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Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 11:18:10 AM

Title: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 11:18:10 AM
On thursday I filled it up, friday morning doesnt want to start, I come back from work, it starts.
Yesterday it started right away and I rode it to and from work, 55 km both ways.
Today it didnt want to start.
So what could be wrong?
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 07, 2020, 12:08:26 PM
To better understand the problem, when you say it "doesn't want to start" is the engine turning over but not catching, or is the starter not operating. If it is the latter then the issue is an electrical problem which someone else will have to address.

If the engine will not catch then the basics to check would be fuel, spark, air probably in that order. To check for fuel pull the spark plug and see if the end is damp, for spark press the starter switch while watching the spark plug for an arc (a dark background might help), and for air make sure the filter is reasonably clean.

Hope that helps, good luck with diagnostics. 
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 12:19:24 PM
Yea, its turning over, but doesnt start it.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 07, 2020, 12:22:02 PM
Okay. Fuel, spark, air applies then.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
Started it again after work, rode  a few km, parked it, shut down, turn the key on, showing engine light code 33.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 07, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
I have not worked with modern bikes. Sorry I can't help with engine codes.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: rdhood on April 07, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
I would check all connections to the sensors and throttle body.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 07, 2020, 06:46:09 PM
Code 33 injector fault. Not necessarily! The ECM is activating the injector by providing a ground to one side of the injector coil. The other side is powered by the fuel pump relay. So before you go down the road the service manual sends you do THIS: LISTEN! When you turn the key on and the tach and speedo do their full scale dance up and back to zero. You should also hear the fuel pump running. I will bet you do when it starts and you don't hear it when it does not start. That means your fuel pump relay is faulty, not the injector!

All the relays in the DT300i are the same part and part number. So if the LISTEN test says "relay" use the hi-beam relay as a replacement while you wait for the part to arrive. Kymco wants 28 bucks US for the relay and I got 5 of them from Amazon for 8 bucks. Single pole, single throw (SPST) relay, automotive.

How do I know this? My 2013 DT300i did the same thing recently!
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 07:39:20 PM
Code 33 injector fault. Not necessarily! The ECM is activating the injector by providing a ground to one side of the injector coil. The other side is powered by the fuel pump relay. So before you go down the road the service manual sends you do THIS: LISTEN! When you turn the key on and the tach and speedo do their full scale dance up and back to zero. You should also hear the fuel pump running. I will bet you do when it starts and you don't hear it when it does not start.
What do you mean with this?
I can hear the fuel pump.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 07, 2020, 07:49:19 PM
Also there is one hose going from where the air filter is that is not connected to anything, what is that for?

The furthest one on the picture.

https://ibb.co/Njvrkdb
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 07, 2020, 08:36:58 PM
Looks like a breather hose.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 07, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
What do you mean with this?
I can hear the fuel pump.
The fuel pump is heard EVERY time? Even when it won't start?

The furthest hose, that the one that looks kind of tan? If that is the one you are indicating, it is supposed to have a black plug in the end of it. Very hard to see. Must lay on your back and look up. The slang name for it is the "Puke tube." Must be drained periodically.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 07, 2020, 11:32:56 PM
I learned that a couple weeks ago. My bikes manual doesn't tell about it and the oil/fuel backed up into the air intake. It made a mess of the carb.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 12:40:36 AM
That Puke Tube slop will stop an engine! Or at least give it aches and pains! Stuff generally stinks like stale fuel and has the consistency of soy sauce.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: TBR125 on April 08, 2020, 02:26:37 AM
That is why it no longer vents to the air intake. I have all vent lines sealed into the lid of a small container that I can pull the bottom off and dump.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 08, 2020, 08:49:45 AM
The fuel pump is heard EVERY time? Even when it won't start?

The furthest hose, that the one that looks kind of tan? If that is the one you are indicating, it is supposed to have a black plug in the end of it. Very hard to see. Must lay on your back and look up. The slang name for it is the "Puke tube." Must be drained periodically.
Yea, that one, nothing on the end of it, no plug.

Every time I turn the key the pump is heard.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 11:28:18 AM
Yea, that one, nothing on the end of it, no plug.

Every time I turn the key the pump is heard.
No plug is not good. That tube needs to be plugged when engine is running.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 08, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
No plug is not good. That tube needs to be plugged when engine is running.
Do I need a specifi plug or will anything do?
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 02:01:44 PM
Anything to stop it up will work.

Thinking more about the main problem....since you can hear the fuel pump run EVERY time you torn the key on lets the relay off the hook. Next suspect is connectivity to the injector.
What I have done with the scoots I have and have had is unplug every connector, liberally apply silicone dielectric grease to every female side of the connector and plug it back in. That cures and prevents corrosion in those metal to metal contacts. See if that works for you.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 08, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
Anything to stop it up will work.

Thinking more about the main problem....since you can hear the fuel pump run EVERY time you torn the key on lets the relay off the hook. Next suspect is connectivity to the injector.
What I have done with the scoots I have and have had is unplug every connector, liberally apply silicone dielectric grease to every female side of the connector and plug it back in. That cures and prevents corrosion in those metal to metal contacts. See if that works for you.

Will try that tomorrow, dont have the time today and the shops arent working now, dont know if gas station has that grease.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 04:06:09 PM
The dielectric grease available at auto parts stores and most Walmarts.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 08, 2020, 04:16:56 PM
The dielectric grease available at auto parts stores and most Walmarts.

Heh, Im from Croatia.
Covid19, stores work until 5 pm, auto stores are not allowed to work.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 06:56:53 PM
Ah! That does complicate things! Had the same trouble with a fellow in Greece trying to get that stuff! We will stand by for you!
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 08, 2020, 07:32:06 PM
Update, went to the scooter few min ago, turn the key, cant hear the pump, tried again, no pump, tried 10 times, no noise from the pump.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 08, 2020, 09:16:53 PM
Aha! Relay!
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 09, 2020, 03:53:01 AM
I just have to take the front plastic off?
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 09, 2020, 09:57:59 AM
Yes, all the little relays except one are above and slightly behind the horn. High and low beam on left, fuel pump on right with start relay. Yours may be different so make sure.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 09, 2020, 03:52:48 PM
They are different, all on the same side, but replaced it, engine is starting now, but engine light is still on when I turn it on, cant clear the code 33, is it safe to ride with engine light showing?
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 09, 2020, 04:40:51 PM
To clear the code disconnect the battery for 30 seconds or more. You can do the same thing by pulling the 30 amp fuse for 30 seconds or more.

Yeay! Hooray!
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 09, 2020, 05:25:04 PM
To clear the code disconnect the battery for 30 seconds or more. You can do the same thing by pulling the 30 amp fuse for 30 seconds or more.

Yeay! Hooray!
Thank you very much Crossbolt, saved me a lot of trouble.
Where can I find the relays to buy and under what name?
Dont think kymco relay will mean much on ebay.



Disconnecting the battery didnt clear the code.
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 09, 2020, 06:09:32 PM
Also I can hear small buzzing sound when turning the key on with throttle opened, dont know if that is normal.

Here is the video.



First is just turning the key on, second is turning the key on with throttle opened, third is starting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSLswv9OJU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSLswv9OJU&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 09, 2020, 07:45:45 PM
The buzzing and whirring sounds just like mine (2013) after you turn the key on. Opening the throttle with key on but not running activates another motor (a tiny one!) In the ISC, Idle Speed Control. The sounds all seem nominal to me and the start is really good! You got it! You fixed it! You are the ace, now!
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: Volcabar on April 09, 2020, 07:59:38 PM
The buzzing and whirring sounds just like mine (2013) after you turn the key on. Opening the throttle with key on but not running activates another motor (a tiny one!) In the ISC, Idle Speed Control. The sounds all seem nominal to me and the start is really good! You got it! You fixed it! You are the ace, now!
You fixed it, I just replaced the parts, thank you.
Where can I buy new relays?
Title: Re: 2012 dowtown starting issue
Post by: CROSSBOLT on April 09, 2020, 08:47:23 PM
Relays from Kymco  about $28 US each. Do you have Amazon available to Croatia? Any 12 volt single pole single throw relay with 1/4 inch (5.5mm) blade lugs will work. You can adapt the automotive relays by either drilling a hole in the metal tabs where Kymco uses a rubber sleeve or notch the automotive relay tab and use cable ties.