KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on June 10, 2021, 12:41:45 AM
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I've never worried about Ethanol free gas because it is not available in my area - so since 2013 I've never used it in a Kymco, Honda, Suzuki, Piaggio scooters - or Yamaha & Honda motorcycles.
Never a problem - all 6 vehicles were EFI. None were garage queens and all were ridden regularly and in all 4 seasons of Ohio weather.
I never use additives because I use only Top Tier pumps at gas stations - and most of the time it is SHELL Nitro premium.
BTW - never used ethanol free gas or additives in my lawnmowers which can sit, unused, for months. Start right up every spring.
I imagine how many new owners are freaking when they read something in his manual which seems to state he must use a fuel which is simply not available in his area. DID the dealer just sell him a grenade - or maybe.... he can relax and use what all the other local riders are using.
I've no idea what the boat dock at the reservoir is selling - but I don't see a line of helmeted guys with gas cans or HD's down there, either.
I wonder, is it time for some new thinking on the use of ethanol fuel .....and modern vehicles?
Stig
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As far as locations there are several web sites that can tell you where ethanol free fuel is located. One is ( pure-gas.org) then type in Ohio or other sites ethenol free gas near me search engine.
If you would like to read more on the subject google (why ethanol is bad for small engines).
Without rehashing past arguments, Ethenol is a hygroscopic fuel ( tendency to absorb water ) ethanol can absorb 50x more water then gasoline.
Diesel is a hygroscopic fuel as well and uses a in line water separator to remove it . In modern Diesel motors the high pressure pump uses 30,000 psi to atomize the fuel into a fine mist. If water is injected under that pressure can be catastrophic for the engine.
The AMA (America motorcycle association ) has written several articles on the subject.
The information is out there if you choose to read it.
One thing from the past I will reiterate, if you use the fuel without it sitting around you should have no issues. I use Ethanol fuel in my truck so not biased against it. Just stating why it might not be the best option for equipment that goes unused for long periods of time.
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The ethanol in fuel isn't really a problem unless you're one of those people who leaves a car/bike standing for months on end, then it can go a bit iffy in the tank.
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The ethanol in fuel isn't really a problem unless you're one of those people who leaves a car/bike standing for months on end, then it can go a bit iffy in the tank.
I've had carburetor problems in as little as 60 days on a Onan generator. Heat and humidity play a role as well. I have bought several Kymco scooters that wouldn't run because of carburetor issue, to my advantage I might add. The first purchase was two Kymco Xiciting 500's that were stored in a storage unit . The temperature in those metal storage units can get very hot of a summer time. If you scan the Craigslist ad's there are lots of scooters with the following by line, (It was running last year when I parked it and it won't start this year).
Fuel Injection has been a blessing for preventing a lot of issues from occurring as well. Nothing wrong with carburetors just can be a little more finicky.
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Used regularly seems to work. My preference is non-ethanol for technical and political reasons. Tech reasons are the mower carbs here that have choked up from winter storage with no Sta-bil (my fault). Another tech reason is mileage is better with non-ethanol. Political reasons center around invalid ecological driven pressure to have the stuff in the first place. Today's corn farmers are now dependent on this inefficient blend.
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…….My preference is non-ethanol for technical and political reasons. ……..
Interesting thread and interesting comments.
As an ex farmer many moons ago I have lots of simpathy with farmers in general. Right or wrong, I think the ethanol issue goes much deeper than political reasons - it’s also about creating many jobs in the farming supplying chain, creating jobs in the processing grain, and earning much needed taxes for any given State or country.
In short - I think the ethanol industry surely have negative consequinces, but the positive results on the economy should never be under-estimated.
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Interesting thread and interesting comments.
As an ex farmer many moons ago I have lots of simpathy with farmers in general. Right or wrong, I think the ethanol issue goes much deeper than political reasons - it’s also about creating many jobs in the farming supplying chain, creating jobs in the processing grain, and earning much needed taxes for any given State or country.
In short - I think the ethanol industry surely have negative consequinces, but the positive results on the economy should never be under-estimated.
Yes, but ethanol gasoline SUX! I might be more in favor of turning organic garbage into fuel than fresh grown corn.
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cheapest reg works for me----secret is ride a lot and often
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I have read that the ethanol in gasoline will eventually destroy the rubber in older fuel systems that were made pre-ethanol. Unfortunately, here in CA we are stuck with ethanol fuel, which is now $4.25/gallon.
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I don't think anyone is making the case that running some ethanol blend gas through your scooter is disastrous. But is it ideal? I'd say no. Ethanol is not great for your engine, but also not great for fuel lines and other rubber/plastic components.
Again, I don't doubt many of you have been running E10 in your scoots for years with no issues. But since ethanol-free gas is readily available in my town, and the additional cost per fill up is literally measured in cents, not dollars, I simply prefer to run the ethanol free fuel. I am sure I'll eventually find myself in need of a fill-up at a station that does not offer ethanol-free gas, and at that point, I am equally sure I can put E10 in my tank and burn it just fine.
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cheapest reg works for me----secret is ride a lot and often
Same for me. Ethanol fuel shouldn't hurt any modern scooter engines as long as they don't sit too long. Let a scooter with a carb sit for more than a few weeks and you may have problems.
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As far as locations there are several web sites that can tell you where ethanol free fuel is located. One is ( pure-gas.org) then type in Ohio or other sites ethenol free gas near me search engine.
There is not a station with ethanol free gas within 30 miles of my scooter. I think I can buy it by the cans from some hardware stores. Gas from a can made by ??, or pumped from a SHELL station?
I choose SHELL....Sunoco, Valero, BP, Amoco, etc. Always Top Tier.
Stig
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There is not a station with ethanol free gas within 30 miles of my scooter. I think I can buy it by the cans from some hardware stores. Gas from a can made by ??, or pumped from a SHELL station?
I choose SHELL....Sunoco, Valero, BP, Amoco, etc. Always Top Tier.
Stig
Stig,it's non-use of the scooter that causes problems . You use yours year round so you shouldn't have a issue. I first used ethanol in my El Camino back in the late 70's and actually ethanol is a good solvent for keeping the fuel ststem clean. The trouble back then was, it was a good solvent dissolving parts that were not compatible. Modern equipment is made to handle 10% blends. Higher concentrations can cause issues.
My mixture of fuel and stabilizer will keep for 2 years. If you own a lot of scooters/motorcycles longevity of fuel is a concern. They actually make a product to counter the effects of ethenol in fuel and sell it at scooter/motorcycle shops.
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I did notice at a Holiday gas station in Minneapolis they sold 110 octane racing fuel for 7.99 a gallon. With a fuel injected engine it could advance timing to the moon without pre ignition knock.
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Non ethanol fuel is easy to find near me, even the Wally World gas station sells it. Its also a lot more expensive than gas with ethanol. I can't see any justification for using ethanol free. Even my 19 year old lawnmower hasn't had any problems using ethanol gas.
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What needs to be rethought is this the ethanol idea. Worse gas mileage, worse for the environment, harder on equipment and has extremely for longevity.
Like everyone has said, in newer equipment the issue is it's longevity if used for a while. In older equipment it does all seals, and helped him up carburetors.
I love using "pure" gas when I can and it makes sense. But I don't fret over it if I can't.
Ps. But you are absolutely throwing your money away with quote unquote premium gas. Your scooters don't have high compression motors therefore it's useless to you The hierarchy will do absolutely nothing for you in the additives or a joke.
There's only ever been quorum code two additives that I've ever used and could kind of stay in behind. The first means to seafoam, she uses a stabilizer and a cleaner periodically. Any other is Marvel's Mr Earl which I used before oil changes. Or when cleaning out parts that I've just ordered.
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I use Shell premium (10% ethanol) in my fuel injected Like 150i with no problem.
I add Sea Foam (and marine grade Sta-Bil in the winter)
May not be necessary, but I like Sea Foam.
I had a plugged carburetor in a Husqvarna leaf blower. I poured it full of Sea Foam through the air intake and let it set overnight.
The next day, it started on the second pull.
Harvest King Motor Treatment HK-100 is $2.33 per can and is generic Sea Foam.
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I use Shell premium (10% ethanol) in my fuel injected Like 150i with no problem.
I add Sea Foam (and marine grade Sta-Bil in the winter)
May not be necessary, but I like Sea Foam.
I had a plugged carburetor in a Husqvarna leaf blower. I poured it full of Sea Foam through the air intake and let it set overnight.
The next day, it started on the second pull.
Harvest King Motor Treatment HK-100 is $2.33 per can and is generic Sea Foam.
Husqvarna has a article explaining why you shouldn't use Ethanol fuel in Husqvarna basics , they state you should replace the ethanol fuel every two to three weeks to avoid water damage in small engines. Briggs & Stratton also has a article on why you shouldn't use it , but what do these people know they only build it.
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Interesting thread and interesting comments.
As an ex farmer many moons ago I have lots of simpathy with farmers in general. Right or wrong, I think the ethanol issue goes much deeper than political reasons - it’s also about creating many jobs in the farming supplying chain, creating jobs in the processing grain, and earning much needed taxes for any given State or country.
In short - I think the ethanol industry surely have negative consequinces, but the positive results on the economy should never be under-estimated.
Scooterfan the big market is automobiles and trucks I doubt the scooter / small engine market will hurt the farmers.
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My last reply on this subject, feel it's beating a dead horse. Do as you wish it's your equipment. Why is there a multitude of products on the market to avoid the effects of ethanol fuel? Why do several small engine manufacturers recommend not using it in their equipment? Why is there a multitude of articles written about the subject? Do you think you know more then the people who designed the equipment? I beleive in fact not opinion.
I purchase several scooters a year and know from my experience what can happen. I have even posted a picture of a carburetor gunned up so severely it had to be replaced. I've had to clean a multitude of carburetors from from scooters that had sat with ethenol fuel . I've had to replace damaged fuel pump assembles that have sat with contaminated ethanol fuel. The famous quote from owners ( It ran fine last year when I parked it now it won't start).
You can give me all the antidotal evidence and opinion you wish I will follow the manufacturer's recommendations who design and built the equipment. Like I said do as you wish your equipment. I'm done with the subject.
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In Australia, ethanol-free fuel is supplied as 91/95/98 RON and Is readily available almost everywhere. E10 can be found at most stations, is slightly cheaper and sold as 93/94 RON.