KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => People 150 => Topic started by: Fanny LaFaye on September 19, 2010, 06:22:07 PM
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Hi, everyone! I'm new to the forum, but not new to the People. I've happily spanked over 20k km on my 2007, but recently moved away from the big city and my favorite mechanic. Now I'm on an island.. literally.. I'm going to have to do most of the basic work on the bike myself.
Its just about time for the next oil change and I was wondering what everyone's favorite oil for the People 150 was, whether synthetic is better and why. Looking forward to being a bigger part of my bike's next 20k, would really appreciate some tips from the pros out there! (Especially tips from people who have had to maintain scooters in saltwater air!)
Salud!
FLF
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A synthetic oil, to my understanding, won't break down as quickly as a conventional motor oil. Additionally, while I could be wrong on this, it can also handle high temperatures better than a similarly rated conventional.
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Ohh boy! Here we go! Another post on oil.
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Ohh boy! Here we go! Another post on oil.
If you don't like it, then don't read it, don't post about it. Just leave. We won't miss your smarta$$ comments.
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I use Torco T4 Petroleum Oil and it works just fine. It's the cheapest four stroke i can find and I honestly feel it doesn't make that much of a difference vs semi-syn or full syn oils. But some people will swear by a certain brand or by synthetic. And just because you use synthetic, doesn't mean you should neglect to change the oil at each specified interval.
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If you don't like it, then don't read it, don't post about it. Just leave. We won't miss your smarta$$ comments.
Take your own advice, I figured I would be like others here and just add my 2 cents. Ohh I am sorry are you crossing the border into be an administrator for the site now?
Yeah I may be a smart ass, but at least I am not a jackass nor a dumb-ass such as yourself.
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Take your own advice, I figured I would be like others here and just add my 2 cents. Ohh I am sorry are you crossing the border into be an administrator for the site now?
Yeah I may be a smart ass, but at least I am not a jackass nor a dumb-ass such as yourself.
I'm not going to get into an argument with you. I'm done with you. Goodbye.
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I'm about as far from being a mechanic as you can get, but I agree with the statement that you shouldn't leave the oil in longer with synthetic. My reasoning (which may not be correct) is that without a filter, contaminants in the oil are more likely to cause trouble.
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I'm about as far from being a mechanic as you can get, but I agree with the statement that you shouldn't leave the oil in longer with synthetic. My reasoning (which may not be correct) is that without a filter, contaminants in the oil are more likely to cause trouble.
I would agree with this statement to an extend
a) depending on how often to change your oil, 500, 1K, 1.5K, etc.
b) On the conditions you ride in, rainy weather, gravel roads, high construction areas, dust, etc.
c) how hard you ride, drive like a wimp never see over 25mph or do you run wide open all the time?
d) weight, hills, temperature
All these factors play into how often you should change oil.
Synthetics do have a higher tolerence to break down over conventional non synthetic oils.
Oops also with fuels that have ethanol added to them I believe this tends to wash past the rings and contaminate oil a little more then fuels that dont have ethanol.
So, really there is no correct answer on how often you should change your oil.
Go by smell, and color of the oil and your budget!
Changing oil is like taking a shower, you can never do it to often but there comes a time that you can be OCD
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Environmentally, I would say there is a point that you're changing your oil too often. Cars are able to go 5,000 miles between changes; KYMCO recommends 1,200 unless there's a lot of short trips or operation in cold weather. Unfortunately, there's no guidelines as to maintenance in these "severe conditions."
I have to say that this is the shortest recommended oil change interval I've ever come across. The oil isn't used for the transmission, the engine (AFAIK) is fairly low revving, so I have to wonder if this is due to the lack of an oil filter.
IIRC, synthetic oil is also better at suspending contaminants than conventional.
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I would agree with this statement to an extend
a) depending on how often to change your oil, 500, 1K, 1.5K, etc.
b) On the conditions you ride in, rainy weather, gravel roads, high construction areas, dust, etc.
c) how hard you ride, drive like a wimp never see over 25mph or do you run wide open all the time?
d) weight, hills, temperature
All these factors play into how often you should change oil.
Synthetics do have a higher tolerence to break down over conventional non synthetic oils.
Oops also with fuels that have ethanol added to them I believe this tends to wash past the rings and contaminate oil a little more then fuels that dont have ethanol.
So, really there is no correct answer on how often you should change your oil.
Go by smell, and color of the oil and your budget!
Changing oil is like taking a shower, you can never do it to often but there comes a time that you can be OCD
Riding in rainy weather, gravel roads and dust affect your air filter, not the oil in your engine.
Found two different users manuals For my Agility City 125 ( I think it's basically the same engine as in People 150) with two different oil change intervals - 2000km & 3000km (1200mi & 1800mi).
I do most of the servicing myself, so I opted for the longer change interval. I use Motul 5100 15w50 semi-sythetic oil. Full synthetic oil is better, but with these frequent change intervals and low revving engines it's a waste of money.
So far no problems in 10000km.
Change your oil at the specified intervals, and check the llevel once in a while.
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What evidence do you have to say that synthetic oils suspend contaminents more than conventional oil ? Convenional oil creates more contaminents due to the lower oxidation tempreture , and they tend to settle and create sludgeing , is that what you are refering to ?
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What evidence do you have to say that synthetic oils suspend contaminents more than conventional oil?
None. I recalled having read it. However, that was long enough ago that I couldn't tell you where I heard it from or even if I'm recalling it correctly.
With the confidence that comes from ignorance, it would seem to make sense that purpose-built molecules could do a better job. But again, this is the viewpoint that comes to me unburdened by any actual chemical engineering knowledge. :)
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Riding in rainy weather, gravel roads and dust affect your air filter, not the oil in your engine.
Your air filter does not filter the air 100% Unless you are using a breathing respirator as an air filter.
Yes driving on dusty, dirt roads is considered harsh conditions to motor oil and should be taken in account when changing your oil.
Google it, dusty dirt oil change, many articles to educate you on it.
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Do you really think the particles that do pass by the air filter can contaminate your oil that much in 1200-1800 miles that it could cause severe damage to the engine???
Change you air filter and oil as stated in the service manual, and you won't have any problems. If you do wanna change your oil at 600mi or less because you rode a few times in the rain or rode on some dusty roads-go ahead, it your time and money.
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Do you really think the particles that do pass by the air filter can contaminate your oil that much in 1200-1800 miles that it could cause severe damage to the engine???
Change you air filter and oil as stated in the service manual, and you won't have any problems. If you do wanna change your oil at 600mi or less because you rode a few times in the rain or rode on some dusty roads-go ahead, it your time and money.
Yes, dirt in micro sizes will cause engine wear and cause premature wear on internal components.
There is not a set mileage you should change your oil, the manual will state a mileage and this is in average driving conditions. That is why I stated you need to check your oil, color and smell then make your decision and that depends on your budget. Even more so with a small engine such as a GY6 that doesn't use a paper oil filter to catch micro size dirt. a few bucks for a good quality qaurt of oil is cheap engine insurance IMO.
Do you really think the particles that do pass by the air filter can contaminate your oil that much in 1200-1800 miles that it could cause severe damage to the engine???
1200-1800 miles equals to a lot of RPM's. Lets say an average RPM of 6500 RPMS. 30MPH average speed. 30/1800= 60
60 hours of runtime
6500RPM X 3600 = 23,400,000 rotations of the crank X for each piston stroke up and down x2= 46,800,000 times.
Thats an average of 468,000,00 times your piston travels now add some small particles of dirt grinding on the cylinder walls where the rings seal?
I never stated cause severe damage immediately, premature wear is the key here.
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That is why I stated you need to check your oil, color and smell then make your decision and that depends on your budget. Even more so with a small engine such as a GY6 that doesn't use a paper oil filter to catch micro size dirt. a few bucks for a good quality qaurt of oil is cheap engine insurance IMO.
..i change my oil at about 1/2-2/3 the recommended, service manual intervals...
..'08 agility 50 with 54,000 kms...RIP...
..always have, and EVERY TIME it has been changed..it NEEDED to be changed...
..i have found that a full synthetic oil holds up MUCH better that dino-based oil...
peace
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If I could just find a narrow-enough drain pan to fit between the centerstand and the rear tire, I'd be all set. :)
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These things work great . I love mine : LiquiVac Oil Change System
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Thanks for the tip. I ordered a MityVac. If it'll keep me and my tools clean, it's money well spent.
Any thoughts on how often (in terms of mileage) I should clean the screen that passes as an oil filter?
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Thanks for the tip. I ordered a MityVac. If it'll keep me and my tools clean, it's money well spent.
Any thoughts on how often (in terms of mileage) I should clean the screen that passes as an oil filter?
Are you vacuuming the oil from the engine and refilling it?
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Are you vacuuming the oil from the engine and refilling it?
I changed the oil fairly recently and the pump hasn't arrived yet but that's the plan!
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I changed the oil fairly recently and the pump hasn't arrived yet but that's the plan!
Are you planning on dropping the oil plug at the bottom of the engine to get the rest of the oil out? Most of any debri in the oil settles to the bottom of the engine and I dont see how using a vacuum could perform an oil change successfully.
If you are going to drop the plug to clean the screen and remove the excess at the bottom what is the point of using the vacuum? I am curious why people use a vacuum to change oil.
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I am curious why people use a vacuum to change oil.
..me too...i want to remove the bottom dwellers when i change my oil...
..actually intrigued by my new-found left-hand side drain plug too....
:o
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I am curious why people use a vacuum to change oil.
..me too...i want to remove the bottom dwellers when i change my oil...
Agree,, if your not removing the oil drain plug to remove the oil and clean the filter screen its like taking a shower with your clothes on.
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its like taking a shower with your clothes on.
..i once knew a girl who LIKED to do that..
..freaky, in a good kinda way....
8)
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The first time I used my liquivac I followed the directions , started and warmed the engine and vacumed the oil . Then I pulled the oil plug to see what was missed . Nothing came out , nada , zero , zilch , not a freaking drop . Thereafter it took less than 2 min. to change my oil . No mess , no clean up and the liquivac is its own container to take the old oil for recycle . Now for you guys that like to get greasy fine , but if you are not so inclined this is a very effective way to service your own scoot .
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I'm using the vacuum to keep the process neat. The biggest issue I have with oil changes is the mess with drain pans, tools, oil that invariably gets on the garage floor, and so forth.
I'll be far more likely to do frequent oil changes if it's a clean, turn-key process. YMMV.
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..i don't generally make a mess...did the first time, but i learned how not to after that...
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So you've been housebroken?
I just spread some newspaper under the area just to be sure.
Good thing we get the local paper free once a week.
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..that rolled-up paper smacked on th face works well...
..kinda hard to explain to the guys at work about the swollen nose tho..
:-\
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Next time I change oil I'm gonna open up that second drain bolt.
Never opened that before!
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Next time I change oil I'm gonna open up that second drain bolt
...yup....
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2nd drain bolt?
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Yep,
A few of us were shocked to find out that the Agility 50 (maybe 125 as well??) have a second oil drain bolt on the underside of the oil pan.
The thread was under the technical section on seafoam (page 5 I believe).
Never opened it up, but will do it next time.
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There are no two drain bolts.
The first bolt is the drain bolt, close to the side of the engine.
The second bolt is wire mesh oil filter bolt, not used to drain the oil.
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I just bought a People 150, but won't get to ride it until Feb. My take on air cooled scooters is, after doing a very early oil change during the break in, and then again at the suggested first service interval (usually 300-500 miles on most motorcycles and scooters), I then settle down to oil changes every 1000 miles. A scooter, though, shouldn't be as hard on oil as most motorcycles, as they use the same oil as lube in the clutch and transmissions (except Harley-Davidsons, Royal Enfields, and other older motorcycles). But many scooters, especially like the little Ruckus's and Metros (like we have owned)spend most of their time running with the throttle pegged to the stop.These little scooters usually hold less than a quart.So I changed at 1000 miles as cheap insurance.
My new 150 may not be running full out all the time, but still will be turning pretty high revs.And the average temperature will be in the eighties all year round. But I'll see how dirty the oil looks at this interval.
jon
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A scooter, though, shouldn't be as hard on oil as most motorcycles, as they use the same oil as lube in the clutch and transmissions (except Harley-Davidsons, Royal Enfields, and other older motorcycles).
Very wrong. Small 4T scoots have 0.8-0.9 dl of oil in the engine while bikes have 3-4 l.
Oil in small air cooled scoots is under a lot of strain.
It does not take a chemist to realize that. I have 125 cc air cooled and 250 cc water cooled scoot.
In the air cooled scoot, oil is completely black due to deposits after few hundred kms.
In the air cooled, it is still yellow when I replace it.
The fact that big bikes have "shared" oil with transmission is not that a problem. Transmission does not contribute significantly to change in the chemical composition of the oil (does not generate as much heat, shear or anything else compared to engine assembly).
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I'm with you totally on oil changes especially on the smaller 50cc scooters that run around with the throttles wide open all the time. But I have read that, on motorcycles that use the same engine oil in the trans, that oil break down due to the trans gears squeezing and "shearing" the oil is a factor.And that it may tend to lower the oil viscosity over time.The other thing is that most motorcycles (especially the Japanese bikes) also use the engine oil to lube and cool the clutch disks.The oil can get some contamination from disk materials.Scooters with CVT transmissions run all the componts dry.
Like I said, I'll figure on oil changes at 1000 miles when my break in is over. Harley-Davidson suggests engine oil changes at 5000 mile intervals.But they use a second oil for the primary drive and clutch, and yet a third for the trans.5000 seems too long to me and I do my Sportster at 2500 mile intervals.
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Valvoline synthetic - cheap $6 and available at local auto supply. Can't tell on my P150, but my Harley with oil sump temp gauge runs about 10degF cooler on synthetic. So figure lower temp has gotta be good.