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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Neil955i on July 22, 2020, 10:37:32 AM
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My X-Town 300 came fitted with Kenda rubber and whilst dry weather performance is fine, I’ve recently had the “benefit” of testing their wet weather performance. Kindest thing I can say is they do not inspire confidence. Now pondering something like Metzler Feelfree Wintec replacements based on pneus on line reviews*, but first wondered what thoughts were out in forum land?
* https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/test/motorcycle-tyre/search-test/
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I have always liked the Michelin City Grips. I'm not sure how long they will last on a bigger scooter. I tried one one the back of my majesty and got 3800 miles out of it. Metzler Feel Frees are normally good for 5,000 miles on my Majesty although the last one was toast in just 4600 miles. On the front the Mezlers are good for around 7K. I have no complaints about how the Metzlers work and they last longer than anything else I have tried on the majesty.
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The OEM tires that came on my 2019 XTown were crap----never a good feeling with them! Replaced rear with City Grip=ok, no city grip made in XTown front size. Replaced front with Heidenau=fine feeling, have new Heidenau rear in waiting.
"All Weather"----probably not sold in US---"Land of the Trailer Biker", but required in Germany for example.
Were I to buy another Kymco (I like mine) I would change tires as soon as I got it home---I am one of those who still does own tire work.
Wet Weather tires important in my book----snow/ice something different----but some bikes/ scooters ok in snow----my 2 stroke Vespas fine in snow---rode daily in WI winter, used in Europe for Elephant Rally, made ride somewhat enjoyable.
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I have always liked the Michelin City Grips. I'm not sure how long they will last on a bigger scooter. I tried one one the back of my majesty and got 3800 miles out of it. Metzler Feel Frees are normally good for 5,000 miles on my Majesty although the last one was toast in just 4600 miles. On the front the Mezlers are good for around 7K. I have no complaints about how the Metzlers work and they last longer than anything else I have tried on the majesty.
Useful input Klav, thanks for that.
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The OEM tires that came on my 2019 XTown were crap----never a good feeling with them! Replaced rear with City Grip=ok, no city grip made in XTown front size. Replaced front with Heidenau=fine feeling, have new Heidenau rear in waiting.
"All Weather"----probably not sold in US---"Land of the Trailer Biker", but required in Germany for example.
Were I to buy another Kymco (I like mine) I would change tires as soon as I got it home---I am one of those who still does own tire work.
Wet Weather tires important in my book----snow/ice something different----but some bikes/ scooters ok in snow----my 2 stroke Vespas fine in snow---rode daily in WI winter, used in Europe for Elephant Rally, made ride somewhat enjoyable.
John, your experience and encyclopaedic knowledge, as ever, helps out the young ‘uns! (And it’s not often I can put myself in that camp these days!). Thank you, Heidenau’s were another option on my list.
Need to get the new rubber before winter sets in so your advice is valued. I’ll keep you posted.
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My hatred for anything made by Avon burns deep.
When I was couriering I swore by Anlas Wintergrip 2s, but whether they make them in your size, and whether their performance (I liked them, but it was a smaller bike and I was much less experienced at the time) is as good for a larger bike... but certainly worth a peek.
I did use Heidenau K66s for a year as well but I seem to remember them wearing very quickly (not a problem in itself) and the ride deteriorating significantly when they had worn.
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That's interesting Viper. I've noticed after as little as 2,000 miles that my OEM Kenda's have now become very sensitive to white lines to add to the vague feel in the wet from them. Definitely got to swap them out before the rainy season! BTW, Kudos for changing your own on your fleet, I have a nice man that comes to my house and does mine for me! ::)
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That's interesting Viper. I've noticed after as little as 2,000 miles that my OEM Kenda's have now become very sensitive to white lines to add to the vague feel in the wet from them. Definitely got to swap them out before the rainy season! BTW, Kudos for changing your own on your fleet, I have a nice man that comes to my house and does mine for me! ::)
What part of the Upper Kentucky is Cheshire near?
I'm in S. E. Ohio and would gladly give your tire changer guy free lunch!
(as John suggested, I was advised by 'old hands' here to shed the original Kenda 'Slip&Slides' for City Grips when I started my work commutes on the LIKE200i. I followed that advice.)
Have always liked Metzeler tire adverts...
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGvR3rcj/Metz1.jpg)
And the way they show proper tire rotation....
(https://i.postimg.cc/50fLV6K6/Metz.jpg)
Stig
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What part of the Upper Kentucky is Cheshire near?
I'm in S. E. Ohio and would gladly give your tire changer guy free lunch!
Stig, you're just being funny, right?
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I think he is [emoji848]
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+1 on the City Grip. One of the few bike tires I've seen with siping like a car tire.
I have not ridden them much in snow, only on a dusting. We just don't get that around here to speak of.
Michelin did just release the CG 2. It appears to include even more siping. I suspect this was in respond to the Pirelli Angel that came out a couple years ago to compete with the CG.
I have not seen the CG2 in the U.S. yet.
I have always liked the Michelin City Grips. I'm not sure how long they will last on a bigger scooter. I tried one one the back of my majesty and got 3800 miles out of it. Metzler Feel Frees are normally good for 5,000 miles on my Majesty although the last one was toast in just 4600 miles. On the front the Mezlers are good for around 7K. I have no complaints about how the Metzlers work and they last longer than anything else I have tried on the majesty.
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Can only speak for the Downtown 300i...
The OEM Maxxis were OK, evil handling and truck-like compared to Metzeler, Michelin and Avon. Got SO weary of changing rear tires once, sometimes twice a season, went to a steel belt radial car tire in the rear. Handling still light and delightful but rear braking massively different in that major squeeze required to skid the rear on dry pavement. About the same as before on sand or gravel and slightly greater squeeze to slide in the wet.
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I think he is [emoji848]
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I never kid about lunch!
Stig
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+1 on the City Grip. One of the few bike tires I've seen with siping like a car tire.
I have not ridden them much in snow, only on a dusting. We just don't get that around here to speak of.
Michelin did just release the CG 2. It appears to include even more siping. I suspect this was in respond to the Pirelli Angel that came out a couple years ago to compete with the CG.
I have not seen the CG2 in the U.S. yet.
We get them here in the UK [emoji636] Tromper, another one on my list as I had CG’s on my last scoot. Loved ‘em.
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I never kid about lunch!
Stig
Or coffee?
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Can only speak for the Downtown 300i...
The OEM Maxxis were OK, evil handling and truck-like compared to Metzeler, Michelin and Avon. Got SO weary of changing rear tires once, sometimes twice a season, went to a steel belt radial car tire in the rear. Handling still light and delightful but rear braking massively different in that major squeeze required to skid the rear on dry pavement. About the same as before on sand or gravel and slightly greater squeeze to slide in the wet.
Car tyre on a bike / scooter? Not legal here, called “dark siding” I believe.
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Nothing wrong with a City Grip or a Street Pilot. All good tyres and relatively cheap.
Just put fitted 4 Vee Rubbers in the last week... much better than they should be for the price, but still decidedly budget.
I really didn't like the Kendas, Neil - I remember changing them out for another pair before they were really all that worn on my Kymco, and I'm Yorkshire levels of tight when it comes to getting my money's worth out of tyres! I used to get through a back tyre every 6 months when I was riding for work, as well as a set of pads. It was the start, stop, start, stop that killed them.
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Yeah, must admit I like to work a tyre before springing for a new one, but think I’ll make an exception for these bl**dy Kenda’s!
You’re right constant use such as couriering will shag a tyre in no time. My heaviest year was c40,000 miles (commuting & leisure) and it was pricey on tyres & servicing!
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I never understood why bloody was a curse word in the UK? Good to know about the Vee tires see them for sale on ebay . Also see City Grip 2 for sale in UK.
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I never understood why bloody was a curse word in the UK? Good to know about the Vee tires see them for sale on ebay . Also see City Grip 2 for sale in UK.
Goes back to the Middle Ages KK. When England was Catholic “By Our Lady” was an oath or curse. Down the centuries it got contracted to bloody. Now you know. [emoji3]
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love the international flavor (or flavour?) to this forum! Great to hear and learn different things from our friends around the world.
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There’s more that unites us than separates us! Just remember, it’s aluminium.
[emoji23]
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There’s more that unites us than separates us! Just remember, it’s aluminium.
[emoji23]
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My dad couldn't say aluminum so he pronounced it the same as the British AL U Mininum. I like the UK program (Escape to the country) although I think I've seen all the episodes now. One thing that puzzles me is your country lanes, they only look wide enough for one car? I have learned about the canal system . Any town of any size usually has a pub. A chocolate box. Reception room instead of a living room. A host of cottage industries and local producers of food products. Mainstream US tv ignores everything but London. Since my family originated from the UK I find England and it's history very interesting. A lot of the grade 2 homes were built before the US was a even a country. Every 4th of July a friend sends me a greeting (happy treason day) . Glad to have some UK members on the forum as well as members from all over the world.
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My dad couldn't say aluminum so he pronounced it the same as the British AL U Mininum. I like the UK program (Escape to the country) although I think I've seen all the episodes now. One thing that puzzles me is your country lanes, they only look wide enough for one car? I have learned about the canal system . Any town of any size usually has a pub. A chocolate box. Reception room instead of a living room. A host of cottage industries and local producers of food products. Mainstream US tv ignores everything but London. Since my family originated from the UK I find England and it's history very interesting. A lot of the grade 2 homes were built before the US was a even a country. Every 4th of July a friend sends me a greeting (happy treason day) . Glad to have some UK members on the forum as well as members from all over the world.
Hi KK, thanks for the appreciation! As for our country lanes, plenty around here and sure, many are single track requiring one good soul to reverse to a passing place when two cars meet. Another scooter advantage!
Real issue though in popular holiday spots like Devon and Cornwall though where cars towing caravans up narrow roads can log jam whole areas.
Where in England do your ancestors hail from?
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Goes back to the Middle Ages KK. When England was Catholic “By Our Lady” was an oath or curse. Down the centuries it got contracted to bloody. Now you know. [emoji3]
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Worked closely with a girl from Hull, U.K., for a decade.
Sweet lady. Liked her uniforms v e r y short.
Still recall trying to explain baseball to her, when we took van loads of psychiatric patients to Cincinnati Reds games. What a laugh!
She finally said, "it sounds like Rounders"....if I recall correctly. Whatever that is.
Stig
(we took the patients out, somewhere, every Fri for 9 years. Never a problem. Good training for moderating this forum, 😊 )
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She finally said, "it sounds like Rounders"....if I recall correctly. Whatever that is.
Stig
Ha! I'll bet she didn't explain that one. Rounders is a primary / junior school game over here that the little 'uns play. So not exactly a compliment! :D
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I had an ok experience with the couple kendas I have used. The grip was good but the tire wore out way to fast. I currently use the shinko tires for a decent budget pair and they have a good balance of grip and lifespan.
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With our roads / weather I'm more interested in grip than longevity TBR! City Grips on my (admittedly lighter) Honda PCX were a great feel so I may be tempted to go with a known entity?
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Right! Which is why I am getting rid of the original front Shin something tire which is barely worn at 20,000k and has the grip of high density polyethylene.
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Right! Which is why I am getting rid of the original front Shin something tire which is barely worn at 20,000k and has the grip of high density polyethylene.
Teflon coated?
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Firestone, "Town and Country", were my preferred all weather tires.... ..if that's any help. (might have to spread the fender a little on a Beetle )
Stig
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You’ve moved onto 4-wheelers there I guess Stig?
Not too much call for winter tyres here and I’m currently running Sailuns year round on my wife’s Range Rover. Quietly impressive they are. A pleasant surprise and a real wallet saver.
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You’ve moved onto 4-wheelers there I guess Stig?
Not too much call for winter tyres here and I’m currently running Sailuns year round on my wife’s Range Rover. Quietly impressive they are. A pleasant surprise and a real wallet saver.
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Sailuns….new to me.
What color are they? :)
Stig
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They may be Chinese?...
My tyre guy rates them Stig and I trust his advice. This is the type I have on the Landy:
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Sailun/Atrezzo-ZSR.htm
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Right! Which is why I am getting rid of the original front Shin something tire which is barely worn at 20,000k and has the grip of high density polyethylene.
Cheng Shins? Also known as CST (Cheng Shin Tyres?) also known as... the budget brand for Maxxis :O
I have never really understood the hatred for Maxxis on this forum. I've never had a bad tyre from them. I do wonder if we get different ones to the states. My old bike racer friend switched to them permanently from Pirellis, he liked them that much.
I'm from Cornwall in the UK. If two cars fit, they go through. Kissing wing mirrors is acceptable. If two won't go, you both slam on the brakes and then one of you reverses at an irresponsible speed until there's enough space. There aren't many ditches down in that part of the country so you can get as close to the hedge as your paintwork can tolerate :)
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I might try another cst tire on the rear as they last a while. I would prefer more grip upfront however, and lifetime is irrelevant with the amount the front wears. I haven't used maxxis but have known many people who loved them.
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Cheng Shins? Also known as CST (Cheng Shin Tyres?) also known as... the budget brand for Maxxis :O
I have never really understood the hatred for Maxxis on this forum. I've never had a bad tyre from them. I do wonder if we get different ones to the states. My old bike racer friend switched to them permanently from Pirellis, he liked them that much.
I'm from Cornwall in the UK. If two cars fit, they go through. Kissing wing mirrors is acceptable. If two won't go, you both slam on the brakes and then one of you reverses at an irresponsible speed until there's enough space. There aren't many ditches down in that part of the country so you can get as close to the hedge as your paintwork can tolerate :)
My beef with Maxxis.
My Liberty's 14"rear Maxxis went past the wear bars before 6000 miles.
Same rider, same route, approx same weight scooter, on 12" wheel went over 12,ooo miles on a City Grip.
Wet grip was better on the City Grip, too.
No CG avail for the Liberty, so had to go with Angels...install this winter I hope.
True, the front 16" Maxxis looks barely used after 65oo miles.... (even with a plug in it)
Stig
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My X-Town 300 came fitted with Kenda rubber and whilst dry weather performance is fine, I’ve recently had the “benefit” of testing their wet weather performance. Kindest thing I can say is they do not inspire confidence. Now pondering something like Metzler Feelfree Wintec replacements based on pneus on line reviews*, but first wondered what thoughts were out in forum land?
* https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/test/motorcycle-tyre/search-test/
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Tyre update:
Well, I’ve taken the plunge and decided to swap out the Kenda’s before the winter wet weather arrives. In the end availability governed choice and I’ve gone with Michelin City Grip 2’s.
The CG’s I had on my last scooter were faultless, so go with what you know I guess.
Delivery is 3-5 days so it’ll be a while for the before & after report.
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Yesterday I got two set's of tires in the mail. One pair of Michelin City Grip's and one pair of Pirelli angel's. Might try a set of Maxxis on the Orange. Found the Michelin City Grip's on clearance, getting ready for the City Grip 2's. Still $180. a pair on sale.
I wanted to try a pair of Metzler Feelfree on the Orange but cannot find them except in front radial and rear bias ply tires. 120/70-15 and 150/70-14 on the Orange.
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You’ve moved onto 4-wheelers there I guess Stig?
Not too much call for winter tyres here and I’m currently running Sailuns year round on my wife’s Range Rover. Quietly impressive they are. A pleasant surprise and a real wallet saver.
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I run Sailun's 16" load range G on my 5th wheel RV, come highly recommend. I believe they are made in China. On my pickup I run Hankook tires. They use to be made in South Korea but last two sets came from Clarksdale TN.
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Found the Michelin City Grip's on clearance, getting ready for the City Grip 2's. Still $180. a pair on sale.
I paid £120 for the CG2’s, about $150?
[emoji106]
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I paid £120 for the CG2’s, about $150?
[emoji106]
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150/70-14 CG Rear $146. List- sale price $100.56. 120/70-15 CG front $114. List- sale $81.40. I noticed a lot lower price in the UK on tires on ebay but shipping was outrageous to the US.
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Yeah often see that going the other way too. What looks like a bargain suddenly evaporates when you factor in shipping!
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Yeah often see that going the other way too. What looks like a bargain suddenly evaporates when you factor in shipping!
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Not to mention the exchange rate of currency.
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Ordered another set of Pirelli angels for the Grand Vista this morning. Would have gone with City grips but they seem to only have pure power in that size.
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The excitement is mounting. The Michelin CG2 Rear arrived from France (!) this morning. I had to order direct as my tyre guy couldn't get a rear from his supplier. I let him know and he'll be over on Tuesday morning to fit the pair. :D Will try and sneak a photo as his mobile set up is well impressive.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200918/b889477467ba01c6628cf99d4a5ca412.jpg)
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OK, Martin my tyre main man is working on the XT as I type and the Michelin City Grip 2's will soon be fitted. Looking forward to trying them out later!
:D
His set up inside the van is not really visible as the sun got into the lens, but trust me, in there he's go all the heavy tyre removal equipment all powered by an on board generator. Impressive stuff.
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So the tire guy comes to you? That's convenient, do you have have to remove the wheels or does he do the entire job?
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No, he does the entire job!! I've been using him for over 10 years now and it's great really as he is sooo knowledgeable when it comes to anything and everything to do with tyres. A biker too of course, he runs a classic GSXR from the 80's I think.
Just off in a moment to scrub them in. Happy days!
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Must say the CG2’s have transformed the handling. The XT now rolls into a turn quickly and then goes round like it’s on rails! What a delight.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200922/d3ee8f9c4a0b11c49a43310537ad0d8c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200922/ac86976d1f5f9b262eb046fad4addaa7.jpg)
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Just curious what does he charge? The dealer I use I beleive is $90. rear on the bike and $70. front on the bike. And of course I have to take it down to him.
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Must say the CG2’s have transformed the handling. The XT now rolls into a turn quickly and then goes round like it’s on rails! What a delight.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200922/d3ee8f9c4a0b11c49a43310537ad0d8c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200922/ac86976d1f5f9b262eb046fad4addaa7.jpg)
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Both tyres looks exactly the same ? Are you also running a rear tyre in front ?
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That is correct mounting for City Grips. Front and rears have the same tread pattern. Some are labeled 'reinforced' for heavier loading.
Stig
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Just curious what does he charge? The dealer I use I beleive is $90. rear on the bike and $70. front on the bike. And of course I have to take it down to him.
I paid £100 all in for two tyres fitted, including wheel removal refitting & balancing. I sourced the rear for £52. So £150 tvm!
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Both tyres looks exactly the same ? Are you also running a rear tyre in front ?
Yep. It seems the front can also used as a rear on some scooters! You get both front & rear direction arrows on the sidewall... My head hurts.
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I paid £100 all in for two tyres fitted, including wheel removal refitting & balancing. I sourced the rear for £52. So £150 tvm!
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Cost for Michelin CG frt& rear $182 mount and balance with taking off and install on bike $160. Total $342 or 268.59£
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Dropped the Versey 650 off at Dan's Cycle for a new rear tire, oil change, brake fluid flush and air filter today. When he gets done will exchange Orange for a new set of tires.
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Yep. It seems the front can also used as a rear on some scooters! You get both front & rear direction arrows on the sidewall... My head hurts.
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I’m using a “rear” City Grip (with only one arrow) in front on my scoot. It’s now running “backwards” - according to the arrow. Works perfectly under all conditions. The size is the same as the tire at the rear - slightly bigger than the usual smaller tyre in front.
I think since installing the bigger tire in front the speedo on my scoot now give more accurate readings.. So my next front tyre will be a “rear” City Grip in front again.
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Cost for Michelin CG frt& rear $182 mount and balance with taking off and install on bike $160. Total $342 or 268.59£
Wow, that’s extortionate! I feel your (financial) pain.
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I’m using a “rear” City Grip (with only one arrow) in front on my scoot. It’s now running “backwards” - according to the arrow. Works perfectly under all conditions. The size is the same as the tire at the rear - slightly bigger than the usual smaller tyre in front.
I think since installing the bigger tire in front the speedo on my scoot now give more accurate readings.. So my next front tyre will be a “rear” City Grip in front again.
Yes, I assume new stock will be like mine and carry both arrows? Confirmation that these CG2’s are interchangeable for front/rear application.
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I noticed they have the Michelin City Grip 2's where I bought mine from for $200. a pair or 157.53 £.
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Wow, that’s extortionate! I feel your (financial) pain.
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Compound that with reshoeing 4 scooters. At least it will be done and I don't have to do it.
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Glad I’ve only the one scooter and one motorcycle to worry about! Even then, why is it they always need doing at the same time?...
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Glad I’ve only the one scooter and one motorcycle to worry about! Even then, why is it they always need doing at the same time?...
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When you purchase low mileage garage queens tire age comes with it. I factor that in when making a offer. None of the tires are close to being wore out tread wise but have sidewall cracking. The Yamaha Majesty 400 I just purchased only has 1300 miles on it, with cracked original tires. Orange not many more miles with cracked original tires. The GV didn't look at the tires may have been replaced but will put on a set of Pirelli Angles.
Don't see any cracking in the Michelin Pilot s on the Lambretta uno even though original 2008's has 2200 miles on it. Will not replace.
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That's some collection KK. How you keep track of that lot beats me, do you have a maintenance spreadsheet?!
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That's some collection KK. How you keep track of that lot beats me, do you have a maintenance spreadsheet?!
Just when they have been rode last. I put a yellow post-it note on the bike with the date it was last rode.
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OK, the new Michelin CG2's are getting scrubbed in OK and some spirited riding ensued earlier. For the first time with this scooter today I inadvertently achieved "touchdown" on a RH bend - something that I don't think I ever came close to with the OEM Kenda's! Raises a question though. In all other cases of bikes / scooters I've ridden with a centre stand it's been the feet ends of the stand which have brushed the tarmac. Not so here where it's at the mounting end of the stand as you can see:
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Think I'd rather scape there than at the feet, since it's more in the center of the bike. When the feet scrape it's closer to the rear tire, making it easier to go down.
Pretty sure that makes sense, not sure I explained it well.
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No, I can see what you mean. You’re right too. On my old Honda PCX the foot dug in so well on one occasion it levered the rear tyre off the tarmac for an instant! That was a sphincter clenching moment til it sorted itself out... it’s what prompted me to install a set of YSS shocks.
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