KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WEL on March 17, 2021, 08:10:02 PM
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Hi AK550 Owners.
I have about 700 miles on my AK550. From the beginning I noticed a vibration, may more of clunk during deceleration at about 20-22 mph (32-35 kph).
My guess is it's the clutch/transmission disengaging or something like that. The scooter runs fine, without any noticeable issues.
Changed the oil and filter about 100 miles ago and no change and runs great.
Have any other AK owners noticed this characteristic?
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Hope the vibration goes away. Doesn't seem to be engine related to me. Make sure your tires are properly inflated. Check tires for any flaws. I am still waiting for my AK550 to come in. I am curious as to what speeds you are riding during break-in. My dealer is an hour away from my home. I am going to have to ride the AK550 home on a highway. Not looking forward to that part of my purchase. Let me know if you get your vibration problem solved. Good Luck!
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New AK550? Jealous? Who, me?
Enjoy the ride and don't forget the photos. As is often said on here, "No pictures? It didn't happen!" Oh yes, and welcome to the forum!
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Good to know there are a few ak 550 owners out there. I don't think this bike was introduced in the US until 2021 (could be wrong), anyway I bought an ak550 3 weeks ago from a dealer in Phoenix, az. It was the company's demo and had 438 miles on lit. I was always reluctant to buy a demo "cuz it could have been ridden hard in the 1st couple of hundred miles. This one though was in perfect condition with absolutely no problems. I'm very happy since I have had many scooters in my life but not one with the power of a motorcycle.
To address the problem you brought up. I find that I get intermittent vibration (thru the foot board) when I not putting the engine under load such as when I'm going 56-60 on level ground while backing off the throttle a bit and not losing speed. Otherwise I don't get the feeling. I have a Piaggio BV 500 also and find that that happens to it as well but not as noticeable. I suspect this will go away with more bread-in time.
WEL, thanks for starting a conversation.
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WEL, did you ever find out what was causing your problem? Interested to know. I haven’t had this problem, at least so far. :)
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I haven't taken in to the dealer. I only feel the brief vibration slowing downs at right at about 22-20 MPH. It runs great and I'm not sure if it's just a characteristic of the scooter.
It may well be. All scooters have their own idiosyncrasies in my experience. I was concerned about vibes at 60 mph earlier and these have virtually disappeared now the motor has a few 000 miles on it! Ride, enjoy, repeat!
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Mine does the exact same thing...did you ever figure it out?
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I guess what matters more is at about what RPM does this happen. I know it's hard to determine very closely what the RPM is with the segmented meter for it. My Burgman clutch totally lets go at 1500 rpm and that is very noticeable even with the newer model that has the clutch with less drag. I also know that the AK 550 revs higher than my Burgman does. I did the chance to test ride one last week, twice, but didn't notice any significant vibes that caught my attention.
As soon as my Burgman 650 sells I'll be wheeling and dealing with a dealer willing to talk to me who has one of these.
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Was there a comment you wanted to put along with that quote? Outside the quote box please so it can be easily seen. Or is this just an attempt at a duplicate posting? ;)
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Rubber Band drive scooters do have clutch dis-engage on decel....bike free wheels to stop. Just the way it is----maybe you are new to this type of drive line---I have had 11 new Maxi scooters and over 400,000 miles with them---all feel the same. No fix.
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Every time I read someone talk about a "rubber band" drive I can't help but wonder if they really understand much about the belts in the CVT regardless how many scooters they've owned or how long they've owned them. While the belt in the CVT IS made of mostly rubber it is the same kind of construction as the drive belt in the final drive of Harley Davidson, some BMW, and several other motorcycles. Not much stretch to them. But then I did have one person describe why they call it a rubber band FEELING... it was to them due to the very slight hesitation between twisting the throttle to feeling the power at the rear wheel. So NOTHING to do with what I think of when I hear "rubber band" drive.
I haven't had a lot of CVT scooters but I've done all maintenance and ridden my wife's Honda Metropolitan since 2004 and I've owned and ridden and done almost all maintenance on 2 Burgman 650 scoots over the years between then and now. It's not always a matter of how many owned or how many years but rather how much learned. Some riders can own something for a year and learn more about it than others who have owned several of the same model for a few decades.
And it is true... if due to the clutch releasing and not some other problem then there is no fix.
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yeah, talk about the clutch releasing...my Helix at around 12-13 mph has the clutch disengage and it is very noticeable...I'm slowing down, down, down...waiting...and boom!...clutch disengages and scoot free wheels forward. Nothing wrong with it, like you guys said..it's just the way the driveline works.
I also think John Grinsel calls them 'rubber band drive' scooters somewhat tongue in cheek... 8)
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Was there a comment you wanted to put along with that quote? Outside the quote box please so it can be easily seen. Or is this just an attempt at a duplicate posting? ;)
OOPS :P :)
I didnt realize id done that. Thank ya, sir.
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Have you gotten any insight here?
Im still really trying to figure it out...i still refuse to believe its a defect that makes yours and mine do exactly the same thing
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I guess what matters more is at about what RPM does this happen. I know it's hard to determine very closely what the RPM is with the segmented meter for it. My Burgman clutch totally lets go at 1500 rpm and that is very noticeable even with the newer model that has the clutch with less drag. I also know that the AK 550 revs higher than my Burgman does. I did the chance to test ride one last week, twice, but didn't notice any significant vibes that caught my attention.
As soon as my Burgman 650 sells I'll be wheeling and dealing with a dealer willing to talk to me who has one of these.
On mine, this happens right when the tachometer drops off the 3000 bar...just a slight little "thump"
Its driving me neutz
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On mine, this happens right when the tachometer drops off the 3000 bar...just a slight little "thump"
Its driving me neutz
I get a brief thump on deceleration at 2000rpm on my Downtown 350i. I don't notice it anymore and don't care after seeing no damage or wear on the transmission after 20,000km.
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Assuming something is at fault to cause that thump on decel of this big heavy scooter...what could one imagine it to be?
I'm no expert, but I seriously doubt that there is anything at fault causing this sensation on your scooter. I suspect that a tear-down would reveal that nothing is out of spec.
What does your dealer say?
Stig
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Hi AK550 Owners.
I have about 700 miles on my AK550. From the beginning I noticed a vibration, may more of clunk during deceleration at about 20-22 mph (32-35 kph).
My guess is it's the clutch/transmission disengaging or something like that. The scooter runs fine, without any noticeable issues.
Changed the oil and filter about 100 miles ago and no change and runs great.
Have any other AK owners noticed this characteristic?
You get any ideas on this issue yet?
Been waiting to hear back from you
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I get a brief thump on deceleration at 2000rpm on my Downtown 350i. I don't notice it anymore and don't care after seeing no damage or wear on the transmission after 20,000km.
Thats comforting. :D
Im sure im just being hyper-anal since this is the first brand new vehicle ive ever bought
Id hate to ignore a developing problem until the warranty wears out and it becomes critical
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Assuming something is at fault to cause that thump on decel of this big heavy scooter...what could one imagine it to be?
I'm no expert, but I seriously doubt that there is anything at fault causing this sensation on your scooter. I suspect that a tear-down would reveal that nothing is out of spec.
What does your dealer say?
Stig
My first instinct was that its the clutch popping open...but if so, it would occur on all the AK550s and probably any other similarly designed clutch...I dont get it on my yamaha majesty 400, but thats a different configuration as you probably know.
Ive never dug into a setup like this one so im just not very confident in diagnosing
The guys in the service department pretty much dismissed it when i first described it to them but after bringing it up again they said i can drop it off and they'll look at it.
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The guys in the service department pretty much dismissed it when i first described it to them but after bringing it up again they said i can drop it off and they'll look at it.
Interestingly pretty much the same response I got to my noisy take-off on my new XTown 300... Until the transmission failed completely some 500 miles later! Turns out a variator nut hadn't been correctly torqued up at the factory ::) The good news is it was sorted quickly under warranty and there have been no further issues.
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Hi AK550 Owners.
I have about 700 miles on my AK550. From the beginning I noticed a vibration, may more of clunk during deceleration at about 20-22 mph (32-35 kph).
My guess is it's the clutch/transmission disengaging or something like that. The scooter runs fine, without any noticeable issues.
Changed the oil and filter about 100 miles ago and no change and runs great.
Have any other AK owners noticed this characteristic?
Wel?
Did you find anything out?
Are you still having the problem?
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Wel?
Did you find anything out?
Are you still having the problem?
Yep, we're all on tenterhooks!
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Yep, we're all on tenterhooks!
I need CLOSURE!!
:D
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Good to know there are a few ak 550 owners out there. I don't think this bike was introduced in the US until 2021 (could be wrong), anyway I bought an ak550 3 weeks ago from a dealer in Phoenix, az. It was the company's demo and had 438 miles on lit. I was always reluctant to buy a demo "cuz it could have been ridden hard in the 1st couple of hundred miles. This one though was in perfect condition with absolutely no problems. I'm very happy since I have had many scooters in my life but not one with the power of a motorcycle.
To address the problem you brought up. I find that I get intermittent vibration (thru the foot board) when I not putting the engine under load such as when I'm going 56-60 on level ground while backing off the throttle a bit and not losing speed. Otherwise I don't get the feeling. I have a Piaggio BV 500 also and find that that happens to it as well but not as noticeable. I suspect this will go away with more bread-in time.
WEL, thanks for starting a conversation.
Does your belt sit all the way to the left in the wheel sprocket? Mine is almost touching the little wall enclosing the left side...i feel like it should be more centered
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Does your belt sit all the way to the left in the wheel sprocket? Mine is almost touching the little wall enclosing the left side...i feel like it should be more centered
I've noticed that on a few AK scooters I've looked. The one I test rode in Fort Smith and also one who's owner posted pics on the ADV Rider forum. Both were much closer to the left side of the rear sprocket than the right side. I mentioned on that other forum that the service manual indicates that there should be a space of more than 1 mm on either side of the belt to the sides of the sprocket. That actually means one side can be close and the other will have much more space showing. As long as it doesn't wander side to side. It doesn't really need to be centered unless you are just "that way" about things. :D
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I've noticed that on a few AK scooters I've looked. The one I test rode in Fort Smith and also one who's owner posted pics on the ADV Rider forum. Both were much closer to the left side of the rear sprocket than the right side. I mentioned on that other forum that the service manual indicates that there should be a space of more than 1 mm on either side of the belt to the sides of the sprocket. That actually means one side can be close and the other will have much more space showing. As long as it doesn't wander side to side. It doesn't really need to be centered unless you are just "that way" about things. :D
Thanks for the reply! Much appreciate it.
I didnt really realize i was "that way" about things until i got this new bike...Gonna need to work on that a little :)
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Dealer service center checked it out and said its nothing to worry about...just the clutch releasing.
Im still skeptical.
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Thanks for the reply! Much appreciate it.
I didnt really realize i was "that way" about things until i got this new bike...Gonna need to work on that a little :)
No worries.
It's a new machine for you. I'm exactly "that way" about my new machine even if it is a used machine but just new to me so I am VERY familiar with that. ;D
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Thats comforting. :D
Im sure im just being hyper-anal since this is the first brand new vehicle ive ever bought
Id hate to ignore a developing problem until the warranty wears out and it becomes critical
If it is like other Kymco scooters - relax- you have 2 years on the drive-train warranty.
Stig
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If it is like other Kymco scooters - relax- you have 2 years on the drive-train warranty.
Stig
Thats kind of where im at with it...if it causes a breakdown within the 2 year window, then im good...and if it doesnt cause a breakdown by the time 2 years are up, its probably not going to.
Especially since i do about 700 miles a week with it.
(doordash)
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We never did hear a word back from the guy that started this thread, did we...
::) :o :-\
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Nope. Not yet...
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I *may* have found your vibration/thump. I just got done swapping my rollers out for 15g sliders. And I was able to create what think is the effect your talking about.
With everything apart I tried creating this issue and I was able to under the following conditions.
1) rollers or sliders werent seated right.
2) the variator bolt wasn't torqued enough. This one's a hard one is the spec is so open about how much to torque the bolt.
3) a variation on #1
Basically what I could recreate was the variator would break loose or snap out de-accelerating under 2800-4200 rpms. It appears the belt applies to much press and there isn't enough resistance from the variator to slowly move back out to it's at rest location and it just jump out alittle.
Also that video about replacing the variator on the AK is F'ing awful! Not only does It just plainly leave out a bunch of stuff, a glasses over all the small stuff as well! I wouldn't even call it a reference at this point. It was enough to show you all the large pieces and play.... But it's all the small stuff that really is what matters!!!
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I *may* have found your vibration/thump. I just got done swapping my rollers out for 15g sliders. And I was able to create what think is the effect your talking about.
With everything apart I tried creating this issue and I was able to under the following conditions.
1) rollers or sliders werent seated right.
2) the variator bolt wasn't torqued enough. This one's a hard one is the spec is so open about how much to torque the bolt.
3) a variation on #1
Basically what I could recreate was the variator would break loose or snap out de-accelerating under 2800-4200 rpms. It appears the belt applies to much press and there isn't enough resistance from the variator to slowly move back out to it's at rest location and it just jump out alittle.
Also that video about replacing the variator on the AK is F'ing awful! Not only does It just plainly leave out a bunch of stuff, a glasses over all the small stuff as well! I wouldn't even call it a reference at this point. It was enough to show you all the large pieces and play.... But it's all the small stuff that really is what matters!!!
I'm certainly no mechanical expert, and only toss these thoughts out there with that much weight behind them....
I think roller weights 'cannot' be miss-seated from the factory - unless they have now worn so far (thousands of miles of riding) that they have shrunken in their seats. A miss- seated weight would prevent the parts from closing properly - and would cause severe issues and be quickly noted on the first ride. (new scooters do not come with Dr P slide weights)
And as for a variator nut not reaching the proper torque: the torque figure is supplied to insure that it does not come loose (or is so massively over-torqued that it destroys something) I'm thinking it is either loose, and finger tight flopping, or tight enough to secure the parts. I don't see that there is any in-between: it is either loose, or it is not....and again it would show itself very, very soon ---within a mile down the road.
I offer these counter-remarks because I think we might be unnecessarily alarming the fellow who is hearing/feeling something on his 550. I for one - do not think there is a mechanical fault at work in his scooter.
Stig
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I'm certainly no mechanical expert, and only toss these thoughts out there with that much weight behind them....
I think roller weights 'cannot' be miss-seated from the factory - unless they have now worn so far (thousands of miles of riding) that they have shrunken in their seats. A miss- seated weight would prevent the parts from closing properly - and would cause severe issues and be quickly noted on the first ride. (new scooters do not come with Dr P slide weights)
And as for a variator nut not reaching the proper torque: the torque figure is supplied to insure that it does not come loose (or is so massively over-torqued that it destroys something) I'm thinking it is either loose, and finger tight flopping, or tight enough to secure the parts. I don't see that there is any in-between: it is either loose, or it is not....and again it would show itself very, very soon ---within a mile down the road.
I offer these counter-remarks because I think we might be unnecessarily alarming the fellow who is hearing/feeling something on his 550. I for one - do not think there is a mechanical fault at work in his scooter.
Stig
And you very well would be right. But the fact remains that if I used the lower end of the torque spec I got a thump on decel. And just because some comes from a factory doesn't mean it's perfect. That variator cover could be just slightly cockeyed or sticking on one side. Which what result in a weight offset issue.
And again, as I've said on a few of these threads; mine doesn't have this thump or vibration on decel. And I could only create one by creating these two issues. Take it for what it's worth or not.
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Wouldn’t be the first time the factory had omitted to correctly torque up a variator nut... The cause of my warranty claim at <700 miles!
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I *may* have found your vibration/thump. I just got done swapping my rollers out for 15g sliders. And I was able to create what think is the effect your talking about.
With everything apart I tried creating this issue and I was able to under the following conditions.
1) rollers or sliders werent seated right.
2) the variator bolt wasn't torqued enough. This one's a hard one is the spec is so open about how much to torque the bolt.
3) a variation on #1
Basically what I could recreate was the variator would break loose or snap out de-accelerating under 2800-4200 rpms. It appears the belt applies to much press and there isn't enough resistance from the variator to slowly move back out to it's at rest location and it just jump out alittle.
Is that right!! Interesting...most interesting...
Thank you for the help by the way! Immensely appreciated.
The only thing that comes to mind as i mull that over is that it DOESNT do it, under any load or RPM unless i get it up to about 40 mph...that makes me think it has something to do with the secondary pully (driven pully) returning to its fully open state because i think that one doesnt start to close until you get moving a bit...I THINK...I had it in my head that the variator end closes up first off.
I might have that all backward...i do that a lot
Another thing is that if i brake real hard i cant feel it NEARLY as much...more of a little "pop" is all
But if i let the engine slow it down and dont use the brakes as much it becomes a bit of a "bang"
Happens right at 23mph either way
Approaching 1500 miles and it doesnt seem to be getting any better OR any worse...Which is kind of annoying on its own! :D
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I just wish id bought it off Amazon
Send it back for a new one
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@jermwars, I do not have a AK 550, and it's a pity to have such an issue on a brandnew bike.
I would try a little bit shorter drivebelt than the mounted one. Could be completely wrong, but if it would bother me that much I would risk this $$ just for the point.
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@jermwars, I do not have a AK 550, and it's a pity to have such an issue on a brandnew bike.
That part is what really gets me...And the fact that its not an isolated issue.
I didnt even start this thread! I just have the EXACT same issue that WEL does.
Exactly the same as what he described.
I think he forgot he started the thread because i havent heard back from him and its been a couple weeks now
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ON any CVT both pulleys have to change at exactly the same time if it is running right. There is no delay with either pulley changing "after" the other but both change at the same time. The only case where that is even possible is if the wrong belt that is too long and doesn't belong on this CVT at all is installed. In that case nothing will work right from the start and you would get NO movement to the rear wheel or even the clutch since a wrong belt like that would simply spin or slip on the pulleys and not grab at any speed.
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ON any CVT both pulleys have to change at exactly the same time if it is running right. There is no delay with either pulley changing "after" the other but both change at the same time. The only case where that is even possible is if the wrong belt that is too long and doesn't belong on this CVT at all is installed. In that case nothing will work right from the start and you would get NO movement to the rear wheel or even the clutch since a wrong belt like that would simply spin or slip on the pulleys and not grab at any speed.
right, right...that makes sense...otherwise the belt would have to change sizes
that should have dawned on me
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I have 24,000km on my DT350 and the thump on deceleration is mostly gone. It could have been the belt change at 20,000km or transmission components have finally broken in.
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I have 24,000km on my DT350 and the thump on deceleration is mostly gone. It could have been the belt change at 20,000km or transmission components have finally broken in.
man, id just LOVE for it to simply go away...im sooo close to tearing into it but I JUST DONT WANT TO tear into a brand new bike...with a full/valid warranty
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ITS GONE!!!!
After 6500 (ish) miles the "thump" is completely gone. I cant feel it or make it happen under any circumstances.
The guy at KymCo service was right.
I officially take back some of the crap i talked about them.
:D
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Great news! Mirrors my experience with the X-T300 when new. The transmission roughness under load smoothed out at about 1,000 miles.
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After only 1400 reads the problem with the new 550 healed itself!
Thank goodness :)
Stig
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We never did hear a word back from the guy that started this thread, did we...
::) :o :-\
Didn't realize my had so many responses and I wasn't alone (or crazy). I had to take break, but starting riding again. Still feel the clunk, but seems to be less intense. Early February will be 1 year since I picked it up.
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Didn't realize my had so many responses and I wasn't alone (or crazy). I had to take break, but starting riding again. Still feel the clunk, but seems to be less intense. Early February will be 1 year since I picked it up.
How many miles have you racked up on it?
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I have tried to note if mine every did that vibration or shudder or clunk at deceleration. I cannot say that I have ever really felt it. I do feel when the clutch lets go but I really can't say that it was a clunk or vibration when that happens, just a release of engine drag. I now have 1339 miles on mine. So I guess if it was going to do it I'm past the time to notice.
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I have tried to note if mine every did that vibration or shudder or clunk at deceleration. I cannot say that I have ever really felt it. I do feel when the clutch lets go but I really can't say that it was a clunk or vibration when that happens, just a release of engine drag. I now have 1339 miles on mine. So I guess if it was going to do it I'm past the time to notice.
I feel ridiculous now for having obsessed so much over it. Just glad I didn't waste the effort of tearing it down since it was never broken.
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After only 1400 reads the problem with the new 550 healed itself!
Thank goodness :)
Stig
Self healing vehicles, it's a thing! Readers' Digest version, driving down to Devon last week we were irritated by a strange vibration from the wife's Range Rover. Eventually located it to the top of the windscreen (windshield) seal which had lifted about 10mm and was vibrating in the wind at about 70 mph.
Decided to fix it myself with a tube of silicone sealant which I ordered from Amazon. This arrived yesterday and so I mooched out to effect the repair. To my surprise I discover the seal is now lying flat and no amount of gentle "encouragement" prising with the blade of a knife would persuade it to unseat itself again! After a few attempts I decided that brute force would only make things worse, so I've put the sealant (which fortunately remained unopened) on the shelf in the garage just in case it lifts again.
Life occasionally throws up these mysteries!
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I have tried to note if mine every did that vibration or shudder or clunk at deceleration. I cannot say that I have ever really felt it. I do feel when the clutch lets go but I really can't say that it was a clunk or vibration when that happens, just a release of engine drag. I now have 1339 miles on mine. So I guess if it was going to do it I'm past the time to notice.
Ive noticed I do feel it EVER SO slightly under just the right circumstances...when its cold, just the right acceleration/deceleration and its absolutely not something anyone would notice unless they tried really hard like i have been.
Im just so grateful that it didnt end up being degenerative. Never would have imagined it being regenerative :D
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Self healing vehicles, it's a thing! Readers' Digest version, driving down to Devon last week we were irritated by a strange vibration from the wife's Range Rover. Eventually located it to the top of the windscreen (windshield) seal which had lifted about 10mm and was vibrating in the wind at about 70 mph.
Decided to fix it myself with a tube of silicone sealant which I ordered from Amazon. This arrived yesterday and so I mooched out to effect the repair. To my surprise I discover the seal is now lying flat and no amount of gentle "encouragement" prising with the blade of a knife would persuade it to unseat itself again! After a few attempts I decided that brute force would only make things worse, so I've put the sealant (which fortunately remained unopened) on the shelf in the garage just in case it lifts again.
Life occasionally throws up these mysteries!
I had a feeling this might work itself out and i was getting my panties all twisted up over nothing once i saw this guy had the exact same issue. Suddenly it was no longer an anomaly...prior to that i was convincing myself that the dealer was jerking me around.
Thank god for the internet.
LONG LIVE KymcoForum.com!!!
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I'm glad that it worked itself out for you.