KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on February 26, 2020, 07:58:40 PM
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https://powersportsbusiness.com/top-stories/2020/02/21/ex-yamaha-vp-mic-chair-joins-kymco-usa-as-executive-advisor/?oly_enc_id=8232A7803912E3S
Stig
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I saw this story over on the Kymco owners Facebook page I hope this means there will be an affirmation of Kymco as a US brand in the future.
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News! This makes how many changes at the top of Kymco USA? This Dennis McNeal sounds like an enthusiast so that should be a good sign.
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At least it means they are not leaving the US, at least for now.
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I wish him the best of luck. Again, they need some MARKETING! How about doing a series of demo days with dealers? Or getting some of the well-known folks in the off-road community to start pumping the products? You can't grow by sitting around and doing nothing. It takes a consistent effort. I hope they can do that.
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Additionally, they are looking for tech advisors to hire. I volunteered all us guys to help! The way I see it there are several around the country who could actually visit dealers, if necessary, who have problems their techs can't seem to solve. There are possibilities.... did not include any names except mine!
Yes, marketing! Demo days is good. Some hookup with the local MSF instructors to "introduce" newbees to part of the course. Gymkhanas or other skill events at or near dealers, BYOB (Bring Your Own Bike)! I am sure there are more and better ideas out there!
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I hear so many saying that people in the USA don’t buy scooters. But folks won’t buy what they don’t know exists. Most only know about the ones that are good for nothing but city traffic. MAYBE they know about the ones that can go 45-50 mph. When I had my Xciting 250 and my Yamaha Majesty, most didn’t know those kinds existed. They wondered HOW I had an accident on a SCOOTER 120 miles from home because they could only imagine me going 40 mph the whole time. I DID more advertising than KYMCO or YAMAHA!
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See! There is Forbes personally getting coverage for the scoot market! By the way, Forbes, you will be at the top of the list when or better, IF they ask for tech assist!
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I hear so many saying that people in the USA don’t buy scooters. But folks won’t buy what they don’t know exists. Most only know about the ones that are good for nothing but city traffic. MAYBE they know about the ones that can go 45-50 mph. When I had my Xciting 250 and my Yamaha Majesty, most didn’t know those kinds existed. They wondered HOW I had an accident on a SCOOTER 120 miles from home because they could only imagine me going 40 mph the whole time. I DID more advertising than KYMCO or YAMAHA!
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I texted the folks in Taiwan and Japan re. your contribution. "Donuts in the mail" they replied.
Agreed - the first gen. Scion xB was a super car, but was never advertised by Toyota - so the thousands of dancing gerbil commercials sold a ton of Kia Souls , which were barely 1/2 as good. (have had both in my family)
Stig
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Even I didn’t know big scooters existed until stumbled across the Xciting. They can at least TRY ! Perhaps put a scooter in a movie. Perhaps get some celebrity to advertise on MTV, BET, Tv Land , or even OWN , ESPN, or LIFETIME. Market to all those markets and see which one bites. Show them as a tool/play toy for LIFE. Put a 49, 150, 300+ cc on the same commercial as student transportation, suburban toy, to day trip vehicle. Advertise to the Japanese motorcycle rider who still wants 2 wheels, but wants to pick up a few grocery or small hardware items on the way home. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t. But if it does, they’ve reached a whole new market.
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I texted the folks in Taiwan and Japan re. your contribution. "Donuts in the mail" they replied.
Agreed - the first gen. Scion xB was a super car, but was never advertised by Toyota - so the thousands of dancing gerbil commercials sold a ton of Kia Souls , which were barely 1/2 as good. (have had both in my family)
Stig
Exactly! I rented a Soul a few months ago and noticed a BUNCH on the highway. Meanwhile , Scion is extinct.
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We had a KIA Soul a few years ago. Could NOT get those dancing hamsters out of that thing. Traded it WITH the hamsters in it! Har, har!
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See! There is Forbes personally getting coverage for the scoot market! By the way, Forbes, you will be at the top of the list when or better, IF they ask for tech assist!
I rode for only 7 months before my accident and saw the advantages of a scooter. Even used it for some mobile auto repair... Between under seat and my Box on the back, I’ve carried hand tools, electric impact, alternator, even a battery . Stopped by Burlington Coat factory and bought a new suit and a pair of shoes folded the suit carefully , put it under the seat, and carried the shoes in the rear box. [emoji23][emoji23]
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We had a KIA Soul a few years ago. Could NOT get those dancing hamsters out of that thing. Traded it WITH the hamsters in it! Har, har!
[emoji23][emoji23]
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Might be a neat idea to have a Kymco rally at a different place each year. I noticed the Cushman club has such a event. Don't know if there would be enough participants to be worthwhile? Would also be a good place for KYMCO to release new products, say like the AK550.
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Might be a neat idea to have a Kymco rally at a different place each year. I noticed the Cushman club has such a event. Don't know if there would be enough participants to be worthwhile? Would also be a good place for KYMCO to release new products, say like the AK550.
I do really wish I hadn't read reference to the AK550 on here the other day. Looked it up only to see that it is available in the UK and I think I might just be in love. Now how do I tell the good lady that my 6 month-old XT really does NEED to be traded in for an AK?...
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I do really wish I hadn't read reference to the AK550 on here the other day. Looked it up only to see that it is available in the UK and I think I might just be in love. Now how do I tell the good lady that my 6 month-old XT really does NEED to be traded in for an AK?...
You on your own with that one, bud!
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Maybe professional from the US motorcycle industry can perk things up----professional organization should equal professional results.
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Well, at least Dennis McNeal is not an MBA! His degree is in communications which is probably more constructive than business baloney.
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I wish him the best of luck. Again, they need some MARKETING! How about doing a series of demo days with dealers? Or getting some of the well-known folks in the off-road community to start pumping the products? You can't grow by sitting around and doing nothing. It takes a consistent effort. I hope they can do that.
Ummm, all the things that some of you are suggesting, Dealer Demo Days, Scooter Rally, Etc, have been done before by KUS. The Kymco Demo Truck was around up until about 2 years ago and scheduled visits to various dealers across the country. The demo/show truck also attended most of the NHRA Drag Events to open peoples eyes to the Scooters and OHV's. Kymco created a yearly rally that lasted 2 years. The first year saw about 20 riders, the second year was about 6 and was dropped due to lack of interest. Things have changed in the past 2 years, Demo/Show truck was sold (both of them) and the NHRA sponsorship was dropped (grossly expensive). KUS spent a lot of marketing $$ for a company that sold less than 10K units per year. Trust me, there was a good management team, good parts availability and accomplished Tech team at KUS but things began to change, like I said, about 2 years ago.
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Ummm, all the things that some of you are suggesting, Dealer Demo Days, Scooter Rally, Etc, have been done before by KUS. The Kymco Demo Truck was around up until about 2 years ago and scheduled visits to various dealers across the country. The demo/show truck also attended most of the NHRA Drag Events to open peoples eyes to the Scooters and OHV's. Kymco created a yearly rally that lasted 2 years. The first year saw about 20 riders, the second year was about 6 and was dropped due to lack of interest. Things have changed in the past 2 years, Demo/Show truck was sold (both of them) and the NHRA sponsorship was dropped (grossly expensive). KUS spent a lot of marketing $$ for a company that sold less than 10K units per year. Trust me, there was a good management team, good parts availability and accomplished Tech team at KUS but things began to change, like I said, about 2 years ago.
And how much has the world changed in the past two years? A ton. The media landscape is completely different. I agree with you that an NHRA sponsorship is probably not enough bang for the buck. But in today's media environment, what about pouring a fraction of that money into TARGETED social media campaigns and then using those to drive people to dealer events? There is so much you can do with digital marketing today, both to drive sales directly and to educate consumers on the value proposition KYMCO products offer. Even a small scooter rally with 20 riders could generate a TON of digital content. A few key influencers could take the visibility of the ATVs and SxSs from "what is that thing" to "that's the machine so and so drives. I am going to go check one out at my local dealer." Right now, KMYCO has essentially ZERO presence on social media (at least in the U.S.) and ZERO presence in the off-road media. If you search online, you can't find a single review of a KYMCO unit by a dirt publication that's less than four or five years old!
BTW, I happen to the be the editor of a large, hunting-oriented magazine that also has a significant web and social media presence. Before I purchased my UVX, I made contact with the marketing person at KYMCO (who knows if that person is still there) and asked whether there was any kind of demo program. Nope. And kind of industry purchase program? Nope. This would have been a perfect opportunity for them to get some great exposure to a key demographic. They basically said, we don't do anything like that. Compare that to Polaris or Can-Am. I can basically make a phone call and have a brand new unit delivered to a local dealer and keep it for 90 days at no cost to me in exchange for publicity. It's not rocket science, folks. And no, I'm not bitter about it. I went ahead and just wrote a check for my UVX outright because I think it's a cool machine and I don't owe anyone any favors. But the point is, hardly anyone who has seen my new machine can tell me what it is, and that's a shame, and it's not going to change without some effort on KYMCO's part. I'd have been happy to help, and still would be, but they have to do their part. As the old saying goes, HELP ME HELP YOU.
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Pa-outdoorsman, excellent points! There are, like I said, but the ideas fall on deaf ears. Kinda the NIH thing. So are the gang at KUS gonna try anything different? There is the Assphalt Eaters group on facebook that have hundreds of the chinese 50 Ruckus wannabee lowered scoots plus a mixed bag of other brands. There is the Memphis Kings scooter club, who knows how many other groups are there in the nation?
The point is, in my opinion, is all the big expensive ideas fizzled and now it is time for THEM, KUS, to start listening to US! US is the riding public, regardless of brand....
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Pa-outdoorsman, excellent points! There are, like I said, but the ideas fall on deaf ears. Kinda the NIH thing. So are the gang at KUS gonna try anything different? There is the Assphalt Eaters group on facebook that have hundreds of the chinese 50 Ruckus wannabee lowered scoots plus a mixed bag of other brands. There is the Memphis Kings scooter club, who knows how many other groups are there in the nation?
The point is, in my opinion, is all the big expensive ideas fizzled and now it is time for THEM, KUS, to start listening to US! US is the riding public, regardless of brand....
Absolutely! As you pointed out in a different thread, some of the folks on this board could be some of their most powerful marketing tools. They just need to build some relationships and then throw some effort behind it. With today's digital media environment, you can reach a large number of people at a reasonable cost. And, one of the big things social media has proven is that a small group of ENGAGED people is more valuable than just throwing a million darts into the air and seeing what you hit.
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One current problem with 2 wheel market in us----riders/buyers do not ride enough or at all. There is some fun in long rides.....but you have to do it.....not trailer it!
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don't be surprised if the harder marketing in the US, will be for ATVs
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don't be surprised if the harder marketing in the US, will be for ATVs
I would say your correct. Talking to the local dealer the motorcycle market tanked in 2008 and never came back. He makes most of his money on zero turn mowers and UTV'S mostly sold to farmers that can write the expense off.
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I would say your correct. Talking to the local dealer the motorcycle market tanked in 2008 and never came back. He makes most of his money on zero turn mowers and UTV'S mostly sold to farmers that can write the expense off.
OHRVs have become big business here in NH, especially the past couple years whe Polaris moved their annual RZR event to Berlin, NH, It's not as big as bike week in Laconia, "yet"
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OHRVs have become big business here in NH, especially the past couple years whe Polaris moved their annual RZR event to Berlin, NH, It's not as big as bike week in Laconia, "yet"
I'm biased toward the off-road machine, just because that's my area of interest. I know nothing of the scooter market, really. I truly believe that KYMCO could gain traction in the off-road market if they could be successful educating consumers on the quality/price ratio of their machines. However, as I said in an earlier post, considering their partnerships with Arctic Cat and Tracker, it might not make sense to make a big marketing push into that segment, since those companies are doing some marketing.
Then again, I think it's just the 450 that those companies are carrying from the KYMCO line, and they obviously have the 700 UTV and a whole lineup of ATVs. So, maybe it is. Like CROSSBOLT said, the folks down at HQ should just ask us what to do. Wouldn't that be fun? LOL.
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A couple years back my grandson and his 4H group put on a farm days show for the public. All types of farm equipment on display and a local dealer put a Yamaha atv and a Polaris Ranger so my grandson took my Kymco 450i to display. The Kymco recieved far more attention than any of the other offroad machines. People were interested because they never heard/saw then before!! The offroad market is booming right now, it would be a great opportunity to get there name out there!!
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Probably a poor time to take over with the stock market in correction territory. Discretionary spending should be down. I wish him the best of luck but he has a tough road ahead of him.
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One current problem with 2 wheel market in us----riders/buyers do not ride enough or at all. There is some fun in long rides.....but you have to do it.....not trailer it!
There are many reasons why an adult would chose not to take long rides.
Most bike owners have connections and responsibilities to their family, job, bank account - or all the above - which they gladly put first in their lives.
You enjoy long bike rides.
I greatly enjoy a daily ride - and will nearly always be home before brunch.
We each have our priorities, and enjoy our rides.
I am happy to promote the qualities of my scooter, and riding it - but I feel no responsibility for, or expect to change, this country's lack of interest in riding...
Stig
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There are many reasons why an adult would chose not to take long rides.
Most bike owners have connections and responsibilities to their family, job, bank account - or all the above - which they gladly put first in their lives.
You enjoy long bike rides.
I greatly enjoy a daily ride - and will nearly always be home before brunch.
We each have our priorities, and enjoy our rides.
I am happy to promote the qualities of my scooter, and riding it - but I feel no responsibility for, or expect to change, this country's lack of interest in riding...
Stig
No. We don’t have the responsibility to change anything. However, the heads of the various companies do have that responsibility if they want to grow their company, or even simply maintain sales and profitability. I hate seeing companies that make products I like fail. I hate it even more when they don’t even try. Where’s their imagination? I can’t help but think of Lee Iacocca who saved Chrysler from the early 1980s and into 1990s by simply making ONE car and putting different bodies on it. ONE of those bodies was a MINIVAN. He took a low quality box and transformed the industry. He caused America to buy something it didn’t even know it wanted. Not all risks pay off. But some do. I guess you can tell that I believe that there is an untapped market. Sales may never take off like lightening. But I’m sure they can grow their market if they TRY. Forgive my beating this horse over and over. LOL.
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I totally agree that advertising would help out the sales of scooters and motorcycles. I don't know why we can't have the classy advertising which Europe and Asia has.
Saw a very rare motorcycle advertisement today by Honda, of the big Honda Goldwing ...because it was a Honda sponsored golf tournament!
Maybe Hero will run a bunch of TV commercials. Any bike adverts will increase dealer traffic!
Stig
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Can't help believing if people knew:
1) how much fun scooters are
2) how economical they are (compared to cars/trucks)
3) how practical and versatile they are (errands and carrying stuff, ease of parking, short commutes)
they would give them more consideration.
Most of the rest of the world uses scooters more than autos due to financial necessity. Cars are becoming increasingly unaffordable for people in the US, plus we're likely to have oil price spikes and supply shortages this decade. Maybe even this year. We're going to regret not moving towards scooters and away from autos, hope we don't wait till it's too late. That's without even accounting for the environmental benefits, which are substantial.
Remember the run on bicycles during the oil crisis' in the 70s? If I were a scooter dealer, I'd think about building my scooter inventory. Could be in great demand soon, not too mention difficult/impossible to get a few months from now.
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Forbes mentioned Lee Iacocca and saving Chrysler and he is right! Iacocca listened not to the "Well, we always done it this way!" and took drastic measures to do things differently to save EVERYONE'S jobs. This same kind of thinking COULD be used to save this, our dear importer, from extermination. Policies that are similar to competing manufacturers and importers PENALIZES dealers financially. Monkey points out the outrageous cost of 4 wheels these days not to mention the complexity. The new guy at KUS does not stand a chance UNLESS he is more like Iacocca and not like his predecessors.
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The one thing that made me appreciate scooters was living in Europe, along with high gas prices. You can go shopping with places to put things, you can park in tight spaces, you can give people rides, you can smell the fresh/smoggy air of Rome....j/k, and they are a pleasure to ride and to enjoy the scenery up close.
Dean
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Then again, I think it's just the 450 that those companies are carrying from the KYMCO line, and they obviously have the 700 UTV and a whole lineup of ATVs. So, maybe it is. Like CROSSBOLT said, the folks down at HQ should just ask us what to do. Wouldn't that be fun? LOL.
the Arctic Cat 700 is also a rebadged Kymco, my brother has one , it's a beast
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The one thing that made me appreciate scooters was living in Europe, along with high gas prices. You can go shopping with places to put things, you can park in tight spaces, you can give people rides, you can smell the fresh/smoggy air of Rome....j/k, and they are a pleasure to ride and to enjoy the scenery up close.
Dean
Same here - the one thing that really made me appreciate scooters was n visit to the city Bologna, Italy a number if years ago. During the visit I immediately noticed how many citizens and young people were riding scooters. Previosly scooters didn’t really impress me, but seeing so many beautiful, tastefully dressed women and young girls riding scooters with very high screens really made an everlasting impression. These women and men were even riding in rainy conditions on their scooters.
I started talking to a young guy about the many scooters in Bologna just when he got off his scooter. He turned out to be a student. I am not sure whether he got his numbers right, but he told me at that stage the number of students in Bologna was about 400 thousand.
So the impression in Italy has changed my mind about scooters completely. Since I bought my Agility I realized I should have bought a scooter many years ago. My scoot is such a pleasure, I can not see myself not riding a scooter in future.
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the Arctic Cat 700 is also a rebadged Kymco, my brother has one , it's a beast
I didn't know that. Well, I guess that's good then. Like I said in a previous post, perhaps the best bet for KYMCO in the U.S. off-road market is to just let Tracker and Arctic Cat handle the marketing while KYMCO builds the machines. Both Tracker and Arctic Cat are established brands (though Tracker is only recently moving from the boating category to off-road) that have some good visibility and track record with consumers. Selfishly, I would like to see the KYMCO name become more recognizable. But maybe we are actually better off the way it is. Let the Tracker and Arctic Cat buyers subsidize those of us who purchase the same machines for far less from a local KYMCO dealer!
P.S. Tell me more about your brother's 700. I never drove a 700 or even saw one outside a showroom. Do you have any experience with the 450 to be able to compare them in terms of power, ridge stability, etc.? Just curious.
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From my talks with two dealers I learned that the reason I was seeing so many left-over scooters when I first shopped scooters in the winter of 2012/2013 was due to the crash of '08.
The scooter market was racing along into 2007 - to the extent that dealers increased their orders of new stock for 2008 and 2009. After the Madoff affair and the market scare --- purchases of unnecessary toys, like scooters (and the values of luxury items like collector cars & art works ) took a real hit.
4 years on I was seeing new '09 scooters and motorcycles on dealership floors in 2013.
I nearly bought a lovely wine colored 2009 125 Yamaha Vino at $2499, instead of my 2013 LIKE200i.
The Vino was aircooled like I wanted, but carbureted - so I went for the larger LIKE with its EFI, twin discs and twin shocks, bigger tail light and 2 yr warranty.
Stig
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One current problem with 2 wheel market in us----riders/buyers do not ride enough or at all. There is some fun in long rides.....but you have to do it.....not trailer it!
I don't have any issues with people trailering their bikes, in some cases it allows you to ride more. I do agree with you that many, maybe most of the scooter riders in this country don't ride much. I have seen several year old scooters with less than 1000 miles on them. Getting out and riding allows others to see scooters and might get them interested. Short rides or long rides doesn't matter. It also helps when you post pictures and ride reports. I have had probably around 10 people, maybe more, that told me that reading my ride reports inspired them to buy a scooter. My long time riding buddy bought a Like 150i a few months ago. A couple of years ago there was no way he would have bought a scooter but he saw how much fun I was having so he bought one.
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the Arctic Cat 700 is also a rebadged Kymco, my brother has one , it's a beast
Actually that is not true. Kymco has never supplied an ATV or SxS over 500 cc to AC (nowTextron).the only SxS from Kymco is the 500 which is the UXV450. The ATV,s from Kymco are the 90, 300 and 570. The latter being a MXU500. Most of the larger ATV and SXS AC’s are actually Textron’s badged as AC. The Wildcats are still the AC design as are a few of the Prowlers. When Textron bought AC the began to kill off the AC off road brand. That didn’t go so well so now they are back peddling and reinvesting in the AC brand.
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Actually that is not true. Kymco has never supplied an ATV or SxS over 500 cc to AC (nowTextron).the only SxS from Kymco is the 500 which is the UXV450. The ATV,s from Kymco are the 90, 300 and 570. The latter being a MXU500. Most of the larger ATV and SXS AC’s are actually Textron’s badged as AC. The Wildcats are still the AC design as are a few of the Prowlers. When Textron bought AC the began to kill off the AC off road brand. That didn’t go so well so now they are back peddling and reinvesting in the AC brand.
fwiw, I am only going by the KYMCO that I have seen imprinted on the engine of my brothers 700cc Arctic Cat UTV
maybe they only supplied engines ?
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I stopped by my local dealer today. I got into discussion (they were not aware of the ne exec) they told me that Kymco ATVs outsell scooters 5:1, and are much more reliable, in the service end, for the Kymco ATVs it's primarily routine service, but some of the Kymco scooters have issues more than routine service
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I stopped by my local dealer today. I got into discussion (they were not aware of the ne exec) they told me that Kymco ATVs outsell scooters 5:1, and are much more reliable, in the service end, for the Kymco ATVs it's primarily routine service, but some of the Kymco scooters have issues more than routine service
That doesn't surprise me at all. I am sure you could dig up the market research somewhere, but I'd be shocked if the ATX/SxS market in the USA isn't at least 5X bigger than the scooter market. I'd guess maybe even 10X or 20X the size, meaning that for every scooter sold in the U.S., there are 10-20 off-road vehicles sold. Anyone else care to guess the relative the size of the markets, or have any data to shed some light on it?
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I wonder if the ratio is different in some areas of the US. My dealer offers Kymco scooters and bikes, but didn't see one Kymco amongst his offroad stuff.
One has to have a place to go offroading - but a scooter can be used anywhere. There are more people in apartments than on farms.
Stig
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I wonder if the ratio is different in some areas of the US. My dealer offers Kymco scooters and bikes, but didn't see one Kymco amongst his offroad stuff.
One has to have a place to go offroading - but a scooter can be used anywhere. There are more people in apartments than on farms.
Stig
Yes, but as you have pointed out numerous times, scooters just don't have a lot of traction among the American consumer. Conversely, you'd be surprised at how many suburban garages have dir bikes, ATVs and SxS machines in them. Just think about the marketing effort Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris and Can-Am put into marketing these off-road machines to the U.S. market each year. Considering there is nothing on the scooter side of things that even remotely approaches that marketing effort, or the variety of product available to the market, I'd have to believe that the off-road market is considerably larger than the scooter market. Again, if you want to talk about POTENTIAL users, I can't argue with you. But I am just thinking in terms of raw numbers of ACTUAL sales annually.
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Here's an article I found online. It's a couple years old, but they are estimating that more than 411,000 SxS machines were sold in the US in 2016. That's A LOT of side by sides!
https://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/utv-market-trending-up/ (https://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/utv-market-trending-up/)
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And here's an article from the LA Times that says annual Side by Side sales may approach 500,000, which surpasses ALL motorcycles combined at about 480,000! Wow. I figured the numbers were high, but I did not realize they were that high. Consider the fact that today EVEN MORE manufacturers are offering side by sides in the US (Kubota, Cub Cadet, Mahindra, Kioti, etc.) and I imagine the SxS continues to be strong or else everyone wouldn't be trying to jump into the market.
https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-side-by-sides-20160524-snap-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-side-by-sides-20160524-snap-story.html)
Here's another article looking at 2018 and 2019 motorcycle and ATV sales. Looks like motorcycle sales in the US are roughly 450,000, while ATVs are roughly 200,000.
So, assuming this data is correct, side by sides and ATVs combined would be roughly 600,000 units a year in the US vs. 450,000 units for motorcycles, which I am assuming includes on-road bikes, scooters and off-road/dual-sport bikes.
https://motorcyclesdata.com/2020/02/02/united-states-motorcycles-market/
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That doesn't surprise me at all. I am sure you could dig up the market research somewhere, but I'd be shocked if the ATX/SxS market in the USA isn't at least 5X bigger than the scooter market. I'd guess maybe even 10X or 20X the size, meaning that for every scooter sold in the U.S., there are 10-20 off-road vehicles sold. Anyone else care to guess the relative the size of the markets, or have any data to shed some light on it?
sounds about right, they are a multi-brand dealer, and by the time you add up all the Polaris RZRs they sell, and how few Yamaha scooters, it probably is 20:1 ohrvs:scooters
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there are several around the country who could actually visit dealers . . . who have problems their techs can't seem to solve
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Kymco could spend every last nickel on marketing but they won't be able to overcome the bad publicity that comes from Kymco owners who are having basic problems with their machines. Amongst my riding friends are several who have had Kymco's, who now loudly say,"NEVER buy a Kymco!" Several members here on this forum have problems starting and/or running their Kymcos. There's plenty of scooter riders around my town still, but they've switched to Yamahas or Vespas. The reason? They can get help with their stubborn-ass fuel injected engines. There's a Kymco dealer in the next city that is STILL trying to unload new 2013 and 2014 Kymcos! The reason they're still unsold is nobody wants to get stuck with a machine that can't be serviced or repaired. My feeling is that Kymco is totally dead in the marketplace until they can provide the world with computer-based diagnostics that owners and repair shops can use to service all those back-firing and mis-firing Kymcos that we're stuck with.
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Reply to Kymcos that don't run-----were/are all new? Or are they old used and probably not taken care of.
I find, with my 2019 XTown 300i, to be very reliable, 9,000 miles now----it is my 11th new maxi scooter since 1990 and over 400,000 miles with them. Price on the Kymco was right, too. Dealer 35 miles away.
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I must agree with John and Stig about reliability. We have had great consistent reliability out of all our fuel injected Kymco scooters and side-by-side (with qualification on the sxs). There have been drawbacks such as vacuum vent valves and marginal batteries but those were solved. I will have to agree in part with JJJoe about the warranty issue with most dealers. That is, what good is a two year warranty if the dealer does not want to mess with it? Hopefully, the FNG at Kymco USA will deal with this. Dennis McNeal is the New Guy and brings motorcycle experience with him. It will take more than experience to fix this. It will take a fresh approach that is unique.
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Yep,
Regarding JJ & his "loud" Kymco hating gang -- He & they've all been at it for some time.
Nothing is going to change there. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Anyway, the coffee is ready - and my oil has finished draining from the LIKE - time to clean the screen.
Stig
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my Kymcos have been a lot more reliable than my Suzukis
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I haven't had Kymco's long term. Most of mine have been bought that have sat for years and low mileage. I would expect the issues I have encountered regardless of brand. I have predominantly bought Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki and BMW motorcycles. Kymco was my introduction into the scooter world to see if I enjoyed riding them without a large outlay of cash. When I go to the motorcycle dealer's service department I see all makes in there.
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my Kymcos have been a lot more reliable than my Suzukis
Oooh, I would LOVE to hear some of THOSE stories! No, REALLY!
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Oooh, I would LOVE to hear some of THOSE stories! No, REALLY!
the only reason I haven't tossed my '07 V-strom 1000 in the dumpster is cause of the unique relationship I have with the dealer, I get a 15% discount on everything, and 30day terms, but most of all, the owner of the dealership is one of my clients, and is open to barter
probably the worse thing I had to get fixed was the wire harness, it got cancer, turned green inside, I was not willing to experiment with a used harness, couldn't find one that hadn't been compromised somehow, Iv'e replaced the fuel pump a couple times, the stator 4 times
the nice thing about barter, my charge rates for myself and my surveying crews is nearly double per man hour of what their mechanic labor rates are, and I use a 6:1 multiplier rates to cost ratio
I actually purchased both my Kymcos (UXV450i & K-Pipe) by barter
I can't complain about the dealer, they have gone to bat for me with Suzuki NA
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I would quite disagree with JJJ about his Kymco assessment. I have lived in Europe(Italy) for 8 years where scooters are extremely abundant and used for daily use by many people. There are a lot of Kymco bikes in Rome and according to my scooter mechanic at the Porta Portese in Rome, they are one of the most problem free scooters. He told me to only buy a Kymco or Honda due to their reliability. These bike mechanics in this area are the best in the city and they know their stuff. He said of the Kymcos especially that they can take a beating and still keep on running. Vespas are crap for the most part and you are paying for the name. The other Piaggio models like the Liberty and Beverly sell well and have decent reliability. The Yamaha scooters were also popular and seemed to sell well. I hated my Aprilia and Gilera because of all the mechanical problems that I had with them. JJJ your friends really do not know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to the reliability of Kymco scooters. Yes we all can have a problem here of there, but I have owned a 300 GTI and now a 400i Xciting and not have had really any problems. The only thing that I can complain about is that the battery in my Xciting 400i has a hard time turning over when the weather drops below 35 deg F. But that is an easy fix.
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The Italians do love a Kymco.
In the UK, one of our biggest brands is called "Lexmoto" - that suffers from a questionable dealer network, but the bikes are actually pretty good... but lots of people making lots of noise always dents a reputation.
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I would quite disagree with JJJ about his Kymco assessment. I have lived in Europe(Italy) for 8 years where scooters are extremely abundant and used for daily use by many people. There are a lot of Kymco bikes in Rome and according to my scooter mechanic at the Porta Portese in Rome, they are one of the most problem free scooters.............
Right or wrong - my take on this is that most problems on Kymco scooters (and probably all brands of scooters in the US) are caused by cold weather conditions during winters when the scooters are not used at all. Our local fuel does not get mixed with ethanol - but having read about ethanol’s properties I am quite convinced that ethanol is part and parcel of most scooter problems in the US - including Kymco problems.
It is no secret that even pure gasoline gets stale in fuel systems, and clogs up carburetors, fuel injectors, and fuel systems on any engine If the engine does not get used for a couple of months. A mixture of ethanol and gasoline in such conditions is a sure recipe for problems.
Adding to this - cold winters also takes it’s toll on batteries, specially when the batteries do not get charged regularly during winters.
Long story - but I think JJJ and his friends would probably have a very different experience if they found themselves in warmer areas during winters, used their scooters 365 days per year, and never used an ethanol / gasoline mixture.
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Right or wrong - my take on this is that most problems on Kymco scooters (and probably all brands of scooters in the US) are caused by cold weather conditions during winters when the scooters are not used at all. Our local fuel does not get mixed with ethanol - but having read about ethanol’s properties I am quite convinced that ethanol is part and parcel of most scooter problems in the US - including Kymco problems.
It is no secret that even pure gasoline gets stale in fuel systems, and clogs up carburetors, fuel injectors, and fuel systems on any engine If the engine does not get used for a couple of months. A mixture of ethanol and gasoline in such conditions is a sure recipe for problems.
Adding to this - cold winters also takes it’s toll on batteries, specially when the batteries do not get charged regularly during winters.
Long story - but I think JJJ and his friends would probably have a very different experience if they found themselves in warmer areas during winters, used their scooters 365 days per year, and never used an ethanol / gasoline mixture.
I would agree with this assessment. I have found that using 0-E fuel and mixing in Seafoam as a gasoline stabilizer has alleviated most of my winter storage problems. I use a battery maintainer as well. At the end of the season I change the oil and gear oil as well as any other maintenance. Spring I check the tires and off I go.
If you have followed my post's you will see most of my Scooters were purchased used that sat for long periods of time with low mileage.
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I would quite disagree with JJJ about his Kymco assessment. I have lived in Europe(Italy) for 8 years where scooters are extremely abundant and used for daily use by many people.
I don't disagree with you, Leo, but you're talking about Europe where there's lots of Kymco dealers. I really like Kymco scooters, and still own a Kiwi 100, but it's a challenge in Canada because there's no Kymco dealers. There's no parts, and there's nobody who can diagnose e-faults. The biggest problem is no parts (not even on-line). If I need a gasket, I have to pay $35 shipping for a $3 gasket from an Italian-only Kymco website in Europe. Sometimes when I open the package, it's the wrong gasket. My buddies who had fuel-injected Kymcos, they really ran into trouble because the fuel-injected engines can't be tuned without a dealer - and there is no more dealers here. So we don't actually HATE Kymco scooters. But unfortunately it sounds like we do. But we actually don't.
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I don't disagree with you, Leo, but you're talking about Europe where there's lots of Kymco dealers. I really like Kymco scooters, and still own a Kiwi 100, but it's a challenge in Canada because there's no Kymco dealers. There's no parts, and there's nobody who can diagnose e-faults. The biggest problem is no parts (not even on-line). If I need a gasket, I have to pay $35 shipping for a $3 gasket from an Italian-only Kymco website in Europe. Sometimes when I open the package, it's the wrong gasket. My buddies who had fuel-injected Kymcos, they really ran into trouble because the fuel-injected engines can't be tuned without a dealer - and there is no more dealers here. So we don't actually HATE Kymco scooters. But unfortunately it sounds like we do. But we actually don't.
Just curious why you can't order parts from the US Kymco dealers? I would understand not having any dealers would make it difficult to own and a feeling of abandonedment from Kymco support. Several Chinese scooters are that way in the US. They can be bought dirt cheap but zero parts and support and people view them as disposable items. I'm fortunate that I live 19 miles from a Kymco dealer. He only carries a few of the small 50cc and 125 model's. Same with the Kymco dealer in Salina 30 miles away just the smaller models. In fact the Salina dealer has a new 2017 125cc advertised for 20% off, under $1800. Hutchinson has a dealer about 30 miles away and he only carries the smaller models as well. The fact the 50cc scooters don't require a motorcycle license is probably why they sell well and they can be bought for about $1800.
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Just curious why you can't order parts from the US Kymco dealers?
The USA dealers don't list many Kymco models (my Kymco Kiwi 100 is one) - They've never even heard of my model. It doesn't appear in their parts catalogs. And they have no idea how to order parts for scooters that aren't listed. Most of this Kymco is the same as a regular Kymco 50cc, except for the massive 100cc engine & transmission.
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Thanks for the clarification. I guess I've never seen a 100cc scooter, 50cc 125cc 150cc 250cc and up yes.