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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 09:40:17 PM

Title: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 09:40:17 PM
..ncy "golden" variator...yeah right...

...ya'll reckon i'm running this variator a bit hard??

 :-\

..my malossi didn't look this bad after even 15,000 kms...

..reckon i got about 5000 on this'n..

..look at the ramp at the "top"..

..it's roller path is wavy...

........wtf........

..and the RATTLING!!..

..it's very annoying....

..imma get me another Malossi...ordering today......

..dang..........
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 07, 2010, 09:45:44 PM
Well, that's rotten. Wonder why it did that? :-\
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 09:50:18 PM
...ncy....


..just isn't as good as Malossi.... or OEM for that matter...

Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 10:23:57 PM
...so imma go clean this thing up and put in some different rollers...

..all i have is a set of 5.5 grams...

.. i'm going from 4.5 to 5.5gr rollers...

..interested in seeing what happens with my performance...

..i ran 5.5s when my scoot still had the oem airbox, and only the malossi variator and 1000 contra spring mods...

..that was 24,000 kilometers ago..............

..brb in about 30 minutes...
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: sidthesloth on October 07, 2010, 10:32:23 PM
I bought the variator from scooter assassins, I thought it seemed ok, thebatman reckons it is too heavy. How much are you paying for a malossi variator?
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 10:34:13 PM
...probably less than $75.00 US with shipping...

..unless i get it shipped SONIC!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 10:35:56 PM
I bought the variator from scooter assassins, I thought it seemed ok, thebatman reckons it is too heavy

..the ncy?..

..did it look like that one in the pic??

..except for all the crap...

 ;)
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: sidthesloth on October 07, 2010, 10:40:10 PM
No, sorry, I meant I bought one from s.a., just referencing how some are not so good, thebatman reckons they are too heavy, I don't know if mine was, but i think it might be a little lighter now. It won't be long and I will have to look for a new one and belt too.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 10:44:22 PM
..i reckon the ncy might replace a restricted scoot with some benefit...

..but i wore it slam out.......
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 10:45:30 PM
..annnd now i AM going to put this thing back together..before it gets dark...

..brb!!
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 07, 2010, 10:45:45 PM
It's a shame. Before seeing that I had thought ncy was good from what I read.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: omfgdotcodotuk on October 07, 2010, 11:08:57 PM
ermmm ncy? ???
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 07, 2010, 11:20:55 PM
...th' beastie is whole again...going for a ride...


 ;)
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 07, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
k...good luck.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 12:43:15 AM
..cleaned..as well as without buffing...

..ran the 5.5 gram rollers...

..kinda liked the top end torque, but it was a slight bit late in the powerband...

..NOW i want to try some 5.0 grams...

..well tomorrow......
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: blue on October 08, 2010, 02:21:54 AM
ya the late power band gets to me to but im happy with 5.5 Im thinking if you go to small thats why
or variator is wearing out like that to much free space to roll around. 5 might be good let me what ya think if you try 5
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 02:24:53 AM
...yeah..imma try some 5s..

..i WILL let y'now!!!
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 10:59:47 PM
..i ain't happy at all with these 5.5 gram rollers....

 :-\  no, not at all.......

..way too slow...

..imma try something different tho..

..just had an inspiration!!...

 :o


.brb...
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 11:11:58 PM
...just removed and measured th i.d. of the ncy variator...

..came out to 20.06mm...

..service limit is no greater than 19.97...

..another downfall....

..OUT WITH THE NCY!!!..


..brb...still experimenting...
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 08, 2010, 11:24:53 PM
Hmm...ncy is sounding less than good.

Btw...I thought you was going with 4.5 or 4. something. No? maybe that was for the 2nd scoot.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 11:40:15 PM
..the ncy variator and oem drive face weigh in at 330 grams...without rollers..

..oem variator and my ncy..(there it is again)..aluminum drive face weigh in at 240 grams..

..went with the latter setup, and the 5.5 gram rollers...

..the effect is very similar to the performance of the 4.5 gram rollers with the other setup...

..wow...

  :o
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 08, 2010, 11:49:03 PM
ahhh. I see. That's cool. So whatcha experimentin' with now?
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 11:50:03 PM
..aaannd, i think 6 gram rollers would be better with the aluminum drive face and oem variator...

..i don't have any, but i got these tuning kits...

..well...tomorrow is another day...

Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 08, 2010, 11:57:16 PM
so whatcha experimentin' with now?

..lol..all that...weighing all those bits....

..swapping parts...

..WOW!!..opened up new possibilities...

..cause now, i see....that it's the TOTAL weight of your variator assembly that determines how the rollers throw out...

 :o :o :o


Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 12:01:40 AM
So you're trying to make up for the 90 grams difference? Or you need it to be less than that? I don't know what you had before the 5.5's.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 09, 2010, 12:02:57 AM
..i had 4.5 grms...

Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 12:07:15 AM
LOL...I can't keep up. Okay, so you're trying to go up. But you're using the setup that is already 90 grams less before the weight of the rollers. That's like 15 grams each. And you want higher....this can't be right...lol

What I'm doin' wrong?  :D
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 09, 2010, 12:16:11 AM
..there's a formula, i'm sure...but i don't know what that is...

...what i do know, is that 1 gram heavier in roller weight, coupled with 90 grams lighter in variator/drive face weight, create similar performance results...

..though, i believe the performance woudl be closer to running 4.25 gram rollers in my previous setup...


..imma tune with my kit and this aluminum drive face tomorrow...

..just gotta!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 12:23:24 AM
27 + 330 closely =
33 + 240

Hmm...Maybe the formula involves percentages somehow.

I'm curious to see what you end up with!
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 09, 2010, 12:26:50 AM
..i'm almost sure 6 gram rollers would prove to be optimum...

..i gave a guy a brand new set of 6 gr rollers a cpl weeks ago...

..didn think id ever need them, and he did need them for his zuma...

..oh well...
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 01:20:58 AM
Yeah, it always happens that way.

Hey, I don't thinks it's percentages either. I tried to calculate (roughly) the same percentage and it came out to like 3.27 g rollers needed for the new setup. Would be cool if it was just a simple formula, though.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 09, 2010, 01:36:38 AM
came out to like 3.27 g rollers

..okay..but i think somethings missing there...

..i say so because i KNOW i need heavier rollers....

..but the 3.27 figure intrigues me, because that's roughly 1/2 of the 6.5 g oem roller weight....
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 01:49:19 AM
Ha! The section of my brain that loves math goes to sleep earlier at night before I do. I might have to try it again tomorrow.
I think it was a little over 8%. (.08184)

Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: sidthesloth on October 09, 2010, 03:57:50 AM
The variator/drive face weight will have a fly wheel effect, not the throw of the rollers, the ramp angle will affect the throw of the rollers, however, the lighter fly wheel will allow the engine to gain revs quicker, which, in turn, will affect the throw of the rollers.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 09, 2010, 02:24:56 PM
So it seems with a lighter fly wheel effect the situation would allow for a lighter set of rollers to become more efficient, in a sense, but a heavier set of rollers would sustain a higher speed longer or with more force after gaining momentum, but possibly need replacing a bit sooner with constant sustained higher speeds. I might still have it backwards. I'm gonna read this all again after I have a cup of coffee.

I'm not sure I'm totally grasping the whole picture yet, but I can see there is a delicate balance to achieve there. The science behind it is interesting. If I can get a handle on it I think I'll be able to understand the debate between mods versus stock and increased power now versus longer engine life.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 10, 2010, 02:04:47 AM

..i just took 50 grams off my oem variator and ran it in my scoot with the oem drive face and 5.5gram rollers...

..wow...

..50 grams made a HUGE difference...

 ;)
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 10, 2010, 02:07:42 AM
That's great!! So you sticking with the 5.5 then?
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 10, 2010, 02:36:13 AM
..well, th scoot hit rpms it wasnt accustomed to hitting at top end...

..did a plug chop there, and wow...very lean...

..thatsa new delima...
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 10, 2010, 02:38:40 AM
Hmm...well that was unexpected.
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 10, 2010, 03:06:10 AM
..yeah..kinda is...

..was not even expecting those kinda rpms, and the variator's weight difference totally changed the width of th' powerband....

..new territories!!...lol..
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: Rianna on October 10, 2010, 03:14:42 AM
You'll get it figured out, though. So can you ride it that way or you gotta do some adjusting before your ride to work?
Title: Re: ..variator observations 4.0 ..
Post by: wordslinger on October 10, 2010, 03:17:43 AM
..oh yeah, i'm riding...lol...

..just gotta use the power of the wrist, to maintain...