KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => LIKE 200i => Topic started by: bonemouth on February 28, 2021, 05:06:25 AM
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Hi, I just bought a 2013 Like 200i that turns over just fine but won't start. It's probably been sitting for years. The spark plug looks new and fires, and the gas and tank was clean, but I got the fuel out and replaced with fresh 100% gas anyway. The red light on the gauge cluster shines for two seconds and goes off, which should mean no codes, right?
The fuel pump works for 10 or so seconds after turning to "ON" and will pump a stead stream of gas. The killswitch is set to "ON" (which I believe is the icon without the "X"). What else could I try? The spark plug is NOT wet when I remove it after trying to crank, so I have to assume fuel isn't getting into the cylinder, but is there any sort of relay or safety function that could be preventing starting?
I don't have a scooter battery, so I'm trying to crank it with jumper cables from a running car, with the positive on the scooter positive terminal and the negative on the scooter frame. Shouldn't this be fine and provide plenty voltage? It seems to have plenty starting power.
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Your injector is probably plugged up. You may want to pull it out and see if it squirts while cranking. Take it to a shop that cleans them if it doesn't. You can clean it if you want to. Instructions available on this forum!
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I'm no electrician - but was always told never to jump a scooter or motorcycle from a RUNNING car.
This could very well be another "sitting for years" LIKE with a rotted fuel line inside the tank.
Yes, check for fuel at the injector after buying a scooter battery.
Stig
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If the fuel is being delivered TO the injector, then line isn't rotted in the tank. If fuel is not coming OUT of the injector - then $60 for used (ebay) or $75 new injector might be your best bet. You can try a soak or spray to clean the injector - or if in a big city - someone to professionally clean the injector.
Not likely that the 'brain' (ECU) is bad just from sitting - but possible.
Finger in the spark plug hole shows good compression, yes?
Miles on the scooter?
Stig
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Thank you all for the ideas! This is my first scooter. I haven't been able to work on it again, but I'll at least get to try these things Saturday. I need to test compression, then see that the injector is spraying. I believe the odometer shows 3,000. It seems that's km (?).
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Thank you all for the ideas! This is my first scooter. I haven't been able to work on it again, but I'll at least get to try these things Saturday. I need to test compression, then see that the injector is spraying. I believe the odometer shows 3,000. It seems that's km (?).
You might be able to tell if there is no compression....when attempting to start the motor will spin somewhat freely - like a sewing machine.
At 3000 miles/Kms doubt anything has occurred to destroy compression.
So, f u e l delivery?
Stig
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You might be able to tell if there is no compression....when attempting to start the motor will spin somewhat freely - like a sewing machine.
At 3000 miles/Kms doubt anything has occurred to destroy compression.
So, f u e l delivery?
Stig
Yes, I've confirmed the injector is spraying. The kill switch is also operating as it should be. There also seems to be plenty compression. Still, it doesn't seem like it's igniting anything, even starting fluid. There's spark, but don't know if this is the correct plug for it. Try another spark plug? Also, I noticed that while the check engine light comes on for 2 sec then off as it should, there's a shirt flash as soon as I press the start button and it begins to turn over. Does that mean anything?
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Check system voltage while cranking engine. ECU will not fire the plug if below 10 volts (thereabouts).
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Check system voltage while cranking engine. ECU will not fire the plug if below 10 volts (thereabouts).
Where do I check? I don't have a battery for it yet so I'm hooking the terminals directly to a good car battery. Shouldn't that work fine?
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Where do I check? I don't have a battery for it yet so I'm hooking the terminals directly to a good car battery. Shouldn't that work fine?
All depends on the connections. You can measure at the phone charge outlet.
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Was it running when put away?
Not sure what connecting your terminals to a running car will do.....was told never to do this with a running car.
Please check your fuses down there in the battery area.
Now buy a good new OEM equivalent scooter battery and install it. 12V at least 8Ah.
Once you've checked for good fuses - give it a start - remember - do not touch the throttle when starting this EFI scooter.
Turn key on, pull the brake lever, check that the rear brake light is working when you pull the brake lever with the key on, push start button. If NO brake light - pull the other brake lever and check that brake light is lit.
Report back with your results with a proper battery installed.
Owners have reported a variety of "no start" reasons --- including starter button wires have been fiddled with inside the handlebar panel by a previous owner.
Stig
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Was it running when put away?
Not sure what connecting your terminals to a running car will do.....was told never to do this with a running car.
Please check your fuses down there in the battery area.
Now buy a good new OEM equivalent scooter battery and install it. 12V at least 8Ah.
Once you've checked for good fuses - give it a start - remember - do not touch the throttle when starting this EFI scooter.
Turn key on, pull the brake lever, check that the rear brake light is working when you pull the brake lever with the key on, push start button. If NO brake light - pull the other brake lever and check that brake light is lit.
Report back with your results with a proper battery installed.
Owners have reported a variety of "no start" reasons --- including starter button wires have been fiddled with inside the handlebar panel by a previous owner.
Stig
I don't know if it was running when parked, but it looks to have sat for about 5 years. The fuses look good. What if neither handle activates the brake light?
I'll buy a proper battery this week and check the voltage at the cigarette lighter.
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Man I just spent two years working on mine, over two years really finally bought a new fuel pump amd new fuel injector, finally ran today, now have another problem, so just go out amd buy a new pump amd new injector amd see if that works, everything after that will be cheap.
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I don't know if it was running when parked, but it looks to have sat for about 5 years. The fuses look good. What if neither handle activates the brake light?
I'll buy a proper battery this week and check the voltage at the cigarette lighter.
Brake bulb either burned out or contact bad because starter won't turn if at least one brake is not squeezed.
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Man I just spent two years working on mine, over two years really finally bought a new fuel pump amd new fuel injector, finally ran today, now have another problem, so just go out amd buy a new pump amd new injector amd see if that works, everything after that will be cheap.
Those were my first two suspicions, but plenty of gas is delivered and the injector sprays it. I'm going to get a spark plug this week so I know the right one is in there. It baffles me that it can have spark, fuel, air and compression but not get beyond turning over.
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You have a multimeter to check that voltage while cranking?
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It's making almost a gasping sound, like"dokk, dokk, dokk." Any idea what that could be? Should I upload and link a video?
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When my scoot stopped starting (is that an oxymoron?), it turned out to be a broken brake switch. $6 fix.
Don't know if the brake light stopped working, and don't remember for certain if engine turned over, but I think it did.
Broken brake switch was caused by scoot tipping over when I got sloppy putting the kickstand down (didn't put it all the way down) several weeks earlier, guess it took a while before it crapped out.
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It's making almost a gasping sound, like"dokk, dokk, dokk." Any idea what that could be? Should I upload and link a video?
Yes please....youtube us!
Stig
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You have a multimeter to check that voltage while cranking?
Yes, and I've ordered a 12V 8Ah battery for it.
I'll get a video this evening!
Also, the brake light comes on as it should.
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Yes, and I've ordered a 12V 8Ah battery for it.
I'll get a video this evening!
Also, the brake light comes on as it should.
OK, bear with us - we've got two "no-start" LIKE200i's posting these days. Trying not to get their histories and symptoms mixed up in my head :)
And, yeah - if it cranks the brake switches are working.
Stig
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@bonemouth,
since fuel, spark, voltage and air is there
pls check again:
- this 2 fuses within your battery box
- if your model has a "kill switch" take it out and see connectors in there
- take the valve cover off and check valve clearance
- pull on all cables in your motor area for loose ends
- gush all cable connectors with WD 40 or similar
- check your sparkplug connector whether it's the correct one...
Let us know..
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Here's the video. Ruffus, I've checked fuses, kill switch and just bought a new OEM spark plug. I haven't done the other things yet.
https://youtu.be/5LKFA2BNvAM (https://youtu.be/5LKFA2BNvAM)
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First thing is a Kymco EFI bike that does not start within three revolutions has a problem. Cranking beyond 5 revolutions is a wasted effort. They either start or they don't. Most of the time they start after the second revolution and run till turned off.
The start attempt in the video sounds a little fast. Have you performed a compression test yet that I missed?
I re-read this and must ask how much is "plenty of compression" in pounds per square inch?
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That is what mine sounds like when I forget to flip the kill switch.
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First thing is a Kymco EFI bike that does not start within three revolutions has a problem. Cranking beyond 5 revolutions is a wasted effort. They either start or they don't. Most of the time they start after the second revolution and run till turned off.
The start attempt in the video sounds a little fast. Have you performed a compression test yet that I missed?
I re-read this and must ask how much is "plenty of compression" in pounds per square inch?
I don't have a tester; I was just holding my finger over the spark plug hole.
As far as the kill switch, that's been tested and is functional.
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@bonemouth,
even for getting your nerves...
We have to start from the very beginning again to be sure not to miss anything.
Take a piece of paper and note all steps you perform.
-hook up your battery
-ignition on
-kill switch on OFF, start button, no start no cranking
-kill switch on ON, start button, motor cranks
-spark plug out and into plug connector
-ignition on, kill switch on ON, start button, spark Y/N?
-if spark, put spark plug out and away
-put your gloved finger into plug hole and start
-if enough compression you might not be able to keep
-finger pushed away-compression healthy
-injector out, starting, should spray a fine mist
-no spray, take injector off
-put any container beneath fuel line, start
-there should be a constant ray of fuel in your container
If all this steps are positiv, injector back, spark plug in, inition cable on.
Start WITHOUT touching your gas throttle.
Let us know...
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Guys - turn your kill switch to "not run" --- try to start your LIKE200i.
Mine does not make that strange hollow sound at each revolution like his does in his video. Like tapping an empty Coke bottle on the bottom....or something.
Do you hear it, too? Or am I hearing something normal?
To me it sounds like someone starting an engine with the spark plug removed - except the engine would be spinning freely - so it's not that.
1) Is the air filter in place, and not wet....cover closed, hose connected securely to the throttle body?
2) OK - other end of the throttle body > Is it possible the intake manifold is cracked or not fully seated and leaking air?
3) Any pulses from the tail pipe when starting?
We have finger pushing compression; a good spark; injector spraying fine mist; "flooded" smell of unburned fuel after repeated attempts and wet spark plug --- YES?
Stig
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Guys - turn your kill switch to "not run" --- try to start your LIKE200i.
Mine does not make that strange hollow sound at each revolution like his does in his video. Like tapping an empty Coke bottle on the bottom....or something.
Do you hear it, too? Or am I hearing something normal?
To me it sounds like someone starting an engine with the spark plug removed - except the engine would be spinning freely - so it's not that.
1) Is the air filter in place, and not wet....cover closed, hose connected securely to the throttle body?
2) OK - other end of the throttle body > Is it possible the intake manifold is cracked or not fully seated and leaking air?
3) Any pulses from the tail pipe when starting?
We have finger pushing compression; a good spark; injector spraying fine mist; "flooded" smell of unburned fuel after repeated attempts and wet spark plug --- YES?
Stig
That's the sound I was talking about! It can't be normal; I've never heard it from an engine before. To address your questions:
1) No, I haven't tried with the air filter on, and I'll check the connections.
2) That's very possible! I'll check. The bike hasn't been wrecked, but there's been at least one hard fall.
3) I'll see about that. Do you mean the pipe/muffler would shake, or I would feel pulsing air from the end of it?
Yes, all that is correct, except I can't determine a flooded smell where it is because there's an old tank with old fuel in it. There was a little dampness on the threads the last time I removed the spark plug after trying to start it, though.
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Guessing that with the air intake tube connected and the air filter sealed up in its box....the hollow sound will be gone when it cranks.
A pulse from the tail pipe might indicate that nothing has taken up residence in the muffler these past 5 years.
Stig
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Guessing that with the air intake tube connected and the air filter sealed up in its box....the hollow sound will be gone when it cranks.
A pulse from the tail pipe might indicate that nothing has taken up residence in the muffler these past 5 years.
Stig
Good points! I'll try that this weekend. I don't see any manifold or intake tube damage. The only thing strange there is that the tube is very tacky feeling.
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@bonemouth,
don't worry too much about the airfilter and inlet tube.
Scoot would run even without anything on it's throttle body. Had my air intake system completely off and did a testride after changing startermotors o-ring, and went fine. Little bit more "snoring" noise, that's all. No failure code, nothing.
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Agree, attaching the breather tube from the aircleaner box isn't going to make your 5-year-dead scooter come alive - but it will get rid of that noise, most likely.
First - I'd get a d__n good battery.
If I had a weak spark I'd check the plug and coil and all their wiring and connections and battery ground connection.
If I had a dribbling, not spraying, injector I'd look at cleaning the injector, buying good used injector, and/or check the output of the fuel pump.
If I had some compression, but not a "hurts the finger" compression - I might suspect that some previous person has screwed up the valve lash settings....because you do not have enough miles to have a ruined engine....so I'd check the valves for proper gapping.
If have have a properly spraying injector giving fuel in the cylinder chamber, a strong sparking & properly gapped CR7HSA NGK spark plug, compression...and still no starting....What would I do?
I'd buy the cyclepedia service manual for the LIKE200i and start a service ticket with their technicians.
Stig
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OK, so there's a second scooter with 800 on the odometer. I didn't mention it before because the fuel pump had been scavenged from it, so I was trying to get the higher-mileage one going.
I'm not getting anywhere with the one we've been talking about, so I swapped pumps to the second one. Even with a good, brand new battery, it's slow to turn over at first. It throws codes 6 and 12. Also, the fuel pump that ran fine in the first scooter won't activate at all in the second. Would having unplugged the brake lights affect anything? (I kept the cowling off since I swapped fuel tanks.)
According to the service manual, code 6 is a "P0560 Battery voltage malfunction," and code 12 is a "P0230 Fuel Pump circuit malfunction."
I feel more hopeful about this one, because it doesn't make that hollow knocking sound you can hear in my video. Any ideas on what I could do with it? I really appreciate all the great ideas from everyone so far.
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@bonemouth,
first of all, good to have an identical scoot close by to swap items. Check each piece for functionality BEFORE you swap it into #2.
In my case I had the rear fairing completely off and the scoot started like always. But as I wrote, I do have a EU model WITHOUT kill switch. Might be lightly different from yours.
-please check all electrical connections again
-get jump start cables from your car to scoots batt, don't start the car (your scoot batt is small and part empty again)
-check spark, injector spraying
-no spark, check cabling and inition coil
-no spraying, injector off, does pump deliver fuel until there?
-pump out of fuel tank again and check
-check with a multimeter whether your brake light comes on, at least the one lever switch which you use to start
-go systematically through all steps
-if possible write it down and hook off what you did.
There will be success.
Let us know.