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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: DanH on September 02, 2019, 01:44:01 PM
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I just learned that the little rubber hairs on my tires are called "chicken strips." It's a metaphor. See the photo. The concept is that the rider is too "chicken" to lean enough into turns to wear off the strips. As a beginner, I wear mine proudly.
But next time I pass a seedy, roadside biker bar, I'm going to dismount my scooter and inspect the front tires of those big bikes.
The question is: If I leave that biker bar at 12:00 PM at 45 miles per hour ... with a five minute head start ... how long will it take them to catch me?
;)
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Depends. Is that 12:00PM midnight or 12:00PM noon?
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As you ride and the tire wears, you will notice the area between where the rubber is worn from the center to the outside edge of the tire. The "strip"from the worn and well used part of the tire to the unworn part toward the edge is the "chicken strip". So the riders that push the turns and lean into it will wear further to the outside edge of the tire. His chicken strip will be narrower than the rider who is timid on the turns.
I think it is a squid/testosterone thing for a guy to check his buddy's tire to see how wide his chicken strip is - scooterists generally don't concern themselves with that - as we already know we are manly enough :D
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Back in my sport bike days I was much more into checking chicken strips. Occasionally I will still check out the chicken strips on sportbikes.
As for chicken strips on scooters. Very few scooters have enough cornering clearance to get rid of their chicken strips. You will start to scrape hard parts before you use all of the tread on the tire. If you live someplace with mostly straight roads you will tend to have much larger chicken strips than someone who lives near twisty mountain roads.
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I just love the sound of scooter talk in the morning!
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Since we were on the topic, I went and checked out my chicken strips. My Like has 1/4 " chicken strips front and rear. My recent trip to the mountains is probably responsible for that.
So what do chicken strips really mean?
First, the exact width of the chicken strips is meaningless. Different tires have different profiles. The same lean angle will produce different size chicken strips on different tires.
But, extremely wide chicken strips tell me that the rider of that bike is probably not very skilled at taking curves. This is not something I would be proud of. The ability to take curves is an important skill that can prevent an accident or even save your life.
I wouldn't worry about whether you 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch vs no chicken strips. Depending on your bike and tires it may not be possible to totally get rid of your chicken strips.
If on the other hand you have 2 inch chicken strips that means you are barely leaning your scooter when turning and that is more an indication of lack of riding skill than lack of bravery. Many riders crash because they go into a curve at what they think is too fast of a speed and end up crashing when all they had to do was lean the bike a little more to make the curve.
What about avoiding an unsafe situation? Sometimes the best thing to do is brake but sometimes swerving is a better option. To swerve hard you have to be willing to lean the bike. If you haven't been practicing it you probably won't be able to do it in an emergency.
So how far should you lean your bike? That's a hard question to answer. Unlike motorcycles scooters don't have folding footpegs with feelers on the ends to warn you that you are reaching the bikes lean angle limit. I ride curves a bit more cautiously on my scooters than my motorcycles because of this. The best thing to do is slowly increase the amount you lean your bike until you are comfortable taking curves at a reasonably fast speed. This is much easier to do if you regularly ride curvy roads. If you live somewhere with mostly straight roads then just accept the fact your skills won't be what they would be if you lived somewhere with curvy roads.
Even if you live in Kansas you will still ride 90 degree curves turning from one street to another. If you practically stop when making those turns you are increasing the chance of being rear ended. Even in Kansas the ability to go around corners can be important.
Don't forget the fact that reducing your chicken strips about the most fun thing you can do on your scooter!!!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-PICS/i-qj5Bjcw/1/1393c033/L/P8210147-L.jpg)
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One of the secrets of staying alive on scooters/bikes---Make your tires do as little work as possible---traction of one sort or another is the deal.
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Make your tires do as little work as possible
John, could you elaborate on that? (how to do it)
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Ya know....a fella could get beat up at the Dew Drop Inn tavern talkin' chicken strips ....with his scooter parked out front.
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I'm with John. I stress nothing while riding.
Not an age thing. I've had a good imagination since I first threw a leg over a Honda in 1967.
My style is not for everyone.
Stig
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One of the secrets of staying alive on scooters/bikes---Make your tires do as little work as possible---traction of one sort or another is the deal.
This is the opposite of my riding style. It wouldn't be safe for me.....I'd die of boredom.
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My like 200 came was delivered w/ too much air in the tires. My chicken strips (and now that I know what they are) have less of a chance of surviving now that it's dialed in better; but they put down some type of gravel deal here on some of the roads rather than repaving. Much of it is gone, but not enough to allow me to delete it from my riding awareness. Nice picture.
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Depends on how straight the roads are and if it's sport bikes or cruisers.
...The question is: If I leave that biker bar at 12:00 PM at 45 miles per hour ... with a five minute head start ... how long will it take them to catch me? ;)
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Making tires do as little work as possible-----has worked for me for 64 years and over 1.5 million miles----idea is to keep bike upright as much as possible, forcing tires not to work too hard----which means in many cases slow down. Possible to ride in snow/ice/slippery mud, etc solo and stay upright.
On braking I tend to use as little force as possible....although ABS as eliminated idiot braking to a degree.
"feel" part of successfull everyday 2 wheeling---some people never get it. Dirt bikes good place to practice traction skills and feel.
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When riding on wet or slippery surfaces I try to ride smoothly and make the tires work as little as possible. On dry surfaces I ride my scooters like I rode my sport bikes. I corner hard and occasionally brake hard. The ability to lean over in a curve is one of the things that makes two wheels so much fun for me. The twistier the road the better. When I am taking it easy I tend to lose focus and that's when I am most likely to make mistakes.
Dirt bikes are a great way to practice traction skills and feel. I ride my scooters in the dirt as well but not as fast as a dirt or dual sport bike.
Riding a scooter with street tires in the mud can be tricky but....
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-PICS/i-vCfc994/1/b478e864/L/P1260009-L.jpg)
At least riding in mud makes gravel seem easy.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-PICS/i-X7J5BGF/1/70a9f7e6/L/DSC03452-L.jpg)
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Watched a big bike following a Honda Forza 300 at "sporty" speed through lovely UK countryside.
All was well for miles until ONE bend had gravel.....
Do not agree that scooter, or bike, will let you know permissable lean angles. Road surface will.
If you've reconned the route that day by car, or slow speeds on bike, then there's a good chance nothing is waiting to take you down in a corner.
Visit your local facility for Track Day on a closed circuit if you want to see what'll scrape on your bike.
I've read that most scooter and motorcycle crashes are "single vehicle" events. Just the rider and his bike.
Stig
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Watched a big bike following a Honda Forza 300 at "sporty" speed through lovely UK countryside.
All was well for miles until ONE bend had gravel.....
Do not agree that scooter, or bike, will let you know permissable lean angles. Road surface will.
If you've reconned the route that day by car, or slow speeds on bike, then there's a good chance nothing is waiting to take you down in a corner.
Visit your local facility for Track Day on a closed circuit if you want to see what'll scrape on your bike.
I've read that most scooter and motorcycle crashes are "single vehicle" events. Just the rider and his bike.
Stig
I rode a bunch of curvy roads yesterday. A number of the curves had gravel in them. I didn't crash. With enough experience you can get a pretty good feel for which curves might have gravel on them. I was not caught by surprise by gravel in any curves. On top of that I keep my eyes open. When I see gravel in a curve I take the curve a bit slower. Most of the time you can pick a line that avoids the gravel. Typically gravel tends to be between tracks made by car tires.
The roads around me tend to be "dirtier" than the roads up in W. NC, N. GA, and far E TN so I ride accordingly.
Another thing. Some roads just have better traction than others. The roads in Ohio for example just aren't as grippy as many of the roads in the SE. It has something to do with what the road is paved with. Reading the road surface is another thing that comes with experience.
I have scraped stuff in curves on almost every bike I have owned. I am slowing down a bit as I get older but I doubt that the sport bike rider in me will ever completely disappear.
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Watched a big bike following a Honda Forza 300 at "sporty" speed through lovely UK countryside.
All was well for miles until ONE bend had gravel.....
Do not agree that scooter, or bike, will let you know permissable lean angles. Road surface will.
If you've reconned the route that day by car, or slow speeds on bike, then there's a good chance nothing is waiting to take you down in a corner.
Visit your local facility for Track Day on a closed circuit if you want to see what'll scrape on your bike.
I've read that most scooter and motorcycle crashes are "single vehicle" events. Just the rider and his bike.
Stig
Sound advice there Stig, but most of us will push it in the twisties because that's where the sheer enjoyment in motorcycling is to be found! I know this is a trade off between forward vision (always look as far into the bend as you can searching out the vanishing point and watching for changes to surface, potholes, overbanding etc.), positioning to gain best line of sight, speed and the right gear should anything go wrong. In the past when teaching advanced riding techniques, I always used to tell folks that a rider's best attribute is their imagination. Just think, what could conceivably go wrong here and then plan for it!
Keep it shiny side up!
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Sound advice there Stig, but most of us will push it in the twisties because that's where the sheer enjoyment in motorcycling is to be found! I know this is a trade off between forward vision (always look as far into the bend as you can searching out the vanishing point and watching for changes to surface, potholes, overbanding etc.), positioning to gain best line of sight, speed and the right gear should anything go wrong. In the past when teaching advanced riding techniques, I always used to tell folks that a rider's best attribute is their imagination. Just think, what could conceivably go wrong here and then plan for it!
Keep it shiny side up!
You are THE first person I've ever heard use my expression. ..."imagination"... when it comes to road use. Especially two wheel riding.
Absolutely. ...."if I speed 20mph over the speed limit on this city street packed with parked cars..
what could happen? "
I've so often wished those kids, blasting through the gears hunched over that sport bike on that busy street, would use a little imagination!
I posted here, somewhere, that I've had a good imagination since I first threw a leg over a Honda in 1967 in Los Angeles.
Stig
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OK - my conscience is bothering me here -
So, I did not start riding with imagination THE first time on a Honda - but by-dam I sure did - after Bill and I went a little wide that afternoon in the San Gabriel mountains - and went over the cliff side *- painting the valley, the bike and ourselves with the three 1 gal cans of cheap house paint we were carrying. You ever have to ride your buddy to the ER on a motorcycle with bare feet?! Shoes went who knows where - he had one remaining, but it was the right foot and too small.
But....after that! - the imagination thing kicked in 100%
Stig
* oncoming car on our side of the road - and we were a little too close to the center as well.
PS: My daughter asked: "why a detour through the mountains carrying 3 cans of paint?"
Sun was out & it seemed like a good idea at the time..?
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I use the term observational deduction, but I’d say it’s the same thing as imagination. When I’m riding and I come upon a situation, like a professional yard crewing cutting a lawn and landscaping off to the side of the road, I try to deduce what kind of potential problem I could run into. For example, grass clippings on the road, gas or oil spills, or if I’m banking a curve, or passing a large cargo truck will there be a tractor in the road, or will it be making a U-turn from road and back to lawn all the while clueless that I’m coming around the curve.
I think these kind of scenario Algorithms is what may make riders have sharper brains than most drivers.
I tend look at a rider’s/driver’s use of their brakes as an indication of their skills, or operating comfort. On curves, riding down hill, or taking corners how much, or how heavily they apply their brakes tends to tell me if they’re comfortable with the natural momentum of their vehicle/bike, or they may not realize that rolling off the throttle or easing off the accelerator can do the same as applying the brakes if they need a reduction in speed. In some situations this isn’t possible if you’re in heavy traffic and you want the vehicle behind you to know you’re slowing down to avoid being rear-ended. But a heavy use of the brakes (indicated by the sight of their brake lights) tends to tell me of their driving skill level.
- Wolf
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Wolf, I agree 100% with your comments regarding brakes. It tells you so much about the skill and experience levels of riders.
Over here in the UK Police motorcyclists will often offer observed ride outs to riders as part of an organised effort to reduce biking casualties. Always worth subscribing as the skills they pass on can literally be life-saving! One such day (decades ago) first introduced me to the importance of correct road positioning and probably helped me avoid a painful self-learned lesson down the road.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I am the original poster for this thread and a recent graduate of California's Motorcycle Safety Program (CMSP). I must admit that most of the points brought up in this thread were discussed in class and on the range, so you guys are like instructors, but with better stories and stronger opinions. By the way, in CA, 29% of motorcycle accidents are single-rider and occur during turning. As most of you can attest, most occur at intersections.
Yet, for other new riders like me, when it comes to "chicken strips," I am going to ignore them put my safety ahead of my tire wear (read pride).
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Quite right too Dan! As you gain in experience I'd be amazed if they don't narrow anyway :)
I forget the exact figures for the UK, but here a large minority of motorcycle "offs" are single vehicle, as you say, either junctions (intersections) or bends (curves) for the latter, often where the skill / ability to lean further would have got the rider safely round the bend. As ever it's a case of ride your own ride and ride within your limits.
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If I had to give one piece of advice to a new rider it would be this. Don't ever stop learning or trying to improve your riding skills. I've been riding for 39 years and I have never stopped trying to improve my skills.
I'm often amazed by people who have told me that they have been riding XX years but it's obvious that they can't ride for sh**. Don't be that guy. Everyone starts out with no experience. Not everyone becomes a competent rider. Taking the MSF is a good start. Remember, it's just a start.
Oh yeah, don't forget to have fun!
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One of the ideas hammered in my thick skull during civilian flight training was "plan ahead" of the situation and the machine. This philosophy applies to a lot of things like anything that moves and you are the contoller. My biggest problem was planning for unseen and unpredictable conditions like changes in wind direction and speed. This was an extremely valuable concept and skill and it, too, applies to any machine you are controlling. Some folks "get" it right away and some have to work at it. Developed as a good skill, it remains to save you grief!
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If I had to give one piece of advice to a new rider it would be this. Don't ever stop learning or trying to improve your riding skills. I've been riding for 39 years and I have never stopped trying to improve my skills.
I'm often amazed by people who have told me that they have been riding XX years but it's obvious that they can't ride for sh**. Don't be that guy. Everyone starts out with no experience. Not everyone becomes a competent rider. Taking the MSF is a good start. Remember, it's just a start.
Oh yeah, don't forget to have fun!
Totally agree. It's a wasted day when you don't learn anything. My total is now 51 years riding bikes of all sizes and scooters which has given me unparalleled enjoyment laced with the odd bit of pain, but the one thing you never do is stop learning. Enjoy the ride!
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This is the same tire after about 12 total hours on the range at Safety training.
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And this is a GSP recording of my scooter on the range for about one hour of exercises.
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And for the record ... another member (dan v) provided the real definition of "chicken strip" in one of the responses above. My original post was inaccurate, I'm not sure what to call the little rubber hairs that stick out from our new tires ... maybe "chicken legs?"
As you ride and the tire wears, you will notice the area between where the rubber is worn from the center to the outside edge of the tire. The "strip"from the worn and well used part of the tire to the unworn part toward the edge is the "chicken strip".
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They're referred to by the more prosaic, but almost as colorful, name "Vent Spews"
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/why-do-new-tires-have-rubber-hair-on-them (https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/why-do-new-tires-have-rubber-hair-on-them)
Don't worry about chicken strip width...Those tend to narrow over time as you get used to what the bike will do, & you become more confident in your skills.
Much better to have a wide strip & to be alive, uninjured and riding than a narrow strip on your wreck.
...I'm not sure what to call the little rubber hairs that stick out from our new tires ... maybe "chicken legs?"
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What hairs! ;D
My Kenda's after 130 miles. Still breaking in the engine, but know some nice, dry, grippy bends near me ;)
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...and the front
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... but most of us will push it in the twisties because that's where the sheer enjoyment in motorcycling is to be found ...
Judging from the photos, you've had some sheer enjoyment lately.
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Getting better! I'm pushing up to 6,000 rpm now (as per Kymco UK advice, i.e. keep below 7.5K) which equates to 60 mph on a dead throttle so am now able to swing it into the twisties at something like optimum speed/lean angle. Really getting to like this XT300, it is promising a great summer next year!
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If I had to give one piece of advice to a new rider it would be this. Don't ever stop learning or trying to improve your riding skills. I've been riding for 39 years and I have never stopped trying to improve my skills.
I'm often amazed by people who have told me that they have been riding XX years but it's obvious that they can't ride for sh**. Don't be that guy. Everyone starts out with no experience. Not everyone becomes a competent rider. Taking the MSF is a good start. Remember, it's just a start.
Oh yeah, don't forget to have fun!
Kinda like the difference between a pilot and an aviator, wouldn't you say?