KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: jacobml9 on November 28, 2018, 07:16:23 PM
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So I am a college student and I am using my 2018 Agility 50 to get to and from classes. I am losing power after about 1/2 throttle and it seems as if I get ideal power in about 1/4 throttle. It also seems to have trouble holding the rev as it revs up right when I pull the throttle then drops down and I can't get much more power out of it. It is hilly and cold here at times but I don't know if that is a huge factor. It has 1050 KM on it and it is garage kept. What could be wrong?
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Vacuum leak maybe. Main jet partially clogged, trash in float bowl. What have you checked so far?
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Vacuum leak maybe. Main jet partially clogged, trash in float bowl. What have you checked so far?
I haven't checked anything. It is still under warranty so I don't want to void the warranty. I called the shop I bought it from and they said they didn't know so I figured I would ask in here so that way when I bring it back to the shop I can tell them some things to check for. Is there an easy way to check some of the things you listed?
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Best to listen to what they say and what they don't say to get a feel for how reliable their procedures are. This is anew bike still on warranty but something is definitely wrong with it. I started with the same model if yours has a carburetor. The thing was a pain to start when it was cold but always ran consistently once running. Where are you?
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Best to listen to what they say and what they don't say to get a feel for how reliable their procedures are. This is anew bike still on warranty but something is definitely wrong with it. I started with the same model if yours has a carburetor. The thing was a pain to start when it was cold but always ran consistently once running. Where are you?
Yeah the thing is pretty hard to start in the cold but it still has trouble with keeping power once I start it. I am in the mountains of Southwest Virginia. Yeah it has a carburetor.
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Describe, please, the dealer you bought this from. There is a purpose to this question that is why I am being mystical...
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How far away is your dealer?
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Vacuum leak maybe. Main jet partially clogged, trash in float bowl. What have you checked so far?
Calm down! It's a new scooter! Try to be helpful.
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I passed some comments regarding valve clearance adjusments elsewhere earlier this week, and I am a bit hessitant to pass more comments here. People might start thinking the only thing I can think of is “valve clearance problemsâ€.
But yes - if the problem can’t be detected easily one of the things that should be checked is the valve clearance gap at your engine.
Somebody at the forum mentioned that the valve clearance gap on 50cc engines is only 0.01mm. A gap that small is almost non existant. I think the manufacturer tries to sqeek as much power possible from a 50cc engine by using such a small gap to get a higher lift at the valves.
In theory a higher lift means the engine will breathe better, and generate more engine power.
In real life a small clearance gap like that needs very special care during adjustments, because the slightest of slight mistakes can easily cause a “no gap at all†situation - which can cause strange engine behaviour, and even burnt valves in the longer term.
I’ve mentioned this before - these engines get manufactured in very large numbers each year. There is no guarrantee that all gap clearances will be correct on all engines when it come from the factory.
In short - if you can’t find the problem elsewhere, get your valve clearances checked properly.
Simply because in a O.01 setup, the slightest of slight mistakes can easily means there might be no valve clearance gap at all.
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You, scooterfan, harping on valves is right on the money! Too many, including me, tend to forget that as a possibility. A recent post had a bike that started well and ran well and then would run poorly when warmed. Think also would not start when up to temp. That was a zero lash problem. All was well when the owner set the valves at .004"/.1 mm. Fortunately, he did not burn an exhaust valve.
"In short - if you can’t find the problem elsewhere, get your valve clearances checked properly.
Simply because in a O.01 setup, the slightest of slight mistakes can easily means there might be no valve clearance gap at all." Had to butt in on this! .01 mm has to be one of Kymco's errors. I saw .012 somewhere on the Like, I think. The track record for all the Kymcos we have had has been .004"/.1 mm. Anyway, this is one of the information gaps Kymco USA has ignored since I have been with them.
You harp on valves, I will harp on vent valves/venting gas caps, others can harp on batteries and pretty soon we will have a logical procedure! Light control modules, EMI filters, etc.....
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You, scooterfan, harping on valves is right on the money! Too many, including me, tend to forget that as a possibility.
If it was’nt for a couple of year’s experience at work before I retired, I would never know.
At certain engines (specially diesel) it became standard practice to check valve clearances on brand new engines. Specially if the engines came from a certain part of the world....
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Too darn much confusing info being presented here. Lots of conflicting info if you search the forum. Often, cause of problem is not understanding whether the info is is inches or millimeters.
I just looked up the service manual for Agility 50 on the Googler. Kymco service manual published valve lash is .04mm. That is .0015in. Have fun adjusting that! Doesn't seem right.
Google up the manual for the Super 8. Same engine, right? Published valve clearance is .08mm That is .003 inch.
Typical valve lash for the GY6 type engines is .004 inch.
Check with your dealer. I'm sure that they adjust them at 3-4 thousands of an inch.
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I just looked up the service manual for Agility 50 on the Googler. Kymco service manual published valve lash is .04mm. That is .0015in. Have fun adjusting that! Doesn't seem right.
Typical valve lash for the GY6 type engines is .004 inch.
Check with your dealer. I'm sure that they adjust them at 3-4 thousands of an inch.
Spot on. Adjusting clearances with a lash of even exactlly .o4 / 0015in. is no fun at all. I will be very surprized if well trained staff at the factury - who are involved in mass producition, have sufficient time to spent on close tollerances like that.
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if the problem can’t be detected easily one of the things that should be checked is the valve clearance gap at your engine.
Give the guy a break! It's a new scooter, and he didn't say "the problem can’t be detected easily". THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID. He said it doesn't seem to have much power. There's no need to check the valve clearance (which will cost $100+ to do) on a new machine. Calm down! You guys will make everybody nuts (including the dealer) with all your hare-brain ideas.
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Give the guy a break! It's a new scooter, and he didn't say "the problem can’t be detected easily". THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID. He said it doesn't seem to have much power. There's no need to check the valve clearance (which will cost $100+ to do) on a new machine. Calm down! You guys will make everybody nuts (including the dealer) with all your hare-brain ideas.
Typical comments from somebody with no mechanical knowledge and no mechanical experience.
Just have a look at some comments by another owner who reported his experience with his NEW 200cc scooter:
1. Valve adjustments have been made by the dealer after 200 miles on the scooter.
2. The valves clearances have been checked by the dealer at 800 miles AGAIN.
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=27425.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=27425.0)
Take note - this is a NEW scooter ! For what reason do you think the dealer bothered to “fiddle†with valve clearances at 200 miles on a new scooter ? They even checked the valve clearances AGAIN at 800 miles !
Please calm down. Are you a salesman ?
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Wow, didn't expect to get this much information. The dealer is 3 hours away but I am bringing it home anyway because I will be home for 6 weeks. I was just looking for a few suggestions on something to tell the guys at the dealership. I didn't want to dive deep into the engine due to potentially voiding my warranty and also because I do not have a strong mechanical background. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
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Hey, Jake! We live for this! Keep us posted on what happens, what the dealer says and does and progress(if any) the dealer makes. He has until warm weather to fix this!
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Just an update:
I dropped it off at the shop and they said it could be a couple of things:
-Clogged fuel pump/fuel line
-Vacuum leak
-Something clogged
-Bad gas
Now I doubt it is bad gas because and I think he just said that because my Kymco warranty doesn't cover that. I will be calling this weekend to get a progress report and will post more information once I have it.
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Final update: We replaced the carb and it is running much better.
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Thanks for the update.
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Final update: We replaced the carb and it is running much better.
Wow. you mean after only 1050 km the carb had to be replaced ? Do you know what was wrong with the original carb ?
Please keep us posted about your experience with the new carb.
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Dealer threw parts at the problem...
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So after riding it for a few weeks with the new carb, it isn't running ideally. It is running better than the previous carb so I am pleased with that. But now I am wondering if I need to jet the carb for a higher altitude. I am about 1700 ft above sea level from where I purchased the scooter.
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So after riding it for a few weeks with the new carb, it isn't running ideally. It is running better than the previous carb so I am pleased with that. But now I am wondering if I need to jet the carb for a higher altitude. I am about 1700 ft above sea level from where I purchased the scooter.
I believe that Agility carburetors are CVK style which seem to adapt well to altitude changes without jet modifications. Where do you live?
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I believe that Agility carburetors are CVK style which seem to adapt well to altitude changes without jet modifications. Where do you live?
I am located in Blacksburg, VA. I am a college student and it just isn't running at full capacity like I want it to. I turn it on every mornin and let it warm up but after a few minutes they engine just cuts out and I have difficulty getting it started again.
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I am located in Blacksburg, VA. I am a college student and it just isn't running at full capacity like I want it to. I turn it on every mornin and let it warm up but after a few minutes they engine just cuts out and I have difficulty getting it started again.
When it's cold out and you start the scooter it should idle pretty fast until it warms up. When it's warm, the idle should slow down to normal. At least that's what most carbureted scooters with properly functioning bystarters do. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, anyone.
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When it's cold out and you start the scooter it should idle pretty fast until it warms up. When it's warm, the idle should slow down to normal. At least that's what most carbureted scooters with properly functioning bystarters do. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, anyone.
Okay that sounds about right but after a while mine will just turn off.
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Once the bystarter finishes then the idle jet circuit should take over. Probably the idle needle needs adjusting, something the dealer tech should have done with a replacement carb. No matter, you can do it. Let us know if you want to try.
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Once the bystarter finishes then the idle jet circuit should take over. Probably the idle needle needs adjusting, something the dealer tech should have done with a replacement carb. No matter, you can do it. Let us know if you want to try.
I would agree. This is the most logical next step. It's pretty much just a matter of locating the adjustment screw and turning it incrementally one direction or the other.
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On the other hand, the adjustment screw might not have the traditional slotted head for a flat blade screwdriver. Some of these things have the D-shaped head and require a special socket (and these are not all the same size), so it CAN get more complicated than you'd imagine.
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I would agree. This is the most logical next step. It's pretty much just a matter of locating the adjustment screw and turning it incrementally one direction or the other.
I don't mean to be awkward, but isn't the idle jet fixed? If we're talking about adjusting the tickover with the screw, I think that's a good first step.
I worked a few years importing Chinese scooters into the UK - not a few, tens of thousands. It was very surpising how many arrived from the factory with the valves set too tight, making them a bit finnicky when they warmed up.
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I don't mean to be awkward, but isn't the idle jet fixed? If we're talking about adjusting the tickover with the screw, I think that's a good first step.
I worked a few years importing Chinese scooters into the UK - not a few, tens of thousands. It was very surpising how many arrived from the factory with the valves set too tight, making them a bit finnicky when they warmed up.
Technically speaking, Kymco refers to 2 fuel jets on the Agility 50 carb - the main jet and the slow jet. What we're referring to in this discussion as the "idle jet" is called by Kymco the slow jet. And it has an adjustment screw #16154 which Kymco confusingly refers to as "screw idel adjust".
Now "tickover" is not a term I am familiar with. Help me out with that one please.
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Technically speaking, Kymco refers to 2 fuel jets on the Agility 50 carb - the main jet and the slow jet. What we're referring to in this discussion as the "idle jet" is called by Kymco the slow jet. And it has an adjustment screw #16154 which Kymco confusingly refers to as "screw idel adjust".
Now "tickover" is not a term I am familiar with. Help me out with that one please.
Tickover is the idle speed. Yeah, we're talking about all the same stuff - I just got confused by the terminology!
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No one has said it yet, so I will! The idle (tickover) jet is fixed. The idle adjustment screw regulates the AIR admitted behind the closed throttle plate. Closed idle screw = no idle air = mixture too rich, engine dies/will not idle. Wide open idle screw = major air admitted, mixture too lean, engine dies/will not idle. 2.5 turns out from LIGHTLY seated idle screw is a universal (since 1920) starting point.
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No one has said it yet, so I will! The idle (tickover) jet is fixed. The idle adjustment screw regulates the AIR admitted behind the closed throttle plate. Closed idle screw = no idle air = mixture too rich, engine dies/will not idle. Wide open idle screw = major air admitted, mixture too lean, engine dies/will not idle. 2.5 turns out from LIGHTLY seated idle screw is a universal (since 1920) starting point.
Hey guys, so when I purchased the scooter the dealer tech did show me where to adjust the idle screw. So I just need to get in there and adjust it. Does anyone have suggestions on which direction I should adjust regarding my problem? To recap, my problem is that after a while of idle it just cuts off. Thanks for the advice.
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Hey Jacob, turn maybe a quarter clockwise, wait for 30 seconds, then repeat, when the idle rises a touch leave it there and keep track of how many turns so you can put it back if it's too much.
If the idle is too high, you may feel the back wheel "tremble" through the rear brake or find it's pulling when it shouldn't be.
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Hey Jacob, turn maybe a quarter clockwise, wait for 30 seconds, then repeat, when the idle rises a touch leave it there and keep track of how many turns so you can put it back if it's too much.
If the idle is too high, you may feel the back wheel "tremble" through the rear brake or find it's pulling when it shouldn't be.
So pretty much just turn it a quarter of the way and once the wheel in the back starts to move I have gone too much. Just wanna make sure I don't screw anything up.
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What Viper is telling you is pick a direction to turn, turn 1/4 revolution in that direction, wait 30 seconds to see if it has any effect, do it again in the same direction and wait to see if there is any change, go no farther than four 1/4 turns if no change! Reset the screw to where it was when you started the adjustment, then go 1/4 turn in the opposite direction, wait to see if there is any change. You SHOULD see some change in this direction if there was no change in the first direction. When the RPM starts to increase, like Viper said, STOP ADJUSTING!
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So pretty much just turn it a quarter of the way and once the wheel in the back starts to move I have gone too much. Just wanna make sure I don't screw anything up.
Jacob, I have found the best way to do this adjustment is to LISTEN CAREFULLY after each after each 1/4 turn of the adjustment screw for any change in engine speed. And while we're on the subject, are you sure about which screw we're recommending you turn. The screw we're speaking of threads into the side of the carb body horizontally. Don't confuse this with the throttle stop screw which is located on a bracket attached to the outside of the carb body and this screw is in a more vertical position (throttle cable attaches to this bracket).
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So pretty much just turn it a quarter of the way and once the wheel in the back starts to move I have gone too much. Just wanna make sure I don't screw anything up.
Pretty much? Slowly does it. If the wheel turns a little, slowly, it's not the end of the world :)
Let us know how you get on.
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Car 54 where are you?
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I lerned the hard way
.Better to fix your self. Dealing with the kymco reps and the warrenty sucks my scoot was in the shop for 6 monthes under warrenty.
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I lerned the hard way
.Better to fix your self. Dealing with the kymco reps and the warrenty sucks my scoot was in the shop for 6 monthes under warrenty.
I agree, Kymco warranty isn't the best... I believe I got it fixed as it is running really good now, it still will turn off at stoplights every once in a while but it isn't as persistent as it used to be. Thanks for all the advice.
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I agree, Kymco warranty isn't the best... I believe I got it fixed as it is running really good now, it still will turn off at stoplights every once in a while but it isn't as persistent as it used to be. Thanks for all the advice.
How did you fix it?
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How did you fix it?
Carb problem:
-I fixed the carb problem by taking it into the dealer and letting them take care of it because I had a warranty. It took them upwards of a month but they did a lot of things to it.
Idle problem:
-I have just been adjusting the idle screw that is right near the carb under the bucket.
Did this answer your question?
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Yes. Too bad you had to be without your ride that long though.