KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Calothrix on July 08, 2008, 01:31:36 AM
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I am particularly interested in the Agility 125, but would like to here about other Kymco Scooters also. Does your scooter run OK on 87 octane gasoline or gasoline with 10% ethanol, or do you find you need to use a mid- or premium grade gasoline? Thanks!
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premuim..I know all the stories about how its a waste of $$$ ..Its like this..... putting an avg of 1.5 gals at each fill ...I can swing the extra 30 cents... I spoil my grandkids...and my scoot gets all the spoilin I can give her..
OlBull
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Let me put it this way. These bikes are covered by a warranty so the manufacturer wants to make sure that you don't have any problems (its in their best interest). I follow the owners manual to the letter with the exception of synthetic oil. The dealer told me that its perfectly alright to burn 89 (midgrade) in it however they are in the business of selling motorcycles. They also told me that the service intervals are excessive and I only have to do about 1/2 the maintenance that they specify. Personally I believe very little of what a salesman tells me and I have followed or exceeded all manufacturer recommendations.
As OlBull said the extra 20 cents (or so) makes it a moot point. The money you save simply wouldn't be worth any kind of risk.
There is a reason for the high octane fuel. These air cooled engines have a pretty high compression ratio and run hot the higher octane fuel helps to prevent detonation. Detonation will cause severe damage to the engine. This occurs when the fuel burns before the piston hits top dead center. It can blow holes in pistons and cause other catastrophic failures. While I'm sure the scooter will run on 89 octane (or even regular) I wouldn't do it for any extended periods and would add octane boost as soon as I possibly could as well as driving 15-20mph to prevent the engine from heating up.
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Howdy
PS250; use regular 87 octane [10% ethanol year round in AZ]. Gets 80+ mpg. Plenty quick, with Dr. Pulley slider/rollers and Leo Vince 4Scoot performance exhaust system. Dealer said to use premium; all the motorcycle and scoot boards say premium only if engine is high compression. After 1000 mi, I went to mid-grade for two tanks, then to regular ever since [now 3500 mi.]. Love it.
Scoot safe and happy,
f
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The US (and Canada?) uses a different octane rating than the rest of the world. Our 87 octane is roughly equivalent to 92 octane in their system. I've used 87 in my P250 for 20,000 km with no ill effects and haven't noticed any difference in performance or mileage with the 10% ethanol that may be in the gas. The signs on the pumps in this area state that it MAY contain 10% ethanol, not that it does.
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Spoke with a service technician at my local Kymco dealership and he said that 87 octane is fine but to stay away from ethanol.
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i run 87 octane here in a people 150. runs fine.
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I have no trouble with 87 or even 85 octane in my GV259. just went over red mountain pass in CO at 11,000 feet with two people and had no problem. Remember that the 91-93 octane recommended in the manual us a European measurement and is equal to our 87 octane. Running a higher octane is just wasting your money. Also in the West most of our gas is 10% ethanol.
Mike
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my Agility 125's owners manual says the compression is 13:1 so I use premium.
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The manual for my 99 People 50 says to use 91 octane. Here premium is 93....close enogh.
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I use 87.
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I use 93 octain, and stay away from ethanol.
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I recently noticed that Shell stations in this area are sporting permanent signs stating that their gas contains no ethanol. Just thought I'd pass it on.
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Well I need to throw in my 2-cents. The difference in cost between regular, mid-grade and premium is not only due to octane related chemicals, but that is the first one I will address. The premium grade fuel actuall burns slower in the cylinder than regular fuel-so it will actually give a little better milage, and power (this may or may not be very noticable). This is more predominate in a fuel injected vechicle, if the system has an oxygen sensor/feed back system. Lets say that you used premium fuel-then switched to regular and noticed for a short time that on light throttle or load you hear that infamos small rattle/pre-ignition noise for a while. The fuel injection management system will retard the timing and richen the mixture to eliminate this condition. ---so fuel milage and power will be less. That is why most fuel injected engines of the same displacement will usually be quicker/faster than a carburated engine. Carburated engines have to be kind-of in the middle so this condition doesn't destroy the engine_ HOWEVER there is a second benefit. The premiun grade fuel usually has slightly better detergent package. I have overhualed enough carburators to tell. Again this is definate plus for the fuel injected systems. It's like this- pay now (at the pump)- or pay later add carb/injector cleaner- or worse. And no I don't work for a petrochemical company. I do , and have worked on too many engines to count for the last 35 years. So I will only use premium or at worst mid-grade.
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Mine is an '07 X500 and she definitely runs better on premium. I tried regular at first, then switched and noticed the difference. Engine is smoother from idle to hiway speed. Acceleration is about the same, or ever so slightly better. Mileage is better from about 5mpg.
Overall, my Puff, named after the magic dragon, runs better, smoother, and happier on premium. Haven't tried mid grade yet. That's U.S. premium. The extra few cents are worth it to make Puff happy doing what she loves to do most, roll down the hiways and byways.
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Why do all the "Old guys" burn premium? Could it be WE know sumthin? Nah, we're just a bunch of old rich goats with bucket loads of money, so we like our gas premium, of coarse!
The absolute truth has already been stated by others, so I shall not be redundant. Buy The best, name brand, premium grade gas available! Period, end of subject!
Last summer I made a game of trying to put a whole $5 bill into my tank. I ONLY BURN NAME BRAND PREMO! I NEVER GOT $5 To FIT, got close, but no cigar! @ almost $ 4.00 a gallon!
A better, and MORE VALID question would be about oil/ oil changes. Always stay with the same manufacture/brand when changing oils! Do NOT MIX BRANDS!!!!!!!!! DO NOT MIX VISCOSTY(ie no mixig 10-40 with 15/40, ect!)
I use ONLY Valvoline Racing oils in ANYTHING! Why? After being a wrench for a while, you get to see the difference these things make INSIDE the engine as far as wear, cleanliness, ect.
I used to be on a crew team for modified race car, we raced on dirt and asphalt. Our engines were put through some rigorous runs, and we tore them down weekly. When we started using the Valvoline racing formula,internal wear dropped dramatically! Made a believer out of me, because I actually saw this happen. No, I don't work for anybody, I'm a bum, a scooter bum, thank you!
In a air cooled engine I run 10/40 for fall through spring. If the weather gets too warm, I'll change out to 20/50. But I never Wander from Valvoline Racing formula ever! It is what will be in my Agility!
What does your dealer use? Um- prolly what ever the local guy sells him CHEAP, because he is after all in business to make the most money he can! 8) Unscrupulous? Nah, just business, wadda ya think yer special? He buy his oils in 55 gallon drums, go look at the brand! Is it a good one? If it is, then no worries.
GOOD GAS & GOOD OIL are the best thing you can do for extending the life of ANY internal combustion engine, how do I Know?
ASE CERTITFACATION #OR5IR7RJ2BIV**/Engine Repair/Engine Builder
Yep, had to have that do-hickey hangin on the wall, to prove I exsisted, or that I knew my pooh, I dont remember which.
Scoot On People!
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Sorry ScooterBum, but I can't agree. First, "Why do all the "Old guys" burn premium?" I don't and I'm probably one of the oldest riders here. My first scooter was a Cushman I bought in 1958. Rather than document all the experts just Google "should I use premium gas" and read the results.
I once did an experiment with a 50 cc 2 stroke Vino. For 5 tankfuls I ran premium. I saw no change either positive or negative as far as performance or fuel mileage. I did however, see the difference in my wallet.
If you want to do something nice, fuel wise for your scoot use Top Tier Gasoline. For more information see here:
http://www.toptiergas.com/
As for using racing oils; yet another bad idea. Lubricants that are specifically formulated for racing leave out some additives that are necessary for street use. One of the additives that is customarily left out of the package is the one that reduces corrosive/acid build-up since racing oils are changed frequently and those same additives cause foaming. Another, for the same reason is an additive that slows the formation of "gum". This is particularly true of Castrol "R".
Google "should i use racing oil" for more info and note that the manufacturers of real racing oils do NOT recommend them for street use.
While being ASE certified is impressive my experience includes a long stint as the owner of a racing engine and car building shop that specialized in SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) ProRally competition vehicles.
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Top tier gas seems to have a foot hold in all them name brand gas places i said to buy your gas.......
I dont know or care who they are as a corporation, as I dont want to sell anyone anything!
Yes, it is true that you should NOT run racing formulated oil in your station wagon, and yes they do require changing a little more often, (my god it holds over a qt!) but we are talking about an air cooled, high rpm engine! I have never seen the foaming problem you mention out side of the parafin based oils such as quaker state and penzoil, a type of oil that should never be put in anything of any value.
As for your gas milage comment on the vino 2 stroke, I don't get it. You state that your are sports car inclined, yet you try to increase gas mileage on a 2 stroke engine simply by raising the octane alone? This is a great way to increase low rpm power, but never fuel economy in a 2 stroke engine. If that held weight, then theoretically, on aviation fuel you would achieve super high fuel mileage, instead of the real results you get, "THE WILD RIDE", been there done that. There are some great big differences in 4 stroke engines, weather they are water cooled, air cooled, or oil cooled, my point was to not scrimp in the area of oil & gas! Stay with the name brands if you want your scooter to last!
I did not come here to measure testosterone or brain pans. I do not care who you are or what you've done or haven't done. I dont care if your dad can beat up my dad, if your scooter is better than mine, ect.
I don't even care if you dont follow free advise from me and use mini mart gas & oil, it is not my scooter.
My best advice is this...........
There seems to be alot of information available on the net on scooters. Some very good(scootdawg) some absolutely worthless lies aimed at getting you to choose one product over another. If you want to REALLY know how to keep a good running scooter, then find someone who has a sweet running scooter, and hang with and learn from that person. Better that than taking my advise and blowing up your scooter. Learn to work on your own scooter, as a zen thing, like spending time with it, lovin on it, but know I'm just being sentimental, or maybe just mental........... ::)
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I don't know your dad, so why would I want to beat him up? ??? ??? ???
I never said that I was trying to improve anything by using a higher octane. One requirement of a good scientific experiment is to start out with no preconceived notion as to the result. I was simply gathering data. The result was that there was no good reason to use a higher octane than needed to prevent detonation.
You stated your qualifications (ASE Certification) and I stated mine. I had no intention of measuring testosterone or brain pans, but since you've brought up the subject of experience when I sold the Vino it had 19,600+ miles on it and had been rebuilt once. A rough estimation says that's about 7 trillion strokes of the piston.
My response was not meant to be argumentative. You stated an opinion, I disagreed and stated mine.
Peace on Earth, good will to men. :-*