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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kansas kymco on July 05, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
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With the advancement in electric motorcycles do you feel are scooters will become obsolete before long? No more CVT just a electronic speed control, fuel tank replaced with a battery.
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that's a great question...and one that also applies to motorcycles and cars. I think until battery and recharging technology advance to the point where we can have the same range and the same fill up (recharge) time we'll still have internal combustion engines.
Once the price, performance, run time, recharge time, etc. is the equal or better than gas engines will probably be the time we start making the switch.
It's one of those things where it's not the question of 'if' we will make the change but 'when'.
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great if your travels are within grid destinations, it's easier to strap on a jug of gas than a generator that needs that jug o gas, or bulky solar panels ....... and power from the jug of gas is immediate, now wait for recharge.
I don't carry a cell phone either, cause they are generally useless beyond the grid of towers
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I would definitely consider an electric scoot or cycle IF recharge time could match refueling time. Meanwhile, I will remain with gasoline.
I am happy there are wealthy people who simply must have the first of the next new thing so their funds help development. Meanwhile....
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I believe the 50cc and lower scoots can and are being replaced by electric drive. Lifan's LF1200DT was fairly successful in even third world markets such as Belize. Granted with only 8,800 square miles of land it was only 30 miles east to west. As previously stated the range but more importantly the recharge time will be the limiting factor. Extra range and power is easy to get with more cells, but I don't think people will want a machine that won't handle all of a days driving on one charge.
My favorite story showcasing the recharge draw back of electric transport was when an acquaintance drove 4 hours to Atlanta to trade his Toyota Camry for a Nissan leaf but had to stop every 1.5 hours for a 3 hr recharge on his return. He sold the vehicle the same week.
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I would definitely consider an electric scoot or cycle IF recharge time could match refueling time. Meanwhile, I will remain with gasoline.
I am happy there are wealthy people who simply must have the first of the next new thing so their funds help development. Meanwhile....
Crossbolt I'm with you on this. I drive old stuff anyway to save on taxes and insurance.
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I do agree that it's a matter of when rather than if. I think I will just about see the end of petrol in my lifetime and the general adoption of electric vehicles but it'll probably be quite a close thing!
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At 81, I will not have to worry about electric replacing gas. Think trips/recharge time/hassle/weight, etc.
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I do agree that it's a matter of when rather than if. I think I will just about see the end of petrol in my lifetime and the general adoption of electric vehicles but it'll probably be quite a close thing!
I'd agree with you Viper but for one consideration. I'm sure that I read somewhere that there are not enough known reserves of the metals needed for (current technology) batteries to replace out all of the current internal combustion engines. If true we may rather be waiting for either new technology batteries or reliable hydrogen power cells?
Either way, yes I'd happily switch over to an eco alternative powered scoot.
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maybe it's cause of my work as a land use consultant, I live in a rural area, and instead of taking me toward civilization like most people, I head further out in the sticks, I'm mostly retired now, but those are the habits I continue to have. Electric vehicles don't work without charging ability. I can see electric vehicles working well in metropolitan areas
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RANDYO- I feel the same way if a person has a commute that's a set pattern electric vehicles might work well. On a Romeo ride I might go to rural areas where no charge station is available several hours away and back. Plus the cost CROSSBOLT alluded to. I pick up used Kymco low mileage scooters for a low cost that work well for my needs..
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Until there is a power grid with recharge stations every 100miles, I don't see electric drive replacing petrol cars anywhere other than in the cities. With Americans driving more annual miles than in almost any other country the lack of recharge infrastructure is a handicap. I think an option could be battery swap stations like other countries do with compressed fuel bottles (butane, propane, natural gas), however, as there is not a way to develop the system gradually, development will incur an astronomical upfront cost.
With the same material and technological input used in electric vehicles, petrol cars have so much room for improvement. Electric motors are running 97-99% efficient while petrol engines use only 23-25% of the available BTU's. If car engines were 90% efficient (which has been done in single applications) there would be less energy loss than electric with the main reason being that there is loss and cost at every energy conversion. In 2019 there were over 280,000,000 registered vehicles in the US. The Tesla 3 as an example uses 50 kWh for a max range of 250 miles. Multiplied by even a conservative 200,000,000 units would require more power than can currently be supplied. If electric vehicles are the future of transport, nuclear power plants will be required in vast numbers to supply the power demands.
Sorry about the length. I'm fascinated by the topic of energy forms and its consumption.
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yeah, with current technology there's no way we can replace all gas engines. I'm thinking futuristic...like a time when we have a power source the size of a D cell battery that provides the power to travel 300 miles. Throw a few of those in a bag and you can ride across the country with no need for old fashioned plug in recharging stations! (just dreaming, here)
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From https://www.iea.org/commentaries/population-without-access-to-electricity-falls-below-1-billion (https://www.iea.org/commentaries/population-without-access-to-electricity-falls-below-1-billion)
"However despite all of these stories of progress and success, the world still remains off-track in its efforts to achieve Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) 7.1 to ensure universal access to affordable, reliable and modern energy services by 2030. "
This just addresses a LITTLE bit of electricity every day, and doesn't even BEGIN to address the grid infrastructure necessary for recharging 100% of the electric vehicles. EVEN IN the U.S., that remains a question: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/01/09/electric-cars-will-challenge-state-power-grids. (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/01/09/electric-cars-will-challenge-state-power-grids.) This article has EVs hitting the 50% barrier in 2040: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/09/electric-cars-replace-gasoline-engines-2040/ (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/09/electric-cars-replace-gasoline-engines-2040/)
That is two articles where EVs dont even hit 50% until 2040. For ICE engines to go away, we need top tier electrical service to the last mile.... WORLDWIDE. That is not going to happen in my lifetime, despite the hype of the media.
Ask this question again in about 50 years and you may get a different answer.
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Reminds me of the graphene craze. Still waiting on the elevator to space, A.K.A. stairway to heaven.
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Kansas has the highest percentage supplied by wind power 36% I beleive. I have rode by a very large wind farm on my scooter early morning without a single blade turning. Power needs still need to be met. Nuclear or natural gas fired energy plants cannot be simply turned off and on and run continues regardless of wind power. The excess is sold on the energy market to other states.
Another thing people don't take into account is the mining of materials used to make batteries that is very toxic. Kansas is a prime example of what coal and lead mining has done to the environment. Where the coal strip mines were located has been reclaimed and is usable. Where the lead mines were located the towns were purchased by the government as a toxic environment that will probably not ever be inhabited again. Look where the mines are to produce the materials for batteries and they are already having issues with the limited number in use.
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yeah, with current technology there's no way we can replace all gas engines. I'm thinking futuristic...like a time when we have a power source the size of a D cell battery that provides the power to travel 300 miles. Throw a few of those in a bag and you can ride across the country with no need for old fashioned plug in recharging stations! (just dreaming, here)
When the roads become up-scaled wireless chargers:) But who knows where things will go in a lifetime, one generation went from covered wagons to a man on the moon.
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Kansas has the highest percentage supplied by wind power 36% I beleive. I have rode by a very large wind farm on my scooter early morning without a single blade turning. Power needs still need to be met. Nuclear or natural gas fired energy plants cannot be simply turned off and on and run continues regardless of wind power. The excess is sold on the energy market to other states.
Another thing people don't take into account is the mining of materials used to make batteries that is very toxic. Kansas is a prime example of what coal and lead mining has done to the environment. Where the coal strip mines were located has been reclaimed and is usable. Where the lead mines were located the towns were purchased by the government as a toxic environment that will probably not ever be inhabited again. Look where the mines are to produce the materials for batteries and they are already having issues with the limited number in use.
Look what sulfur off-gas from copper mining/smelting did to Ducktown. Kingston coal plant alone up toward Knoxville uses 14,000 tons of coal per day. That equates to emissions for many cars. Electricity is never emission free when you look at processes of manufacture.
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I think the fairground dodgem car idea has some mileage (pardon the pun)
Every road will be covered with an overhead electrified chicken wire mesh gantry and the vehicle simply extends a pole to the mesh and hey presto, clean green constant power. No need for batteries etc.
The only downside is having the pikey fairground worker hanging off the back of your vehicle (particularly if you are female) asking if you want to go faster and grabbing the steering wheel every once in a while.
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I would like to see more research into tidal energy, the most reliable energy source on the planet, moving the electricity to where it need to be used is another. Tides in downeast Maine could supply the whole country
(https://www.tide-forecast.com/tides/Eastport-Passamaquoddy-Bay-Maine.png)
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Sure, at some point.
But uhhhh, at my age - doubt it'll be an issue for me when it comes.
Stig
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Once solid-state batteries become mainstream, then we can charge them in minutes instead of hours. Once happens electric bikes will flood the market.
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A hybrid would be cool. Small gas generator and electric bike/scooter.
If you are going to go a long distance let the generator extend the range.
If this is a Maxi Scooter then the generator could run independent to recharge while rider(s) take a stop.
I could see something as large as the Myroad 7001 being electric and hybrid.
We get a 150 ish mile range now on the 700i .If the hybrid can make it 300 miles well I would be ready to get off that seat a couple of hours for recharging and some refreshments.
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I know that one day, scooters will be obsolete, we will have speeders with no wheels, a power module that will be good for the lifetime of te speeder and beyond, I've seen em in the movies. How long ago did Jules Verne write fiction of going to the moon, and we made that reality 50 years ago, probably not in my lifetime, but I bet that I already have living progeny that will see it
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I drive old stuff anyway to save on taxes and insurance.
I'm with you in principle except there';s no saving in insurance or taxes where I live. But I save a bundle by driving old-tech scooters with carburetor, 2010 and older. I can't afford to take a fuel injected machine to a dealer if it won't start! So an electric scoot would suit me just fine.