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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: codger78 on September 08, 2010, 07:52:45 PM
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Talked with a local city traffic coordinator (who manages all such devices) about it today.....Says that they are not set to trigger for anything under 60cc types etc.......I further asked about something, like magnets etc, that might overcome the problem, but without any luck, and is unaware of any devices on the market for it.
Seems to me that there had been some advice given either on this forum or elsewhere but can't remember where...If any of you gentlemen can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.........Thanks ;D
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Some here in Nashville, I can trigger on my People 250 (especially if I pull up along the cut line in the pavement); others will never change.
Fortunately, Tennessee law allows a two wheeler to treat a red light as a stop sign, after reasonable caution is exercised.
.
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In my town, sometimes they are triggered, sometimes not.
There is a loop that activates the ramp at the exit of the company where I work from inside. P250S activates it without problems.
However, there is one other loop in the center of the city that is not triggered, so I am forced to go through the red light, especially during weekends because the light would never change to green.
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Fortunately, Tennessee law allows a two wheeler to treat a red light as a stop sign, after reasonable caution is exercised.
I believe the same is true in Texas.
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in michigan you treat a red light as a 4 way stop. if it dont turn green.
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In Australia, if you go through a red light, you get a fine, and, yes, they have red light cameras. If you got money, they want it.
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In Australia, if you go through a red light, you get a fine, and, yes, they have red light cameras. If you got money, they want it.
The same anywhere in Europe.
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Just to keep us honest,,,, or we pay. :D
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WHERE IM AT I DON'T RUN INTO THAT PROBLEM THERES ALWAYS A CAR TO TURN IT ON LOL
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..most of the sensors around here are in the pavement..pressure sensitive...
..ive had troble with some, but the ones i travel thru every day, i've found ways of making them switch...
..gotta find the sweet spot...
;)
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No one using magnets,they do work. Got one tied to the 50 kickstand,sometimes got to push the stand down to help trigger over the sensors.
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..never tried th' magnet..hmmm....
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I've actually gotten off the scoot and run over to hit the cross walk button.
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I've actually gotten off the scoot and run over to hit the cross walk button.
..lmao..
;D :D ;D
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Ha! just tear one of your old speakers apart and a couple zip ties. Ps what the hell happend here,just got my router back on line and the sight has gone nuts :o ;D :D
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..i ain't been here in a few days...i know!!..itsa blazin'!!
:o
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I have already ripped all my speakers apart, but the magnets are already counted for, holding bits of paper to the shed wall.:)
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I have seen gadgets on ebay for changing the lights, I always laughed and moved right along.
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I had one on a used bike i picked up and it does work on most of the sensors,Another trick is to drive your kickstand down into them (kinda lean on it) I still got a couple lights i have to work my way around.
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I havent dont much testing on my own because i dont have this problem my self. Although i have tryed it late at night where there are no other trafic.
Anyway my reseach tells me thats its called a "inductive loop sensor" and it is a wire or loops of wires that detect metal.
From what i have read magnets will do nothing to trigger a green light. Its the metal that counts.
Here you can se a wire being layed into the road.
Traffic Signal Loop Detector Installation - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvzJn09DqaM#ws)
Traffic Signal Loop Detector Installation - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpnJZ_jF68#ws)
The chance for triggering the green light is best if you align the wheels just above wire in the road... i have read/heard... somewhere.
Notice the 2 white lines... there are they so to tell the cyclist where to stop to trigger the lights. And then notice the lines in the road under the white lines where the wires are layed.
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/billed1805.jpg)
This video explains that magnets works... but i dont belive this video.
how-to-trigger-green-traffic-lights.mp4 [A KipKay Presentation] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrUWLsEzT14#)
Heres a guy that have no luck with using a magnet.
San Jose CA, Red Lights Don't Change for MotorCycles, Scooters and Bicycles - SJ Fix Your Lights! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrS-y72JZ5I#)
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..damn, gris...you have all the techy answers..
..vids to back them up!!!...
..awesome!!!!
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Ya I don't have any written research but was told by a tec, the magnet disrupts the loop signal there for triggering it. The magnet does have to be strong to do so. As for me I thought it was b.s. but it does seem to work on about 80% and it was a freebee ;D
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Ya I don't have any written research but was told by a tec, the magnet disrupts the loop signal there for triggering it. The magnet does have to be strong to do so. As for me I thought it was b.s. but it does seem to work on about 80% and it was a freebee ;D
So magnets do work ?
I just know that neodynimum magnet like the ones in harddisk drives are very powerful.
So if people want to try the magnet and have a old harddisk there are 2 of these inside.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4d/Neodymag.jpg/220px-Neodymag.jpg)
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Ha! I think so. I don't ride at night much. If i get a chance i'll try to do a real test. It could have been coinsidense. But I'm pretty sure it was a factor.
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I have tried some lesser magnets with questionable results. Now I am going to decorate the bottom of my scooter with a half dozen hard disc magnets to really test this theory out once and for all.
American Science and Surplus is selling them for $4.50 each (40013P1 hard disc magnet with a 30 pound pull)...They also have several other types that you-all want to look over.
I am either going to change lights or I'm going to pick up ahellofalotta trash.
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PS.....listen carefully to the video......He said to place the magnets perpendicular to the road....which I interpret as having the north/south ends of the magnet pointing towards the sides of the road. That may not make a difference, but hey......It's easy enough to do using a compass or just a piece of iron.
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Ha! that many magnets ;) It might affect yor top speed ;D.
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Or yank manhole covers..(just don't accidentally drop your credit card at the fast food window)
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I am finally able to report that two hard drive magnets located upright and in a correctly aligned position and jammed into the forward floor recesses of the agility 50 will trip an intersection induction loop to turn the traffic light green. It takes a bit of experience to learn how approach the intersection loop area.
Correct magnet alignment can be made with the use of a boy scout's field compass placed beneath the scooter to sense best possible co-positioning (rotation) of the magnets, as they do tend to support each others magnetic field.
I had spray painted, cushioned, and gorilla taped the magnets in place.
I used my car at that intersection to check how long it would take (once triggered) the light to turn green (which in this case was a minute and a half).
The hard drive magnets can be bought at www.sciplus.com (http://www.sciplus.com) for $4.50 each.
WARNING......Do not allow the magnets to come together or you will never get them apart, or let get them near anything sensitive to magnetism ( like a credit card, a wrist watch, or electronic car keys)......You really have to think about what you are doing from the time you first unwrap them until you get them into position on the scooter.
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...do you find that you scoot slows down drastically when crossing railroad tracks??
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No....but it's kinda drag on my magnetic personality.
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;D So it wasn't my imagination ;) It did not work on all but seemed to work on most.
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Three things I learned today.
The scooter doesn't like starting up at 50 *F...she was slow turning over...and then she was slow warming up (kept saying ..no not yet, not yet.)....took a good ten minutes to make it up the hill.
OK....now re-elevate your mind.
The second thing is that (and I am ashamed to say) not all induction looped intersections respond to magnets (as has been generously noted by others to date)...and I have a spread of four 30 pound pull neodynimum (say that ten times fast) magnets...two fore, and two aft, all within eight or nine inches from the pavement surface and strongly affecting a hiking compass needle beneath them.
The tally now is that they turned two lights green, but not two others. Go figure......Maybe not enough Zen, or poor adjustment, or..or
Um..I forgot what the third thing was that I learned......but what the hay..I just turned 80...and I'm still kicking around.
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Ha! thats funny. I'm pretty sure they do something. Maybe the ones that don't trigger were put in upside down and you approach them backwords ;D
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but what the hay..I just turned 80
...wow....can we call you paw-paw??
;)
..i stand in admiration of you codger...
:o
..scoot on old boy!!!....
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OK...We need somebody here with an electronics degree.
All arguments heard re metal vs. magnets, we have not considered spaced magnets along the rims of the wheels.
Could such, in the ( rolling) approach to the intersection along the path of the induction coil create an electrical currant in the coil by means of magnetic fluctuation (such as happens in an electric motor or dynamo, or electric generator), thereby causing enough disturbance in the electrical field of the induction coil to trigger the stop light sequence??
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..i reckon i just thought the triggers were pressure sensitive..
..probably a low voltage, maybe 24vdc micro-switch setup...i dunno...
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Thanks for your input Wordslinger......One thing that I didn't think about, is if I started putting magnets on the wheel rims, that might unbalance them and cause them to vibrate...(or not maybe at 30-40 mph ??).
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...no, don't put anything on your wheels...
..likely to shake you and your scoot apart!!!
:o
..lol..
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It is known that Maxwell’s electrodynamics—as usually understood at the present time—when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. Take, for example, the reciprocal electrodynamic action of a magnet and a conductor. The observable phenomenon here depends only on the relative motion of the conductor and the magnet, whereas the customary view draws a sharp distinction between the two cases in which either the one or the other of these bodies is in motion. For if the magnet is in motion and the conductor at rest, there arises in the neighbourhood of the magnet an electric field with a certain definite energy, producing a current at the places where parts of the conductor are situated. But if the magnet is stationary and the conductor in motion, no electric field arises in the neighbourhood of the magnet. In the conductor, however, we find an electromotive force, to which in itself there is no corresponding energy, but which gives rise—assuming equality of relative motion in the two cases discussed—to electric currents of the same path and intensity as those produced by the electric forces in the former case.
– Albert Einstein, On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies
Unt yah...I knew dat!! ;D ;D ;D
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codger, you GOT me!!! I was reading that whole thing and thinking, "Wow, this fella's smart, how does he know all this?!!!" Then I saw the Albert Einstein line. :D
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It is known that Maxwell’s electrodynamics—as usually understood at the present time—when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do not appear to be inherent in the phenomena
..wtf........
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...dang...i just read the rest of it....
...where th' hell is lankee.....lol...
;D
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Yeah well,....Magnets do work/ magnets don't work...there is no argument here...they are both right.......(HOWS THAT AGAIN?)
It's like this, as long as the magnets are moving in the area of the intersection where the induction loop is affected, it works because an electrical current is being created to trigger the sensor.
But the moment that the scooter with the magnets comes to a stop at the intersection, they can no longer cause the traffic lights to change.
So, You have got to make it happen while the scooter is STILL MOVING over top of the loop.
I think that the trick is to approach the intersection along the right line at the right speed.
I guess it just takes experience. ;D ;D ;D
(Where is Albert when you need him?)
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at the right speed
..that's what i do...
..sometimes i need to kick it to make the trigger..
..sometimes i just need to chill and let it all happen...
..works most of the time!!!
;D
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Um...Kick it ??? ???
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..yeah, before the green light in the other direction turns yellow...
..after that happens, you gotta wait..no matter how heavy you are, or how many magnets y' got strapped to your scoot...
..it's about timimg...lol...
;D
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OK...gotcha....
I sat off to the side on a couple of intersections just to see how long it would take to for car to make it turn green.... Some times a minute or more.