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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ScooterWolf on September 14, 2010, 05:35:44 PM

Title: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 14, 2010, 05:35:44 PM
California is poised to pass a law aimed at keeping excessively loud motorcycles quieter. Many motorcycle riders are protesting under the adage "Loud pipes save lives!"

Is it true?

Or is this the protest of bad riders?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/08/motorcycle-noise.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/08/motorcycle-noise.html)

-Wolf
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: mrrmutt on September 14, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
I love LOUD pipes, LOVE em. Especially on a 2t Vespa.  But loud pipes dont save lives. Let a Harley pass you , you hear the pipes after they pass not before. And with loud sound systems in cars most people barely hear emergency sirens. Loud colors save lives.
Just my baseless opinion.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 14, 2010, 09:42:56 PM
Loud colors save lives.

..more so than loud pipes for sure...

..need to be seen!!!
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 15, 2010, 12:05:47 AM
I kind of like my hearing, so I've never seen the appeal. I agree. i wear a bright red windbreaker vest.
I'm waiting for a Corazzo jacket that I've ordered to come in from a local scooter shop. It has a vertical
reflective strip and armor on the shoulders and spine.

Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 12:07:50 AM
Loud colors save lives.

So we're back to the hot pink sweater thing again?
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 12:09:31 AM
..just HAD to go there didn y'......
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 12:10:54 AM
I feel so ashamed....
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 15, 2010, 12:33:39 AM
I have no problem when my wife wears one. Yummy! My scooter's all black. So is my helmet. I need some kind of color on me, but hot pink's not my choice.

Hey, has anyone seen these jackets before?

http://www.corazzo.net/mens-jackets (http://www.corazzo.net/mens-jackets)

-Wolf

Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 12:35:51 AM
...coooooll...ScooterWolf..

..i like the "Bomber"...

..i got long arms...lol..
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 12:37:40 AM
thank you oswaldters, u saved me the trouble, lol
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 12:39:22 AM
As long as Word doesn't report me to the moderator...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 12:41:23 AM
See...I clicked the women's jackets and the first one was pink.  ;)

Maybe it means guys get noticed more than girls so they don't need it???

Those are nice jackets, though.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 12:42:40 AM
..what happens in th forum...stays in th forum...

 ;)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 12:44:40 AM
I clicked the women's jackets and the first one was pink

..here y go os........
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 12:49:01 AM
...and the first one was pink

What are the odds of that?  Make you wonder...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 15, 2010, 12:57:38 AM
Mmmm ... pink. Pair that jacket with a pink Buddy scooter and you're set.

Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 01:02:17 AM
To digress back to the original question in this topic, I wonder if the loud pipes do serve as a safety issue?

Given the volume at which people listen to their car stereos and all the driving distracted stuff (talking on the phone, texting, eating), I wonder how many people behind the wheel ever really hear those loud pipes!
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 01:11:49 AM
I think they do, but too late. I have read about loud horns for bikes, they sound like a truck horn, when someone does the dreaded, you sound the horn and, thinking there is a truck there, they move out of your way very quickly. Funny that, it has just changed from them putting you in danger, to putting themselves in danger.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 15, 2010, 01:16:12 AM
To digress back to the original question in this topic, I wonder if the loud pipes do serve as a safety issue? Given the volume at which people listen to their car stereos and all the driving distracted stuff (talking on the phone, texting, eating), I wonder how many people behind the wheel ever really hear those loud pipes!
                         even more reason to be LOUD. ;D  i know that i can be heard from a block away for sure, and STEADILY piss ppl off in town, she really echos then... :D ::)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 01:17:17 AM
Soon, it might not be safe to go into town.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 15, 2010, 01:30:53 AM
Is it better to be loud, or to have better riding skills? Could loud pipes just become a crutch to depend on so you don't have to have a strategy to see and be seen?

It seems that loud pipes just annoy people, and give riders a bad reputation. My brother-in law just returned from the Jersey shore where it was Biker's weekend in Wildwood. He said he didn't get a single good nights sleep because of all the loud bikes going by at all hours.

-Wolf
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 01:39:03 AM
Is it better to be loud, or to have better riding skills?


                            >>>SKILLS<<<
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 01:41:57 AM
I dunno, but I do think my horn sounds kind of sissy-ish. I was hoping for a horn that shouts, "HEY YOU!!!", but instead I got one that squeaks like a mouse saying, "I really hope you can see me..."
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 01:44:13 AM
Having been riding a couple of years now, it's hard not to conclude that people in cars are either oblivious or actively trying to kill you.

Like everyone else here, I've experienced times where I've actually made eye contact with the driver and they've still made a left turn right in front of me.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 01:48:10 AM
I dunno, but I do think my horn sounds kind of sissy-ish.

..yeah, i've been wantin' to change out that horn...

..it's kinda like you're wearing a pink sweater when y' sound it....


 :-\
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 01:48:57 AM
either oblivious or actively trying to kill you.

..dang..yup...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 01:55:06 AM
They are oblivious because you are not a threat to them. If you are in a truck or bus, you are a threat to them and they treat you accordingly. There are the genuine times when they dont see you, that is where it is up to us to wear bright clothes and have our headlights on. Loud pipes do get attention, but I dont think from the areas needed for safety.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 01:56:11 AM
..it's kinda like you're wearing a pink sweater when y' sound it....

Nope, not touching that one Word ;D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 01:57:24 AM
..i'm just sayin...

 :o

..rianna brought it up!!!..the sissy thing!!..

 ;D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 02:03:13 AM
Admittedly the horn is seriously lacking in authority.  Doesn't have that gravitas you'd like.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 02:07:04 AM
Alright...THAT settles it! I want me a horn that sounds like I'm I'm wearing a macho black spiked and studded dog collar and got tattoos all over... ;D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 02:07:54 AM
The horn I mentioned, I think it is called ear cannon.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 15, 2010, 02:09:49 AM
I think we all have to accept a level of risk every time we throw our legs over the seat, and take to the road.
When I see someone do something phenomenally stupid - cut in front of you, drive while talking on a cell, or even brag about how well they can hold their liquor and ride, I'm reminded that due to childhood vaccination there are more stupid people present in the world. I mean a lot of them!

The trick is not to be killed, or injured by any of 'em.

When the weather's good, and I feel like riding I have to remember that good weather also brings out the idiots too. I don't want to be too cautions -- hell, I want to ride for S & Gs like anyone else, but I keep that thought in the back of my mind.

I'm still a young driver, so I try to grade myself whenever I complete a long ride. Was I looking far down the road, and searching for hazards? Did I look into the turn? How controlled was my braking? Was I too close to the guy in front of me? Did I check my mirrors when approaching an intersection? The one thing that's saved me the most over these past few weeks is just keeping someone two seconds ahead of me. In a major city like Philadelphia you have no idea how important that is.

I guess now the question is would ticketing loud motorcycles be a step in the right direction, or can something else  be done instead?

-Wolf

Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 02:15:45 AM
The horn I mentioned, I think it is called ear cannon.

ear cannon it is:

http://www.aerostich.com/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 02:18:15 AM
The motor vehicles place could get a simulator machine, like from the military or something, and make every driver sit on the fake motorcycle seat and watch some fool drivers all around them and in their fake mirrors on the screen acting reckless. Then they could have to answer questions and pass the test before they receive a driver's license.

You can Try to educate people all you want, but most folks will never get it, because they have never ridden one and have no clue.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 02:20:38 AM
Whoa...wonder how many decibels that air cannon is.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 02:20:46 AM
..you hold you own life in your hands..

..wowww...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 02:27:05 AM
I believe people should be made to get a bike licence first and be made to ride for 12 months before getting a car licence. Only then will drivers have an appreciation for motorcyclists.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 02:29:21 AM
The horn is 169 db - that's loud.  All the scales I found listing decibels stop at 150 which is equivalent to a heavy metal rock concert.

Seems like a reasonable price for something that has the potential to enhance your safety so much.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 02:31:27 AM
...might want to wire it into it's own circuit tho....

..gotta be a heavy amp draw....
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 02:33:10 AM
That comes back to your skill. No good to use it after being run off, you must see the danger first. But yeah, would love to have one. I didnt get to see the site, how much was it?
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: oswaldters on September 15, 2010, 02:35:23 AM
$37 on that website.  Haven't done a search to see if it is sold for less elsewhere.

Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 02:37:05 AM
..37 us bucks...looks cool as hell!!
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 15, 2010, 02:42:00 AM
i absolutely hate the zx horn. >:(   way sissy.. :D  i try like hell not to use it........ i still shoot the finger on occasion.. :D :D....... ::)   my red lights and my loud ass pipe is about all i have.... :'(  want more of those red lights too. ::)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 02:42:04 AM
WWWOOOWWW! I think it is something like $160 here. I am not sure if that is right, I will try to find thd magazine I saw the ad in.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 02:44:45 AM
WWWOOOWWW! I think it is something like $160 here.

..damn...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 02:55:37 AM
When I did the valves on the Kawasaki last week I looked on line for valve adjusting tools. $35-$40us, for motion pro. They wont send to Australia. To get them locally $130 from one dealer and $140 from another.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: mrrmutt on September 15, 2010, 03:13:12 AM
I just installed truck horns on my People 150.  Not trumpets or anything fancy, just  duel tone truck horns, they sound great and everyone looks surprised that such a big sound comes from a scooter. 20 bucks from Autozone. 
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 15, 2010, 03:17:17 AM
20 bucks from Autozone

..I saw that one!!!!

..so it works well??

..cooool.....
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 03:32:06 AM
That's really cool! I want one. I bet they give you some funny looks, mrmutt. lol

Hey, sid. How much does shipping Really cost, though. Like if someone (a person) sent it to you?
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 15, 2010, 09:15:29 AM
Hi Rianna, I don't know about that because different countries have different prices. For example, I bought a drive belt from an ebay seller in England, it was 4pounds 99, They sent the wrong one so I sent it back and it cost me $18. (which they did reimburse me :))
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Rianna on September 15, 2010, 03:24:06 PM
I suppose that's not bad to ship something that distance, sid, but what a price to ship a lightweight little belt! I was wondering because sometimes I order items from the west coast here and the shipping is often more than the price of the item. It's odd to pay $16 for a $10 item, but I have done it on occasion. Sometimes I see something I want from UK or other places that I can't find here and have to decide against it because of shipping or postage costs or customs fees and the like. I guess the companies know if you need it you will pay that high rate. I do sometimes wonder how much of the money is for actual shipping and how much that company is collecting for the small task of filling out a form to do it.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: art on September 15, 2010, 09:08:52 PM
  Most of the shipping costs are inflated here in the states and in the fine print if listed it's a handling fee that they nail you for. I get alot of my parts from germany and the shipping is usually not more than $18 + a $1 or $2 handling fee. For the most part though the prices are so much better than here in the states that it's worth it to me.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: TechGuy on September 16, 2010, 05:08:58 AM
As to the OP... loud pipes only irritate the people around you and typically show those around that you have something to prove or compensate for.

IMHO...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 16, 2010, 07:04:51 PM
As to the OP... loud pipes only irritate the people around you and typically show those around that you have something to prove or compensate for. IMHO...
                                                OUCH!!....damnitt man....hey i do have something to compensate for.........my sh** is still..to..dam..slow!!.  :D  :D  :D     you do get better performance regardless, and around 2-3 on top end.... i like my shiny, loud pipe. ;D ;)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 16, 2010, 07:39:21 PM
Well saved batman.:)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 16, 2010, 07:53:01 PM
why thanks sid. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 12:08:33 AM
..my scoot is pretty loud for a 4t....

..but itsa unique sound with all those drilled holes and th' K&N...

..I LIKE IT!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: art on September 17, 2010, 12:23:42 AM
  Some noise is good but many go overboard (I'm one  ;) ) But if ya get a chance check out one of those all electric bikes > No sound can be dangeriouse in my opinion. They are spooky quiet!!! I know for a fact being heard can help,not allways but it has saved me a couple times from being merged right into. Weather it''s the pipe , the horn or just yelling through the open passenger window  :o and being seen is also very important! My worst bike accident was caused by a kid makeing a left right in front of me. Thought we had eye contact and how could he miss my headlight and my ridiculous Barney the dino purple atire  :D  nope! Partly my own falt for not being prepared and takeing things for granted. (trust no cager ever))
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
a kid makeing a left right in front of me.

..that's when you're th' most vulnerable...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: art on September 17, 2010, 12:53:32 AM
  Ha! Would of made evil kanievel proud,just missed t-boneing the car and off the road I go.15 foot drop into a freshly plowed farmers field. Actually thought i was gonna save this thing till the supention callapsed a 150' later when i landed  I was running about 65 mph when it happend :o Pure luck Didn't ride the street for many years after that one.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 12:54:44 AM
..wow...reckon i wouldn't have either...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 17, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
Ha! Would of made evil kanievel proud,just missed t-boneing the car and off the road I go.15 foot drop into a freshly plowed farmers field. Actually thought i was gonna save this thing till the supention callapsed a 150' later when  i landed I was running about 65 mph when it happend :o Pure luck Didn't ride the street for many years after that one.
                                 HOLY RIDE FROM HELL BATMAN!!..  :o  :-X    dam man, i believe i would have straight up RETIRED from riding.... i have lost SEVERAL friends, 1 g.friend, sh**s crazy out there..even worse to me being on a scooter instead of a full size.(1reason for the pipe, ;), but it has gotten louder by rejetting, not my doing. ;))...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 01:38:36 AM
...yup..any fuel/air ratio increase will make it a bit louder...
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 17, 2010, 01:49:14 AM
...yup..any fuel/air ratio increase will make it a bit louder...
                            OOPS!!... :o  ::)  ;D  ;)  .....guess that means i may end up being more irritating to ppl when i go thru. :D    at least they can hear me coming on my lil red devil.... 8)  ;)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 01:50:50 AM
..it turns heads...nuff said!!
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: thebatman on September 17, 2010, 02:10:40 AM
as emeral would say:.......BAM!... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: Hoolander2 on September 17, 2010, 02:33:34 AM
On the logic of the point in question, I'd have to say yes, loud pipes do save lives.  I've heard many a loud bike coming up behind, and approaching from all angles. I'm sure it makes drivers aware there's a bike nearby and they look for it.  Some drivers, anyway.  That's got to be a good thing. 

My accident in which I lost my leg happened cause the driver just didn't know I was there. That, and because she was somewhat senile, I think.

That being said, I like a quiet ride.  Tried the straight, loud pipe when I was a teenager trying to be macho and had enough of it after a couple months. 

Now, THAT being said, after a few close calls recently, I'm thinking half seriously about opening up my muffler some just for the awareness factor.     
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: wordslinger on September 17, 2010, 02:38:16 AM
..just go ahead and put th k&n on it it...lol..
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 17, 2010, 02:49:18 AM
Do you think a good strong horn would be as good, maintaining your personal comfort as well?
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: art on September 17, 2010, 03:46:07 AM
 Like I said I've had to yell through there open window to say HAY!!! I'm here  ::) A Loud horn will do also but for me it's also haveing a bike capable of getting out of the way quik also if needed,got to use every thing at hand some days  ;) Thats why i rode the dirt only for a long time. Can't controll what someone on a cellphone is doing or thinking at all  :D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: TechGuy on September 18, 2010, 02:34:25 PM
OK, a louder pipe can make a difference on a 50cc, it DOES makes a PERFORMANCE difference on any two stroke engine.

On a larger 4 stroke, like my P250, it makes a minor performance difference and I hate the sound it makes.  I know what straight pipes sound like on a P250.  I rode almost 800 miles with a broken down pipe.  It was loud as hell.  I had to wear ear plugs to go from here to the mail box.

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/S7EHEyxjjxI/AAAAAAAAEyk/-6f1oxsX2Wo/s1152/IMG_4758-1.JPG)
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 18, 2010, 03:12:32 PM
I wonder if the problem is sound. Irritating people to the point that riders have a bad reputation for being inconsiderate and a pain to have on the road is a big price to pay for what may or may not work for added safety. Instead of higher volume I wonder if it's possible to create just a unique (and lower) sound that signals to cagers, and pedestrians that a cyclist/scooter is approaching.

I'd rather place my faith in my skills, then allow them to wan a little because I'm dependent on loud pipes. People may hear you coming, but can you hear the warning horn of a truck that's come into your path from the left, after rushing a yellow-to-red light?

Having good skills has no public cost.

I think Loud pipes do.

A few weeks ago our neighbors who are moving had an open house. I had parked my scooter on the walk way in front of our home. My wife observed from our kitchen window a woman walk over to the neighbors home, stop, then walk back to her car and leave. She didn't know why she left, but she thought it may have been because she saw my Yager (thinking it was a motorcycle) and decided she didn't want to live next to a 'biker'.

I moved my scooter to the garage after that.

There's no way of knowing why the woman left, but if you play the 'what if' game, you can see how a negative rep assigned to riders can affect other things.

-Wolf
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: sidthesloth on September 18, 2010, 08:34:25 PM
Sorry, but I dont think scooters are that intimidating. Maybe she saw a cat, some people are allergic to them.
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: mrrmutt on September 18, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
Sorry, but I dont think scooters are that intimidating. Maybe she saw a cat, some people are allergic to them.

LOL :D
Title: Re: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?
Post by: ScooterWolf on September 18, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Yeah, I agree, but my Yager scooter's all black. It's a big scooter at 308 lbs. A few people think it's a motorcycle. Who knows why she left, but my wife was wagging her finger at me.

Hey, Sid. I seem to remember you're in Australia. Do you guys have problems with biker gangs down there? There's an article coming out in the Philly Sunday paper about the presence of biker gangs in South New Jersey, and the Jersey Shore.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/102684084.html?cmpid=15585797 (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/102684084.html?cmpid=15585797)

In public they're not really a problem, but some people are intimidated by them. I live near Camden, NJ, which has been elected the most dangerous city in the US for several years running (though not recently). Factor in Camden, bike gangs, and play the 'what if' game and you start to think 'what if ... ' as to why the woman left.