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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

Title: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 12:53:23 AM
Picked up some tools today...FINALLY!

Got the axle nut, spacer, wheel, speedometer gear, etc. off. So how do I get the wheel bearings out??

(Please don't tell me I need ANOTHER special tool.)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 01:12:05 AM
Wish I could help you there...

Never took apart the front wheel yet.

Hopefully someone here has done so.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:18:45 AM
Thanks, oswaldters. Yeah, I'm hoping someone's gonna have a good idea.

Scooter folks are creative people!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:19:34 AM
...i'd refer you to the service manual...

..it's pretty much straight forward...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 01:20:58 AM
What tools did you pick up?

Can't imagine you'd need anything special to get them out, but I could be wrong...and too often am!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:22:41 AM
..a hammer and a brass drift...i'd get 'm out!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:23:11 AM
...i'd refer you to the service manual...

Shhhh!!!

The manual talks about a "Bearing Puller."

There's got to be another way...right??




Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:24:15 AM
..a hammer and a brass drift...i'd get 'm out!!

LOL...what's a "brass drift"? Another special tool?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: blue on October 24, 2010, 01:25:24 AM
o my you got some work to do you sure you need to go that far a new rim would be cheaper
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:25:49 AM
It's just a basic set, oswaldters, wrenches, sockets, screwdrier bits, stuff like that. It was the 19mm wrench and the hammer that finally got that axle nut!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:27:38 AM
o my you got some work to do you sure you need to go that far a new rim would be cheaper
Wow, a new rim would be cheaper than greasing or replacing the wheel bearings, blue?

I know nothing about bearing, lol.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:27:59 AM
LOL...what's a "brass drift"? Another special tool?

..lol..no, just a piece of brass...small enough that you could tap the outer race of the bearing, thru the opposite side...



..or a bearing puller, which isa tool...and a very effective one!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 01:32:08 AM
..or a bearing puller

Oh, another special tool.

Hope you can avoid that! 

Might be MacGyver time to figure out a way to get those out!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 01:32:26 AM
Now that the wheel is off where could you take it to have the bearings checked ?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:32:57 AM
Dammit...I gots no tools!

Where can I find a piece of brass? Lol.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:34:30 AM
..a screwdriver will work if you're carefull...

 ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:36:54 AM
Now that the wheel is off where could you take it to have the berrings checked ?

This is a good idea, juice. I don't have a clue where to go. Bearings are like a foreign word to me. And...I gave up my last hidden roll of dimes at the pawn shop for the tools. :(

I'm trying so hard to get everything apart so I can know what I need to buy before payday gets here. If I don't order what I need ON payday, the money will be gone. It's rotten, but it's just the way it is right now.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:38:46 AM
How you mean?

That would have to be a loooong screwdriver. Or you mean in the same end I'm trying to get it out from?

Careful? I ALWAYS start out intending to be careful...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:41:53 AM
That would have to be a loooong screwdriver

..??..

..the bearings are only like..3" or so apart....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 01:45:28 AM
Oh , you are speaking of the steering not the wheel bearings . My bad .
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:48:44 AM
Oh , you are speaking of the steering not the wheel bearings . My bad


..mine too!!!!

..thot we were talking about wheel bearings...dang....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:50:43 AM
NO...it's the wheel bearings. Sorry, my fault!! I might have a screwdriver that size. LOL

Been a long week here.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 01:54:11 AM
...well a screwdriver ain't the BEST tool to use to punch out a bearing....

..did you look at the service manual???
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:56:03 AM
Yeah, it showed a really cool "special tool" that gets the job done fast and easy...and that costs more money.  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 01:56:59 AM
I'm gonna get it, though. Might as well try, I've come this far...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 02:06:25 AM
I have heard of people using sockets for a socket wrench to punch out old bearings . Just find one with the right diameter and a hammer ....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 02:08:16 AM
I have heard of people using sockets for a socket wrench to punch out old bearings . Just find one with the right diameter and a hammer ....

Now that's what I'm talking about! 

Start the MacGyver theme music!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 24, 2010, 02:08:46 AM
I have heard of people using sockets for a socket wrench to punch out old bearings . Just find one with the right diameter and a hammer ....

Yep, Been there done that.  Works great.  But heck I've got a lot of sockets to select from.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 02:12:04 AM
..the delima is, that you must either PULL a bearing from at least ONE SIDE...before you can socket out the other...


..the bearings remove outward from the front wheel..

..a "bearing puller" will work BEST!!


peace
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 24, 2010, 02:21:04 AM
You can probably "rent" a bearing puller from Autozone.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 02:22:10 AM
Rianna , almost any shop -auto , small engine , m/c will have a bearing puller and would probably not charge much to pull a couple of bearings if you brought them the wheel . Might be worth a couple of calls .
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 02:25:36 AM
would probably not charge much to pull a couple of bearings if you brought them the whee

..if a lady came walking into my shop asking me to replace a cpl scooter wheel bearings..

..id do it for free...

...5 minute job if you have the wheel in hand...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 02:29:03 AM
Or 
3-Jaw Pilot Bearing Puller
Item #4876

Only:$16.99
Harbor freight
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 02:32:24 AM
Well, broke the top of the plastic off of one screwdriver.  ::)

I'm gettin' nowhere fast. The largest socket I have is a 21mm, but I don't know if it will fit. I gotta find me a skinnier screwdriver or something.

Thanks for all the tips.

Biggest problem is...come payday...I can't afford tools AND parts.

Thanks, juice. I think there's a tire shop a few miles away. Might have to look up the name of the place if I need to do that.

Pedro, I will check out Autozone's loan-a-tool program, see if bearing puller is on the list! That would be great!!

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 02:39:11 AM
Which one? There's so many...

Would one of these work?
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=pullersUniversal (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=pullersUniversal)

Or maybe one of these?
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=pullersSpecialized (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=pullersSpecialized)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 02:41:33 AM
...have somebody hold the wheel down, on a flat surface...

..insert 2-jawed..(small i.d. inner race of bearing) into the bearing's hole (inner race)...adjust the collet so that arms spread out as far as they can and are snug, with very little free play...

..pull upward briskly, perpendicular to the plane of the bearing..."straight up"!!!

..the bearing will "pop" out like magic....


..itsa true story!!

 ;)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 02:51:06 AM
Sounds easy enough.

So which one of those pullers is the one that will work??

Or should I just proudly carry my tire with me on the two buses to the Autozone store and ask the fella behind the counter for his suggestion?  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 02:57:42 AM
So which one of those pullers is the one that will work??

.none of them...

those are 2-5 ton pullers!!...

....i reckon imma try to google a 1/2"  I.D. inside bearing puller...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 02:58:46 AM
lol, sorry I'm such a pain...thank you, wordslinger!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:00:17 AM
This one too big, too then, right??

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=clutch (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/inourstores/lat/latLanding.jsp?bodyContent=clutch)

I'm goin' to look for another screwdriver.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 03:03:32 AM
...i reckon i don't see anything at their sight...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 03:05:10 AM
..NAPA might come closer...

..but MSC online or MCMaster Carr will be the best bets...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 03:10:06 AM
I'm goin' to look for another screwdriver.

Don't break all your new tools in one day!

Good luck
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:13:24 AM
..NAPA might come closer...

..but MSC online or MCMaster Carr will be the best bets...


Yeah, those were loaner tools. I don't have the money to buy one. I give up for tonight. Tomorrow is another day.

Thanks, though!! :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: juice on October 24, 2010, 03:14:07 AM
Look at the part # from harbor freight . You need a small inside diameter puller like the one I referenced .
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:14:34 AM
Don't break all your new tools in one day!

Nah, I didn't buy a screwdriver...maybe I should have, though!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:15:49 AM
Look at the part # from harbor freight . You need a small inside diameter puller like the one I referenced .

Thanks, juice. Checking it out now.  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:22:24 AM
Huh, well it says it works on cars, trucks, motorcycles, bicycles, tractors. Seems like Autozone would carry the same thing.

Well, I guess they probably do, but maybe they'd rather sell it than loan it.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 24, 2010, 03:28:32 AM
...i reckon imma try to google a 1/2"  I.D. inside bearing puller...

So do you know if the I.D. 1/2" or less?

That one 3-jaw puller at Harbor Freight says that it "Removes all sleeve-type bearings between 3/4" and 1-1/2" (19mm - 38mm) inside diameter quickly and easily."

So it wouldn't work if the I.D. is smaller than 3/4".

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:33:47 AM
Well, my eyes are gettin' tired and I already turned the overhead lights off, but in the dim light it looks like 1/2" or around 10mm or so. Might work. I'll have to get an accurate measurement tomorrow to be sure.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 24, 2010, 03:35:46 AM
..that'd probly work...not sure of the diameter...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 03:40:05 AM
Yeah, it might, can't afford it either, lol.

I'll get a more accurate measurement tomorrow, though.

Thanks All!!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 24, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
My local Advance Auto Parts store rented me a puller.  Their policy is they refund all the money when you bring the tool back.  Put it on credit card and they re-credit the card when tool is brought back. 

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 24, 2010, 07:37:24 PM
Thanks, Hoolander! My son said he is going to take me to Autozone when he goes out today. Advance is a little farther, but if he has to go near there, may check it out too and compare policies.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 01:38:52 AM
I got nowhere with either place today.

The man at Advance Auto said, "No, there's no special tool to get these things out." I mentioned seeing many different many pullers online but not knowing what size or kind would be needed and he said, "Well, if there is a tool for it, I don't have any. You should take these to the Honda place or the place beside it - the local Kymco dealer - because I'm sure they won't charge much to take out the old ones and put new ones in for you." Ha

The man at Autozone said, "No there's no special tool to take these things out of here, only for putting them in. You just punch it out, but I don't know about this spacer here or how to do it without damaging it." I tried to be patient and I flipped the tire over and said, "Oh, okay, so what do you think about this side here?" And he looked and said, "Oh this is the same thing, you just push it out from the other end." So...I asked him, "Well, how should I get the first side out so I can get to the second side?"

Anyway, they both seemed perplexed about how to take the spacer out and they didn't think they had any appropriate tools to loan or sell. They both also said that the dust seal on one side looks messed up a bit, but then they said it should be "fine". Who knows. I tried to get a pic of it, but my camera batteries died. So...I suppose that Sunday evening might not be the best time to go into the auto parts store here or something. There's only 2 people in each store and they didn't seem to know much that would help me out. I got a headache and gave up...lol.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 25, 2010, 01:41:13 AM
That's not encouraging at all...

There clearly are special tools for pulling them out so makes you wonder what kind of people they are hiring.

Then again, I ask the same question every time I ask a question at Home Depot.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 01:46:02 AM
Oh, so it's not just where I live, oswaldters? I wanna move to a place where folks are more customer-service oriented! Seems like everywhere you go here folks want to make you come back 2 or 3 times to get things done...like gas is free and folks got all the time in the world or something...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on October 25, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
It's very hard to find good customer service these days - especially at the chain stores. 

I don't think these people actually know much about what they're selling. 

Generally I've had better luck at local businesses that have people who actually know something.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 25, 2010, 01:58:47 AM
Rianna, I missed the part where you determined your wheel bearings were at fault.  Do they have play?  Do they make grinding noises or hit "rough spots" or "bumps"? 
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 02:11:32 AM
No, Hoolander, you didn't miss it. I was just wanting to take a look and maybe add some grease while I have the wheel off.

My little finger fits in there and they both seem to turn without catching or anything. They do look a tiny bit off center to me. Maybe they are supposed to be this way? I dunno. I tried to take a couple of pics. Some of them didn't take because my camera batteries were low, but I could try to post a couple and see if it shows what I mean.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 02:13:30 AM
Here's another one.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 02:14:28 AM
And one more.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 25, 2010, 02:18:54 AM
There's also some damage, from tools maybe or something else, on the part in the middle that stays on the rim when you take the rotor off. I think it was in that first pic that came out so blurry. I was trying to get a clear shot of it. Don't know if that would actually interfere with anything, though.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 25, 2010, 05:19:50 PM
At first, the first blurry pic makes it look like the bearing is not centered but I guess that's just due to the rubber seal being worn on one side? 

Only thing that jumps out at me then is those weird radial lines on your disc/rotor.  They are obviously some kind of wear pattern but I have no experience diagnosing those. 

Guys, what would cause those?  Are they normal? 

And, oh yeah, I do see that off center look on the other side too.  That side seems to be a "sealed" bearing which you wouldn't be able to grease anyway. 
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 12:14:37 AM
Rhiaaa,

I don't remember what scoot you have...

I looked around and found this page that has some good "free" information.  http://www.dansmc.com/wheelbearing.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/wheelbearing.htm)

I looked in the service guide for my P250 and , while it doesn't say it in as many words to pound out the bearings ...It says "BEARING REPLACEMENT Remove the front wheel bearings and distance collar." and the photo shows a drift (a tapered shaft used to drive items) and a small sledge or mallet. The distance collar is small shaft between the bearing to keep the two bearing the correct distance apart from each other.

Dan's MC page above also shows the bearing tool being used, a sockect being used instead and third alternative that requires less brute force but requires a threaded shaft, a couple bolts and some washers (all cheap at HomeDepot/Lowes or sometimes be salvaged from an old lamp)

Here is the bearing puller http://www.dansmc.com/wheel_bearing_tool2.jpg (http://www.dansmc.com/wheel_bearing_tool2.jpg)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 12:32:23 AM
Only thing that jumps out at me then is those weird radial lines on your disc/rotor.  They are obviously some kind of wear pattern but I have no experience diagnosing those. 

Guys, what would cause those?  Are they normal?



..no, they ARE NOT NORMAL!!!


..i do not know what might have caused them...

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 12:35:50 AM
..i would definately replace the disc, tho...and probably NOT worry about the bearings...

..stay focused on your original "brake noise" issue...


..maybe a loose caliper might have caused that type of wear pattern...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 12:43:35 AM
At first, the first blurry pic makes it look like the bearing is not centered but I guess that's just due to the rubber seal being worn on one side? 

Only thing that jumps out at me then is those weird radial lines on your disc/rotor.  They are obviously some kind of wear pattern but I have no experience diagnosing those. 

Guys, what would cause those?  Are they normal? 

And, oh yeah, I do see that off center look on the other side too.  That side seems to be a "sealed" bearing which you wouldn't be able to grease anyway. 

Thanks, Hoolander. The bearings may be alright. That one seal is messed up a bit. I might order another one. I don't remember the exact price, but I don't think they were terribly expensive. The OEM bearings were not as high priced as I expected them to be and may be found cheaper if I was to search around. The lines on the rotor I know nothing about either. Maybe I will need to take a closer look at the caliper too to make sure all is well. Honestly, if I had the money, I would replace it all at one time and start fresh just for the peace of mind of knowing what's what in that front end. Thank you, Hoolander.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 12:44:58 AM
Rhiaaa,

I don't remember what scoot you have...

I looked around and found this page that has some good "free" information.  http://www.dansmc.com/wheelbearing.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/wheelbearing.htm)

I looked in the service guide for my P250 and , while it doesn't say it in as many words to pound out the bearings ...It says "BEARING REPLACEMENT Remove the front wheel bearings and distance collar." and the photo shows a drift (a tapered shaft used to drive items) and a small sledge or mallet. The distance collar is small shaft between the bearing to keep the two bearing the correct distance apart from each other.

Dan's MC page above also shows the bearing tool being used, a sockect being used instead and third alternative that requires less brute force but requires a threaded shaft, a couple bolts and some washers (all cheap at HomeDepot/Lowes or sometimes be salvaged from an old lamp)

Here is the bearing puller http://www.dansmc.com/wheel_bearing_tool2.jpg (http://www.dansmc.com/wheel_bearing_tool2.jpg)

Thank you so much, TechGuy! This is very helpful info with Great Pics! I really appreciate it!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 12:45:40 AM
..i find myself looking at that more and more....

..none of my scoots show that wear pattern whatsoever...

..i reckon a loose wheel could also have caused that pattern, and i'm also wondering about the seemingly off-center seal of your bearings...

..imma venture a guess here, that somebody has worked on that front-end...replaced the bearings, because they DONT look like OEM...and it's very easy to "smear" the sealing material that protects the bearing during installation...

..yeah that much is probably ok ...

..if they didn't properly seat either the wheel fasteners, or the caliper fasteners, i'd suspect that the disc could be subjected to wear in the way it has...

..think of a high pitch wobble, especially when braking...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 26, 2010, 12:58:50 AM
Yeah, at any rate, something doesn't seem kosher about the bearings.  I'd bang em out n don't worry about damaging them, just replace em.  See about getting the disc trued up at a brake shop too.  You say you got a new axle to go in?   
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 12:59:34 AM
..a warped axle could also cause that...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 01:01:47 AM
..i find myself looking at that more and more....

..none of my scoots show that wear pattern whatsoever...

..i reckon a loose wheel could also have caused that pattern, and i'm also wondering about the seemingly off-center seal of your bearings...

..imma venture a guess here, that somebody has worked on that front-end...replaced the bearings, because they DONT look like OEM...and it's very easy to "smear" the sealing material that protects the bearing during installation...

..yeah that much is probably ok ...

..if they didn't properly seat either the wheel fasteners, or the caliper fasteners, i'd suspect that the disc could be subjected to wear in the way it has...

..think of a high pitch wobble, especially when braking...
Thank you, wordslinger! I don't know why they replaced the original bearings so soon on this scoot really. (@ 500 km??) They could be fine since they are most likely fairly new...being they are not the original ones. If I could get them out I would probably replace them...but...I also am starting to see some wisdom in what you said earlier about replacing one thing at a time then checking for the same symptoms. I don't know if the rotor is the original one or not. I'll definitely replace the rotor, though. I just know that it will make me crazy if I put a new rotor on and then find that it is still not right and I still can't ride it.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 01:04:36 AM
Hmm...a warped axle? I never thought of this. Will it look warped??

No, Hoolander, I don't have a new axle. I'm going to check the price.  :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 01:09:32 AM
Will it look warped??


..you should be able to roll it across a known flat surface to tell...

..should roll smooth, with no deflection...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 26, 2010, 01:12:46 AM
I'd better go further and say if the disc is either stainless steel or coated it may not be able to be turned/trued -- only replaced.  Yeah, look into the caliper and it's mounts too.  Lot of times the lubricant that lets it slide freely drys up and causes problems galore.  
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 01:27:58 AM
I will order a disc and use it while I find out if the original can be turned. If it can, I will have a spare. If it can't, I will still be able to ride. Okay, is there a special lubricant for the caliper and it's mounts? The caliper says Kymco on it. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the original one either, though. I'll take a look at that axle too. Thank you all!  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 01:30:45 AM
The caliper says Kymco

..probably oem, and any grease will work, but a "marine" type grease might repel moisture better...as an after-thought...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 26, 2010, 01:59:02 AM
For car brakes, a special high temperature grease is called for.  Re-grease once a year or so regardless the type.     
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 02:09:43 AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 03:06:24 PM
Rhiana,

I have not read all of the posts, do you have the correct service guide for your scooter?

What model scoot are we working on?

The radial striations on the disc could easily be caused by the wheel moving due to bad bearings. If the wear in the disc is light, you could get a machine shop to re-surface the disc for not much. They may even check it for you to see if it could be machined.  Take the bare disk and the service guide to the machine shop and they could check for you in a few seconds. Machining would be about $10-20 I am guessing. It would not take them long to machine it.  They do them every day for cars.

But...you must take the correct service guide to them with the specs for the service limits or they will not be will to check, you need to make this easy for them to help. Look in you local phone book fo machine shops.  Mine is located behind the NAPA parts store.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 05:02:03 PM
Hi TechGuy,

It's a 2007 Agility 50. I took a lot of pics of the brake disc, the rim, the bearing seals, etc. I posted a few. Only a few pics came out and some of those were blurry from weak camera batteries. I wish a few more close-ups of the disc from different sides and different angles had turned out.

I found an auto machine & parts shop in the phone book. I doubt I have enough ink to print the entire manual, hopefully I can at least print the page with the specs you mentioned. It's my luck to run out of batteries, ink, everything at the same time. It must be that old saying...When it rains it pours. :D

Thank you for your help. If I can get the bearings out between now and payday I will order replacements. It's probably better to KNOW that they are good new ones. Do you happen to know if they are easier to put in than to take out? Thanks again.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 26, 2010, 05:36:43 PM
Rianna,

Sent you a PM.    ;)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 06:05:13 PM
Here is a link to the service guide.  I think the guide is in german but numbers are numbers...  http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Kymco/ (http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Kymco/)  scroll down to the correct guide.  it is a .RAR file and many ZIP or compressed file readers will extract a rar file.  i will post the critical values when I get them.  you could just write down the critical number and take them to the machine shop.  i will have them in a few minutes.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 06:56:56 PM
Thank you, pedro. I can't even turn the camera on at the moment, though. You gave me an idea though. Broke out the old scanner. I think it was set at 300dpi but could change it to something higher easily. To get the pics to stay in the 192kb range I changed them to 2.5 inches across but told it to keep the same resolution settings. Will try to post a front and back scan of the rotor and see if it's clearer. Thanks.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 06:58:08 PM
Please ignore the dust on the glass of the scanning surface. This thing is ancient...lol.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 07:13:04 PM
I read the service I linked you to.  It had a German Link name but it is in English. In the service guide, they show the bearings being pulled using a slide puller.  They have fingers that go behind the bearing and the weight slides along a shaft and and pulls them out.  The image in the page I linked you to does the same thing just using a screw instead of a slide weight. Both do the same thing. Whatever you can get will work.

It is possible that your wheels have a "detent" or groove made into the wheel that would prevent the bearing from being pushed thru the wheel using a drift ... I don't know.  What this means if you tried to push them, you are only making yourself more work.  They say to pull them, I guess we pull them.  It does say the wheel has two bearings and a spacer shaft between them. It is possible the machine shop could pull the old bearings and press the new ones in for you but that costs money... but usually not much and less for cute girls.  Total up the cost of the puller (cost or rental), transportation to the place to get the puller, time back to the wheel, pull time, press time, time to take the brake disk to the machine shop, time to ask about the disk...

The damage to the brake disk may look worse than it is.

Last time I went to the machine shop for a small project, i was charged the shop minimum, $25.00. It might be worth a phone call. Be honest but don't waste their time either. Respect their time and answer the question quickly and honestly.  if you don't know, say so and don't give them a BS answer.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 07:18:20 PM
There's the answer I was looking for... On the disk, the disk can be machined to a minimum of 3 MM thick.  If the damage can be removed before the disk is 3mm thick, I can be used without any issues. The guy at the machine shop will measure it and tell you in less than 10 seconds. They will place it in a machine and grind it until it s smooth and the damage is gone and as much metal as possible is left on the disk.  I don't think they charge much more than $10 or 20 for this type of grind.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 07:31:52 PM
Thank you so much, TechGuy! I've scrounged and scoured the house over for change and only came up with a little over $12. I may have to find some wrappers and break out the penny bank.  :D

The OEM disc was around $60 plus shipping and I found another brand with the same dimensions I had planned to order for about $35 shipped, but this is a less expensive option and would help me to troubleshoot more between now and payday. Then I could order some bearings and start working on those. Thank you again!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 26, 2010, 07:54:09 PM
You may be able to source the bearings locally too. The bearings are 'just bearings' The guys/gals are the machine shop may be able to help you find them.  They may even have them...for not much. Every machine has bearings... metric and US... they are all the same. As long as they are designed for the load range and use, they are fine.  The machine shop could be a bearings house or you may have a bearings house in town.  When you get the bearings out, take the old ones to them and let them try. You are actually talking about a "light" duty bearing in industrial sense of a bearing. They will measure the outside and inside dimensions and thickness and then look them up in one of their catalogs.

It is possible they have these in stock for less than you think.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
It would be great if they had them and they were in stock!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on October 26, 2010, 11:09:58 PM
hey girl....it seems to me by reading that tech guy has you on the right patn there.......is it just me or is your ag being a hag?.. :D :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 26, 2010, 11:17:05 PM
Ha! LMAO, bat! That's a nicer word than the one I've been using at times.  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 26, 2010, 11:21:30 PM
..tech...awesome info for rianna...

....a hag...lmao..
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 27, 2010, 02:34:05 AM
Hey all.   Hey TechGuy, I got to wonder about that 3mm spec.  Can that be right?  That's like as thin as a toothpic almost.   
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on October 27, 2010, 02:35:32 AM
If the damage can be removed before the disk is 3mm thick, I can be used without any issues.

..imma reckon that's a typo.....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 02:43:06 AM
The manual actually says the standard is 4.0mm and the service limit is 2.0mm. That particular disc says 3mm is the minimum thickness for it.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 27, 2010, 02:52:53 AM
My rotor says 3mm min thickness too.  I don't have any calipers to check it's total thickness but I can tell you that it's much ticker than 3mm.  I would never let it get that thin thats for sure.  :o

(https://sites.google.com/a/ped.ro/people/_/rsrc/1287939783524/home/IMG_2922.JPG)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on October 27, 2010, 03:03:34 AM
Wow, ok, I've been informed!  ;)  Thanks! 
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on October 27, 2010, 01:02:12 PM
didnt know if i could "express myself".. :D  its all good, i cuss mine at times too..then ill apoligize and rub on her. :D :D :D   she does treat me good.........if i could ever stop with the mod thing... ;D ;)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on October 27, 2010, 01:04:58 PM
hey rianna, why in the hell isnt your man helping you fix your dam ride???.....dam, maybe we all need to find the back roads to you and get her right again.. ;D....hmmm, wonder if they still are back roads.. :-\
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 02:36:37 PM
LOL...you crack me up, bat. Ain't no man around here except my son. He gonna be 18 soon. Gotta find him a cool birthday present! What did you get when you turned 18??

Oh yeah! Plenty of back roads up here! I look 'em all up all the time on Google's bicycle trails thing. It amazes me, though, how Google finds all them back roads and all them damn Humongous Hills. I'm talkin' 'bout hills I would never try to pedal a bicycle up...lol.

Yeah, gotta get this thing running. Gotta get out of this house and do stuff again. Been sittin' around too long when my health went bad.  I need me some wheels that will roll to get me moving again. Hey what kind of brakes do you have on the back of your ZX? Can you switch something from back there up front to work around that speedo cable thingy?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: iker on October 27, 2010, 03:30:38 PM
riana, i dont know your problem, but if you put finger into bearings and they turn freely with no clicks or binding then i would guess your bearings are not your problem. my 2 cents, iker
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
Thank you, iker!  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
I don't know if the bearings are bad or not but it sounds like you have have the wheel out and pounded on them some?  If so, they need to be replaced, they also show interesting wear and the brake disk shows odd wear.  What is the history... I came late to the party...

As to the comment about the thickness of the brake disk, I have a feeling that the standard 4mm, grind to 3mm and replace at 2mm applies to all  the discs because my P250 sounds about the same. I measured 3 dimes in the office today with a ruler (not perfect but close enough), I come up with right at 3mm for 3 dimes.  The US Mint website lists dimes as being 1.35 mm thick but these seem thinner than that. Nickels are shown to be 1.95 mm thick so two should be almost 4.0 mm thick, same as a new disc. My nickels measure right at 4 mm when I stack two of them.

So, Rhianna, if your disc is as

Thick as two nickels, it is almost new.
Thick as one nickel, needs to be replaced.
Thick as 3 dimes, It can be re-surfaced at a machine shop.

Easy, cheap way to tell using no tools!

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 08:50:04 PM
Do your bearings click or move in any odd ways or are they smooth rolling?

Did you abuse them by pounding on them?

In they are quiet and you did not pound on them.. you may be OK...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 08:52:59 PM
Now if I could just spell your name right... LOL
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
Hi, TechGuy! I like your measuring trick. My disc is is just a bit thicker than 2 nickels. And the two nickels were just a bit taller than the 3 dimes. We must wear are dimes out faster than our nickels, lol. So that looks good! It should be able to be re-surfaced.

I didn't really abuse the bearings. I couldn't find a proper screwdriver. I've been using the small bits in a handle. So the first screwdriver I came across I tried. It was not made for this type of thing, though. It's only about 4 or 5 inches long and the handle is about the size of an ink pen. The handle is hollow and almost see-through. Just not sturdy enough. But I tried it anyway. The first time I hit it, I knocked the plastic cap off the end and smashed the plastic handle. I think I abused the screwdriver, rather than the bearings, lol. They do turn and don't make any loud noises so they could be OK.

Being they are not the OEM or original bearings the previous owner must have replaced them trying to solve a problem. Could be they replaced bearings when they should have replaced the rotor or the caliper. I wish I knew, but I have no idea. I bought it as is from a dealer a couple hours away. At any rate I'm not against replacing them for the sake of starting fresh and knowing what is new and what is not new when I put it back together. I just hope I get to ride more than 60 or 70km this time.

Oh and don't worry about the spelling...it's just a nick name anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 09:55:54 PM
So why are we taking the bearings out today?  Have they failed? 

The brake disk... can you feel a difference in the dark areas from the light areas? 

When the wheel was on the bike, what did the front feel like? 

When rolling without gas? under acceleration? while rolling... without gas or any brakes?  while using the front brakes?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 10:21:49 PM
Oh, my...so many questions! I'll try to answer them. This is my first scooter so I'm not sure how much help I'll be, but I'll try.

The disc...No, I don't feel a difference in any area of the disc. But this is the first time I have seen or felt a brake disc. I know that other folks can see something wrong with it, and I'm glad. But I have nothing to compare it to. I've never seen a good one before to know that this one is bad. I wouldn't have known.

What the front felt like...Everything felt fine the first few quick rides I took. It ran as smooth as the road I was riding on. Then an awful and very loud grinding noise appeared while riding. When I used the brakes the noise disappeared until I let go of the brakes. The noise got louder each time I rode. The noise was present even while pushing the scooter through the yard without the gas on. When I apply the brakes the noise stops. Then the last time I had it out the front tire was wobbly or bouncy like something was loose or just not right. I brought it back home and parked it. The air pressure in the tire has remained the same.

And the bearings may be fine. When I took the rotor off to get a closer look I was only planning to look at the bearings and add grease if it was needed. Then I noticed they seem off center and they are not OEM bearings. That's where I'm at now. :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 27, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
Sounds like the speedometer cable got messed up.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 27, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
Messed up??
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: pedro on October 27, 2010, 10:44:16 PM
How did the speedometer cable look when you disconnected it?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 11:16:25 PM
Can you read any numbers off the bearings?  

According to the part numbers in the online catalog at Stadium Yamaha/Kymco.   They are part number 90912-HGC8-0000-m1 and they sell them for $22.08 each and you need 2 each.

SKU: 90912-GHC8-0000-M1
BEARING 6201 (U) (NTN)

NTN6201 is a valid series of bearing that are 32mm on the outside and 12 MM on the inside and the bearing is 10 mm thick. There is a nother series of letters that defines the type of seals and I have not figured that out. I think it its a "double shield" but I am not sure if it is a "ZZ" double shield" or 'LLB non-contact shields" or  "LLU double shields,contact"

I just found that answer.. You want a LLU or LLH seal for an NTN bearing.  The others are not dust or waterproof enough for a scooter front wheel application.

Single Row Deep Groove   NTN Part Number =   6201

http://tinyurl.com/2f9fcxg (http://tinyurl.com/2f9fcxg)

You want an NTN6201 LLU.  I am not sure if they are easy to find or not .  NTN is a huge company.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 11:29:37 PM
I have a free and crazy idea... put the wheel back in...without any front brakes.  Push the scoot around some and see if it is still "squeally".  Maybe even take a short ride. If you have not taken the front caliper off the scoot, and you want to ensure you don't squeeze the front brake, take a block of wood or something similar and tie it between the handle and the brake handle so you cant' squeeze the brakes. 

Don't go far or the guts of the brakes may fall out. or better .. put something in the brake calipers to keep the pistons in the caliper bodies.

What I an wondering is was the squeal brake caused or wheel bearing caused. If they replaced the bearing with the right sized bearings with  wrong type of bearing seal.  On ebay i found tons of the correct size bearing by the NTN part number NTN6210 but the wring seal (type B seals instead of the LLU code). They could have lost the seal integrity and be full of dust and water and not lube.  FYI.. the hundreds 6201B bearings are $3.00 and the single 6201LLU I found was $14.00 in a beat up box and it didn't have the correct dimensions listed. 

Makes the $22.00 from Kymco not look so bad.... to know you have the correct part.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 27, 2010, 11:58:19 PM
Well, I started looking an online catalog from my local bearing supply house, Motion Industry.  You may have one near you.  It appears that the 6201 is an industry standard code for the type of bearing.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on October 28, 2010, 12:02:33 AM
WHOA!!.. techguy is THE MAN on this bearring scene. :o 8)   ....i know who to call if i ever have a issue.. ;D  great info,even tho mine are probably different. ::)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 12:22:33 AM
I used to sell A/C parts for A/C units as big as many people's homes.  Now I just write reports for companys all of you know

If you cannot feel any "damage" on that disk by running your hand over the surface of the disc, you can buy one sheet of 300 or 600 grit wet/dry sand paper from HomeDepot/Lowes/Ac and sand off that black stuff with a little water or baby oil to lubricate it.  The sand paper is black in color and may be sold at the auto parts store (like a good NAPA).

If you can't really feel it, it's not major damage and not worth replacing.

I have damage you can see/feel on my disk and I am not replacing it.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 12:30:36 AM
Okay, my bearings said:

TPI 6201LU 332

And the seal was more difficult to read, even with a magnifying glass, but it looked like:

KCY 20 32 5 5.7
C2703 KOK3

That mean anything?  :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
It's storming here right now so I can't really do much with it outside until morning probably, but, I slid the wheel back in with the caliper off and rolled it to the other room. I don't hear anything.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 12:38:49 AM
OH, and it doesn't "squeal" or "squeak" ever! I can listen to brakes squealing all day long and think nothing of it. This sounds more like you threw some metal into a meat grinder or something.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 06:02:52 AM
Okay, my bearings said:

TPI 6201LU 332 <-- This is the maker and the bearing number --looks good to me! correct types of seals, different makers have different letters but they are not ZZ or anything like that.

And the seal was more difficult to read, even with a magnifying glass, but it looked like:

KCY 20 32 5 5.7 <<-- not sure what this is.. dimensions maybe 32 is the outside diameter
C2703 KOK3 <<--- sound like a date code , shift C , 27th week of 2003 at plant KOK3 or machine KOK3

That mean anything?  :D

Overall, I think you are OK on the bearings.  They cannot be off center... you have two bearings, pressed into a mag wheel, with a spacer, with a solid steel shaft going through the center... if they were not straight, the axle shaft would not go in or come out without a major fight.

I am going to say...use them as they are! I might be wrong but I don't think so. Put some weight on the scoot and roll it around when the sun is out and see if it's happy and quiet.

What do your brake pads look like?  Scan them and let's see them...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 11:15:57 AM
TPI 6201LU 332 <-- This is the maker and the bearing number --looks good to me! correct types of seals, different makers have different letters but they are not ZZ or anything like that.

Yes, I saw some ZZ when I tried to use Google to figure out what the numbers meant, but did not think it was right. The ones with the ZZ in their code seemed to be popular, though, at least on Google.

KCY 20 32 5 5.7 <<-- not sure what this is.. dimensions maybe 32 is the outside diameter
And this one, I'm not sure what the "5.7"  part is, but I do now see 20*32*5 listed by the Dust Seal on the StadiumYamaha website, so it is most likely the correct one also.

I have found some rechargeable batteries for the camera. But it does sound like a good idea to scan the brake pads, maybe it's a good thing my batteries died after all. I will need to look up in the manual or somewhere to see about taking the pads out. I have not done this before. I know there can be some small clips and such and I don't want to lose any pieces. I will post up the scans in a little while. Thank you.  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 02:28:19 PM
Okay, here is the scan of the brake pads. I hope it comes out large enough to get a good look. The scan was very dark so I lightened it up just a little for a better view.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 04:03:34 PM
Your pads look OK, you have plenty of material left.  When they wear to the point where the four raised sections wear even with the low areas in the "trench" or slot, they need to be replaced.

Do you know why they have a large defect or broken in the upper pad in the photo?  If a rock were lodged in that groove, it could cause a really nasty sounding metal grinding noise that depending on the angle of the rock and the shape of the rock face against the disk, might not even cause much damage to the disc if you didn't ride much. A rock would/could fall out during the process of removing the pads and caliper and could even take a chuck of the brake pad material with it (like what is appears I am looking at in the scan).

What I think I am saying, you may want to try doing is to fit all this back together and see if it still squeals. You could take a piece of sand paper and clean up that gash if it looks flaky or just go with what you got.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 04:55:36 PM
Thank you, I see the trenches area you are talking about so now I know when they need replaced. You are right there is plenty of material left in these pads. I think I learned something here.  ;D

About the defects on the upper pad. I believe I ran over a large nut or buckeye in the yard. Whatever did this is long gone so I can't be sure what it was. When I took the pads out nothing new fell out. And the grinding noise has continued on past the first time I removed the caliper and took a look and cleaned it a bit.

The gouges in the center area look deeper here to me than they look in the scan. One side feels rough and catches my finger when I slide it across it so some sandpaper may be in order. There is also a gouge near the left side edge that is not so visible in the scan. It's more of a hole though and not torn up.

If there were a rock stuck in it I could see it making that type of sound. Would the rough edges of the pads alone be catching on the rotor and making a metal grinding sound that loud? I'm thinking no, but I know nothing about the material they are made of. I'm gonna go check the area and floor again to be sure I didn't miss something falling out.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 05:14:31 PM
I'd better go further and say if the disc is either stainless steel or coated it may not be able to be turned/trued -- only replaced.  Yeah, look into the caliper and it's mounts too.  Lot of times the lubricant that lets it slide freely drys up and causes problems galore.  
I just looked back a few pages to find this post. Where exactly is this lubricant or grease supposed to be? I ask because I see nothing. I pulled the brake pins completely out and they are dry as can be. The two cylinder well thingies are dry and look shiny like new. I see a spot of rust on the spring thing (not sure what it's called) down under where the pads sit, but I am not seeing any lubricant or grease or signs of any.  :-\

Oh, and I found nothing in my work area nor on the floor in either room it was sitting in.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 06:13:05 PM
Follow the service guide, I don't think they recommend ANY lubricant except on the side of the pistons when you rebuild the calipers. Adding the wrong type of the lube/grease to the brakes will cause problems.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 06:23:04 PM
Unless you removed the pistons from the caliper body, I would not use any lube on anything.

The clip, likely rusted in spots, make sure it is in the correct direction (use the photos) or it can drag on the edge of the brake disk. It is is just there to hold the pads in the correct alignment.  The pins are hangers and they don't need any lube as they pads are hanging, not gliding/sliding, along them.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 07:13:19 PM
Thank you, TechGuy! You are so patient and I appreciate it!!

The two shiny things (the pistons perhaps?) are they supposed to be even? Mine are not even. They look to me like they should set inside evenly at the same depth inside the holes, but one protrudes farther than the other one.

The manual isn't specific or maybe I don't understand it very well, but I give you permission to laugh at any and all of my questions and comments!  :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 28, 2010, 07:44:15 PM
It doesn't matter... push them in until they show the thickness of a nickel or so (not critical) and put the brake pads in. 

When you get them mounted on the bike and squeeze the brake handle, they will seat themselves correctly. I sometime use a piece of wood and some slip joint pliers or a c-clamp to slowly squeeze the pistons back into the caliper body. Whatever it takes to make the pistons go in far enough to get the pads in and the disk between them. Don't push them in too far, they will squish brake fluid out of the reservoir at the top.

I slip a thin piece of cardboard (hunk of cereal box?) folded in half and slipped between the brake pads in the assembled caliper/brake assembly and then use the bendy flaps of the cardboard to slip it over the disc (one flap on each side) and then slide it to the final mounting place. If I need to lose the cardboard to get to the final spot, that's OK, it is just there to make it easy to split the two pads.  They can be hard to pull apart while holding the caliper assembly and the wheel and the....

Slip joint pliers
(http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/jpg/tool/slipjoint1.jpg)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 28, 2010, 09:11:52 PM
Okay, I've been studying this for awhile now and my brain isn't cooperating with it's current 3 hours sleep level so I better ask to be sure I get it right. The spacer...which way does it go? Does the small end sit down inside of the seal with the large portion closer to the fork? Or does the large portion rest on top of the seal with the smaller side closer to the fork?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 29, 2010, 02:45:47 AM
I will look and get back to you...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 29, 2010, 03:25:38 AM
Okay, thank you.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 29, 2010, 04:22:56 PM
Hi, TechGuy. I had many distractions yesterday and became very tired. When I went to put everything back together to test it out some things didn't add up. Something didn't look right and it just didn't make sense to me so I stopped.

In looking at the diagrams this morning it seems the spacer may have been in backwards and instead of resting inside of the seal the larger part was sitting on the seal. It could be that it slipped into one side of the seal while the wheel was in motion and that is what had caused some damage to the seal. Between that and the right fork bolts that were loose it does not surprise me that the front end felt off and somewhat loose after riding it a ways. I also noticed today that my speedometer gear box isn't the one shown in the diagrams and it has the letters KCX on the outside of it. Those letters seem to match up with the speedo for the ZX. Who knows what else has been swapped. I don't know if someone took this scoot to the dealer this way as a trade in or if the dealer's mechanic put things together this way. But it's my mess now and I thank you for helping me to sort it all out.

I've put things back together in the proper direction. I will ask the machine shop to check the rotor's condition and then deal with replacing the remaining parts a little at a time until all is as it should have been in that front end area. Again I want to say Thank You so much!!!  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 29, 2010, 05:21:36 PM
If the seal were in the wrong direction, that could have been the grinding noise. Especially, if the fork bolts were loose. When you put the brakes on, the wheel was getting extra support and may have been held up straighter.  This could have released the pressure on the seal and stopped the grinding noise.

Basically, the process of taking it apart, cleaning it all and putting it back together correctly in the right order and direction, and torquing the bolts, will solve the problems. A dealer would not notice that the spacer on the front axle was installed in the wrong direction on a used bike.  Now, a loose bolt on the fork...   You might invest $2 in some "blue locktite" for those fork and axle bolts so they don't come loose again. You can get it at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store. You put a drop or two on the threads right before you put the bolt in the hole and it locks the bolt in the threads until you put a wrench on it and break it loose. It can't break loose due to vibrations and shake itself out of the hole.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on October 29, 2010, 11:33:08 PM
This all sounds great, TechGuy! I couldn't test it out today, but I will know the results tomorrow. Thank you for all the tips. I put the blue locktite and a torque wrench on my shopping list. I think I'm ready to roll!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 30, 2010, 07:07:10 AM
Good to hear.  I hope you are up and running soon.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: sidthesloth on October 30, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
looking at the pic of the disc, they are heat marks, the pads have been running on the disc. were there any matel particles embedded in the pads? If so, that is where your grinding sound was coming from, if not it may just be the pad surface is glazed enough, the disc surface certainly looks like it.
Sorry for the lateness, first time I have seen the pics.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on October 30, 2010, 10:28:56 PM
Sid,

The grinding was occurring when the brakes were not being used.  When they were being used, the grind stopped, as I understand it.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 05, 2010, 12:03:41 AM
Rianna... you up and running yet?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on November 05, 2010, 12:06:53 AM
..she's not been here for nearly a week....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 05, 2010, 12:13:24 AM
They're dropping like flies!

Or maybe they have lives outside the forum.

....hard to fathom....
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on November 05, 2010, 12:14:13 AM
Or maybe they have lives outside the forum.




...what??.......
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 05, 2010, 12:21:34 AM
I know, inconceivable right?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 05, 2010, 12:39:33 AM
I can only hope its because she got it running and she's had so much fun scooting that she forgot all about us.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: wordslinger on November 05, 2010, 12:40:02 AM
...yeah...me too...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 09, 2010, 11:43:14 PM
Rianna... you up and running yet?

No, sorry, TechGuy, I've been having difficulties all around lately. But, I didn't forget about you guys! :)

Will post results as soon as my lower back, a computer and internet connection all cooperate...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 11, 2010, 03:41:52 AM
You might invest $2 in some "blue locktite" for those fork and axle bolts so they don't come loose again. You can get it at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store.

They didn't have any locktite brand at the auto parts store here. I tried to ask for it and the fella kept trying to make me buy the RED permatex one. I had enough trouble getting the bolts loose the first time with the blue! LOL. Anyway, it was $5.99 here for a .20 fl. oz. tube of the blue permatex threadlocker. I must live in an expensive place!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 11, 2010, 08:13:32 PM
Did you buy it?  Let me know if you didn't.  I may have an extra laying around I can send to you. 0.20 ounces in an envelope is not going to kill me.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 12, 2010, 01:48:02 AM
Thanks, TechGuy. Yes I paid their price and bought it anyway. I should have bought that loctite brand when I saw it at the grocery store for $5. I thought I might find it cheaper at the auto parts store, but it looks like I thought wrong. It was on sale, too. The regular price was $6.29! I got a deal! :D

I was all set to use it tonight. I greased that axle and put everything back together except the speedometer gear. I'm almost ready to use it now.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 12, 2010, 06:36:45 PM
I still have some noise with the caliper attached.

Ya think I could ride it down to the machine shop this way since we ruled out the tire, wheel bearings, axle, forks, etc. and just use mostly the back brake and go easy on the front one if I do need to use it, Tech Guy? I'm considering it after I put some threadlocker on those fork mount bolts.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 12, 2010, 09:54:34 PM
So, if everything except the caliper or disk is in place, it's quiet? The pads may drag a little (all the time) but not enough to make big grind noise.  If they do, we should look at if you have the correct caliper, have some bolts or washers in the wrong order, or are missing a spacer or something. They should not grind.... but they may not be silent either.

Were you planning on riding it to the machine shop, taking the front wheel off there in the parking lot, remove the brake disk, having them machine it and then put it all back together and ride home?  Unless they agree up front, they may not do it while you wait. Also, they may take offense to you doing work in the lot.  Ask first or risk offending someone.

Permatex brand = Loctite brand They are essentially the same and both reputable brands. My $2 guess-itmate may have thrown you off. But... $5 to keep the forks on the bike is a small price to pay. Yes, a torque wrench would be nice (better) but this is a close second.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 12, 2010, 10:41:33 PM
Well, it's too late in the day to go across town today. I forgot it's Friday. Folks are small town minded around here so that's probably not an option again until Monday anyway. There are a couple places close to it where I could likely work without attracting much attention, but, yeah...it would probably be better to take it off at home and take the buses there and back.

Okay, so, yes, with everything in place except the caliper all is quiet. With the caliper attached the rotor sticks in one spot every spin of the tire. I know it's the same exact spot because when I hear the noise I look at the rotor and I always see the same letters passing through the caliper assembly. This is what makes me think the rotor may be off. It does this every revolution and I'm not using the brake lever or touching everything.

OH, and I did get the $10.99 torque wrench. :)


Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 13, 2010, 01:00:54 AM
When you take the disc to the machine shop, be very honest with the guy behind the counter.  There is a possibility that the disc is heat warped and may not machine out. Ask him about that possibility before he spends your money machining a piece of garbage.

I have been wondering, how unique is a Kymco brake disc? I am actually thinking it's not.  In truth, it's just a chunk a stainless with mounting holes. I know the "performance" ones are very special, but wonder if one of the "regular ones" at a local dirt bike or ATV shop wouldn't work fine. I wonder if the diameter and mounting wholes were the same and thickness was 4mm to begin... it should be fine.


I don't know this for sure... but I have been thinking about it.  All the dirt and motocross guys do this all the time.  They buy a bike an they upgrade the disc almost immediately.... or they go out on a weekend and bend the disc on a stump or rock and need a new "regular" one.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 01:16:04 AM
I can order a "regular one" for about $35 if I can find the website again. I wish I hadn't lost my bookmarks because it took me a week to find that one.

I got to thinking about what you said about having the correct caliper. I looked and down inside the caliper (under the clip) it says ZY-1. I might have to search around to see what that means. I do not see those letters/numbers on the Stadium Yamaha site for the caliper assembly for the Agility 50. The brake pads have 06A11 on them and I don't see that on Stadium Yamaha either. They say KYMCO on them but they have a funny looking logo/symbol on the pads and the caliper that I have never seen associated with Kymco before. Now I'm wondering if I don't have the wrong setup...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 13, 2010, 04:45:11 AM
The Stadium price for the disk is this:

45121-LBD5-E00          DISK FR BRK         $56.48         1         $56.48

http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/73/Kymco.aspx (http://www.stadiumyamaha.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/73/Kymco.aspx)

Does the logo look like this:

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TJaqu1iPouI/AAAAAAAAIyY/cKNMDm-amoc/IMG_3845.JPG)

If so, my brakes have them, too.  They can be seen with pride in the new Kymco advertising for the new scooters.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 04:53:55 AM
Wow, how did you find that?

Uh-oh...mine does not look like that. Well, not exactly. Is that a lowercase "h"?

I do remember wondering if it was a wavy capital "H" or possibly even lowercase "ff" though. It's kind of small and I wasn't sure which way to look at it. I couldn't figure out what an h or an f had to do with Kymco. Hmm...I really need to try to get a pic.



Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 05:05:43 AM
I'm sorry, TechGuy, I snapped 4 more pics and they just won't come out right. There's not a lot of light so the automatic flash keeps kicking in even though I turned it off. My camera has a mind of it's own. I might try again in the daytime and then just resize it online if it turns out.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 06:01:54 AM
When I push the brake lever 3 times one of the pistons has already moved about halfway out, but the other piston has barely budged from it's spot. I remember that one on the right was more difficult to push back in. Should they move evenly?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 13, 2010, 06:04:25 AM
If you place you photos at a place like Picasa or flickr and link them, you don't need to resize them.

You link them by going to you photo storage site, ( i uses Picasa) and then you right click, choose "copy image location",

you come here and click on the photo frame (second icon, below the slanted i) and paste the contents of the clipboard into the area between the two image blocks

[img ]http://paste here [/img ] << sample one
[img ]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TIgBAZ3Q8lI/AAAAAAAAIpc/z1jwW50QDKo/Blue-Fade-Front-avatar-1.png[/img ] <<one I broke so you can see the "before" post button. I "broke" it by adding extra spaces

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TIgBAZ3Q8lI/AAAAAAAAIpc/z1jwW50QDKo/Blue-Fade-Front-avatar-1.png)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 13, 2010, 06:09:00 AM
When I push the brake lever 3 times one of the pistons has already moved about halfway out, but the other piston has barely budged from it's spot. I remember that one on the right was more difficult to push back in. Should they move evenly?

It probably means you need more brake fluid in the reservoir.  They may not move out evenly until they contact the disc completely and firmly.  I would not worry about ti until you get your disc issue resolved. Otherwise you will fix it and then need to take it apart and then to fix it again. Don't press them out too far without brake pads and a disc in place or the pistons will push all the way out and you will have a huge mess... and tons more work.

 ( i assume you know this but... never assume)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 06:18:04 AM
Okay, thank you. I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure it's working as it should.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 06:26:54 AM
Yeah, I think I knew that, but I forget a lot, too, lol. I pushed it back in and put the pads back in. :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 13, 2010, 06:31:21 AM
It's late back there... I understand... it's only 10:30 here.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 03:43:05 PM
Sometimes I forget about the time differences. If you are in the U.S. then you must be on the west coast. I have some good memories of driving that big truck out west on some long cross country runs. Beautiful Scenery...Wish I had taken more pictures back then!

I'll try with the camera again this morning on that logo. I would just take a pic of the logo on the back of the pads if I hadn't smeared that junk all over the back of them already.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 13, 2010, 04:32:17 PM
Okay, I attempted to wipe off the back of the pads and get a pic of one of them outside. Then I used paint program to cut out just the part with the numbers and logo area. Maybe it will be visible enough to read.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 14, 2010, 02:04:15 AM
Kind of cryptic lettering - but you can clearly read the Kymco part.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 14, 2010, 04:00:45 AM
Yeah...I'm not having any luck identifying the pads numbers as being the correct ones yet, though. I have seen a couple different brands of pads that look like them online that say they are for Kymco with different thickness amounts, but I haven't found the ones with the exact numbers yet. I don't know what thickness the pads are supposed to be to begin with. I thought maybe they were the SBS pads because they have that #611, but I'm not sure yet. I've been busy searching for a disc.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 16, 2010, 09:19:34 PM
The pads themselves are likely made by several different companies to Kymco's specifications and several other companies will make "generic" or "performance" parts.  I just looked and for an Agility 50 4T (2005-2010) the EBC part shows to be an FA228  $32.00 for the organic pads and FA228HH $37.00 for the performance pads. They also show a replacement disc 

MD971D EBC Scooter RotorFRONT Made from stainless steel, these diamond ground replacement rotors weigh less than most original units. $67.00

http://tinyurl.com/27fdlap (http://tinyurl.com/27fdlap)

You can get them elsewhere, this is the first place I found when I searched.  I have no idea if they are good OR cheap.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 16, 2010, 09:41:19 PM
Thank you, TechGuy. I didn't know EBC had rotors as well. I had found a set of pads and rotor that I thought would have the correct dimensions. I believe the rotor to be of the "generic" variety. Not sure about the pads. The price for both including the shipping was about $38. I would post the links here but they are on the other computer now since I'm working on fixing my broken computer at the moment. If you wouldn't mind looking at them I could PM them to you in a little while when I switch back to that computer. I think the pads were by a different company but were on the cross-reference chart for the EBC FA228, I believe. I don't want to order the wrong pads or materials that are incompatible with the disc or scoot.

Also, I just noticed that the brake fluid I picked up says, "Synthetic DOT 3 & 4 Brake Fluid" on the label. It's made by Valvoline. I've never heard of synthetic brake fluid before. Did I get the wrong thing? I'm hoping it will work in my scoot. I was planning to use it after I change everything out. I might as well learn how to bleed the brakes and go the whole nine yards at this point. :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 17, 2010, 04:22:45 PM
Good Morning, TechGuy. I sent you a PM with the websites where I found the rotor and pads. I know there are different types of pads like sintered, organic, semi-metallic, etc. I don't know how to tell if a certain type of pads are compatible with the disc, though. The fella had 10 sets available when I first saw them and he has 9 now. For 10 bucks with free shipping they may go fast, lol. Every time I think I have it figured out there's something else to think about. I should have took Shop Class in High School.  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 17, 2010, 07:51:45 PM
If the pads look like your's they sound OK but I have not been able to confirm the numbers. Looks like there were lots of "equals".

Are your pads worn bad?

I thought it was your disc that was shot...

FYI... that $10 brake disc you mentioned had a 44 Business day lead time... that's about 2 months of real time.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 17, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
What $10 brake disc?  ???
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 17, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
Oh, the pads were $10, but I see now what you mean now...it did not say that the other day. Just my luck. It figures!  :'(

Maybe I'm not supposed to ride this winter. I give up.

Thank you, TechGuy!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 19, 2010, 02:05:00 AM
They all look the same, TechGuy. I'm sorry it looks like I sent you the link for the Rear Brake Disc. They are probably interchangeable, but this one looks like it is in stock for $29.95 plus $6.95 shipping. What do you think about this one?

http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/product_info/products_id/11171/cPath/116_8 (http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/product_info/products_id/11171/cPath/116_8)

And no, my pads are probably not that bad but if I can get new ones without gouges in them for $10 and I have enough money left after buying the disc I wouldn't mind having them so I can start out fresh after I get the OEM rotor resurfaced.  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 19, 2010, 08:41:29 AM
someone is looking out for you, and He is very high ranking.  I took a VERY long ride today to meet-up with a friend from Modern Vespa.  Jim is a friend from the forum and he live is London, England.  He is visiting a friend in California. Since he was coming, he said he would bring me something from England I could not find in the states. Well, I decided today I was going to ride the 85 miles or so and meet him in person and pick-up my item. The three of us yakked for two hours... non-stop.

Later as I was riding home... a hundred plus mile ride home...  I stopped in at a grocery store to make a phone call to let my wife know where I was. I then bought a drink and snack.  I took these out front and sat at the provided table. I was near my scoot and this guy walked up and asked if it was mine and did I live in town. Yes, it's mine, No, i don't live in town but I bought it here in 2008. Come to find out the guy is the local Kymco dealer for this college town and this was the scooter he had bought for his wife.

Ok... now the good part for you.

I asked him about your grinding noise.

He said it is common and simple to fix.  You need to be sure that when you place the axle in the wheel and you tighten the pinch bolts on the axle, that you make sure the fork tube with the brake caliper mounting plate is rotated so that the caliper body, brake pads, and brake disk are all in alignment and that the axle is fully installed before you fully torque the pinch bolts. If the fork tube is not correctly aligned or the pinch bolts on the axle are made tight and then the axle is torqued in more, the brake mounting plate twists and grinds against the brake disk.

If the fork tube is installed misaligned, when you squeeze the brake handle, the brake pads pull in, the fork twists into the correct alignment, the caliper body moves away from the brake disk and the grinding stops.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 19, 2010, 08:42:19 AM
He also said, you cant grind m/c brake disks... you just replace them.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 19, 2010, 06:53:50 PM
Thank you, TechGuy, Jim, and Kymco dealer! A hundred plus mile ride! So good of you to stop and call your wife. I hope Jim brought you a very special item. :)

He said it is common and simple to fix.  You need to be sure that when you place the axle in the wheel and you tighten the pinch bolts on the axle, that you make sure the fork tube with the brake caliper mounting plate is rotated so that the caliper body, brake pads, and brake disk are all in alignment and that the axle is fully installed before you fully torque the pinch bolts. If the fork tube is not correctly aligned or the pinch bolts on the axle are made tight and then the axle is torqued in more, the brake mounting plate twists and grinds against the brake disk.

If the fork tube is installed misaligned, when you squeeze the brake handle, the brake pads pull in, the fork twists into the correct alignment, the caliper body moves away from the brake disk and the grinding stops.


I have to study this a bit. I'm in a hurry right now and I have to run and help a friend, but I will say quickly that when I was putting things back together I noticed that the fork on my left side as I was facing the scoot will twist and turn unexpectedly and much easier than the one on the rotor side. I had wondered if it had anything to do with the loose fork mount bolts or even the missing pieced form the speedometer gear box? Once when I put it all back together it was a bit out of alignment and I was thinking it needed straightened so the fender would go on easily. It was somewhat turned in too far so it may be that the one on the rotor side was not where it should have been at some point. I will look into to this afternoon. Thank you so much!!

He also said, you cant grind m/c brake disks... you just replace them.

Yes, this is my luck.  :D Very good to know though, thank you!  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 19, 2010, 11:13:20 PM
What you described would certainly make a metal on metal sound. I have wondered several times if the screw protruding through the back of the plate was at all to blame since it is so very close to the disc.

Okay, so different manuals may call items different things. I'm thinking when you say brake caliper mounting plate the Agility 50 manual is calling it the Brake Caliper Seat and showing the black metal plate that is on top of the caliper in the first pic here. When you say pinch bolts on the axle, I'm not sure what you mean. For the axle itself I only have the Axle Nut. I do have what the manual is calling Brake Mount Bolts and shows that they go through the holes on the bottom of the shock/fork/tube then through the brake caliper seat in the second pic. This could be what you mean.

I'm reading this over and I'm trying to figure out what to assemble first. I feel like I need about 8 hands...lol.

Then, if I'm understanding correctly, I need to

1.) Put the axle in the wheel
2.) Attach and line up the
       caliper body,
       brake pads, and ------> Do I tighten/torque the Brake Pad Pins now?
       brake disk (adjusting the fork tube as needed) ------> Should I squeeze the brake lever here to make sure it's lined up properly?
3.) Tighten the Axle Nut to the proper torque specs (with the Blue Loc-tite/threadlocker)
4.) Tighten the Brake Mount Bolts to the proper torque specs (with the Blue Loc-tite/threadlocker)??
 
Is this the order to put them back on or even close to what you mean? And do I tighten the Brake Pad Pins with the allen wrench as soon as I place the pads around/over the disc or do those later? And should I squeeze the brake lever to make sure it's lined up properly before I tighten the Axle Nut? MAYBE I can do this by myself...the weather is supposed to be really nice here tomorrow...

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 20, 2010, 08:24:44 AM
I am going to download the service guide and take a look... it will be tomorrow morning...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 20, 2010, 08:48:02 AM
Ok... well, I thought the axle was like mine... its not.

The important thing is to make sure that when you everything is tight, that the caliper body is aligned parallel to the brake disk and does not contact the disk.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 20, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
No problem, TechGuy. I looked back through the posts and tried again to download the service manual from that link you had, but I still can't. I got some weird message I didn't understand from this new operating system so I'm not sure what I would have to download in order to be able to download it. ???

I am going to try to assemble and line up everything properly so that caliper and plate is better positioned and check to see if it is hitting the disc if I do hear noise again. Will let you know how it goes. And just to let you know...some of those black marks came off of the disc when I used that brake clean stuff. Possibly after a few applications it may look much better?
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 21, 2010, 01:30:54 AM
Try one of the green or blue scrubby pads...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 01:35:56 AM
I'm in luck if you mean 3M Scotch-Brite Heavy Duty Scour Pads. I've got exactly 2 left! :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 21, 2010, 01:37:43 AM
One for each pad then...

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 21, 2010, 02:55:07 AM
Perfect!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 02:58:36 AM
Came out nice! Ready to put the caliper on now.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 21, 2010, 03:02:28 AM
Let's hope you've solved the problem.

The suspense is killing me...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 03:22:40 AM
Killing you...Ha! Me too! Got that thing stuck in the brake pin again! I'm workin' on it...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 21, 2010, 03:25:31 AM
Oh, that allen wrench?

It hadn't realized that you ever got it out after the first time!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 04:03:13 AM
Yeah, that first time I had to wait until the next morning. I was too frustrated. I got it out this time.

Okay. (My back is killing me!) It's all together. And...

I can hear the rotor rolling through the pads, but not a loud noise this time. The tire spins around a few times now and stops when I spin it. It does not catch and try to stop like it did before. I won't know 100% for certain until tomorrow when I take it out, but we may have success. :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on November 21, 2010, 03:56:17 PM
Sounds encouraging!  ;)  It's amazing how Techguy met that dealer who had that advice to share!  Yeah, someone's lookin out for you.  ;)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 04:24:06 PM
You're right, Hoolander! It's wonderful, too! I was hopin' to get up and get an early start today, but my back just didn't allow it. Probably for the best anyway. I think everyone in neighborhood decided to rush home early from church today and get out their leaf blowers. I have to go through 2 neighbors' yards (sometimes 3 depending on where folks park their cars) so I'll be checking it all out as soon as they're all done. Feels good seeing the scoot all put back together and the front fender on again and ready to roll! Will post how it goes.  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 06:07:52 PM
Grrr...now it won't start. I should have seen that one coming, right??  :'(  So it goes. I tried hitting the throttle a bit since it's been sitting awhile, but the throttle grip doesn't seem to be making contact or whatever when I turn it. Maybe I pinched a wire or something when I put those handlebar covers back on? I'm sure it's because the weather is so great today and I really want to get a few rides in while it's still warm. On a brighter note, I found the missing files I needed to download the rar files for that other manual and I can actually search for words in that one (like throttle... :).) Off I go to do some more investigating...
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 07:05:14 PM
No pinched wires. Looked under the carb cover. Throttle cable connected and operating properly. Checked the connections on battery and CDI to make sure nothing was loose. There's not a lot of gas in it, but it's got fuel. I took it off the side stand and put it up on the center stand since I figured I wasn't going anywhere any time soon and came back inside. Went outside a few minutes later and it fired right up!? Maybe my scoot decided to have a bit of fun and mess with me. Off to the gas station to see how it does.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
;D ;D ;D WooHooooooooooooo! ;D ;D ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: !!!!
Post by: juice on November 21, 2010, 09:53:01 PM
Im guessing that means you made it to the gas station . CONGRATULATIONS AND GREAT JOB !!!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 09:57:58 PM
Thank you so much, juice!

Yes, I made it to the gas station and went on a long ride...found a nice big hill that was really fun, almost turned around to have a 2nd go at it...then I went and picked up and some more cough drops for my son and stopped at the deli. I didn't want to come home.  :D

No abnormal noises and the scoot feels great again!!  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
*****THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!!*****
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 21, 2010, 10:18:04 PM
Sweet!!! ;D ;D ;D

Great news! 

I very happy for you!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 10:45:20 PM
Thank you, oswaldters! It's gettin' dark here now but I just had to get one more quick ride in...lol. It's chilly out there, now...I see what you mean about cold fingers! Still feels great, though!!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: oswaldters on November 21, 2010, 10:49:28 PM
Now visualize your ride with some led accent lights!

That's great that you were able to get out and ride.  I hope the weather stays warm enough for you to get in lots of riding this week.

And I'm glad we now have a highly experienced front end expert on the forum!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 21, 2010, 11:02:19 PM
Oh yeah...bring on them lights! First I will need to replace my left front turn signal bulb, though. It's not working now.

Me, too...about the weather. I'm gonna go back and find that big loooong hill where I can ride it wide open.  ;D

highly experienced front end expert

I dunno about that  :D I could not have done it without you ALL.  ;)

And I gotta say this again...THANK YOU, TECHGUY!!!  :)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on November 22, 2010, 02:33:50 AM
WhooooHooooo, Rianna!  Awesome!  Brakes work ok, right? 
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 22, 2010, 02:41:22 AM
Those brakes are NICE now, Hoolander!! And no wobbly front end...No noise...I'm lovin' it! :)

Thank you!
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: TechGuy on November 22, 2010, 06:49:45 PM
HOORAY!

I glad all is running great... and noise free.

As to your starting comment... were you trying to start the scoot on the side stand?  If so, there is an interlock switch that prevents the scoot from starting on the side stand.  It will only start on the center stand or "no" stand.  If the scoot is cold and it started on the side stand, the rear wheel will spin and could move the bike and then dump it off the side stand.

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 23, 2010, 01:42:28 AM
Hi, TechGuy. Thank you and I'm glad too!!  :)

Yes, it was on the side stand. I have always started it on the side stand, though, because the ground is not very level or very stable here. I stayed with the scoot, though and just put on my helmet and gloves and such. I put it on the center stand up on the patio stones yesterday so I may have to do that from now on. Hmm...So now I'm wondering why it always started before? Is that switch an electrical switch? I mean maybe there had been a wire pinched before I took the handlebar covers off and now it's freed up again? I didn't know I had one, I thought maybe it was only on the larger models, or someone had disabled mine already.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Hoolander2 on November 23, 2010, 03:44:27 AM
Now we'll want to hear about your RIDING adventures as opposed to your REPAIR adventures.  :D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 23, 2010, 03:53:13 AM
That's right! I worked for it now I'm ready for the fun!!  ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on November 24, 2010, 12:32:13 AM
well sh**, i'm late but WOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D       CONGRATS ON THE RIDE...... feels so much better now huh? :D    speaking of lights, i did install some led side markers on mine today, makes it look a bit cooler... :D ;)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 24, 2010, 01:23:43 AM
Thanks, bat! Yes, feels Great now! Now maybe I can get out and earn a few dollars to get me some fancy lights. I'll never catch up to y'all in the mods department, though!  :D ;D
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: thebatman on November 24, 2010, 01:27:56 AM
depends on the light but advance had a clearance table with streetglow lights.... mine were bought for me... :D    around $15.00 at the parts house..... debating on going downstairs and wiring up those strobes tonight :D.   wish the hippie ppl would come and say hello... :D ;) ::)
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 24, 2010, 01:48:40 AM
lol...DO IT...you'll be happy ya did.  :D Hey, $15 isn't a bad deal!! Thanks...might have to check that out.
Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: Rianna on November 27, 2010, 05:46:58 PM
Just Gotta Say Thank You one more time folks...I found a deal and I was able to buy my son a new Guitar Controller and 5 Guitar Hero and Rock Band games for his birthday with the money I saved for the parts I didn't have to order!! Happy Teenagers are great thing!!! ;D

Title: Re: How to remove the wheel bearings?
Post by: axy on August 18, 2011, 09:48:34 PM
2 front wheel bearings for A50/A125: Kymco original, 45 US$, twice that in my country.

Bought 4 SKF on ebay.de for 7 US$ with shipping!  ;D