KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Agility 125 => Topic started by: TBR125 on July 06, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
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Hi,
I have found the clutch engage rpm of my Agility 125 has been lowering over the years. New engage rpm was 3,600, now it is down to 2,455. I would like to raise it to 4000-4500. How do I know what stiffness spring to buy? What is the pound compression of the stock? Any input is appreciated.
I am also dropping to 12 gram Dr. pulley sliders as more power is needed for the larger variator pulley I installed.
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I've never paid a lot of attention to the various clutch pad springs available...but it seems like they are always color coded to their level of stiffness (soft, medium, firm)..how stiff are they, exactly? who knows!
It would probably be helpful to reach out to one of the online scooter parts sellers and see if you can talk to a knowledgeable person.
Your Agility 125cc motor probably falls very nicely in line with the more common Chinese GY6 150 cc motors so there should be plenty of options out there for you.
I follow a few scooter shops on youtube that also have a strong online parts presence... scooter swap shop in Portland and rolling wrench in Denver are 2 that come to mind.
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Thanks, If I can figure how to remove the clutch nut. I hate impacting wrenching against the gear box and my electric impact won't remove it anyway. Any thoughts?
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if you're talking about the big clutch nut (and not the nut that holds the clutch bell on) there's been a youtube video around for a while of a guy using a very large adjustable wrench...found it...
https://youtu.be/aEDdglsl9PM
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did a search for the different clutch springs...and found this
https://gy6motor.com/ncy-clutch-springs-2000-rpm-red-gy6
the problem is the engagement rpm...these springs say 1000 rpm for blue springs, 1500 for yellow and 2000 rpm for the red springs (linked above)...are there 'racing' springs with much higher engagement rpm?
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I was referring to the 17mm bell nut. The stock clutch springs are 1000 rpm. 3.6-1 ratio at idle creates 1000 rpm at clutch when engine is at 3600. I think my springs have weakened to approximately 800 rpm. Thanks for the link. I have decided to splurge and buy a full set from china. At least one of them will be what I am looking for.
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good luck with the springs! You'll have to let us know how it turns out.
For removing the nut on the clutch bell I've had success using a home made clutch holder tool. Keeps the clutch from rotating then use a 24" breaker bar and the nut comes right off. A piece of 1" x 1/4" x 24" bar stock works.
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Thanks, If I can figure how to remove the clutch nut. I hate impacting wrenching against the gear box and my electric impact won't remove it anyway. Any thoughts?
$12 clutch holding tool, ebay.
Cheater pipe on your ratchet handle.
Stig
...and can testify that impact gunning that big 39mm clutch nut is....pretty exciting. Wear a helmet!....in case your Keds slip off.
M. Tom
...and as to spring question - here's where a good scooter shop would be nice to have as an info source. But we might be on the wrong continent for that.
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I found some good shops in India. Definitely the wrong continent.
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good luck with the springs! You'll have to let us know how it turns out.
For removing the nut on the clutch bell I've had success using a home made clutch holder tool. Keeps the clutch from rotating then use a 24" breaker bar and the nut comes right off. A piece of 1" x 1/4" x 24" bar stock works.
Nice simple design. Beats trying to hold the bike upright with the rear brake clamped and operating the mega wrench with a foot.
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I was referring to the 17mm bell nut. The stock clutch springs are 1000 rpm. 3.6-1 ratio at idle creates 1000 rpm at clutch when engine is at 3600. I think my springs have weakened to approximately 800 rpm. Thanks for the link. I have decided to splurge and buy a full set from china. At least one of them will be what I am looking for.
The original clutch on my Agility has a red spring - so I guess a red (performance) spring is actually the correct spring for all Agilitys. My Agilty does not have a rev counter - but I am quite convinced the engine revs were never higher that 3600 at take off.
I recently installed a new 125 / 150cc Chinese clutch on my Agility. I can't remember the spring color, but I decided to open the Variator and clutch setup during the next engine oil change for inspection. I will also have a look at the clutch spring color. As mentioned at another thread - unlike before my Agility's engine does not run slower and the scooter does not loose speed when I ride uphill in our area. I hope to find a way to compare spring tension, and will also have a close look whether the greased rollers are causing any problems.
If I find any difference I will let you know.
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Oh sorry, you were obviously referring to the three inner clutch springs which holds the clutch pad arms.
I was referring to the big clutch spring, which obviously has nothing to do with at what engine RPMs the clutch will engage.
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I am surprised a red was used for the main torque spring. I hope red means something else in China as I haven't found stiffer springs than the red 2000rpm.
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The colors are - well, suggestive, and not really meaningful although many follow the same white, yellow, red scheme for some. What is it - green, blue, black for some? I think they all follow that 1000, 1500, 2000 rpm generalization.
More important is wire size and length. Finding the proper size can be tricky.
Install a proper set and try them out. Change to the ones that suit you. Having a tach helps in determining the take off rpms.
I've found Treatland to have a good selection of springs.
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Thanks for the link. The given rpm has so many variables that I am not expecting the springs to be accurate within 20-25% which is why I got several "for science"
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Thanks Iahawk for the inspiration. I tried an ebay clutch holder to no avail. $3.27 for a 36inch clutch holding tool beats online prices and it came right off without breaking a sweat.
Now I've got to buy a 39mm socket.
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Thanks Iahawk for the inspiration. I tried an ebay clutch holder to no avail. $3.27 for a 36inch clutch holding tool beats online prices and it came right off without breaking a sweat.
Now I've got to buy a 39mm socket.
There are no 39mm sockets! You have to use a 39mm (or 32mm on some bikes) box spanner. If you search for "39mm spanner" or "clutch nut wrench" on Google, lots of choices will pop up. They're cheap, only used for scooter clutches.
For the main nut holding the clutch onto the drive shaft, a simple electric impact wrench takes it on and off. Don't over-tighten on re-assembly!
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I've never paid a lot of attention to the various clutch pad springs available...but it seems like they are always color coded to their level of stiffness (soft, medium, firm)..how stiff are they, exactly? who knows!
Clutch springs are color-coded, most commonly blue,red,yellow (high rpm). I prefer yellow springs to allow a little "space" off idle, before the clutch engages at about 4000rpm.
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A 1.5" socket was pretty easily 'persuaded ' onto my big clutch nut.
Stig
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There are many 39mm sockets. Their primary purpose is for front axle nuts on fwd vehicles. I bought a 39mm 1/2 inch drive socket to use with the impact gun and the nut came right off. I believe the correct color order is blue, yellow, red (if I am not mistaken) with the red being the most "Sporty".
I used a red contra spring and red clutch springs. The clutch engaged at 2100rpm with the old springs but at 4600 with the reds. I might drop to yellow after I do some more extensive testing. With the stiffer contra spring the bike climbs a lot better but I may have lost too much top speed. I will check tomorrow when there is enough light to read the tach at speed.
I used caliper grease on the pins after cleaning everything and also greased the needle and ball bearing with good old lucas green high temp. It was my first clutch service on the bike and I got it done in 2 hours ready for driving to work in the morning. The future 155cc bbk will be pushing my overnight service window.
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TBR - glad it worked out for you!
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I used a disc brake from a 1/2 ton pick up it has a hole the right size for the 39 mm. socket, and you can put your knees on the side to hold it from popping up, robot from scooter west did a show on removing that nut, and he could put his feet in the side to compress the spring, if I tried that I cannot reach the nut, too old,. cant bend,. when you take the nut off mark it , so you can retighten it to the same spot + just a tad more, 1/8 of a inch, no more than that,
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I used a red contra spring and red clutch springs. The clutch engaged at 2100rpm with the old springs but at 4600 with the reds. ............With the stiffer contra spring the bike climbs a lot better but I may have lost too much top speed.
My Agility’s clutch actually had a red contra spring when I bought the scooter. I bought the scooter 2nd hand so I’m not sure whether the spring had been intalled by the previous owner. Most of the red paint were gone, so maybe the spring was 2nd hand.
The new Chinese clutch came with a spring with no color - it’s just bare metal. I think the Chinese spring without color is probably stiffer than the red spring at my original Kymco clutch - because climbing ability is also a lot better since the Chinese clutch has been installed. Maybe the red spring at my original clutch has lost some tension by time.
I tried a little bit of grease on the Variator rollers but the grease has been removed in the meanwhile - it did not make any difference. In fact - almost all grease found it’s way out of the vatiator. Fortunately nothing ended up on the belt or pulleys.
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De dee's comment made me laugh.
I could put the impact gun on the clutch, or my feet.
Never both.
I opted for the impact gun paired with closed modular Nolan helmet😊
Very exciting!
Stig
*it was possible to hold it closed with one manly hand...and thread the nut back on with the other....though an assistant would have been helpful at that point.
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My Agility’s clutch actually had a red contra spring when I bought the scooter. I bought the scooter 2nd hand so I’m not sure whether the spring had been intalled by the previous owner. Most of the red paint were gone, so maybe the spring was 2nd hand.
The new Chinese clutch came with a spring with no color - it’s just bare metal. I think the Chinese spring without color is probably stiffer than the red spring at my original Kymco clutch - because climbing ability is also a lot better since the Chinese clutch has been installed. Maybe the red spring at my original clutch has lost some tension by time.
I tried a little bit of grease on the Variator rollers but the grease has been removed in the meanwhile - it did not make any difference. In fact - almost all grease found it’s way out of the vatiator. Fortunately nothing ended up on the belt or pulleys.
The stock springs on my agility were red but not the same as the Koso reds. The stock red felt a little lighter than the yellow Koso.
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.................... The stock red felt a little lighter than the yellow Koso.
Thanks for mentioning. I have a sensitive scale - maybe I can compare weight and spring tension in future. It would be interesting to know exactly why the scoot perform better when riding uphill. Top speed might be lower but I never ride long distances or at high speed. So lower speed would not bother me.
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The contra spring keeps the cvt from up-shifting until a certain torque is reached. The red contra is too stiff (keeping the engine at 6800rpm which is way above max torque at 5500) so I will drop down to the yellow spring. Also the red Koso clutch springs firmly engage the clutch at 4300rpm which is too high for my riding preferences. I will try the yellows which should drop it to 3600-4000rpm.