push the starter button. I hear the engine begin to rev up, but the engine does not fully turnover to be running. Just the sound of the engine trying to start up, but that's it.
Even if I give it a little gas it still won't fully come on.
* Battery seems to be fine.
* Fuse aren't blown
I last rode the bike about a month a go with no problems, but about two weeks after that I tried to start it again. When it failed I put it on a trickle charger. When the battery was fully charaged, despite that, it's been in the current state that I describe above.
- Wolf
Okay, so the starter DOES turn the engine over...
When you had the spark plug out, did you lay it on the engine with the plug wire on the plug and spin the engine with the starter and SEE a spark?
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Okay, so the starter DOES turn the engine over...
When you had the spark plug out, did you lay it on the engine with the plug wire on the plug and spin the engine with the starter and SEE a spark?
Thank you. I will try that next. The battery is still charging at the moment, so I’ll give it a shot in the morning.
- Wolf
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NO brakelight ON, NO FIRING UP.
If you pull your brakelevers and ignition is on, there should be your brakelight lit....
-IF NOT, pull off this small cables from your brakelight switches and connect them by a short piece of wire or whatever metallic...
-ignition on, is your brakelight on?
-igntion on, brakelight on, push start button
Does is fire up now?
IF YES, your brakelight switches need to be renewd.
Hazard lights might be a different story...
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Got her started!
With all of my thoughts about possible water in the gas tank (among other crazy theories) It occurred to me that there could be a vapor lock problem with the tank. Over the past few weeks the weather in our area has been up and down with warm mid 70F days followed by low 40 to upper 30s. I’ve never had a vapor lock problem before, but there’s always a first time. So I went out to my garage, and unlocked the gas cap.
Sure enough I could feel a gout of air being released. I tried to start it up and it sounded like it was really close to turning over. Pusher out of my garage I pushed up and down the lane behind my house and tried to start her up again, and yes - she turned over!
Somethings are still odd. The back brake control doesn’t activate the brake lights, but the front one does. Also, I have to hold in the front brake control while hitting the starter button to turn her on. Before I could do this while holding the back brake control and hitting the starter switch. This allowed me to easily give it gas if needed to start the engine. I just completed a 25 minute ride to see how everything is running. The bike felt amazing, no different than it felt before it was too cold to ride last earl December.
With it being starting now I can take her in for my annual Spring tune up and see if the control systems may have defaulted to a factory settling, or if there is a faulty wire or contact somewhere.
Anyway, who knew the bike just needed a good fart to get her started. Regardless, thank you everyone for your kind suggestions and advice.
- Wolf
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@Wolf, your left brake-lever-switch needs to be checked or renewd.
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I had the same problem with the DT300 I owned: both brake light/starter switches eventually stopped working due to excess current passing through their micro switch contacts, causing arcing, pitting and eventually failure to conduct electricity.
After you replace the burned out switch I recommend you replace the incandescent brake bulb with an LED, which will draw 80% less current and thereby not burn out those switches, which obviously are inadequate for the job.
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Good advice Stuo, and Ruffus. These will be the first points I will talk about when I take the bike in for her tune up.
- Wolf
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I had the same problem with the DT300 I owned: both brake light/starter switches eventually stopped working due to excess current passing through their micro switch contacts, causing arcing, pitting and eventually failure to conduct electricity.
After you replace the burned out switch I recommend you replace the incandescent brake bulb with an LED, which will draw 80% less current and thereby not burn out those switches, which obviously are inadequate for the job.
The truth be known, the proper design would have put those switches controlling a RELAY instead of a high current lamp filament! An LED replacement is anvexcellent suggestion.
Wolf, you have described a situation of vacuum operated fuel tank vent vave sticking. That "whoosh" was air entering the fuel tank. Because that valve is stuck shut. It sticking is intermittent. Happens on many modern brands annd is not model specific. Had it happen first on a Buddy 150, Yager 200i and two(2) DT300i.
My solution is to vent the gas cap. The valve is so buried on a DT300i that venting the cap is way easier. I made a post with pictures way back. The "Stall of Shame" was coined by the Buddy forum.
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Not a major point....but EFI starts are best accomplished by never touching the throttle.
Glad it's running 🏃
Stig