KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Yager GT 200i => Topic started by: iker on October 05, 2010, 09:47:41 PM
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hi, i did a valve adjust today on the yeager . miles were 500. heres the drill - remove seat , two nuts. remove trunk box - 4 bolts and one large screw. when taking box out remove the light connection on left side. now gently take off the front cover , easy does it no screws or bolts . next remove two hoses connected to the valve cover . now remove 4 bolts and 2 nuts holding valve cover . with cover off , take large cap off at magneto on the right side . with 19mm turn engine clockwise until both valves are loose and large hole on cam gear is at top of engine.. check clearance of .1mm or 4 thousands. feeler gauge should go with no drag. loose is better than tight. use a 9mm wrench and needle nose pliers for adjustment. anyhow thats how this old bike wrench did it. piece of cake and a lot cheaper than shop rates. my valves were ok but i increased clearance on intake just a little . at same time a checked all nuts and bolts and tire pressure . i have a harbor freight bike lift . im too old to work on the floor anymore. hope this helps or come to alamogordo nm and i'll help. thanks ike
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..good job iker...
;D
..thanks for sharing!!!
peace
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Thanks iker,
Doesn't seem too difficult. I'll give it a try at 600, thanks for posting the info.
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I figured it would be something like that... again, very similar to Yamaha scoots. Thanks for the write-up. Just goes to show the local so-called dealers here in ATL don't know squat, talking about having to pull the engine to do it.
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my valves were ok but i increased clearance on intake just a little
..i just re-read this...
..you know that increasing that clearance above spec reduces the volume of fuel mix that is introduced into your combustion chamber during the "intake" stroke....
:-\
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tks word - for your advice . i didnt really change the clearance , what i did was to increase from firm drag to light drag on the valve setting. not braging but i would guess a have adjusted at least 8000 valves so far. your advice was correct though, ike
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I explored the area under the seat, taking off the front cover as Ike said, and it looks like it shouldn't be too difficult to adjust the valves, using his instructions for that also. The last time I adjusted valves was in 1972 on a Toyota truck! I have the feeler gauges, tools, and a pretty good skill level for a shadetree mechanic.
Now I really wouldn't trust the mechanic who said you had to pull the engine. He said Vespa's don't even get checked until 12K. I checked and he was correct on some models.
I am curious, besides Iker, has anyone else adjusted their own or had a shop do it? How were they at the particular mileage? Cost for a COMPETENT dealership to do it?
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I had my shop do the entire 600 service and they charged $90 or so.
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I just did the valve adjustment tonight on my Yager GT 200i.
It took about an hour to gather information (torque values, etc.), tools, lights, rags, etc.
It took about an hour to complete the wrenching part of the job. Would have taken less time but I didn't have a 9mm wrench to tighten the locknut, so I had to tighten the locknut with a socket, test the clearance, loosen the locknut, adjust the center post, tighten the locknut, etc., until I got it just right.
My intake valve was at 0.08mm, so I adjusted it out to 0.10mm. I set it so that the 0.10mm feeler gauge would slide easily in, but the 0.12mm gauge wouldn't.
After adjusting it and buttoning everything back up, I took it out for a hard ride, to see if anything had changed for the worse. It hadn't, still runs great.
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I just did the valve adjustment tonight on my Yager GT 200i.
It took about an hour to gather information (torque values, etc.), tools, lights, rags, etc.
It took about an hour to complete the wrenching part of the job. Would have taken less time but I didn't have a 9mm wrench to tighten the locknut, so I had to tighten the locknut with a socket, test the clearance, loosen the locknut, adjust the center post, tighten the locknut, etc., until I got it just right.
My intake valve was at 0.08mm, so I adjusted it out to 0.10mm. I set it so that the 0.10mm feeler gauge would slide easily in, but the 0.12mm gauge wouldn't.
After adjusting it and buttoning everything back up, I took it out for a hard ride, to see if anything had changed for the worse. It hadn't, still runs great.
Congrats. For some stupid reason I never did that myself.
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Just hit 200 miles on my Yager. Did the 200 mile service and adjusted the valves following Ikers most excellent instructions. Thanks Iker!
If you are handy with a wrench at all, I would not pay a shop to do this for you. It really is just as easy as Iker says.
Allen
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Used ikers method for getting at the valves and it works great! Mine had tightened up to about .003" so I put 'em back to the required .004" at a slight drag on the feeler gauge. The test ride was good with the 200i running better. Really! OK, maybe it was my imagination.... Iker really had the right procedure to get at this job. Thanks!
Karl
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Are you guys super strict about doing this every 4000 km? I've been extending this interval a bit... :-\
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Are you guys super strict about doing this every 4000 km? I've been extending this interval a bit... :-\
Never did it on P250S.
Done once on A125, around 20K kms.
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I pulled all the surrounding plastic off and was ready to do the valve adjustment. Alas I seem to have a metal tube attached to the cover that leads to the head. What, do I have some kind of freaky setup? There appear to be 2 gaskets involved that I am concerned about breaking loose. Any insights would be appreciated as I have 3000 miles on it and would like to at least check the clearance.
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Are you guys super strict about doing this every 4000 km? I've been extending this interval a bit... :-\
How was it the last time you checked them. If they stay the same and do not need adjusting, I would extend the interval. But if each time they are checked you need to adjust them, then don't extend it, contract it. I'll have them checked at the 600 mile service. Go Phils.
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Did my 600 mile maintenance at 633 miles. Valves were ever so slightly loose. Pretty easy to do. Everything else looked good. Changed oil, cleaned screen, replace filter. Just a word about changing the filter, the spring that puts tension on the filter is kind of a pain to keep center when putting the filter cap back on. Just a very little dab of grease on the filter where the spring centers, keeps it there until you get the cap is on. Changed gear oil. Nothing unusual, and pretty easy for the do it yourself to do. Not use to working on tiny motors like this, didn't know they could make a timing chain that small! It really is a jewel of a motor though.
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Hi guys,
I am a bit nervous since it is my first time adjusting valves. I've looked at the Like 200i vid on youtube, but I was hoping someone here might have a video for the valve adjustment on the Yager 200i.
Thank you!
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Kymco Like 200i Scooter Valve Clearance Adjustment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipDXgGdh6o#ws)
This one? It's a perfect video. that is the way it's done.
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yep that's the one!...thought it was very good. I wanted to see a yager 200i vid so I don't break any body panel tabs(I'm not even sure what panels have to come off for this) and I take apart the right things. Body panels that clip into place (like in the Like 200i vid) if you don't try to pop them off in the right direction they will break and I want to keep my scoot PERFECT!
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There is only one thing to say... It's just a scooter. They do get broken. Duct tape, and zip ties are good enough for the space shuttle guys. :D
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yep that's the one!...thought it was very good. I wanted to see a yager 200i vid so I don't break any body panel tabs(I'm not even sure what panels have to come off for this) and I take apart the right things. Body panels that clip into place (like in the Like 200i vid) if you don't try to pop them off in the right direction they will break and I want to keep my scoot PERFECT!
it is scary doing this the first time to your perfect scooter. Maybe work up to it.....start by taking off the underseat bucket. Have a look in there at you engine and at the back side of the panels you would need to remove. Study the clips, if it is a warm day, or the engine has warmed the panels, try unclipping them. If it is the first time, might be a little tight. Take your time...if you can get them off with your fingers or with the help of a butter knife...great!! If not, no harm done...now that you have been in there..you have gained good experience. Wait a few days, and try it again. No rush, it is your scoot!! Watch a few valve jobs on various scooters on youtube...zilllions of them there in all languages! Gain confidence by watching the procedure. Those panels are not so tough...just study them and try a few ways. You will get the hang of it!!
Keep asking questions when you have them...we have all been where you are at.
Regards, Stig
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This is Iker's procedure, expanded with additional info, Yager 200i specific:
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3672.msg42320#msg42320 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3672.msg42320#msg42320)
Look for the 12 Apr 2011 post.
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Good man Yager! 8)
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OK I am in the middle of adjusting them , but I'm wondering if somethings wrong I checked them and they are:
Intake: is less than .038mm (Smallest guage I had...would not fit)
Exhaust: .064mm
Could this be right...thought they get loose as you ride, not tighter?
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What happens if valves are too tight?
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What happens if valves are too tight?
OK, slow down....are you at topdead center? For certain?
Got the big hole at right angles to the edge, and 2 small holes on each side right on the edge of the lip of the metal?
Or did you find the TDC mark on the R side by the fan?
Was there slight movement in both before you started? You should have slight movement in both before you start, or you need to rotate 360 again. Looking for 0.10mm
Are you are working with MM, or inches. .0039 INCHES (we use .004) is the same measurement as .10 MM . Sounds like you might have a feeler gauge in INCHES....which is OK!
So if so, use your .004 in. feeler blade. Then report back.Stig
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I resized my pics and they are not posting ....any ideas?
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(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/jeckert79/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_102333201.jpg) (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/jeckert79/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_102333201.jpg.html)
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(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/jeckert79/IMG_20140510_102406238.jpg) (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/jeckert79/media/IMG_20140510_102406238.jpg.html)
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Both measurements were in mm and I could not find the top dead center mark.
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Both measurements were in mm and I could not find the top dead center mark.
FINDING Top Dead Center: OK, look at these pictures and read the captions. This will enable you to find TDC ....you MUST feel a slight bit of movement when you pull & push on the rocker arm nut when you have that chain sprocket lined up as seen in the pix. If you have movement in the rocker arm AND the 3 chain sprocket holes are as shown - you have TDC~!
If you have NO movement in the rocker arms, then you need to rotate the engine one full turn again until the chain sproket holes line up properly again AND you can now feel slight movemnt in the rocker arm....NOW you have TDC~! TDC for our purposes is reached every-other turn of the engine.
Use you feeler blade (.10mm or .004 in.) to get the proper setting. Lock it down with the set nut and check again. Move nothing and check the other valve. If .004 fits and .005 does not fit you are good to go. (ie. try the next thicker blade, if it won't slide in there you are good to go. If it fits, do it again until it doesn't.)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/opyamr.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2lxa3k0.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/rsvv4n.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/fa3cra.jpg)
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Everything Stig said is wrong. He wants your bike.
It's all part of a very complex plan to have GM take over Kymco. Do what he said, and you will be driving a Chevette in two weeks. Or not.
Yore THE MAN Stig! Great post!
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Stig, thank you, I appreciate it, I want to take her apart again and check it again for the 12 time! :)
Unfortunately, I had her apart all day and just before you posted I slapped her back together...thinking I figured most of it out. I was sure I had the proper clearance and since I checked 4 times and then went to the store to buy another feeler gauge since mine had some rust and wanted to be sure. I really adjusted the snot out of these valves those , the previous clearances # were legit (Intake: being less than .038mm and the Exhaust: .064mm)...so it makes me EXTREMELY nervous that I messed something up. They were way tight, not sure how either...any thoughts???
Afterwards, I regapped the plug which was WAY tight too, to the recommended gap of .9mm
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Stig, thank you, I appreciate it, I want to take her apart again and check it again for the 12 time! :)
Unfortunately, I had her apart all day and just before you posted I slapped her back together...thinking I figured most of it out. I was sure I had the proper clearance and since I checked 4 times and then went to the store to buy another feeler gauge since mine had some rust and wanted to be sure. I really adjusted the snot out of these valves those , the previous clearances # were legit (Intake: being less than .038mm and the Exhaust: .064mm)...so it makes me EXTREMELY nervous that I messed something up. They were way tight, not sure how either...any thoughts???
Afterwards, I regapped the plug which was WAY tight too, to the recommended gap of .9mm
Please tell us more about your scooter.
Miles, year, new, used? How many owners?
Stig
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(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/jeckert79/IMG_20140505_060124463.jpg) (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/jeckert79/media/IMG_20140505_060124463.jpg.html)
It is a 2012 with 1550 miles. I am the Second owner...i believe he was a member on here. It has a custom made: windscreen, throttle lock, and luggage rack. It was well cared for.
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Thats a great looking scooter, and to my mind ...darn near a new scooter ...hardly broken in at 1500 miles. Maybe the valves have never been addressed? Still, hard to think that Kymco let it out of the barn with valves that snug.
Well, whatever, when you get them opened to .10mm you'll be fine.
Hope it was not too big a job to get through the plastic and to the valves.
My Like200i is pretty easy, compared to a lot of others.
Turned 5400 miles on my Like this morning...and still consider it a new scoot. (Always amazed at how few miles so many scoots have on them when people sell them on. Saw a scoot like mine at the dealership yesterday that only had 184 miles on it, and a 3 yr old People with only 1500 miles on it.
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It's always the same story... It sits all winter, and runs soo bad in the spring they get traded in or put on Craigs list.
Lucky us!
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Ok I just called the owner...great guy by the way, and he said he never touched the valves, just oil and trans oil. So with that being said I agree with you Stig I doubt they would of sent it out NEW like this, but then again the plug was WAYYY off too.
So here is my fear (even though the test ride went well):
#1. I may of not been at TDC since I did not pull on the rocker arms checking for movement (however I did pull the plug and put my socket extension down there to see if the piston was near the top, which it was).
#2. I did not use the torque specs provided for the valve adjuster. Since it is so difficult to get it to spec
(trying to hold the adjuster with a needle nose) I got it close and snugged the adjuster nut. Then I would use the (next size up gap .005) gauge to see if it still fit, if it did I then used just the wrench and tightened 1/32ish of a turn to the right (since the nut carries the adjuster rod with it...thus making a smaller gap). I when the .005 no loner fit in knew I was close and adjusted very carefully until the .004 could fit and the .005 could not.
I'm just having a hard time believing this scoot was this far out of spec and I am always fearful the motor will blow. Please let me know your thoughts of the above. If I have to take it apart again I will, to check TDC...getting the proper torque spec seems impossible, but I don't have any other tricks unless they make a tool for the adjuster rod (to hold it).
...and again THANK YOU for your help!!!
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It HAS to be at tdc otherwise it is wrong. That may explain your finding it sooo far out of spec.
Re-do it.
As far as the way you describe tightening the lock nuts you are doing the right thing. I twist the post by hand, and lightly seat the lock nut. Then with the gauge still in the gap I cinch it down. If it does over tighten I keep repeating until it is correct.
All spark plug gaps will open with age. It's a combo of heat cool cycles, and wearing away of the metal itself. No worries there.
Just take your time, and redo the valves, and all will be golden.
It's just a stupid engine, and in a battle of wits/will odds are in your favor.
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Ok I just called the owner...great guy by the way, and he said he never touched the valves, just oil and trans oil. So with that being said I agree with you Stig I doubt they would of sent it out NEW like this, but then again the plug was WAYYY off too.
So here is my fear (even though the test ride went well):
#1. I may of not been at TDC since I did not pull on the rocker arms checking for movement (however I did pull the plug and put my socket extension down there to see if the piston was near the top, which it was).
#2. I did not use the torque specs provided for the valve adjuster. Since it is so difficult to get it to spec
(trying to hold the adjuster with a needle nose) I got it close and snugged the adjuster nut. Then I would use the (next size up gap .005) gauge to see if it still fit, if it did I then used just the wrench and tightened 1/32ish of a turn to the right (since the nut carries the adjuster rod with it...thus making a smaller gap). I when the .005 no loner fit in knew I was close and adjusted very carefully until the .004 could fit and the .005 could not.
I'm just having a hard time believing this scoot was this far out of spec and I am always fearful the motor will blow. Please let me know your thoughts of the above. If I have to take it apart again I will, to check TDC...getting the proper torque spec seems impossible, but I don't have any other tricks unless they make a tool for the adjuster rod (to hold it).
...and again THANK YOU for your help!!!
OK, with Zombie riding shotgun we will get this sorted!
Your specs were too tight. Still some movement there - but too snug. Who knows why --- maybe the dealer at the first major servicing (200 or 600 miles) set the valves when the scoot had not been sitting overnight. In other words: owner brings in scoot for service. Waits in waiting room. Dealer lets engine cool some, then sets the valves. EVERYbody I respect as a mechanic says to ONLY do valves on a COLD engine ("overnight sitting" in the service bay)
Who knows?
But you are about to insure that they are perfect!
#1 Take the valve cover off again, spin the engine and look for those 3 holes to line up as shown. Now, grab that nut and pull/push on it. Got movement? No? Spin again 360 degrees. Line up the sprocket's 3 holes. Try for movement now. Got movement? Super....
#2 Now slip the .004 blade in there. I like what you're doing --- if the .004 fits and the .005 does not. You are good to go.No matter how or what you do with that center rod or the surrounding lock-nut....when you're all done messing with it and snugging things up IF THE .004 has a nice fit - You are GOOD TO GO!
I never torque little nuts like that - I do not own an expensive fine adjusting torque wrench. Look at the nut - use your noggin and snug it. We're not trying to snap anything off - just a good snug tightening is perfect.
If you suspect that you did the orginal valve set at the wrong 360....Do the straw in the spark plug hole thing again to see when the piston is at its highest AND look at those 3 sprocket holes.
Rotate engine forward > check > look > feeler gauge blades....take your time. No rush.
Consider doing this: once you've got everything spun to the proper place and valves all adjusted. Take off that disc by the fan, look in there with a flash light - find the marks stamped in the metal. Study that TDC image...maybe even use a touch of white-out paint to make things easier to spot the next time. MY TDC marks are so faint they are really hard to see. I applied a bit of white paint to both places.
Let us know how it's going....Zombie is pacing in his back yard - missing supper.
As my 13 yr old daughter tells me :"You can do this thing, Pops."
Stig
Scooter How-To : GY6 Valve Adjustment (Also For Buggy + Kart) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0K-ytyjOFg#)
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Great post as always Stig. You could have mentioned me two or three more times as a Great guy, Patient to a fault, and perhaps the most Generous man alive but I appreciate the Cameo role. ;D
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Thanks again, I will take her apart again and keep you posted!
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Ok just finished took 50 mins. exactly from start to finish, the valves had minimal movement each rotation; I turned it 4 full rotations and checked each time (the clearance never changed, .004/.1mm every time)...there was minimal movement each time in the nut to the adjustment post (is that correct, very slight movement, but movement?...and it was never locked up out of the 4 revolutions). Thinking and hoping its good!:)
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Ok just finished took 50 mins. exactly from start to finish, the valves had minimal movement each rotation; I turned it 4 full rotations and checked each time (the clearance never changed, .004/.1mm every time)...there was minimal movement each time in the nut to the adjustment post (is that correct, very slight movement, but movement?...and it was never locked up out of the 4 revolutions). Thinking and hoping its good!:)
Sounds like you have it sorted. Yeah, the slight movent is that .004in.'s you're feeling. If you do not feel that movement, even if you have the sprocket showing those 3 holes in proper place - you need to turn 360 one more time. NOW with the 3 holes in their proper place and that slight .004in. wiggle in the nut you are at the place to use the feeler gauge.
Good job.
How does it sound?
Stig
How's it sound?
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Yager 200i after valve adjustment: http://youtu.be/klZsv33PXQA (http://youtu.be/klZsv33PXQA)
Hopefully that's not the valves tapping!
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Either that or you left the wrench in there.
I would open it back up, and do it again... Differently than the first time tho.
Scooter How-To : GY6 Valve Adjustment (Also For Buggy + Kart) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0K-ytyjOFg#)
Engine size doesn't matter. The method is the same
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Not sure what else I can do, tighten them up to .003 instead of .004?...SO FRUSTRATED!!!
I have opened her up twice and checked it 10-12x's the first time and 4x's the second. I did EXACTLY what all the posts showed, and it sounds like that. The valves did not move from the first time and they are set exactly at .1/.004. Any ideas, any one live in the Chicago area? PLEASE HELP!!!
...maybe that's why the valves were originally set up so tight from Kymco?
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There are Soooo many maybe;s. Could be a bad cam bearing.
What made you open it up in the first place? Was it making a noise anything like that?
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Sounded fine before I touched it (however, I never put my ear up to it), I was just trying to follow the owner's manual basic maintenance and it never had the valves adjusted before...guess should of left them! I'm still stuck on the fact that they were sooo tight when it was first opened up. I'd figure or hope that at 1500 mile marker it should not be having any issues yet?
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bikz,
OK, your scoot was running well before you started.
But the valves seem to be pretty noisy now.
Please take a minute to watch these 2 videos...note the position of the 3 sprocket holes, and note that he shows the slight movement in the rocker arm before any adjustments have begun.
This video is on a Kymco scooter....Valve Clearance Inspection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcxJNOZXcOM#ws)
Finding Top Dead Center on the Compression Stroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDil5P-n6VE#ws)
OK, now if we go back and consider that you may have adjusted (opened) your valve lash (gap ) to .10mm (.004in.) while you were not at TDC of the compression stroke of the piston - but were actually on the other stroke (the exhaust stroke).
I do not think you checked to see if you had movement in the rocker arm before you started any of this process. Please answer - if you remember? That was a lot of wrenching ago, I understand.
The piston comes up twice - one is the compression stroke, the next is the exhaust stroke. To set your valves you need the piston to be at Top Dead Center of the compression stroke.
How do you tell if you are on the compression stroke?: You pull/push on the rocker arm looking for that tiny movement (hear the "click" in the video)
How to tell if they are set incorrectly?: There should be that movement of .004's inch with those sprocket holes aligned properly....AND there should be NO MOVEMENT in the rocker arm when you spin the engine 360 degrees.
If you can move the rockers on both the compression stroke and the exhaust stroke - we need to stop and fix that.(in other words: look for movement. Yes? No? Spin the engine 360 degrees again - with 3 hole aligned again. Movement now? You should not have movement both times.) If you did not do this when you first started...then we need to get you back to square one.
That sprocket and those 3 holes will line up properly twice on a 4 stroke engine like ours - but we can set the valve adjustment ONLY on ONE of its turns. The compression turn.
Please let us know what you find.....
Stig
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Both exhaust & compression stroke have movement in the rocker arms...I must have open them too much the first time around when i got those crazy gap #'s.
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Sounded fine before I touched it (however, I never put my ear up to it), I was just trying to follow the owner's manual basic maintenance and it never had the valves adjusted before...guess should of left them! I'm still stuck on the fact that they were sooo tight when it was first opened up. I'd figure or hope that at 1500 mile marker it should not be having any issues yet?
You did it wrong. They were fine. You have to forget what you did, and FOLLOW one of the videos. Promise I'm correct. DO NOT assume you followed the procedure. Trust me... You didn't
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Both exhaust & compression stroke have movement in the rocker arms...I must have open them too much the first time around when i got those crazy gap #'s.
YES!
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Ok, if you have movement of the nut, up and down, on the rocker arm on both strokes of the piston (exhaust and compression)...you will need to find the compression stroke. Remove the sprark plug and put your finger tip over that hole , you will feel the air compressing on your finger as you rotate the engine on the compression stroke. Align your 3 sprocket holes, set your valve gap. With your finger covering the spark plug hole ..you should feel air blowing against it on the compression stroke..and feel nothing when you turn forward the engine 360 degrees.
Your should be able to grab the rocker arm and move it on compression TDC that tiny amount...and feel no movement on the next stroke! (Exhaust stroke)
If you do not obtain this mechanical result, please consider taking it to the dealer. Do NOT ride it to the dealer if you are not certain you have not adjusted the valve lash properly.
Please let us know what you find ....and advise if you are still uncertain that you have found the COMPRESSION TDC. We can talk you thru other ways, more complicated, to check this.
Stig
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Thank you for all the feedback, but I think at this point I am going to stop by my engine builders shop next week and have him check it out. The I will keep you posted with what he finds.
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Please do. It WILL help others
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Thank you for all the feedback, but I think at this point I am going to stop by my engine builders shop next week and have him check it out. The I will keep you posted with what he finds.
Hello Bikz,
Have you rec'd a report from your mechanic?
Please post your findings.
Hope it works out well for you - that really is a beauty of a scooter!
Stig
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I had the shop do my 600 mile check, I assumed they adjusted the valves. At 3000 miles I checked them and the exhaust was TIGHT. Checked them again at 9000 miles and the exhaust was tight again. Guess I need to check them more often.