KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: pa-outdoorsman on March 17, 2021, 03:54:24 PM
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Well guys, as you know it's been a long time in coming, but I finally pulled the trigger on my first scooter! Alas. It. Is. Not. A. Kymco.
Thankfully, everyone is so nice on this board and I know lots of you also own non-Kymco machines. So, I feel pretty confident I will not be excommunicated for this offense.
So, what did I get, you ask? A 2021 Honda ADV 150. This is the best-looking small scoot available in the US today, IMO. Also pretty feature rich compared to other available options in the 150-200 range. But I won't go into all that here. Suffice it to say I am excited about the new ride and can't wait to hit the road.
I actually found this scooter "used" online from a dealer in Massachusetts. It has 148 miles on it, and I was able to get a good deal that allowed me to avoid all the destination and junk fees you'd pay if you get one new. One local Honda dealer quoted me $5,400 OTD for a new unit he had in stock. I ended that with a quick, "No thanks." I basically consider this one brand new. It was titled last August and traded into the dealer in November.
Anyway, for those who are interested, here are a few photos. I can post some actual photos after I pick it up, but I promise not to bore everyone here on the Kymco board with a bunch of Honda talk.
Happy riding!
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Looks a great scooter with it's lookalike Ohlins piggy back shocks - I take it they're not Ohlins? Keep us posted on the owning experience. As you say I don't think we're too purist about non-Kymco posts here. Enjoy the ride, two wheels is the main thing, brand is secondary!
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Front and rear suspension on the ADV 150 both from Showa.
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Very nice! ;)
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Congratulation, good looking ride,
keen to see more.
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Unless the previous owner pushed off a tall building there is limited possibility anything is wrong with it so you are the WINNER! C'mon down!
Doncha dare be a clam about this. We wanna know, blow by blow, your experience! Remember, no Honda, no Kymco. Or at best Kymco facilities would be making fry pans!
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Unless the previous owner pushed off a tall building there is limited possibility anything is wrong with it so you are the WINNER! C'mon down!
Doncha dare be a clam about this. We wanna know, blow by blow, your experience! Remember, no Honda, no Kymco. Or at best Kymco facilities would be making fry pans!
The dealer assures me the bike is pristine. Certainly looks so in the photos, and as you note, with only 148 miles, the first owner never even made it through the break-in period! In fact, factory warranty is still good until August. So, I figure that give me plenty of time to put some miles on and see if anything possibly needs fixing.
As for my experience, that'll begin next weekend when I drive up to get the bike and trailer it home. Then, it's just up to Mother Nature to see how soon, or often, I'll have decent riding weather. At any rate, it won't be long now, and I'll be ready to roll once the sun starts shining on a regular basis.
I also liked your comment about Honda. I guess you are right; Kymco got its start making parts for Hondas. Not sure if they still do, but maybe there's a Kymco item somewhere inside my new machine...
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the more scooter talk, the better! Please let us know your riding impressions, maintenance, etc. as time goes on.
congratulations!
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I wasn't sure.
Did he get married?
Sat for that root canal he's been putting off?
Join the Marines?
A Honda?!
Best there is on two wheels. ..IMHO.
(Though, those blue & white Super Cubs are the best looking Honda scooters sold in the States...imho.😊 )
Good for you!
If it does what you want it to do - it'll be a peach.
As with most scooter forums - we like scooters here. All scooters! (although some Honda forum guys are getting mighty tired of my Kymco snd Piaggio photos😊
Keep pix and comments coming if you have the time!
Enjoy
Stig
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I wasn't sure.
Did he get married?
Sat for that root canal he's been putting off?
Join the Marines?
A Honda?!
Best there is on two wheels. ..IMHO.
(Though, those blue & white Super Cubs are the best looking Honda scooters sold in the States...imho.😊 )
Good for you!
If it does what you want it to do - it'll be a peach.
As with most scooter forums - we like scooters here. All scooters! (although some Honda forum guys are getting mighty tired of my Kymco snd Piaggio photos😊
Keep pix and comments coming if you have the time!
Enjoy
Stig
Stig, enjoyed the humor. I've been married 24 years. My teeth are in great shape. And I'm way too old to join the Marines at this point.
Thanks for your approval of my choice of brand, if not choice of styling. Based on your Like, I believe you prefer a more traditional "European" scooter design. It was said that Honda developed the ADV 150, at least in part, in an effort to attract new scooters riders, and hopefully I am just one of many folks who will jump on board thanks in part to the modern design style. It's definitely a "different" look within the scooter category.
As for the Super Cubs, they look like something right out the 1950s to me. They are cool, and the guy at the Honda dealer I visited made sure to point out that it is the single best-selling vehicle of all time. I believe Honda recently celebrated the sale of its 2 millionth unit. That's A LOT of Super Cubs, and you can only imagine the combined total of mileage that machine has done since its inception.
Since all you guys seem pretty eager for more "scooter talk," I'll be sure to let you all know how I'm liking the ADV and share some additional photos once I get the unit home and get riding.
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I like it! congrats. I've had a couple of pcx 150's and very good scoots. keep us posted, be curious as to how it performs, think you're going to be happy
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I like it! congrats. I've had a couple of pcx 150's and very good scoots. keep us posted, be curious as to how it performs, think you're going to be happy
It has the same engine as the PCX 150 and is largely based on the same platform. I know the PCX has a great reputation as a bulletproof machine so hopefully this proves just as dependable.
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That is a good looking scooter. I think you did great. If my wife didn't care about riding some, I would have looked seriously at the ADV 150. Good Luck!
Should be bulletproof. Have fun. :)
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I'm sitting here in the rain, in the dark, on the Group W Bench.....and these guys want to know what you paid out the door for this Honda.
Mind, me?....I wouldn't ask😊
So what can a lightly used one be had for?
(another great sentence. ...but it's raining on my head...)
Stig
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I'm sitting here in the rain, in the dark, on the Group W Bench.....and these guys want to know what you paid out the door for this Honda.
Mind, me?....I wouldn't ask😊
So what can a lightly used one be had for?
(another great sentence. ...but it's raining on my head...)
Stig
Ah, this is a GOOD question! I thought about whether to answer, and ultimately decided to do so, in hopes it will be of use to others. But first, a bit of context:
As with all financial transactions, the price of anything is determined by WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR. This is Economics 101. Now, to bring this to the scooter market, we have an interesting situation this year with a couple "new" models available. My ADV 150 is a brand new model in the small scooter class, and the AK550 is a brand new model in the maxi-scooter class. Both seem to be generating good interest in their respective market segments, and as several posters on this forum have noted, inventory seems to be in relatively short supply. It doesn't take a genius to know that short supply and high demand typically yields higher pricing.
With that said, let's also acknowledge what MANY folks have acknowledged on this forum over the years. Every scooter has an MSRP, and then there's the OTD (out the door) price. It doesn't really matter what the MSRP is, because your ACTUAL COST is the OTD price. And you can play with the different pieces and part of the total all you want, but nothing matters except OTD. In other words, you can "negotiate" a price down as low as you want, but if the dealer still insists on marking up the OTD price with a variety of "freight," "assembly" and "prep" fees, it's all for naught.
With my particular purchase, I went into the whole process knowing the MSRP on the ADV 150 is $4,299. Honda also lists a $380 dealer freight fee in smaller print on their website. So, in reality, the lowest advertised price for one of these machines is $4,679. But of course, that still does not include any dealer setup charges, doc fees, tax, title or registration. So, what your final OTD price would be is anyone's guess. I can tell you I was quoted "roughly" $5,400 by a local Honda dealer who has one of the ADV 150s in stock. That seemed quite high to me, and certainly more than I was willing to pay. But, given the newness of the scooter and limited inventory, I imagine they will probably find someone willing to pay that. And I figure the dealer shares my opinion and so was in no rush to offer me a better deal.
In searching on Cycle Trader, I found a grand total of a dozen or so "used" ADV 150s available nationwide. Again, being a new model that made its U.S. debut last summer, there are not that many of these machines out there, and definitely not many used ones available. If you want a PCX 150, you can find them plentiful on places such as Facebook Marketplace, but trying to find a used ADV 150 is kind of like a needle in a haystack. I am sure in another year or two, that won't be the case, but right now they are scarce.
One of the nicest used bikes I found, and the one I ultimately purchased, was listed online for $3,999. As it has only 148 miles, that seemed pretty reasonable to me, especially if you factor in the $5,400 OTD price I was quoted for a new unit. That's a $1,400 savings for 1,40 miles, or roughly a $10 per mile depreciation! I reached out to the dealer and had hoped to perhaps get the machine for $3,700, but not only were they firm on the price, they wanted to add dealer fees that brought the total to $4,600. I told them that was out of the question, and I really did not want to pay more than $4,000. The salesman did the whole "talk to my manager and I'll get back to you" thing.
In the meantime, I called a second dealer in Massachusetts that had a used machine with 500 miles advertised for $4,295. I was able to get the price of the bike down to $4,000, but he insisted that the state requires a $295 "doc fee" on every transaction. I say BS, but bottom line was $4,300 OTD. I tell the guy it's not a bad price; I'll think about it and get back to you.
Then the guy from the first dealer calls me back and says the manager agreed to knock $300 off the price, so $4,300 OTD. So, now I have my choice of two bikes, each at $4,300 OTD. What to do? Do I really want to buy one of these? Am I going to walk away for $300? So, I think about it overnight and call the first dealer back the next day and tell him I'll take the bike with 148 miles for $4,300 OTD.
That means I purchased a 2021 scoot with 148 miles for the actual MSRP of the machine. At first glance, that might not seem like a great deal. But if you actually try to shop for one of these machines, it's actually about the best deal you can get right now. Again, I am sure prices will moderate in time, but if you want one of these RIGHT NOW, I believe that's about the best the market will bear from a dealer. It's worth noting that I have seen just a few of these bikes pop up on Cycle Trader for private sale, and you MIGHT be able to get one for $3,500-$3,900. However, it has to be close enough to you that you can actually get there, and you have to beat everyone else to the seller's door with CASH IN HAND or you lose out. So, again, if you want to be patient and play that game, you can certainly do that and you might get lucky. Or, you can just pay a little more, work with a dealer and get a bike.
One final note worth mentioning is that, since I am buying this bike out of state, I do not have to pay sales tax or any DMV fees as part of the purchase. So, once I get it home to Pennsylvania, I'll have to go to the DMV here and pay the 6% sales tax on what I paid for the bike, plus a $55 title fee and a $20 annual registration fee. That'll add another $315 in order to get a plate on the scooter and be legal to hit the road. Bottom line, that's still $800 less than what I was quoted for a new unit. Granted, I have to drive to go get it, but my folks live not far from the dealer and I'm going to stop for an overnight visit. Haven't seen my mom and Dad since the pandemic started (Dad is 86 and Mom is 80; just got their vaccines) so that's actually kind of a bonus to the whole thing.
FWIW: I arranged for insurance, and that's going to cost me about $150 for a whole year, which seems like peanuts compared to what I pay for my other vehicles.
Apologies for the long-winded answer, but wanted to offer my personal experience in locating and negotiating a long-distance sale in the current environment. One thought I had was that if I found a machine I wanted, I ought to just go ahead and lock it down before everyone received their stimulus checks and started shopping too. I think that, combined with the other factors already mentioned, will keep scoot and cycle prices fairly high this spring. Interested to hear everyone else's thoughts.
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PA - I think you did a good job in your negotiating. I on the other hand am one that very seldom buys used unless I know who owned the bike and how it was used. Those requirements for ME have seen me purchase VERY FEW used bikes. I almost always buy new. I don't just look at the OTD price though. I want to research if possible the service department of the dealership. I will actually pay a premium price for a bike IF their service department has a good reputation.
I am waiting now on a AK550 that was supposed to be in 2 weeks ago. It has yet to show up. The ONLY reason I have no purchased elsewhere is that the service department at this dealership is highly rated. Even their competition speak highly of them. What you did and the way you did it was great. My style with purchasing a bike isn't necessarily right or wrong. We each have to do it THE WAY THAT PLEASES US. :)
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PA - I think you did a good job in your negotiating. I on the other hand am one that very seldom buys used unless I know who owned the bike and how it was used. Those requirements for ME have seen me purchase VERY FEW used bikes. I almost always buy new. I don't just look at the OTD price though. I want to research if possible the service department of the dealership. I will actually pay a premium price for a bike IF their service department has a good reputation.
I am waiting now on a AK550 that was supposed to be in 2 weeks ago. It has yet to show up. The ONLY reason I have no purchased elsewhere is that the service department at this dealership is highly rated. Even their competition speak highly of them. What you did and the way you did it was great. My style with purchasing a bike isn't necessarily right or wrong. We each have to do it THE WAY THAT PLEASES US. :)
Couldn't agree with you more. Any price is a good price if YOU, as a customer, are satisfied. Personally, I can't stand paying full price for about anything. Others have different motivations. It's all good.
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Thanks for that😊
I knew I was being nosey, in some minds....but I find it interesting and helpful to know how these things go down in the real world, in 2021.
While sitting streetside, I've been asked a number of times, "what's a scooter like that go for?"
I've no problem sharing that info with them.
I've purchased, new, a Kymco, a Forza, a Burgman and a Liberty over the past 9 yrs.
That first Kymco was the only purchase free of negotiations, I just said, "while you're getting the paperwork taken care of I'll be over here picking out my free helmet.**"
I had 2 dealers bidding for my $ on each of the other three scooters. All six were by phone and/or Internet dealings. Two were "internet only special pricing". Only the Kymco was local. The Burgman was internet special, 2 yr old leftover model with a choice of two colors....delivered free to me 97 miles distant.
BTW...sold that Burgman to a buyer via emails, photos and a forum advert - to a fellow 2,498 miles away. He arranged and paid the trucking from my driveway.
Again, thanks for sharing your interesting experience (sad -- they've no Honda red, yet)
Stig
ps: **they didn't have a helmet to fit me. But was given $100 gift card from the dealer & another from Kymco.
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Thanks for that😊
I knew I was being nosey, in some minds....but I find it interesting and helpful to know how these things go down in the real world, in 2021.
While sitting streetside, I've been asked a number of times, "what's a scooter like that go for?"
I've no problem sharing that info with them.
I've purchased, new, a Kymco, a Forza, a Burgman and a Liberty over the past 9 yrs.
That first Kymco was the only purchase free of negotiations, I just said, "while you're getting the paperwork taken care of I'll be over here picking out my free helmet.**"
I had 2 dealers bidding for my $ on each of the other three scooters. All six were by phone and/or Internet dealings. Two were "internet only special pricing". Only the Kymco was local. The Burgman was internet special, 2 yr old leftover model with a choice of two colors....delivered free to me 97 miles distant.
BTW...sold that Burgman to a buyer via emails, photos and a forum advert - to a fellow 2,498 miles away. He arranged and paid the trucking from my driveway.
Again, thanks for sharing your interesting experience (sad -- they've no Honda red, yet)
Stig
ps: **they didn't have a helmet to fit me. But was given $100 gift card from the dealer & another from Kymco.
Not true, on the red, Stig. The 2022 models are apparently available ONLY in red. Which makes about as much sense as the 2021 models being available ONLY in black/silver. But good luck actually finding a 2022 model in stock. I am not aware of a single dealer that actually has one, though there they are on the Honda USA website. These ADV 150s are available in MANY colors in overseas markets, so why do the Yanks get one color per year? It's like Honda is conjuring up its inner Henry Ford. "You can get this scooter in any color you want, as long as it's black!" Lol.
https://powersports.honda.com/street/scooter/adv150 (https://powersports.honda.com/street/scooter/adv150)
I'll also add that, to piggyback on what you said, there is a BIG difference between buying a "new" new machine and a "leftover" new machine. When I bought my Kymco side-by-side in the spring of 2019, it was a leftover 2018 model and I negotiated a great deal on that and walked OTD -- with tax, title, tag and registration, PLUS a three-year extended warranty -- for exactly MSRP of the machine itself. But I knew going into this process that if I wanted an ADV 150, I wasn't going to have that kind of leverage. I also knew there were some leftover Yamaha Zuma 125s and Kymco Super 8 150s knocking around out there that I could probably get a pretty good deal on.
But, in the end, you want what you want, and I just felt like the overall styling and features of the ADV 150 set it a notch or two ahead of the other options. So, I made the best deal I felt I could and moved ahead. I figure the worst thing that can happen is I decide I don't want to keep it and I sell it for at least close to what I paid for it. Hondas, after all, hold their value extremely well relative to the competition, and it's hard to imagine there not being a fairly robust used market for these machines.
Time will tell...
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Have you checked in with the folks on the pcx forum?
https://www.hondapcx.org/
They're doing the ADV now, too.
Nice folks for the most part , a couple of grumpy trollers - but nice folks. He's having recent trouble with his recently crashed and rebuilt forum page as well.
Hondas gotta be red.....(you know, the PCX panels are notoriously cheap - maybe the ADV's will be too - for a red swap?) ;)
Stig
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Yeah I've already created an account over there and checked out a bunch of posts. Seems like a solid resource. There also are a few Facebook groups for the ADV 150 so picking up some info there as well.
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Congrats on the good deal and new (used) bike, and thanks for an excellent econ lesson. Really enjoyed the read!
Jeff
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Not long-winded, but a comprehensive and interesting read of a reply, thanks. It’s always good to read someone else’s reasoning in a given set of circumstances and for what it’s worth, I think you made a good choice there.
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Congratulations on the new Honda hope you make many memories on it. Just remember if it wasn't for Honda there would be probably be no Kymco. Resale value will be better for the Honda as well because of name recognition and dealer network support.
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Congratulations on the new Honda hope you make many memories on it. Just remember if it wasn't for Honda there would be probably be no Kymco. Resale value will be better for the Honda as well because of name recognition and dealer network support.
Yes, resale value was certainly a consideration in the purchase decision but not a major factor. I bought this scooter first and foremost because it's the one I liked most. I how to ride it for many years. But I'd be lying if I also didn't consider the worst case scenario is I don't like it as much as I hoped I can probably sell it for close to what I bought it.