KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vision4 on April 17, 2019, 08:48:36 PM
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I own a relatively new Kymco Downtown 350i 2018.
since the first service at 1000km, i only did 800km, and in that period the oil level decreased significantly. (well below the half point on the oil dipstick, close to the lower level).
i went to the official KYMCO dealership, and they say it's perfectly normal, and if an engine doesn't consume more than 300cc for every 1000km then there's nothing wrong with it.
i think they're lying.
as far as i'm aware of, there's no reason for a 4-stroke engine to burn oil. and if it does that means that there's a problem with the Piston/piston rings, the cylinder, or the valves seals.
Does anyone know if it is indeed normal for that engine to consume that much oil?
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My experience and MY OPINION(I am YELLING so you can regard my opinion for what it cost ya!)is NONE of the Kymcos in this camp used, burned nor leaked any oil even one that had 20000 miles that was stolen and wrecked. Your dealer is giving you a pantload of BS. Shows his ignorance and arrogance.Honda showed how it was done in the 60's and Kymco has carried that banner into battle as well. Now the question is, where is it going? No chance the bike was not level, was there? The are real, I say, REAL fussy about that 'cause most of the sumps are wide side-to-side and narrow fron-to-back. Smoke out the exhaust? Gobs of oil in the air cleaner box? Puddles? Watch it closely and tell your dealer I said....well, better not tell him THAT! But tell him the field experience, the operating customer experience is they don't leak or burn. Harley's in the old days maybe. Not these.
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It shouldn't consume oil with those low miles on it...even if it was run hard during the break in period. You might have a leak in the crank seals or the casing seals...but I doubt it.
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I agree with Karl, they are feeding you a pants load of BS. I have a 2018 400i xciting and I did not burn any oil. I have done 3 oil changes and no problems whatsoever
Dean
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Please tell us about your riding habits.
Are you running mostly full throttle for long periods on major motorways?
Also, have you looked at your airfilter since finding the low oil level?
And, what country are you in?
Stig
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They are feeding you a line of sh**.
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Like they said BS! ::)
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You need to take it back and demand it's swapped with another bike. It's a pup.
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First read the book on Kymco oil check procedure----bike level, on centerstand, engine run a little, wait for oil to drain back, check level without screwing in dipstick. Done over several day period, you may get true reading.
Or do oil changes yourself and you will know how much you put in. My 2019 XTown 300 I----run hard, 8-9 day trip, 2000 miles, oil level went down a little---100cc of oil brought level up....if that was even necessary---changed oil as soon as I got home.
Unless you have dealer who really rides/uses bikes, scooters and all of the employee ride bikes/scooter to work, I probably won't trust them for much advice.
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I cannot WAIT to hear from you what the dealer said in response to these comments! Of course, your option whether to tell him anything or nothing. I am just amazed how many times I hear reports of "It's normal, they all do that, it will change when it gets broken in." Sometimes it is true but not in this case, I feel. These types of comments are to get you gone or off the phone. The intention is the same: they are going to do nothing.
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Thanks for all the replys!
As for the break-in period - i drove through it exactly as recommended by the dealership and some research i did on my own. I did not reach very high revs, i always let the engine warm up in idle for a couple of minutes before driving, i was not aggressive with the throttle, i started slow and chill, i never stayed on a constant RPM for more than a little while, and i let the engine cool down every 15-30 minutes on average for about 10-15 minutes.
about the way i check the oil level - i do always make sure the bike is perfectly leveled, and follow the instructiones as you described, and i also check it very frequently since i noticed the problem, about twice a day. so the readings i get should be reliable.
john grinsel - i do not trust them for advice one bit, the thing is, i need them to fix it and they won't. because they claim that there's nothing to fix.
this is unbelievebly frustrating. i saved up a long time for time bike, spent well over 8000 dollars, and when there's a problem they feed me BS and avoid helping me.
what's more frustrating is that i have no where else to go, they're the only official KYMCO dealership in the country.
Right now i'm trying to get in touch with the KYMCO head office in Taiwan. they don't seem to respond to my emails. I hope they can help me in any way cuz otherwise im just lost.
anyone ever managed to get in touch with them?
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OK, you qualified yourself on break-in and operation quite well, I think. I am not surprised you are getting the typical dealer runaround AND you can get NO response from Kymco Taiwan (or Kymco Global as they like). I am currently working on a project to get a Greek dealer to support the warranty for an Athens area customer. It is more than frustrating to try to get these dealers to do ANYTHING besides to give BS and hot air after the sale. Are you in the US? Call Kymco USA in S. Carolina if you are and get your regional sales rep on the problem. This has worked in the past. Members of this forum are more knowledgeable than ANY dealer! You may be able to get your bike replaced since it is an oil problem IF you get the regional guy involved. This problem could be bigger than any other we have faced here before. The reason the dealers don't want to do any warranty is because Kymco is too cheap on labor compensation. They will throw parts all day long but won't pay labor so the two year warranty is about worthless.
So, what do YOU do? Find out where and how much the oil is going. It is either being burned or it is leaking or it is pooling somewhere. Find it. THEN see what it is gonna take to fix it. Get hot on this right away because two years go fast when the dealer is dragging his feet waiting for the warranty to expire. Where are you located? Maybe one of us can ride over and really confuse you in person!
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It's easier to see oil smoke from exhaust at night in a car's headlights. Also, synthetic oils don't smoke as much as dinosaur oil, so you might go to non-synthetic for test purposes. Do it at night, have a car follow you.
Suggestion if all else fails: Tell the dealer you will picket his store with a sign saying "Let me tell you about this dealer before buying here" or words to that effect. I once threatened to do it and got results immediately. You must be ready to do it. Here in the US of A it's legal to protest on a public sidewalk as long as you don't impede or obstruct foot traffic and you keep moving, back and forth. Tell him you will call the local newspaper, too, maybe get your picture in the paper in front of the dealership.
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I think you are on to something, stuo! Now, how do you do the equivalent with the importer, the factory and a fat Greek dealer in Athens? Har, har!
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Simple fix to start--- do compression test, at least that will tell if rings seated, check castings for leaks (I had new Burgman 400 with porous castings....fix for me was to trade for Yamaha TMAX). Then, oil is cheap, small displacement engine ain't going to use much.
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OK, you qualified yourself on break-in and operation quite well, I think. I am not surprised you are getting the typical dealer runaround AND you can get NO response from Kymco Taiwan (or Kymco Global as they like). I am currently working on a project to get a Greek dealer to support the warranty for an Athens area customer. It is more than frustrating to try to get these dealers to do ANYTHING besides to give BS and hot air after the sale. Are you in the US? Call Kymco USA in S. Carolina if you are and get your regional sales rep on the problem. This has worked in the past. Members of this forum are more knowledgeable than ANY dealer! You may be able to get your bike replaced since it is an oil problem IF you get the regional guy involved. This problem could be bigger than any other we have faced here before. The reason the dealers don't want to do any warranty is because Kymco is too cheap on labor compensation. They will throw parts all day long but won't pay labor so the two year warranty is about worthless.
So, what do YOU do? Find out where and how much the oil is going. It is either being burned or it is leaking or it is pooling somewhere. Find it. THEN see what it is gonna take to fix it. Get hot on this right away because two years go fast when the dealer is dragging his feet waiting for the warranty to expire. Where are you located? Maybe one of us can ride over and really confuse you in person!
Saying that members on this forum are more knowledgeable than ANY dealer is a bit of an arrogant stretch. I personally know many dealers that will run circles around you and most others here. Your take on the way KUS pays warranty is way off base also. If a dealer is stuck on a problem and contacts KUS Tech Services for assistance and KUS recommends the dealer do this or that, they pay both parts and labor plus diagnostic time. Granted that Kymco warranty/flat rate labor times are slim in many cases but, this is common with all manufacturers here in the US. Any brand. Dealers that follow KUS protocol get paid.
Just say'in
CJS
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I don't think it's the customer's responsibility to find the reason for the oil consumption. I would read the fine print of the warranty and if you believe you have met the terms in it then it's on the dealer to fix the problem. In fact, if you dismantle the scoot to find the problem you may violate the terms of the warranty. In the mean time I'd send the dealer a registered certified letter so you have proof that you had the problem before the warranty expires. It also shows him you are serious and can't be easily dismissed by his BS. Small Claims Court?
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CJS/Souzamoto and stuo: You betcha I am arrogant! Obnoxious, too! Har, har! I have to admit I am VERY short fused when it comes to dealers, their service writers and techs. It took Stig SIX MONTHS to get warranty on his like. Members of this forum diagnosed the problem correctly and practically trained the dealer how to use the Kymco analyzer tool. There was a dealer in Denver that told a customer he needed a NEW WIRING HARNESS on his new People GTi300 to fix his problem and he would have to pay for it! We got the regional guy involved to straighten that mess out. There are many stories on this forum and more on ADVrider forum where dealers hand a pantload of BS to a customer just to get rid of them because they don't want to fool with warranty work or cannot trouble shoot a problem. Yes, there ARE some good dealers but apparently very few. Now I love to help folks with tech problems. I love to get counselled when I am wrong because I learn something. It drives me nuts when some threads just die because the OP either quits, sells/junks the problem or the fix suggested works and he does not follow up but that's my problem. Dealer techs have yet to prove they have even a basic understanding how these bikes work. Currently working on a situation near Athens, Greece where a dealer told a new owner of a People S 150 ABS that all he has to do is crack the throttle to start his EFI scoot! So the problem is not just in the US. When I see a report that one impresses a rider with actually FIXING a problem I will fight to be first in line to compliment. I am waiting.....
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you can get NO response from Kymco Taiwan (or Kymco Global as they like).
Seriously? have you tried? that is extremely discouraging. They did not answer my emails so i recently sent a letter to their head office. i really need them to answer. that would simplify things.
stuo - Thanks for the suggestions! the idea with the oil smoke from the exhaust sounds nice, i'll try that. and i do actually have an official form from them with the date and description of the problem. I think that's a good enough proof that i came within the warranty period. Also the bike is brand new so there's more than a year and a half left.
If i can't get a response from Kymco, i won't give up, but that would complicate things. might have to take this to court.
for those who asked, i don't live in the US.
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Other than watching for smoke I wouldn't try to analyze the problem. Do NOT take the bike apart! It isn't your responsibility to find and fix the problem.
Please keep us informed of your results.
Stu
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Not only tried but tried several times, Vision4! Even on facebook! Tried calling KymcoUSA in S. Carolina and got an outside answering service that had no idea where anyone was! I have not been ignored this thoroughly since I wrote my congressman! The latest thing is obtaining the phone number of the NE Regional Sales Super for Kymco. The source of the number swore me to secrecy. I could tell you but then......well, you saw the movie!
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CJS/Souzamoto and stuo: You betcha I am arrogant! Obnoxious, too! Har, har! I have to admit I am VERY short fused when it comes to dealers, their service writers and techs. It took Stig SIX MONTHS to get warranty on his like. Members of this forum diagnosed the problem correctly and practically trained the dealer how to use the Kymco analyzer tool. There was a dealer in Denver that told a customer he needed a NEW WIRING HARNESS on his new People GTi300 to fix his problem and he would have to pay for it! We got the regional guy involved to straighten that mess out. There are many stories on this forum and more on ADVrider forum where dealers hand a pantload of BS to a customer just to get rid of them because they don't want to fool with warranty work or cannot trouble shoot a problem. Yes, there ARE some good dealers but apparently very few. Now I love to help folks with tech problems. I love to get counselled when I am wrong because I learn something. It drives me nuts when some threads just die because the OP either quits, sells/junks the problem or the fix suggested works and he does not follow up but that's my problem. Dealer techs have yet to prove they have even a basic understanding how these bikes work. Currently working on a situation near Athens, Greece where a dealer told a new owner of a People S 150 ABS that all he has to do is crack the throttle to start his EFI scoot! So the problem is not just in the US. When I see a report that one impresses a rider with actually FIXING a problem I will fight to be first in line to compliment. I am waiting.....
Crossbolt, you nailed it ! I am 100% with you on this one !
Fact is, most dealers and mechanics are arrogant, and many mechanics at dealer shops do not get proper training on the latest models of different products on the market. That’s exactly why some mechanics do not have a clue about what’s wrong when an owner have a problem with one of the latest models on the market.
On top of this - the latest generation of mechanics are often completely lost if can’t use a diagnostic tool - that’s part of the reason why the latest generation of mechanics are pretty useless at forums.
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OK OK---I read the complaint over again----real problem is the engine is not yet run in----800 km after 1st service---which ain't much,, suggest going out and riding it another 3-5,000 km and then measure oil use----then see if problem.....these things are not idiot proof. My XTown 300i now has at least 3200 miles (5,000 km) with at least 2 long trips....and now all systems seem to be run in and stable.
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OK OK---I read the complaint over again----real problem is the engine is not yet run in----800 km after 1st service---which ain't much,, suggest going out and riding it another 3-5,000 km and then measure oil use----then see if problem.....these things are not idiot proof. My XTown 300i now has at least 3200 miles (5,000 km) with at least 2 long trips....and now all systems seem to be run in and stable.
I disagree, John. Based firstly on my personal experience with 5 separate models of Kymco scooters and secondly I recall NO MENTION on this forum any mention like his. Now you have owned and ridden more models and more miles than anyone I am aware of so I tend to put a LOT of stock in your comments. However, this truly seems like the exception.
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Based on over 75 new bikes/scooters and throw in over 1.5 million miles.
I think scooter in complaint needs to be run-in. Start with full/correct oil level. measure correctly after long rides or at least every 500km repeat several times over let's say 3,000 km----oil really goes down....then there is problem.
Hope customer really rides.
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I will bet his dealer recommends this very thing, John. Probably hoping he does not ride that much and the warranty will run out.....
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I think scooter in complaint needs to be run-in. Start with full/correct oil level. measure correctly after long rides or at least every 500km repeat several times over let's say 3,000 km----oil really goes down....then there is problem.
That seems like a really long period for break in, doesn't it? According to some research i did, 1000km/600 miles should be more than enough. there's a bunch of people including mechanics who are arguing that even those 1000km are not really neccessery in modern engines, and that only the first 50-100 kilometers are important for making the piston ring and cylinder fit perfectly. And manufacturers keep that reccomendation because it's good for buisness. (the more carefully you drive durning warranty period - less chance for problems appearing that they have to fix).
some articles and videos iv'e seen (like that one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoglovyy_8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoglovyy_8)) even claim that with the level of precision in which engine parts are manufactured today, there's little to no meaning for a break-in period at all. (not for the engine anyways).
but 3000 - 5000 km? that's gonna take like half a year
i definetly will ride as much as i can tho, to try and quantify and document the problem. gonna come usefull in court
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After two 2013 DT300i scoots took about 7500 miles each to stabilize, I think you have longer to think about! Now, neither consumed any oil in that time, just used less and less fuel until that number stopped going up. Started about 65-68 mpg and topped at 73-75 mpg. Oil never varied. Same for a Like200i and a Yager 200i. Same distance just bigger mpg!
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After two 2013 DT300i scoots took about 7500 miles each to stabilize, I think you have longer to think about! Now, neither consumed any oil in that time, just used less and less fuel until that number stopped going up. Started about 65-68 mpg and topped at 73-75 mpg. Oil never varied. Same for a Like200i and a Yager 200i. Same distance just bigger mpg!
I see your point, it is true that different parts of the scooter have different break-in periods.
But regarding my specific problem, the only part that matters is the engine (assuming there's no oil leak, which i have not yet found). Or even more specificly, assuming i have it right, the problem is originating from one of 2 parts of the engine: (please someone tell me if i'm wrong).
*Either there's a problem with the fitment between the piston ring and the cylinder, which will allow oil to make its way from the crank shaft to the combustion chamber, and then burn along with the air and fuel mixture, resulting in oil loss + excess fuel usage + HP loss.
*Or there's a problem with the valves seals, which will allow oil to enter the combustion chamber from the cylinder head area. which will also result in the same symptoms.
The main risk from not breaking in the engine properly is the former case. (the valves seals don't really require breaking-in as far as i know).
And according to many sources and people i've talked to, it's a pretty definite consensus that the break-in period for the piston/cylinder is at most 1000km, and as i've mentioned earlier, it seems like the majority of proffesionals these days claim that it's actually much less than that in modern engines.
so 1800km (actually i'm on 2000 by now) should be more then enough.
P.S.
if anything i have written here is wrong i'll be very glad to know and be enlightened.(seriously).
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I would say you have it right. I think I recall you followed the owner's manual break-in which is a pretty easy and accepted procedure. De dee in Canada has a very strenuous break-in schedule and he has high miles on his DT300i. All this is to say that a rider would have to be pretty drastic to do it wrong! Stuo or someone had a pretty good idea of how to see any smoke. So if it is not leaking it, it's burning it by the two areas you named. Keep tabs on it and post what you get.
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You all have expressed opinions which have merit. But if scooters are anything like automobiles, there’s a rhyme and reason to dealing with claims of excess oil consumption in order for a dealer to deal with it and for the manufacturer to honor any warranty. It’s performed AFTER the break in period. The customer should suggest an “OIL CONSUMPTION TEST “ in order to begin the process.
1. It MUST be documented by an oil consumption test per the manufacturer. With Ford that includes THE DEALER performing an oil change, marking the level on the dipstick, and marking the drain plug , so it can be detected if the customer tampers with the drain plug after it leaves. (Not all customers are honest either).
2. The miles are recorded and documented.
3. The customer drives in a normal manner and regularly checks the oil until A. The level drops by a certain amount or B. The mileage is reached for the next oil change. He can check it himself or bring it to the dealer during this time.
4. The customer brings it back to the dealer for them to document the findings and record the mileage.
5 the findings are compared with the OFFICIAL manufacturer’s specifications. This is typically allows more consumption than typical to allow for the fact that some indeed do drive their vehicles like a bat from the underworld. But in practice, most vehicles either pass with flying colors or fail miserably. Very few either barely pass or barely fail.
If these procedures are not followed precisely and the dealer replaces an engine based on just the customer’s word, the DEALER will end up EATING the repair.
The dealer will have WRITTEN information from the manufacturer which states the allowable oil consumption, not just him expressing an opinion. Simply taking either the dealers word for it is not sufficient.
Dealers lie. Customers lie. Improper oil is sometimes used. Mistakes are made during oil changes. But the oil consumption test with DOCUMENTED results does not lie. I have no idea what KYMCO’s process is. But I’m sure they have some Official process. The customer should insist that it’s followed rather than the dealer just saying “looks ok to meâ€. Good luck sir.
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You all have expressed opinions which have merit. But if scooters are anything like automobiles, there’s a rhyme and reason to dealing with claims of excess oil consumption in order for a dealer to deal with it and for the manufacturer to honor any warranty. It’s performed AFTER the break in period. The customer should suggest an “OIL CONSUMPTION TEST “ in order to begin the process.
1. It MUST be documented by an oil consumption test per the manufacturer. With Ford that includes THE DEALER performing an oil change, marking the level on the dipstick, and marking the drain plug , so it can be detected if the customer tampers with the drain plug after it leaves. (Not all customers are honest either).
2. The miles are recorded and documented.
3. The customer drives in a normal manner and regularly checks the oil until A. The level drops by a certain amount or B. The mileage is reached for the next oil change. He can check it himself or bring it to the dealer during this time.
4. The customer brings it back to the dealer for them to document the findings and record the mileage.
5 the findings are compared with the OFFICIAL manufacturer’s specifications. This is typically allows more consumption than typical to allow for the fact that some indeed do drive their vehicles like a bat from the underworld. But in practice, most vehicles either pass with flying colors or fail miserably. Very few either barely pass or barely fail.
If these procedures are not followed precisely and the dealer replaces an engine based on just the customer’s word, the DEALER will end up EATING the repair.
The dealer will have WRITTEN information from the manufacturer which states the allowable oil consumption, not just him expressing an opinion. Simply taking either the dealers word for it is not sufficient.
Dealers lie. Customers lie. Improper oil is sometimes used. Mistakes are made during oil changes. But the oil consumption test with DOCUMENTED results does not lie. I have no idea what KYMCO’s process is. But I’m sure they have some Official process. The customer should insist that it’s followed rather than the dealer just saying “looks ok to meâ€. Good luck sir.
Thanks a lot for this explanation! that was an interesting read.
I will ask them to do an oil consumption test though i doubt they'll agree. honestly, i doubt they even do those in general, judging by their attitude.
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Thanks a lot for this explanation! that was an interesting read.
I will ask them to do an oil consumption test though i doubt they'll agree. honestly, i doubt they even do those in general, judging by their attitude.
Again, I don’t know about Kymco. But with cars, we have no problem performing them because it ensures that the vehicle had the proper oil in it. It satisfies the customer that we made an honest attempt to verify their problem. It either EXONERATES us and Proves That the vehicle is NOT using oil as they claim. Or it gives us cover and makes sure WE get PAID by the manufacturer if there’s actually a verifiable problem.
At the very least, ask them to SHOW YOU where Kymco says that x amount of oil consumption is acceptable after the break-in period. Then go from there. Contact Kymco if there’s anyway possible, and get them involved. They will often tell you and the dealer how to properly verify or rule out the problem.
If the dealer knows they’ll be reimbursed for their efforts , they are more likely to be of assistance. After all WARRANTY work is still work. It pays them too . There’s just more paperwork for them. But they will get paid if the manufacturer authorizes their efforts.
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I just found something extremly depressing.
this is from an official Kymco workshop/service manual for Downtown 125i: https://i.imgur.com/RXGK1Bk.png
That scooter has a similar single cylinder 4-stroke engine like mine so that's probably written in my bike's manual as well.
that blows the steam out of my case.
they can just claim that's "natural oil consumption" and i have no way to prove otherwise.
what the hell is even a natural oil consumption? i went through the whole manual and there's not another word on that subject. like how much oil consumption is considered "natural"? and how can you tell if an oil decrease is "natural" or not?. And why would they mention it? that's a perfect cover up. just call it "natural consumption" so you dont have to do s*** when someone buys your bike and the engine is f***** up.
apparently it's not my dealers attidute. it's Kymco themselves who claim that oil decrease is normal.
I dont see anything i can do now other then just live with that.
unbelievble.
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Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?
(Scion has an oil consumption procedure which involves a dealer sealed dip stick and fill cap)
There are some consumption limits which, while troubling to the owner, are considered within acceptable tolerances by the manufacturer.
Hopefully your situation will improve in time.
Stig
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..........that blows the steam out of my case.
they can just claim that's "natural oil consumption" and i have no way to prove otherwise.
what the hell is even a natural oil consumption? i went through the whole manual and there's not another word on that subject. like how much oil consumption is considered "natural"? and how can you tell if an oil decrease is "natural" or not?. And why would they mention it? that's a perfect cover up. just call it "natural consumption" so you dont have to do s*** when someone buys your bike and the engine is f***** up.
apparently it's not my dealers attidute. it's Kymco themselves who claim that oil decrease is normal.
I dont see anything i can do now other then just live with that.
unbelievble.
You got it - that’s how most manufacturers roll.
For example, my son in the US is a qualified mechanic. He got his training at an official training center for well known cars from European origin.
About three or four years ago one of my brothers in law in South Africa bough himself a sports car - the same brand as the brand my son got his training on.
Right from the start my brother in law was complaining about the car’s oil consumption. He went back to the agents many times, without solving anything.
When I told my son about this car’s oil consuption, he told me “all those models have a problem with oil consumption, we know about the problem - the piston ring gaps on those engins are too bigâ€.
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Again, while manufacturers cover their rears by saying that some oil consumption is normal, they also usually have some guidelines WRITTEN Somewhere for their dealers to go by.
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Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?
(Scion has an oil consumption procedure which involves a dealer sealed dip stick and fill cap)
There are some consumption limits which, while troubling to the owner, are considered within acceptable tolerances by the manufacturer.
Hopefully your situation will improve in time.
Stig
Exactly. That’s why I was trying to explain. Manufacturers have a break in mileage that MUST be reached before they will test for oil consumption. Then they change the oil using THE MANUFACTURER’s recommended oil and mark everything. Sometimes a particular brand of oil simply runs through a particular engine even if it’s the correct weight. That’s why they use their own.
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You got it - that’s how most manufacturers roll.
For example, my son in the US is a qualified mechanic. He got his training at an official training center for well known cars from European origin.
About three or four years ago one of my brothers in law in South Africa bough himself a sports car - the same brand as the brand my son got his training on.
Right from the start my brother in law was complaining about the car’s oil consumption. He went back to the agents many times, without solving anything.
When I told my son about this car’s oil consuption, he told me “all those models have a problem with oil consumption, we know about the problem - the piston ring gaps on those engins are too bigâ€.
Even so, manufacturers still have a written standard that says “this engine should consume no more than x amount in y mileage design flaw or not. That amount may be more than we’re used to accepting, but it’s usually somewhere around 1qt/ 3000 miles for modern engines. They used to say 1qt/1500. Some may still use that standard. But ford is 1qt/3000.
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Even so, manufacturers still have a written standard that says “this engine should consume no more than x amount in y mileage design flaw or not. That amount may be more than we’re used to accepting, but it’s usually somewhere around 1qt/ 3000 miles for modern engines. They used to say 1qt/1500. Some may still use that standard. But ford is 1qt/3000.
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Aparently the written standard by the manufacturer I was referring to is “anything up to 1 Liter every 800 milesâ€. Oil consumption on this spesific model is usually lower than 1 liter/800 miles - so the manufacturer cover themselves for replacing piston rings left, right, and center.
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Aparently the written standard by the manufacturer I was referring to is “anything up to 1 Liter every 800 milesâ€. Oil consumption on this spesific model is usually lower than 1 liter/800 miles - so the manufacturer cover themselves for replacing piston rings left, right, and center.
WoW!!!! That standard hasn't been used for well over 20 years! And when ford has an engine that Commonly has high oil consumption, they usually come up with a fix as long as it occurs within the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.
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At the very least, ask them to SHOW YOU where Kymco says that x amount of oil consumption is acceptable after the break-in period. Then go from there. Contact Kymco if there’s anyway possible, and get them involved.
Well the mechanic did say that up to 300cc for every 1000 km is normal. Which, by the way, seems absurd to me. That would mean, given that the service intervals are 5K, that i lose 1.5 liters of oil between services! 150%. On a brand new bike! I mean seriously, does that not sound ridiculous?
And as for them showing me where kymco says that, i can try that even though i doubt there's a phyisical document or something. And in anycase, they can just lie. Fabricate any document they want. How would i confirm what they say? They are the only dealer in the country, And according to what CROSSBOLT said (which i really hope will prove wrong), there's no way for me to contact Kymco. They can keep feeding me BS as much as they want.
And let me tell you something else. That bike is one for the few top sellers in the country for the past 4 years since it came out. That means there are thousends of them in the streets, Particularly in my city. And so i get a lot of chances to have small talks with other owneres in intersections and such. So far i've talked to more than 15 different owners. And, you guessed it, None of their bikes consumes oil. Not durning the break in, not after the break in and not for many thousends of miles after that. Not 300cc and not 100cc. They don't have to fill a single drop of oil in between services.
And im sure that'll still be the case after i ask another 100 owners.
So how come my engine is the only one that "naturaly" consumes oil? That's such an obvious, blatant lie.
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Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?
Thanks. I will give it more time and keep track. Doesn't seem like i have any other choice at this point anyway.
You meantioned different oil. I have noticed something weird.
When the dealership changes my oil at 1000km, i noticed they put in oil in a different viscocity then recommended in the manual.
the oil they put in is syntetic SAE 5W-40, While the oil visocity that's reccomended in the users manual is SAE 5W-50.
there are several other alternative viscocities mentioned in the manual, but none of them is 5W-40.
could that be the problem?
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WoW!!!! That standard hasn't been used for well over 20 years! And when ford has an engine that Commonly has high oil consumption, they usually come up with a fix as long as it occurs within the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Completely wrong. Those models came on the market about 10 years ago. As far as I know those cars have never been re-called by the manufacturer anywhere across the word, including the USA.
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could that be the problem?
"THE PROBLEM"?
No. Not that much difference between the two.
Might try talking with the service manager about alternate oils, which would still take care of your relatively new engine - while improving the rate of consumption.
Stig
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Well the mechanic did say that up to 300cc for every 1000 km is normal. Which, by the way, seems absurd to me. That would mean, given that the service intervals are 5K, that i lose 1.5 liters of oil between services! 150%. On a brand new bike! I mean seriously, does that not sound ridiculous?
And as for them showing me where kymco says that, i can try that even though i doubt there's a phyisical document or something. And in anycase, they can just lie. Fabricate any document they want. How would i confirm what they say? They are the only dealer in the country, And according to what CROSSBOLT said (which i really hope will prove wrong), there's no way for me to contact Kymco. They can keep feeding me BS as much as they want.
And let me tell you something else. That bike is one for the few top sellers in the country for the past 4 years since it came out. That means there are thousends of them in the streets, Particularly in my city. And so i get a lot of chances to have small talks with other owneres in intersections and such. So far i've talked to more than 15 different owners. And, you guessed it, None of their bikes consumes oil. Not durning the break in, not after the break in and not for many thousends of miles after that. Not 300cc and not 100cc. They don't have to fill a single drop of oil in between services.
And im sure that'll still be the case after i ask another 100 owners.
So how come my engine is the only one that "naturaly" consumes oil? That's such an obvious, blatant lie.
They wouldn’t take a chance on falsifying that information in writing. . If they gave you that figure they either are telling the truth and will gladly print it to “shut you up†, or they are lying and have no proof and grabbed that figure out of the air.
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Completely wrong. Those models came on the market about 10 years ago. As far as I know those cars have never been re-called by the manufacturer anywhere across the word, including the USA.
It’s a shame when a lowly American manufacturer has a stricter standard than a European model.
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"THE PROBLEM"?
No. Not that much difference between the two.
Might try talking with the service manager about alternate oils, which would still take care of your relatively new engine - while improving the rate of consumption.
Stig
Just noticed something. They used synthetic oil. I remember in the past some manufacturers said synthetic oil should not be used until completely broken in because it actually prevented the rings from completely seating. Perhaps he should switch to conventional oil for at least one more oil change to see what happens. That may do the trick
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I read "letting it warm up" does that mean sitting at idle a long time? Could lead to fuel deluding oil---thinning which could can burn off quicker. Start up for me, means start....wait maybe 5-10 seconds for oil to circulate, ride off keeping revs down until temp comes up.
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I bought a second hand BMW R1100 that used a quart between changes at 20K miles. The previous owner used synthetic oil from new. I filled up with non-synthetic, rode it like I stole it and eventually got the consumption down to 1/4 quart between changes. You might try non-synthetic but you also have to comply with the warranty requirements on oil.
Your "warm-up" procedure seems OK, modern multi-vis oils circulate fast without lengthy warm up. In fact, I've read warnings about excessive warm up times.
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It’s a shame when a lowly American manufacturer has a stricter standard than a European model.
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It’s not an American manufacturer, the manufacturer is from Europe.
I sent you a PM. You can just Google the subject. There are lots of discussions regarding these car’s oil consumption on the Internet.
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Forbes1964 - They actually put in the synthetic oil at 1000km, which is after the break in period. I don't know what they used before that (from the get-go). Though i doubt the type of oil is the problem. I imagine they use the same type on hunderds of scooters like mine every month.
john grinsel, stuo - Durning the break-in period, what i did was let the engine run idle until it reached working temperature. which is around 4-5 minutes. does that count as a long time? That was a recommendation i got from many people, also several sources(articles, videos) online.
Since after the break in period, i let it run idle for about 2-3 minutes usually. And just as you mentioned, i keep low revs for the first couple of minutes.
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Forbes1964 - They actually put in the synthetic oil at 1000km, which is after the break in period. I don't know what they used before that (from the get-go). Though i doubt the type of oil is the problem. I imagine they use the same type on hunderds of scooters like mine every month.
john grinsel, stuo - Durning the break-in period, what i did was let the engine run idle until it reached working temperature. which is around 4-5 minutes. does that count as a long time? That was a recommendation i got from many people, also several sources(articles, videos) online.
Since after the break in period, i let it run idle for about 2-3 minutes usually. And just as you mentioned, i keep low revs for the first couple of minutes.
Question: was it low before the oil change? If not, I’d simply change the oil again using the non synthetic oil and see what happens. I’ve seen a vehicle use oil for one oil change cycle and never do it again. If you put the conventional oil in it, and it no longer consumes oil, then it’s possible that the synthetic oil simply doesn’t agree with it at this point. Try it later. Don’t stress... yet. See what happens next oil change. Also, how long do you have left on the warranty? If you’re putting the miles on quickly, if there’s a problem, the consumption will likely increase. And you’ll have more ammunition by saying that it’s getting worse. Good luck. Keep us informed.
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I dont think it was low before the oil change. The problem started after the 1000km service.
i'll try a non-synthetic oil. see how it goes.
The waranty will void at 2021, so there's plenty of time left. But even if the consumption does increase. they can keep claiming that's "natural oil consumption" all they want. what's gonna stop them? unless they will indeed show me in writing what's the tolerance like you suggested. which i highly doubt.
By the way, stupid question - does anyone know if a new scooter is delivered from the factory with oil already in it? Or is it first exported, and then the dealer puts in the oil?
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They're delivered from the manufacturer with transit oil in them, and then sent out as-is by the dealer until their first oil change.
Source: working with Chinese/Taiwanese importer of bikes in the UK
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I dont think it was low before the oil change. The problem started after the 1000km service.
i'll try a non-synthetic oil. see how it goes.
The waranty will void at 2021, so there's plenty of time left. But even if the consumption does increase. they can keep claiming that's "natural oil consumption" all they want. what's gonna stop them? unless they will indeed show me in writing what's the tolerance like you suggested. which i highly doubt.
By the way, stupid question - does anyone know if a new scooter is delivered from the factory with oil already in it? Or is it first exported, and then the dealer puts in the oil?
If indeed the problem continues, I find that PERSISTENCE brings results. You don’t have to be belligerent. But if they see that you won’t go away, and if you let them know that you know that’s not anywhere near typical, they’ll do the actual research and find out what Kymco says. It’s likely that they didn’t even check. But if you stand firm, they’ll likely actually contact Kymco rather than simply giving their opinion.
At the place I work, if a customer stands firm, in cases that are a close call, Ford often grants permission for the dealership to fix the problem.,
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Mr. Forbes is, as usual, a font of wisdom. My mother was expert at using the "broken record" approach to getting satisfaction. She would repeatedly confront the man in charge with her demand, never arguing or responding to the manager's excuses. "I want my money back" over and over, day after day if necessary. She always got it back.
Be politely unreasonable and, as Mr. Forbes said, persistent.
In the meantime don't baby your scoot; give it full throttle away from lights. You want the rings to seat.
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Mr. Forbes is, as usual, a font of wisdom. My mother was expert at using the "broken record" approach to getting satisfaction. She would repeatedly confront the man in charge with her demand, never arguing or responding to the manager's excuses. "I want my money back" over and over, day after day if necessary. She always got it back.
Be politely unreasonable and, as Mr. Forbes said, persistent.
In the meantime don't baby your scoot; give it full throttle away from lights. You want the rings to seat.
One of my favorite parables in the Bible is the parable of the widow and the unjust judge. He didn’t care about God or the widow. But he wanted some peace from this woman bothering him every day. So he gave her justice.
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They're delivered from the manufacturer with transit oil in them, and then sent out as-is by the dealer until their first oil change.
Thanks!
So, given that the oil Kymco reccommends for my scooter is SAE 5W-50, can i assume this is the oil the scooter came with?
And if i can, that might imply that the oil does have something to with the problem:
Scooter came with the reccomended oil, did not consume any oil, at 1000km they changed it to 5w-40 which is not on the list of the reccomended ones from Kymco, and the scooter started consuming oil.
maybe its a good idea to get the exact reccomended one - 5W-50 - and see how it goes?
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Sounds like the best idea yet!
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Sounds like the best idea yet!
True. Although it MAY not make a difference, I always believe in following the manufacturer’s guidelines concerning any fluids, especially during the warranty period. And I’d definitely make sure whatever weight oil I use is on their list and is appropriate for the conditions I expect to operate it.
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There is such a wealth of misinformation here. Where to begin...
First of all, drain the oil out of the bike and put in the amount that the manual calls for. Ride it about twenty minutes, and then check the level on the dipstick in whatever manner you choose to do so. Then you will know how the correct amount of oil is going to look on your dipstick.
If you are adding too much oil to it, it will keep spitting the oil out through the valve in the valve cover until it is at the right level. People who constantly check their oil usually do keep enthusiastically overfilling it. If you don't believe this, stop adding oil and see if it goes down to nothing.
If you get really enthusiastic adding oil, you can cause something called cavitation in your crankcase. This is not good for a lot of parts.
If you ride an oversquare single cylinder at high rpms all the time, it does use oil.
The issue with oil usage with 5-40 is not caused by the 40, it's caused by the 5. If you want to eliminate viscosity breakdown or ring slip as a factor in oil use, use a 15-50 or 20-50 synthetic.
People who think you should not use synthetic oil to break in an engine, or that the oil in your new scooter is break-in or transit oil, probably have less than a current understanding of the way this works. Most high end autos and bikes are shipped from the factory with synthetic oil now, and it works fine. The problems you read about in forums are things people dug up in the early 1970s and have been posting online since the internet was invented.
Your bike is probably fine, and if you keep filling it with oil, you are more likely to shorten it's life than if you put in the correct amouont of oil and leave it alone.
If you decide to act out in front of a dealership, most of the customers will think you are an idiot or loser. The dealer is more than likely to tell them something that makes you look even dumber, but it doesn't deter customers. The other employees will point you out to customers and laugh. The customers will laugh too. Any press you get will be along the lines of, "crazy person wants something free from local business." Is any Kymco customer going to get back on his scooter and ride up the block to the next kymco dealer? Do you think the dealer will ever go out of their way to help you in the future? In most States, scooters and motorcycles are not covered by the Lemon Law.
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Hey, first of all, thanks for this comment!
First of all, drain the oil out of the bike and put in the amount that the manual calls for.
I am seriously thinking about doing that, the thing is i need to get some stuff like a measuring container, oil drain container and a tourqe wrench i think (According to the users manual the oil drain plug should be tightend with a very speciefic tourqe).
then you will know how the correct amount of oil is going to look on your dipstick.
Interesting idea. So youre saying the dealer might have filled too much oil at the first service, and then the oil was decreasing towards the correct level and should have stopped there? The thing is tho - the oil level reached very close to the lowest level on the dipstick. Do you think the perfect oil amount will show on that very low level and keep stable? if it will, than that sounds like a defect. How am i suppose to know then if the oil pressure is dangerously low? If the perfect amount is already represented by just a few milimeters above the lowest point? that can't be right.
And one more thing, durning the first 1000km the oil level was fixed, on the higest level on the dipstick. how does that settle with your theory?
If you get really enthusiastic adding oil..... Your bike is probably fine, and if you keep filling it with oil, you are more likely to shorten it's life than if you put in the correct amouont of oil and leave it alone.......
I have not filled one drop of oil, not once. When i went to the dealer after 1800km they filled like 100-200cc and that was it.
if you ride an oversquare single cylinder at high rpms all the time, it does use oil.
I do not ride on high RPMs at all. Quite the contrary. Most of my rides are within the city.
most of the customers will think you are an idiot or loser. The dealer is more than likely to tell them something that makes you look even dumber, but it doesn't deter customers. The other employees will point you out to customers and laugh. The customers will laugh too
That's plain wrong. The dealer did not tell any customer anything about me, No one was dissrespectfull or laughed, and some customers i talked to after i argued with the mechanic actually agreed with me. Actually every other custumer i talked to. and every other Downtown owner iv'e had the chance to ask.
Do you think the dealer will ever go out of their way to help you in the future?
You got that very wrong as well. I think they will definetly go out of their way to avoid helping me. That's why i'm thinking about making them(in court). But that "Natural oil consumption" stuff complicates things. So I'm really just trying to figure out for sure if there's a problem, or is it indeed natural and normal.
In most States, scooters and motorcycles are not covered by the Lemon Law.
I'm not from the states nor do i know what this "Lemon law" is.
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In terms of acting out, I was referring more to people who think you should get a sign and picket in front of the dealership.
As far as your other ideas regarding how things should be, keep in mind that you are under the impression you need a torque wrench to change the oil.
Kymcos usually have a tube with a plug in it coming off the air box. What comes out if it?
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In terms of acting out, I was referring more to people who think you should get a sign and picket in front of the dealership.
As far as your other ideas regarding how things should be, keep in mind that you are under the impression you need a torque wrench to change the oil.
Kymcos usually have a tube with a plug in it coming off the air box. What comes out if it?
That last sentence, are you asking Vision to see what answer he will give? Or are you asking looking for an answer? Sorry for asking two questions, I cannot break myself from doing that!
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I want to know what comes out when he opens it. That will give him a better idea of what's happening in his engine.
The problem with relying on the dipstick as a measuring device is that most of the manufacturers use the same dipstick across platforms, so you aren't going to know that when the dipstick is at this point that means it has that many ml of oil in the crankcase, and the vast majority of people who check their oil every chance they get and constantly top it off, do overfill it. That oil goes somewhere.
When I said to change the oil, I meant to drain it, and replace the filter, then fill it with the correct amount, as stated in the owners manual. Many manuals give you the quantity you need with an empty engine, and the quantity you need if you are refilling the crankcase on a working engine. What could be simpler. Then look at the dipstick and you will see how much should be in there. To do this, you need oil, the correct sockets and a filter. The amount that comes out is not important in this case, only what goes in, and you can use the measuring lines on the side of most oil containers.
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Vision 4,
I hope we have been able to shed some light on your original question.
Feel free to let us know what you do, and what the dealer does regarding your scooter.
The direction this thread is taking is not what we like to see on this forum.
The Moderator
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Vision 4,
I hope we have been able to shed some light on your original question.
Feel free to let us know what you do, and what the dealer does regarding your scooter.
The direction this thread is taking is not what we like to see on this forum.
The Moderator
This forum has been nothing but helpfull. Thank you very much.
I will update on what's going on
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This forum has been nothing but helpfull. Thank you very much.
I will update on what's going on
I always believe in starting with the simple before panicking. And the absolute simplest thing to do is to change the oil at the next oil change and put the EXACT oil in that’s recommended by Kymco for your operating conditions. Then drive normally and see what happens. The other things we may have suggested are VERY premature. Even the condemnation of the dealer based on their calling it “normal “ is premature. No need to make them your enemy before you know for certain if an actual problem exists, or if it’s simply a fluke.
As my mother often says when we worry prematurely and come up with worse case scenarios as a FIRST reaction, “Now don’t you go BORROWING TROUBLE “. Lol.
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I always believe in starting with the simple before panicking. And the absolute simplest thing to do is to change the oil at the next oil change and put the EXACT oil in that’s recommended by Kymco for your operating conditions. Then drive normally and see what happens. The other things we may have suggested are VERY premature. Even the condemnation of the dealer based on their calling it “normal “ is premature. No need to make them your enemy before you know for certain if an actual problem exists, or if it’s simply a fluke.
As my mother often says when we worry prematurely and come up with worse case scenarios as a FIRST reaction, “Now don’t you go BORROWING TROUBLE “. Lol.
Thanks a whole lot:) that actually cheered me up.
I will change the oil the first chance i get. Right now i'm still hoping i get a response from Kymco.
Fingers crossed
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If you were Kymco, and the dealership said there was nothing wrong with the scooter, what response do you think you'd give?
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If you were Kymco, and the dealership said there was nothing wrong with the scooter, what response do you think you'd give?
Excellent point! It is exactly, EXACTLY the point in nearly ALL the warranty issues such as Jordan Kaptan's problem in Greece. His new 2018 People S 150 ABS has an engine start problem and an unexplained engine failure problem. The dealer has been stringing him along for months. The importer is now bringing up the number of miles on the bike as a disqualifier for warranty. Kymco global only knows what the dealer and the importer tells them so they propose sending a new ECU for installation at the end of May! Boils down to the dealer tech is the "expert" and the customer is at the mercy of a man who just can't be bothered.
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I don't know if this is the case with your bike, but one person earlier in this thread brought up the idea that manufacturers use the same dipstick for multiple models, and that "full" for your machine may or may not read as full on the dipstick. I just wanted to circle back to this because on my UXV 450i, when I received it brand new from the dealer about six weeks ago, the oil level on the dipstick was right in the middle of the acceptable range on the dipstick - not low, not high.
This past weekend, I did the first oil change. After refilling the engine with the amount of oil recommended in the owner's manual (2.5 quarts), guess where the oil level is on the dipstick? That's right; right in the middle of the run range. So, I would not see any reason to "top it off" by adding a little more oil, and I wonder if the engine would consume oil if I did until it returned to the current level.
At any rate, just thought I would share this, because I think the suggestion someone else gave regarding draining the oil, filling to exact manual specs and then monitoring is a good one. You may have already done that, but perhaps this will be helpful for someone else down the line. At any rate, I wish you the best of luck with your machine and hope you get your problem resolved soon.
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The dipstick in each model is accurate for that model.
I asked at the Kymco dealer today -
"Of course they are, full is full, low is low!"
Not the most personable fellow.
Kymco is thrifty - but if a dipstick looks like one in another model - doesn't matter. The oil reservoir and the dipstick combo will give a proper reading on the stick when checked.
Of course the owner must check if the level is to be checked with the stick screwed fully in, or 'resting' on the lip of the oil fill.
Stig
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The dipstick in each model is accurate for that model.
I asked at the Kymco dealer today -
"Of course they are, full is full, low is low!"
Not the most personable fellow.
Kymco is thrifty - but if a dipstick looks like one in another model - doesn't matter. The oil reservoir and the dipstick combo will give a proper reading on the stick when checked.
Of course the owner must check if the level is to be checked with the stick screwed fully in, or 'resting' on the lip of the oil fill.
Stig
I truly want to know the outcome of this. I predict that this will end up as much ado about nothing. I believe additional break in and the actual recommended oil will bring oil consumption down to actual normal. ONE bout of above normal oil consumption that began with that particular oil change should NOT be used to condemn an engine OR a dealership.
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Excellent point! It is exactly, EXACTLY the point in nearly ALL the warranty issues such as Jordan Kaptan's problem in Greece. His new 2018 People S 150 ABS has an engine start problem and an unexplained engine failure problem. The dealer has been stringing him along for months. The importer is now bringing up the number of miles on the bike as a disqualifier for warranty. Kymco global only knows what the dealer and the importer tells them so they propose sending a new ECU for installation at the end of May! Boils down to the dealer tech is the "expert" and the customer is at the mercy of a man who just can't be bothered.
Maybe Kymco is terrible and different than any car company. But manufacturers have procedures in place that don’t simply take a dealer at his word. They ask us for documentation. They want repeat customers. And they know that unhappy customers TALK and don’t buy their products again. If a customer goes over our heads, they make us go through a process, so we can DOCUMENT to the customer that there is or is not a problem.
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I don't know if this is the case with your bike, but one person earlier in this thread brought up the idea that manufacturers use the same dipstick for multiple models, and that "full" for your machine may or may not read as full on the dipstick. I just wanted to circle back to this because on my UXV 450i, when I received it brand new from the dealer about six weeks ago, the oil level on the dipstick was right in the middle of the acceptable range on the dipstick - not low, not high.
This past weekend, I did the first oil change. After refilling the engine with the amount of oil recommended in the owner's manual (2.5 quarts), guess where the oil level is on the dipstick? That's right; right in the middle of the run range. So, I would not see any reason to "top it off" by adding a little more oil, and I wonder if the engine would consume oil if I did until it returned to the current level.
At any rate, just thought I would share this, because I think the suggestion someone else gave regarding draining the oil, filling to exact manual specs and then monitoring is a good one. You may have already done that, but perhaps this will be helpful for someone else down the line. At any rate, I wish you the best of luck with your machine and hope you get your problem resolved soon.
Thank you for that suggestion!
We did talk about that earlier on this thread. I said i don't really think that that's the case because, first of all, i did check the oil level a couple of times before the first service and it was perfectly fixed on the higher level on the dipstick.
Second of all, the oil level on the dipstick went down almost all the way, so it was well below the halfpoint. And i don't find it likely that that's normal because how would i know then if the oil pressure is dangerously low? there would be no way to tell. other then when the oil/engine light goes on i guess. doesn't seem reasonable anyway.
Stig - I did check the manual of course, and it says there that the dipstick should "rest" on the lip without any screwing.
So i really don't think that the way i'm checking oil, or the way in which the oil pressure shows on the dipstick are the issues here.
KymcoRockr - Well, right know i'm really just hoping for any response from them. Which in itself is highly unlikely as i understand.
If they decide to stand behind the dealer, and call that "natural consumption", fine. They'll at least give me a certain limit for the consumption, and that would be a closer to this story.
if they decide to be honest, and tell me i'm right, all the better.
But even though i really hope i get a response, i don't believe i will.
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Thank you for that suggestion!
We did talk about that earlier on this thread. I said i don't really think that that's the case because, first of all, i did check the oil level a couple of times before the first service and it was perfectly fixed on the higher level on the dipstick.
Second of all, the oil level on the dipstick went down almost all the way, so it was well below the halfpoint. And i don't find it likely that that's normal because how would i know then if the oil pressure is dangerously low? there would be no way to tell. other then when the oil/engine light goes on i guess. doesn't seem reasonable anyway.
Stig - I did check the manual of course, and it says there that the dipstick should "rest" on the lip without any screwing.
So i really don't think that the way i'm checking oil, or the way in which the oil pressure shows on the dipstick are the issues here.
KymcoRockr - Well, right know i'm really just hoping for any response from them. Which in itself is highly unlikely as i understand.
If they decide to stand behind the dealer, and call that "natural consumption", fine. They'll at least give me a certain limit for the consumption, and that would be a closer to this story.
if they decide to be honest, and tell me i'm right, all the better.
But even though i really hope i get a response, i don't believe i will.
The key to all of this is that the consumption did not start until the oil change. As I suggested earlier, I believe that’s the key to the entire issue. I wouldn’t mention ANYTHING to either Kymco or the dealer again until I changed the oil with EXACTLY what they recommend for your operating conditions , drive it normally and see what happens.
Nothing changed between the first oil change and now except the oil. Dump it and start over before making even one more move. Before one more ounce of worry, before getting upset in the least at Kymco. It’s even possible that the dealer himself believes that the consumption will level off and is an aberration. But he won’t commit to saying that. He likely believes that you’ll be pleasantly surprised as the engine breaks in further. Some engines simply take longer than others. That’s all. I may be wrong. But I think we both hope I’m not. [emoji23][emoji1479]
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Maybe Kymco is terrible and different than any car company. But manufacturers have procedures in place that don’t simply take a dealer at his word. They ask us for documentation. They want repeat customers. And they know that unhappy customers TALK and don’t buy their products again. If a customer goes over our heads, they make us go through a process, so we can DOCUMENT to the customer that there is or is not a problem.
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Forbes, I love you as a good brother should and trust you as your word is sound like spiritual law. You are experienced with Ford and you have related details about their process that I was unaware. It sounds earnest and professional as it should be. I think Kymco is great as a manufacturer but their marketing and tech support are mysteries beyond common sense. Personally, I think they care not beyond the sale unlike you have described. I have even heard encouraging stories about GM auto tech services this week-end! I do think Kymco is eager to throw warranty parts until a problem goes away and this works if a component fails. But is ineffective if the problem is in the wiring or its connectors. Then old fashioned detective work is needed and NONE of the scooter techs are qualified to bring you coffee! Let alone track a cable fault!
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........................But manufacturers have procedures in place that don’t simply take a dealer at his word. They ask us for documentation. They want repeat customers. And they know that unhappy customers TALK and don’t buy their products again. If a customer goes over our heads, they make us go through a process, so we can DOCUMENT to the customer that there is or is not a problem.
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This might be applicable to Ford in the USA, but in South Africa Ford quite recently hit the brand's name with a plank by selling cars which caught fire due to overheating problems. These car's have never been tested properly, and at least one owner has burnt to death due to overheating problems.
Ford initially denied having problems with these cars, but eventually recalled 4556 of these cars to change some components which caused problems:
https://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Industry_News/owners-of-other-ford-models-join-complaints-over-burning-vehicles-20170119 (https://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Industry_News/owners-of-other-ford-models-join-complaints-over-burning-vehicles-20170119)
As far as I know some court cases against Ford are still pending in South Africa.
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This might be applicable to Ford in the USA, but in South Africa Ford quite recently hit the brand's name with a plank by selling cars which caught fire due to overheating problems. These car's have never been tested properly, and at least one owner has burnt to death due to overheating problems.
Ford initially denied having problems with these cars, but eventually recalled 4556 of these cars to change some components which caused problems:
https://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Industry_News/owners-of-other-ford-models-join-complaints-over-burning-vehicles-20170119 (https://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Industry_News/owners-of-other-ford-models-join-complaints-over-burning-vehicles-20170119)
As far as I know some court cases against Ford are still pending in South Africa.
We have the same recall. Safety Recalls fall into a different category. Before the recall, Ford had us to replace the entire engine when they overheated in that particular vehicle instead or repairing them. For the recall, they had us to alter the cooling system so it would purge trapped air better, add a coolant level sensor, and reprogram the engine so it would enter the engine protection strategy at a lower temperature. They also had us to closely inspect the engine for coolant leaks. The problem occurred in the event of a cracked head leaking coolant onto the turbo. (Antifreeze is flammable at super high temps). I agree, they SHOULD have performed the fix as soon as they discovered the problem instead of initially denying it.
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Second of all, the oil level on the dipstick went down almost all the way, so it was well below the halfpoint. And i don't find it likely that that's normal because how would i know then if the oil pressure is dangerously low? there would be no way to tell. other then when the oil/engine light goes on i guess. doesn't seem reasonable anyway.
Without knowing if it's normal, it's hard to say if it's normal or not. But by draining the oil and filling it with the right amount, you will know how things are, and not think about how things might be. You would have to lose a lot more oil before the oil pressure was dangerously low. You wouldn't see it on the dipstick at all.
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Without knowing if it's normal, it's hard to say if it's normal or not. But by draining the oil and filling it with the right amount, you will know how things are, and not think about how things might be. You would have to lose a lot more oil before the oil pressure was dangerously low. You wouldn't see it on the dipstick at all.
Exactly. I say the sooner the better in order to know for certain ASAP
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