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General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: TBR125 on May 31, 2020, 02:43:39 PM

Title: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on May 31, 2020, 02:43:39 PM
I went to start my Agility 125 and I heard a "chink" sound from the starter area when I pressed the start switch. Of important note, I filled the fuel tank and the gauge read full. When I press the START switch the FUEL GAUGE is powered to empty in 1.5-2.0 seconds and the starter doesn't make a sound. Makes me think a short.

Where do I start? I am good with mechanics but don't know electrical harnesses yet. I can use a multi meter.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on May 31, 2020, 02:55:17 PM
Correction: The fuel gauge goes to empty if I apply either brake. It is not the start switch.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on May 31, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
You have a ground wire disconnected or corroded or loose somewhere. Typically for any Kymco scooter there is a ground point machine right near start relay/solenoid and reg/rectifier  plus up front behind/below headlight.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on May 31, 2020, 07:28:22 PM
Thanks for the heads up! I will start with that and get back when done.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 03:30:07 PM
The fuel unit harness plug reads .6 Ohm and the rear brake light harness plug reads .8 Ohm. Is that standard or a short? The headlight and all turn signal harness plugs read 0 Ohms as well as the grounds.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 05:49:26 PM
I have eliminated issues in the harness all the way to the main harness disconnect by the stem. The issue should be in this front harness.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 07:51:06 PM
Problem found!

It's a brake light to fuel sender short. It is a ground wire issue like you said, thanks Crossbolt. The wires are marked on the diagram.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 01, 2020, 08:34:18 PM
Hey! Anyone who even is dimly aware of WHAT a Simpson 260 is must by default figger out what any problem is!

Oops! Mirror scale = 270! That makes you an expert!

How did they short together?
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Ha! It's the Simpson 270 series five. I found that treasure at a pawn shop for 15$ because it wouldn't take an internal battery. It was just a bent terminal.

Regarding the short, I wasn't able to pin point it for fixing as the resistance between the shorting wires increased as I unwrapped all the tape and then the short was gone. I will tape the offending wires separately so they hopefully can't touch again.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 01, 2020, 08:45:41 PM
Ha! It's the series five. I found that treasure at a pawn shop because it wouldn't take an internal battery. It was just a bent terminal. 15$
I had a 260 from 1961. Bought it to have a decent meter on a Navy ship! Had that until 2004 when we went full time RV park working.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
I should have a good meter for a long while then.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 01, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
*Updated*

After unwrapping the entire harness I found the culprit. The ground split in the photo is not wrapped separately from the yellow. They shorted after a wire strand poked through the insulation.

The clock was replaced 4 years ago under warranty and the dealer re-wrapped the outside but did not replace the connector protectors. I am now really determined to do any work myself. 5 minutes and a foot of tape would have saved my 3 days of searching and lack of transport.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 02, 2020, 12:14:11 AM
You have concluded like many of us here that you, me, we all can do a better job than nearly any dealer tech. Most techs are under a gun to do everything in a hurry and their pay is tailored to enforce this BUT that is really their problem! One little wire strand? That the one I think I see?
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 02, 2020, 02:24:59 AM
It opened a 1 by .5mm hole in the insulation, slowly wore through with time apparently.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 03, 2020, 07:25:32 PM
Well, that exact short is gone but another remains. I know it is not between wires because I individually wrapped all harness wires with a total of 3 rolls of electrical tape. I am having trouble tracing the issue as it disappears whenever I move the harness.

Any suggestions before I build a new harness? I would like to eliminate the harness as the issue so I know it is an electrical component that I can test to locate.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 03, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
Well, anyone with a Simpson just KNOWS what has to be done! You gotta wiggle everything until you get the exact spot where you get it to appear then disappear on command! Then unwrap ten miles of tape to see what little demon like you found before!
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 03, 2020, 07:44:32 PM
Can an issue occur inside a plug? As in plug terminals contacting.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 03, 2020, 08:05:29 PM
Yes. One of the things I harp on is silicone dielectric grease in every connector. Learned that from Ford some years ago....seems they started that to prevent connectivity gremlins from upsetting the electrical apple cart. Works on Kymcos, too!
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 03, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
I use dielectric heavily but I will definitely step it up.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 05, 2020, 12:37:19 AM
I have narrowed down the issue a little. The short only exists when the harness plug at the column is connected. does that mean the problem is in the harness above the main plug?
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 06, 2020, 12:29:46 AM
Now it is solved! It was a dead flasher relay. Wish I had thought of it before de-re-de-re-taping the harness.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 06, 2020, 10:53:37 AM
Now, I am a bit confused. First a short which was found or better, a ground that was not supposed to be. Then....what? A dead flasher for signal lights? What'd I miss?
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: TBR125 on June 06, 2020, 12:26:57 PM
First off, with my minimal knowledge of electric matters I should be more careful in the future to test what I believe to be the cure before stating the problem.

There were two electrical issues that I came across. One was the fuel sender to ground short and that was fixed. I still had a ground issue with other sections of the harness though which I found to be caused by the flasher relay. All systems now operate correctly so that should be the extent of the electrical issue.
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: CROSSBOLT on June 06, 2020, 01:14:47 PM
Awright! Gotcha! Good to hear!
Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: Ruffus on October 01, 2020, 10:20:26 AM
TBR 125, thanks alot for this thread and explaining how you came to your conclusion and finally to solve the issue. I see this therefore most valuable because in many threads technical problems are spoken of, discussed, but at the end no one tells how the failure was found and solved.Feedback.
Ruffus


Title: Re: First Electrical Problem HELP!
Post by: Iahawk on October 01, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
Hey TBR, are you still around? Haven't seen much activity from you, lately. Hope all is well.