KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Emil on September 01, 2010, 10:21:31 PM
-
Hello,
I just wanted to share this with you.
About a month ago I contacted Kymco and asked them if their warranty would cover my squeaking front brake. Thought I would ask them directly because I don't really trust my dealer. And this was the answer:
Generally this type issue is not covered under the warranty program. It is normally caused by excessive heat buildup in the brakes from improper usage like holding the brakes while riding or other harsh usage.
So they right away accused me of abusing the scooter. And I mean, which idiot holds the brake while riding?
Then I wrote again, basically telling them that I did not abuse the scooter (assuming that using the brakes is not abuse) and received this answer:
You may have your unit checked, and we will gladly consider more details if they can be given by the dealer. However, keep in mind that this repair is not likely to be covered under the warranty program and that you most likely will be billed for the charges.
What can I say - maybe something like use the warranty as toilet paper?
Well, for sure don't think the warranty will cover anything because it will all be blamed on "improper usage".
-Emil
-
Squeeky brakes are kinda common,a quik clean with some brake cleaner is a tipical maintanince deal some times a rock or something can get stuck in there. Give it a good look, If it is some thing else take it in and have them give you an opinion, my local shop would have a mechanic give it a look for free If it was a defect they should replace it under waranty. But not all shops are the same. Some of the brake material is prone to squeek more than others metel flake in the pads.
If your shop is half decent the should look at it for free. If they want repeate bussiness ;)
-
I once brought the scooter to my dealer for a general check and also asked them to have a look at the brake. They ended up not looking at the brake, in fact I don't think they did more than checking the air filter and changing the engine oil (what I asked them not to do). And gone where $90 bucks.
Also I don't think that it's dirt that's causing the squeak. First I would say that the squeak would disappear when the dirt wears off and also I can see that there is not enough distance between the disk and the brake pads. When I turn the wheel with my hand I can hear the pads grinding on the disk. Maybe this could help? http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/Anit-Squeal-Brake-Shims-Pack-of-4/2498 (http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/Anit-Squeal-Brake-Shims-Pack-of-4/2498).
Surely I will replace the pads soon and clean what can be cleaned. Maybe sanding the disk with with very fine sand paper...?
-
Usually a cleaning is good to go with some brake cleaner,a light sanding can't hurt either(could be a metel shaving at the serface). Thats not cool about your shop got a reciept take it back and ask. A good machanic can look at and pull the brake lever in a second a tell ya what it needs in most cases. I would look for another shop if thay don't do that for ya.
-
..we hear so many shop horror stories..sound like you're in the middle of a nightmare emil..
..if you can hear "grinding", then there is a PROBLEM!!!
-
Hello,
I just wanted to share this with you.
About a month ago I contacted Kymco and asked them if their warranty would cover my squeaking front brake. Thought I would ask them directly because I don't really trust my dealer. And this was the answer:
Generally this type issue is not covered under the warranty program. It is normally caused by excessive heat buildup in the brakes from improper usage like holding the brakes while riding or other harsh usage.
So they right away accused me of abusing the scooter. And I mean, which idiot holds the brake while riding?
Then I wrote again, basically telling them that I did not abuse the scooter (assuming that using the brakes is not abuse) and received this answer:
You may have your unit checked, and we will gladly consider more details if they can be given by the dealer. However, keep in mind that this repair is not likely to be covered under the warranty program and that you most likely will be billed for the charges.
What can I say - maybe something like use the warranty as toilet paper?
Well, for sure don't think the warranty will cover anything because it will all be blamed on "improper usage".
-Emil
To fully understand their response you should comprehend how silly it sounds to somebody who is involved with scooter sales to deal with complaints about "squeaky brake".
Similar situation to this would be complaining to fridge manufacturer because the motor causes noise when the temperature drops.
Change the pads and it will not produce the noise anymore or learn to live with it until they are worn out. :)
p.s. In small print of most car/scooter/bike manuals, if you read them carefully, you will find that noises are NOT covered by warranty. Just bought a car recently and it is also written for that particular car too.
-
Yeah, squeaky brakes are not a warranty issue. Though annoying if you have pad it should not be an issue. Cleaning usually helps and in some cases I have had to take the pads out clean them and when I put them back in I use some anti squeak brake compound on the back of the pads. This basically sticks them to the caliper or piston and keeps them from vibrating when you first put the bakes on. A common cause of the noise in disk brakes. You can get the compound from Autozone or any auto parts store. Usually a dollar for a small packet that will do several wheels.
-
Yeah, squeaky brakes are not a warranty issue. Though annoying if you have pad it should not be an issue. Cleaning usually helps and in some cases I have had to take the pads out clean them and when I put them back in I use some anti squeak brake compound on the back of the pads. This basically sticks them to the caliper or piston and keeps them from vibrating when you first put the bakes on. A common cause of the noise in disk brakes. You can get the compound from Autozone or any auto parts store. Usually a dollar for a small packet that will do several wheels.
In 99 % the annoying sound goes away by itself as the pads wear out. Usually the culprit is a small embedded particle inside one of the pads that causes interesting sound effects.
-
Sorry to say that, but the sample with the fridge is bullsh** ;). I am not hearing such squeaking brakes anywhere in the road (ok, occasionally from some 20yrs old wreck on wheels). If your scooter or car would constantly squeak so that people 150yards away can hear it you would also rather run to the dealer than spending $35 bucks on new pads and a couple of hours trying to track the problem down.
Well, maybe I was not clear enough. The noise is constantly there - sometimes worse, sometimes not too loud, but always annoying. Even with a helmet over the ears. It started after the first couple of hundred kilometers and it has not disappeared over the last 5000 kilometers. And as I said, when I spin the wheel (without holding the brakes) I can hear the pads grinding on the disk. It also applies some friction, funny though it doesn't seem to be enough to heat the disk up.
-
..something's not right...
..i hears nothing when i spin the front wheel of either of my scoots....
-
I've heard such noise from a number of my vehicles, especially in the past. It seems that pad formula has changed in the past decade, it was much more usual in 90s and probably before. I know that they do not use asbestos anymore.
Guys gave you several advices here.
I will add one more, the solution to your problem is five bucks away: http://www.getgeared.co.uk/PROCYCLE_Copper_Paste_100ml (http://www.getgeared.co.uk/PROCYCLE_Copper_Paste_100ml)
-
G'day Emil, I realise this doesn't help with your problem but, last year I bought a Suzuki GS500 new, during looking at these bikes on the net, about the only problem that I found was a tendency for the rear brake to squeal, after buying the bike, I found that the rear brake did squeal after only a few hundred kilometres. When I took the bike back for the 1,000 km service I spoke to the service manager and he asked "was that under light braking?". When I picked the bike up I noticed the squeal was gone, for a short time, but it is back. I think it might just be the materials used in brake pads now, combined with light usage. If your braking is only light most of the time you might be able to try a different pad. Having spoken to a local brake shop about brake pads, the bloke told me that Bendix pads were not suited to our local area in a car because we don't have hard enough braking conditions to get the rotors up to a high enough temperature to bed those particular pads in properly, our area is not hilly and we don't have bad traffic congestion like in major cities.
-
And as I said, when I spin the wheel (without holding the brakes) I can hear the pads grinding on the disk. It also applies some friction
..a "slight" rubbing sound should draw no concern...but a obvious "grind" to the point that it stops your wheel is not really normal....
....hope it's not a wheel bearing that you hear grinding....
-
..one man's grind is another man's rub...
..that's what SHE said, anyway.....
-
PMSL:)
-
and also I can see that there is not enough distance between the disk and the brake pads. When I turn the wheel with my hand I can hear the pads grinding on the disk.
There it is! Do your brakes actually "squeak" Emil? Mine DO NOT squeak. I do have this GRINDING noise though, and after my brakes were adjusted for more distance between the disk and the pads they actually seem to have adjusted themselves right back to that very tight position after about 7 miles. If yours are not making that squealing type of sound, I believe this problem should be covered under warranty, whatever it turns out to be. This does not sound like "Brake Squeal" to me. Squeaking or squealing brakes is a very distinctive type of noise, once you hear it you are not likely to forget it.
Is this a WHEEL problem or a BRAKE problem?
Do your brakes make noise when you use them? Mine do not - in fact all the grinding noise stops when I use the brakes.
It could probably make problems for the brakes, and other things, if not fixed, though.
Brake squeal may not be covered by warranty, but other issues causing this grinding noise, wheel wobble, etc. may be covered.
>>Still pondering wheel bearings, steering bearings, etc. :-\
-
Rianna, the brake pads do lightly brush tgpe disc, if you had the caliper expanded to pull the pads away from the disc, the first time you used them there would have been more travel in the lever to push the pads back to the correct position. If that stopped the noise then replace the pads and you should be fine.
-
NO, sid, it did not stop the noise. But, honestly, there is NO noise when I use the brakes. It's when it's rolling, not stopping. Grinding and bouncing/wobbling. :-\
Thanks, though. :)
-
Bouncing and wobbling, I would be looking at wheel bearings.
-
Thanks, sid. That's what I'm thinking about, too. I can't figure out where to get them local yet. I'm still looking, may have to order them online and pay for shipping. Don't want to, though.
What we were talking about before, though. There is no space at all between the pads and the disc. You could not even slide a piece of paper between them. You could after the adjustment, before I rode the 7 miles, though. I don't know why.
-
Yes, that is normal, just as long as there is no excessive drag on the scoot. It can still be pushed easily? For your own peace of mind, go to a bike shop and have a look at some new ones, if possible, speak to someone who works on bikes and see if they can go over some of these things with you with a bike on hand.
-
When I push it (the scoot, not the brake) you can hear the noise as well
That is a good idea, sid. If I lived closer to one, I probably would do just that. Now I know why people buy 2 scoots, or keep their first one for a backup when they upgrade. Ha! I'll probably just end up taking it apart and inspecting things, one at a time. (Then kick and scream when I can't figure out how to put it all back, lol.) From what I've been reading though, it does sound like it could be bearings.
-
Is there no bike shop in your area? my suzuki boulevard has a more metalic sound from the front brake than the others, but I put that down to pad composition, although, they are due for replacement.
-
Yes, there is one here, I just don't have a car, lol.
I still keep thinking, though, sid, that if my brakes were the problem I would hear noise when I pressed the brake lever, but I don't. You still think it could be just the pads?
Folks can hear that dreadful grinding noise from several car lengths away, when I'm coming up the road. They know when I'm coming their direction.
-
It sounds to me like your calipers are malfunctioning , sticking or not returning to the proper position when disengaged . Just a thought . Good luck .
-
Thanks, juice.
-
But this scoot has less than 1,000 kms.?
-
It has 681 kilometers, sid. :(
-
]
What can I say - maybe something like use the warranty as toilet paper?
Well, for sure don't think the warranty will cover anything because it will all be blamed on "improper usage".
-Emil
that about it too use the warranty for ass whip.
[/quote]
-
Unfortunatly the front wheel and brake assembly is often a dealer installation often performed by teenagers or poorly paid and inexperienced underlings . Scooters are not a high profit or high priority job in a lot of dealerships . At least with Kymco once the kinks are worked out they are very reliable and dependible , in my limited experience anyway .
-
Very good points juice, I just wish we could get Rianna's scoot up to par so she can have some faith in it.
-
This video is a very interesting and informative insight into the dealer prep for a scooter , 50cc Dealer Prep (http://vimeo.com/2575002)
Even though in is not a Kymco scooter .
-
I wish I could see it, juice. I don't have video or speakers on this computer.
-
What Rianna - your computer doesn't have video? You have to install the Flash Plugin http://www.adobe.com/go/getflash/ (http://www.adobe.com/go/getflash/).
As for the squeaking/squealing (is there a difference?) I have solved it myself in the meanwhile.
- Took off the brake
- Removed the pad pins and the pads
- Cleaned with a rag and some brake cleaning fluid, especially around the pistons
- cleaned the pads well with break cleaner and a metal brush
- sanded the disk a little with very fine sandpaper
- put that red anti squeak compound on the back of the pads
- lubricated the pins and a little around the pistons with graphite lubricant
...Squeaking gone for the last maybe 300km and through a couple of rain showers.
When I turn the wheel slowly now I can still hear the pads against the disk, but only very little; and when I ride it doesn't turn into a nerve grinding endless sqeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaak.
Yippee!
-Emil
-
Oh, so it was always a squeak? Just "grinded" your nerves? I guess I was confused. (Wish mine only squeaked. :D) I'm glad you got it fixed! Way to go, Emil!!!
Nope, no video, no speakers either. :o And yeah, I know about the adobe stuff, just not supposed to have it on "this" computer...long story. I have 4 computers within 6 feet from me and the fast one that is all set up for video stuff is the only one not working right now. (That's my luck.) My whole life needs modded and fixed, lol. One of these days, I'll have to take the time to yank the speakers and video card from that one and tinker with settings and put it all on another one. :)
My son SAYS I can use his 'puter (5th one, lol) but he's never home. :D
Yayyyy, Emil is Squeak-Free!!!!!
-
Too bad, that with the computer. Although I don't understand why you can't use your son's computer when he's not home. I'd always have admin access to the computers of my kids (and would probably run a key logger as well, lol)
The grinding by the way was a real grinding when I turned the wheel slowly but became a squeak when the wheel turned fast and that squeak grinded my nerves, and the nerves slowly turned me nuts.
Hope it's less confusing now,
Emil
-
..emil, riannas son is a grown man...lol..
..rianna, you must use that pc for work, i'd reckon...
-
The grinding by the way was a real grinding when I turned the wheel slowly but became a squeak when the wheel turned fast and that squeak grinded my nerves, and the nerves slowly turned me nuts.
..whatyu smokin' E?..lol..
..that's deeep....
-
Ahhh...I see now, Emil. Mine makes only that grinding noise, going slow and fast. Oh how I wish it was only a squeal or a squeak! Thank you for sharing your solution, though! :)
OH, and yes, my son is about to turn 18 and his is a laptop so he carries it with him. We didn't even have computers when I was 18! :D
And, yes, wordslinger. It's crazy, but different computers for different purposes. It probably made sense at some point. Now it's a mess I'd like to consolidate one day.
-
Ah - already 18. I had my first computer when I was 23 or so. Anyway, I am sure he will be glad to make one nice computer for you out of the 4 crappy ones that are standing around now. I mean Christmas is nearing and so.. maybe he will even get you a new one!? Then you would have 6 computers at home!
And do the brake cleaning etc as I did. I am sure the grinding will disappear.
-
Thanks, Emil! :)
-
check your rotor it may be worped and that will give a grinding sound when wheels are rolling. this is due to the pads moving on and off the rotor. this should be covered by worranty . as it is manufactures part defect.
-
Thank you, babecycle. That rotor could be slightly warped. It looks good, but could still be off a bit and I just can't tell from looking. I can't get the axle nut off to have a better look at it. The last time I had it out the front end seemed very loose and went crazy when I hit the front brake. Similar to trying to ride with a flat tire, but, other than the fact that I don't like it, the tire looks fine. :-\ It ticked me off so I brought it back up the road and parked it.
This is my fault because I bought the 2007 with no warranty. I should have waited and saved another year or two to buy a new one with a warranty. Live and learn, I suppose.
-
Don't get disheartened too soon.
-
Thank you, sid! :)
I won't give up so easy, but I've learned when I get angry I must set things aside and take a break.
-
I wish I lived closer. I'd be glad to turn some wrenches with you.
-
That's a very good philosophy Rianna . I have to do that also . Unfortunatly I am very ham-handed as well as impatient . Everything on scooters seem so tiny and hard to reach for me . I frequently end up breaking something else as well as not being able to fix the original problem , but im sure you have nimble lady fingers and with practice you will be an ace mechanic . Hang in there .
-
Exactly, juice! My impatience will get the best of me if I let it. I've learned this lesson the hard way. If I try to do something when I'm angry I'll just end up throwing something I shouldn't or breaking something and creating more of a mess than I had to start with. I'm glad I'm not the only one. lol. Thanks for the encouragement. :)
-
I wish I lived closer. I'd be glad to turn some wrenches with you.
Thanks, pedro! I'm hoping it will be nice and cooperate with me if I stop cussin' at it for a day or two. :D
-
The front brake on my people has sometimes squeeled under light to moderate braking since about 100km now with about 3000km it still does it sometimes. Kind of annoying but tolerable. I find it much more annoying when it does it all the time your not braking like that. I never complained to the dealer because I know they wouldnt have done anything. Don't get me started with them >:(.
-
Sorry to hear about your brakes, Peters. I hear ya about the dealer. I have read on here in a couple of places about some stuff you can get at the auto parts store for like a dollar or two to smear on the backs of your pads to lessen the vibration and cut down on the squeal. I think it comes in a little envelope or pouch like that gel stuff they sell ya when you put a new set of spark plug wires on your car. I guess with a squeal you at least know what it is and can just keep on rolling, but it is annoying.
-
Yea I know what your talking about. Brake lube good stuff. I always put it on car and truck brakes. Its not bad enough for me to tear apart the caliper yet. Its actually doing it less frequently now that I think about it. Eventually the pads will wear out and I will address it then.
Speaking of brakes is there any options on the pads up front or are we stuck with the stock ones? I would like to find some ceramic ones when it comes that time. I have found ceramic brakes pads to produce much less noise and dust. Not to mention they last longer too.
-
Ceramic pads destroy rotors. I never use them, even when supplied from the factory.
-
Wow, I didn't know that about ceramic pads. I do see pads on eBay all the time for about $10 less than the OEMs. They "say" they're compatible. Someone else will probably know more than me what options we have, if any.
-
I think you are talking too much. Cleaning the brake and adding the paste will take about an hour (the first time) and I am sure it will help if the disk isn't out of shape, calipers damaged or so. Here - this is the stuff you can buy in your local Autozone store:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accProductDetails.jsp?itemIdentifier=348169_0_0_&skuDescription=CRC+/+4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&brandName=CRC&displayName=4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&skuDisplayName=CRC&categoryNValue=10199999&navValue=101389&categoryDisplayName=4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&parentId=01-10&itemId=1389-10&store=5114&productId=348169
(http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accProductDetails.jsp?itemIdentifier=348169_0_0_&skuDescription=CRC+/+4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&brandName=CRC&displayName=4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&skuDisplayName=CRC&categoryNValue=10199999&navValue=101389&categoryDisplayName=4oz.%28118.294ml.%29hightemperaturediscbrakequiet&parentId=01-10&itemId=1389-10&store=5114&productId=348169) I think they also sell it in little bags for a dollar or so. That would be enough for one time.
If you want new pads for your Agility, you can try these ones:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5/37/449/11048/DPITEM/Scooter-Brake-Pads-EBC-Double-H-Sintered-Brake-Pads.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5/37/449/11048/DPITEM/Scooter-Brake-Pads-EBC-Double-H-Sintered-Brake-Pads.aspx)
So tomorrow, go get the paste and brake cleaner, grab the tool box and the gloves - and off to the garage (or the drive way or the shed or whatever)
Good Luck,
Emil
-
I think you are talking too much. Cleaning the brake and adding the paste will take about an hour (the first time) and I am sure it will help if the disk isn't out of shape, calipers damaged or so.
Dude not my first time doing brakes. I doubt it would take an hour. The rotor is not warped or scored. Just putting it in there that my brand new people does it. I don't think this is anything but poor assembly or just cheap OEM pads. I say "If it ain't broke don't fix it".