KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => LIKE 200i => Topic started by: Azmark7 on October 17, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
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Hi all
I am pretty new here, mostly just read the great info on here for tips. Am a bit stumped now what to do
Have a 2014 Like 200 with 6300 miles I bought used a year ago. I live in AZ so with the heat I didn't ride much this summer save for starting it once every week or so. This past week been riding daily and have noticed a strong fuel smell in garage but cannot locate any leaks on the ground or in the engine compartment. Added fresh fuel a few days ago. Yesterday on driving came to a stop sign and the bike stalled. could not restart it at all. It would try to turn it over with no success. Got it towed home and charged the battery. Voltage seems fine, voltage on the starter seems fine. The CELP did fire with 6 blinks (voltage?) So am thinking battery dead/dying. But can't explain smell. Will probably go battery but not sure where to go next. I'm not the most mechanical but have read the manual and figured I'd try here too for suggestions. Thanks in advance.
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Open your gas cap and see if it will start. C'mon, give it a try!
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It wasn't sarcasm - you can get vacuum blocks that can cause fuelly smells like what you describe.
It sounds to me like the battery or reg/rec is your most likely culprit. Hopefully it's the battery - cheaper to replace!
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just tried the gas cap trick. no go there. Apologies if i mistook the first response as sarcasm, couldn't tell from the way it was written. :)
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Gas smell from many no-start tries?....in other words 'flooded' for a while?
But gas smell at a later time, and you are in very HOT climate? Has it been over-filled - putting gas into the smog parts?
We had another LIKE with gas showing around the gas cap.....and I still don't understand it.
There's a vent
If still running orig battery - I'd start there ----Keep us posted please. These are normally bullet proof models.
Stig
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Thanks Stig for the reply.
The gas smell came after just normal driving out and about. Upon parking it in the garage i noticed a strong gas smell post driving i never smelled before in previous rides. The only thing I could think of was the gas had sat for some time in the tank over the summer when I almost never drove it.
Yes I live in a very hot climate (Phoenix) and although its garage parked it's still hot in that garage regardless.
I have never over-filled the tank, i always stop when it hits the "bar" below the neck that runs horizontally. Now that you mention it though i noticed a bit of gas around the cap but figured that was shortly after filling the tank. But the smell i noticed was before the fill. Could old gas cause that, i was worried i clogged the injectors?
I have a battery on order now to arrive end of week. The guy i bought the bike off last November of said he changed the battery early 2017. In this climate i'm not surprised, heat kills all batteries. I noticed there's a bit of a pause even trying to turn over which leads me to believe there's not enough juice to start it. Did I read you said that if the battery is too weak the EFI goes crazy? Could that cause a fuel smell?
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just tried the gas cap trick. no go there. Apologies if i mistook the first response as sarcasm, couldn't tell from the way it was written. :)
Sarcasm not intended but light-hearted wise guy was intended! I harp on stuff that seems to fix some problems and so far over one Genuine Buddy 150, two Downtown 300i Kymco's and several on here with running/starting problems, the vacuum operated fuel tank vent valve has been the cause. Generally, the tank will vent after a wait and everything returns to normal so it confuses the diagnosis. Popping the gas cap as soon as it occurs usually fixes the EFI machines instantly. But it takes a little while on carb engines.
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Possible sites for fuel leak....
INJECTOR
(https://i.postimg.cc/fT9zqh9J/Like200i-0288.jpg)
VACUUM LINE AND FUEL LINE
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yvzpNB8/Like200i-0268.jpg)
BREATHER LINE
(https://i.postimg.cc/NG1YRxqH/Like200i-0335-copy.jpg)
Or the cap itself, or around that 6-bolt fuel pump lid.....or the fuel line or weld seam of the tank?
Fuel smell and leak is a puzzle to me, if it is not due to the heat and fuel being forced out by expansion.
As for the hard starting ....DO you HAVE BRAKELIGHT ON when you pull brake lever and turn key to start??
(if no or flickering brake light , then it is in that little $3 switch by the inner lever end , surely they both don't go at same time - try the other brake lever)
OR >> loose/dirty battery contacts, weak battery, loose spark plug cap or broken inside, loose spark plug, dirty spark plug, valves need adjusting (but you don't have massive mileage for that), loose ground contacts, fuse (near battery)
As for the slight hesitation when starting - this is common, probably stopped on power stroke. No worries - but does go away with a very strong new battery in my experience.
Please keep us posted. These are known to be pretty bullet proof scooters.
all i got for now...
Stig
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I gotta remember that trick in the future Crossbolt, that really makes a ton of sense. Thanks for the input and no worries on the wise guy, i can usually take a good ribbing (I think i was just frustrated with the scooter in general yesterday.) LOL
Stig - checked out all those locations and no fuel noted, but obviously with it not starting currently i'm gonna want to look again for leaks in those spots once i am able to finally start it. I'm bookmarking those photos. It doesn't sound from what you are saying that fuel smell/issue is causing the non-start (or the stall i experienced at stop light). Considering i was doing a comfortable 45 mph and felt no problems with acceleration, odd noise, etc just before i got to the stop light i'm thinking electrical for the stall/non-start issue.
Brakelight comes on strong and trying both brake levers yields same result with no turn over (just the revving sound) :(. I figured start with simple answer first (Battery) and work backwards from there. The spark plug is nice and tight and last time i checked it looked good (several months ago but not that many miles ago). My father in law is in town next week so if the battery doesn't get it going i'll have him take a look too, especially with any electrical issues.
I'll report back once i get the battery and install it. Thanks again for the suggestions everyone!!
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"Revving sound" like starter running but not turning engine?
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i wish i could post a video or audio on here, would be easier to describe that way... looks like pictures only :(
Sounds like a car trying to turn over when its really cold out.. .slow and labored
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Rrrr!....rrr!.....rrrr! That it?
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If there's a little delay before the starter turns over, it's struggling to get momentum. Again, looks like battery although the starter solenoid has been known to be a problem on these models.
Could the puke tube have backed up as well? There's a clear tube off the airbox coming straight down to a black bung and a clip - take the bung out and see how much (if anything) comes out. If this is backed right up to the airbox that could start to smell, and it's kind of petrol-ish in the way it stinks.
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Well... The new battery didn't work. Tested it even to make sure it was good and it is. Starting to wonder if it's the starter given the lag in trying to turn over. After a couple of tries, the fuel smell is present too. I checked that puke tube even and a couple drops of black gunk came out but so little. Anyway, any next step suggestions at this point? I'm a visual person so if you could provide a picture that would be awesome. Appreciate the help!
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Fuel smell after a few failed starts could be normal -- flooding. Should NOT leak though.
Thinking...............
Stig
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If there's a little delay before the starter turns over, it's struggling to get momentum. Again, looks like battery although the starter solenoid has been known to be a problem on these models.
Could the puke tube have backed up as well? There's a clear tube off the airbox coming straight down to a black bung and a clip - take the bung out and see how much (if anything) comes out. If this is backed right up to the airbox that could start to smell, and it's kind of petrol-ish in the way it stinks.
But failed starter solenoid wouldn't cause the stall, would it? ??
And that fuel leak....running out of ideas here. Cranking but no start.
ECU, injector, fuel pump, coil, coil wire, plug cap. ??
Time to visit dealer?
Stig
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Thanks Stig. Flooded makes sense. No leaking though which is good. The drips only came when I opened the puke tube as noted above. And it was maybe two drips. If possible I'll try to get a video on here if I can
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/HpLm8Qqmj9bJ7f4h8
Hopefully this link works but here's a video of me trying to start it twice.
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/HpLm8Qqmj9bJ7f4h8
Hopefully this link works but here's a video of me trying to start it twice.
OK, sounds for all the world like KILL switch is in the 'OFF' position.
First few trouble steps refer to the fuel pump and/or the injector -----but you're smelling fuel. So, let's assume both are working.
Here's the next trouble shot---
(https://i.postimg.cc/Df4gVcTL/Troubleshooting-1.png)
So, a good blue spark when you hold the current plug grounded to the frame....if not, try a new plug. ??
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjdKDLzM/0000cap.jpg)
Then, with luck -- it is the spark plug, connections, or plug wire, or coil.
Stig
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Thanks Stig for the pictures and guidance. I'll take a look at the plug this week as next steps.
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The audio cleared up lotsa things! Stig is on the right track! But yo all knew that...
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To rule out the starter solenoid, could you try bridging the terminals on it with a screwdriver and see if it fires up? :)
It will look something like this
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqZ,!rIFBPEznIkCBQW2R1nzHw~~/s-l300.jpg)
It will be below the seat bucket, probably at a side somewhere.
Try crossing the big two terminals with a screwdriver (it'll spark, take care) and see if the starter sounds any different.
Kymcos are notorious for the starter solenoids/relays failing.
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Easy to spot....right side under the seat bucket. Has a bright red rubber cap on on it.
Stig
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Thanks for the suggestion on the starter. I did what you said, crossed a screwdriver between the two posts on the starter and yes, a big spark flew off. Kept it on there, kill switch off position, held in left brake and hit the starter button. No fire still. Same sound/noise. Hell of a good idea to try though. Spark plug is my next step.
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Today's update:
Had a few minutes before work to test a couple of things:
Spark plug test - Did it as Stig noted, great spark, plug looks great
Fuel pump test - Took off hose coming off fuel pump, turned key, fuel came out steady.
Noticed on the spark plug it was dry as a bone after several start attempts. Thinking fuel injector at this point? TPS?
Wont' have time again until tomorrow, off to take the kiddo trick or treating soon. Happy Halloween all
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The bike has two main fuses - one of which feeds the FI and the other the auxilaries. Is it possible only one of these fuses has gone south?
If there's no fuel on the plug...
The fuses are in the battery compartment. I've blown the auxilary one (which the starter circuit is on) but if the FI one has blown you might never know.
When you turn the ignition on, can you hear the FI whining or not?
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The bike has two main fuses - one of which feeds the FI and the other the auxilaries. Is it possible only one of these fuses has gone south?
If there's no fuel on the plug...
The fuses are in the battery compartment. I've blown the auxilary one (which the starter circuit is on) but if the FI one has blown you might never know.
When you turn the ignition on, can you hear the FI whining or not?
Have we tried the "flooded cylinder" start procedure ---hold throttle wide open and do a lengthy starter try? Don't goose the throttle - just hold it open.
Viper - that whine is from the fuel pump in the tank. I just went out to my LIKE200i and confirmed that.
After the pump initiates, all becomes quiet in the FI system....waiting for the starter.
With good spark, good fuses, and good fuel flow...the next suspect seems to be the fuel injector.
Followed by improper valve adjustment, worn compression parts (valves, rings, cylinder), etc. ---all of which seem less likely, but possible??, with only this many miles.
A 9V battery will make the injector 'click'. To check for flow is a bit more involved....
Checking/Cleaning a fuel injector...
https://youtu.be/96sl1lnYyGo
Stig
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
well Okhams razor was in full effect here. Had a day off so finally got around to pulling out the fuel pump to take a look (didn't want to start it previously and then walk away). Low and behold after getting it out I saw the following problem in the picture attached with the fuel line from the pump motor....
Explained it all in retrospect and why i never saw leaking fuel... It all leaked back into the tank apparently. Anyway replaced the 5/8 inch fuel line from Auto zone for 2 bucks and it started like a champ and is running great. The only reason I can ascertain for the line splitting like that was the previous owner keeping it outside in the heat with a non filled tank. The line just dried out and was cracking until it eventually gave way.
Anyway I learned a lot about my kymco in this process and thank you all for your help here. This forum is awesome.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/MGgysc54/000000fuel.jpg)
So, you're talking this heavy black hose, seen here?
Well, I'll be danged!
No way that was going to be easy to diagnose!
Well done you!
Stig
(Wouldn't have thought to replace that hose when I was in there on my year old scooter.)
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Yes indeed that was the hose that split. Honestly wasn't looking for it either, I simply took the fuel pump out and noticed it immediately and deduced that wasnt right... Lucky I guess in this case. Anyway, I'm back riding again!
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Outstanding feedback! We all need to figger a neat way to measure fuel pressure. This would have been one of the checks in the trouble shoot process. What is the pressure supposed to be anyway?
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Brilliant - it's threads like this that make the forum format so useful. Glad you've sussed it out. Give us a shout if there's anything else you want to talk about!
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I found a pdf for a Kymco Xciting 400i and the fuel pressure for that scoot is 3.0 Bar or about 45 PSI.
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Probably the same fuel pump.
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Good evening, I also have a problem with it not starting ..changed battery and still no sign of cranking?
Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
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Good evening, I also have a problem with it not starting ..changed battery and still no sign of cranking?
Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
LIKE200I ?
Year?
Miles?
Previous issues?
Ran fine , then no more...recent servicing?
Does brake light come on when you pull brake lever to start?
Please a bit more info.
Stig