KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: EvilTessmacher on September 10, 2018, 10:24:17 PM
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After a total of fifty-one days, my oil filter and associated parts arrived. The lovely young lady at the parts counter of my dealership called me this morning, letting me know they'd come in. I had to take one of my cats to the vet this morning, but after that, I went and picked everything up! They were extremely apologetic, and I mentioned the "Dauphine Effect" regarding lack of parts, and there was this grizzled old geezer in there who asked me rather incredulously how I could possibly know about the Dauphine! Turned out he had bought one way back when.
Anyway, I should have the whole process completed by noon tomorrow.
So, the Hiflo I ordered will now become the spare. It's due in by Friday.
Fraking Whew!
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If this is the hiflo for the x400i, I recommend amazon!
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My dealer gets these parts within a week...I don't know why it takes you so long....
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My local dealer says they(the HiFlo) are listed in the catalog but showed not in stock. I just told 'em thanks and ordered them from TBS and duplicated the order with Brooksbarn (or barnbrooks, I forgot). Ordered extra O-rings from the O-ring store. Put the surplus in storage and have enough for 3 more oil changes and one air filter change.
I'm used to planning ahead, but due to family issues, haven't put as many miles as usual. Of my 29 bikes, this is only the 4th one I've not put the 600 miles on and have it serviced the next day. Took me 6 weeks to get the 600 miles. Gettin' old sux. Was planning to need a new belt by spring of 2019, but looks like I'll be modding and polishing more than riding as I hang around and get cabin fever. Luna is so patient with me!!!!!
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Whining about getting old is not allowed!
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My dealer gets these parts within a week...I don't know why it takes you so long....
This is the way it unfolded: The dealer got the order from the Kymco USA online parts catalog where I ordered it in July. They contacted the distributor in Spartanburg, SC, who told them that there were no parts available to send and so they'd have to be ordered from Taiwan. Well and good. Except, I am of the opinion that the factory in Taiwan literally picked the slowest rowboat from China to ship the parts.
Aside from that bit of speculation, I really have no idea why it took 7 weeks to get one oil filter.
However, just so the record is complete, I also ordered a Hiflo from Brooksbarn on August 24. The delivery date I was given was September 8. So, I contacted them on the 9th, to be told that the delivery date was now the 13th, and if I didn't have it by then, wait until the 17th and they'd give me a refund. I told them I didn't want a refund, I wanted the filter I paid for. I was told they don't control shipping.
So, I'm really not sure why there are so many problems getting things shipped in a timely manner. It's not like it's the 19th century and things have to be sent by carrier pigeon and horse-drawn carriage.
In your estimation, why do you think your dealer gets parts in a week, when mine takes seven weeks?
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I must say, if I order through amazon, i get it in like 2-3 days! Which is great for me, given I change it on my own, and I can know exactly when I’ll receive it!
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I am not sure, he orders OEM parts.
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I am not sure, he orders OEM parts.
Well... Um. That's what we're talking about here, I thought.
OEM parts.
Are you in the US? Your sig indicates you're in Italy, if I'm reading it correctly. Wouldn't that mean you are under a different parts system? Don't forget, the 400i is a first-year bike in the US in 2018. It's been around three or four years in other countries.
Myself, I think that might have something to do with it.
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Well... Um. That's what we're talking about here, I thought.
OEM parts.
Are you in the US? Your sig indicates you're in Italy, if I'm reading it correctly. Wouldn't that mean you are under a different parts system? Don't forget, the 400i is a first-year bike in the US in 2018. It's been around three or four years in other countries.
Myself, I think that might have something to do with it.
Providence RI (Rhode Island) is in the United States. The OLDER bikes (90's-2005) were in Italy according to that signature.
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Whining about getting old is not allowed!
:o
Ahhhhh shucks cuz CB....I thought that was the duty of old farthings.....uh, folks.....
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Yeah, I see that now.
I guess I'm just confused over how I asked him how his dealer orders parts, and why he thinks his dealer gets parts in three days, when mine took 51 days. Don't know where he got aftermarket parts from. That threw me.
At least I'l have a spare when it comes time to do the next one!
Boy, I hope I didn't screw it up. I always worry about things like that.
Say, Clampett, when you did the gear oil in the trans, did 200ml fill it up to where it drained out of the port like the service manual says? "The oil level is correct when oil flows from the bolt hole."
Mine didn't.
I ended up putting another 20ml in there just to be overcautious, and it still didn't flow from the bolt hole like the manual said it would. I even rotated the tires, propped up the front tire on a 2"x6" to level the bike more, and ran the motor for a few minutes, and it still didn't do it. Now I don't know that I have enough in there, even though I followed the procedure in the manual exactly. Test rode it about .5 miles, and everything felt and sounded right, but I just don't know for sure.
This kind of thing worries me.
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That will be the FIRST Kymco in recent history to give that fill instruction! Several including me used to the American differential fill method learned to put the EXACT amount in the gear box or you wind up with sticky gear lube everywhere!
I can see why it would take forever to get OEM parts since Kymco dealers are not required to stock ANY parts for ANY of the models. I was advised by a Regional Rep the reason for no stocking requirement was because the Kymco's were so reliable. I have to agree on the reliable part but not stocking consumables? That's nuts and just drives people elsewhere as it did me. Scooters are such a low priority with the dealers that actually have them it is surprising they have any at all. What should happen is manufacturer's floor plans like cars: they just park a bunch of cars at the dealers, as many as his lot will handle. Does not cost him a cent except on inventory tax. Kymco, on the other hand, requires the dealer to BUY every model! No wonder things are slow!
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That will be the FIRST Kymco in recent history to give that fill instruction! Several including me used to the American differential fill method learned to put the EXACT amount in the gear box or you wind up with sticky gear lube everywhere!
I can see why it would take forever to get OEM parts since Kymco dealers are not required to stock ANY parts for ANY of the models. I was advised by a Regional Rep the reason for no stocking requirement was because the Kymco's were so reliable. I have to agree on the reliable part but not stocking consumables? That's nuts and just drives people elsewhere as it did me. Scooters are such a low priority with the dealers that actually have them it is surprising they have any at all. What should happen is manufacturer's floor plans like cars: they just park a bunch of cars at the dealers, as many as his lot will handle. Does not cost him a cent except on inventory tax. Kymco, on the other hand, requires the dealer to BUY every model! No wonder things are slow!
Never really knew how long it takes Kymco USA to send parts to my dealer.
My problem was trying to motivate the parts countermen to actually send the order ----because it was just a scooter. They had to gather enough orders. ...like a bunch of us want Kymco parts this week!
So, I go with monsterparts.com
Stig
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Yeah, I see that now.
I guess I'm just confused over how I asked him how his dealer orders parts, and why he thinks his dealer gets parts in three days, when mine took 51 days. Don't know where he got aftermarket parts from. That threw me.
At least I'l have a spare when it comes time to do the next one!
Boy, I hope I didn't screw it up. I always worry about things like that.
Say, Clampett, when you did the gear oil in the trans, did 200ml fill it up to where it drained out of the port like the service manual says? "The oil level is correct when oil flows from the bolt hole."
Mine didn't.
I ended up putting another 20ml in there just to be overcautious, and it still didn't flow from the bolt hole like the manual said it would. I even rotated the tires, propped up the front tire on a 2"x6" to level the bike more, and ran the motor for a few minutes, and it still didn't do it. Now I don't know that I have enough in there, even though I followed the procedure in the manual exactly. Test rode it about .5 miles, and everything felt and sounded right, but I just don't know for sure.
This kind of thing worries me.
I read your concerns about proper fill amount. ...
Is there any chance you are not using the correct fill hole?
Stig
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I was pondering the same thing Stig. I re-read the Chap 5 with the pictures and looked at the bike again. ET has the PDF so I'm assuming he did it correct.
But others (myself included) have made mistakes even with photos. But I don't see another bolt that could take that oil and not have signs of something wrong.
I wasn't ignoring, I've just been trying to go over the whole thing again to see what the problem is/could be. I had a similar incident as a teen when I replaced the oil in my auto with 5 quarts of oil and nothing showed on the stick. I had forgot to replace the drain bolt. But in this case, it would have been immediately noticeable.
Yep, told that one on myself.
As to my results, ET. When I filled the same amount back in that I took out, I got my little light and could see the oil inside the bolt hole/filler hole. It was just below the bolt hole, so I buttoned it up.
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ET, I just ordered an oil filter and an air filter. They came in within 6 days. I am not sure why your dealer takes so long to get them. Maybe my dealer buys them out of the back of a white van with blacked out windows... ;D. Nonetheless, I am happy that you finally got your stuff. It might be a good idea to stock up over the winter on oil filters and maybe an air filter so you don't have to wait so long. Also make sure that you get the aluminum washers(gaskets) for the drain plug. You can call my dealer Razee's and ask them where they get their parts from...ask for parts department.
Razee Motorcycle Center
(401) 295-8837
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Stig: I admire your thoroughness, and your perspicacity, but no, there's no chance I could have filled the wrong hole. There are only two bolts accessible on the outer case of the transmission. One parallel to the ground facing to the rear of the bike, and one perpendicular to the ground, facing the ground. The first is the fill hole, the second is the drain hole. And on top of that, the service manual photo matches what the physical condition of the bike is. A rarity, I know, but it did. So I don't know.
Clampett: Yes, I did in fact replace the drain bolt before I added back the massively odorous gear oil. I wanted to make sure I did that, lest I screw something up. As before, I checked, and re-checked every step on the list in the manual, and rechecked again with the physical condition of the bike.
I have a 2000cc syringe (200ml) that I used, and I did two sets of 100ml fills. It's possible that 5-7ml remained in the nose of the syringe, but I did not visually check it with a light. I most certainly will do that in the AM.
I rode Diana to work and back this evening, and she was just as responsive and quiet as she ever was, and I listened carefully for any odd noises or out of place vibrations and the like, and she seemed just as good if not better. I parked her on top of a piece of cardboard, and will see if there are any leaks in the morning. I hope not.
Karl: I have no knowledge of this "American differential fill method" you mention. All I know is, I followed the specifications in the manual exactly. I would appreciate the benefit of your knowledge base regarding this American method.
Here's the page of the Service Manual which describes the fill procedure. What you see in the image, is exactly what I did.-
(https://thumb.ibb.co/j32gPp/Ch5_7.png) (https://ibb.co/j32gPp)
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Whining about getting old is not allowed!
I wholeheartedly agree!
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The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!
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The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!
So, if (since?) this is wrong, I should go out and put more oil in until it runs out?
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The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!
The amount you put in is dependent on the model isn't it?
On the Yager, if you fill it up the final drive to the 'fill' hole, as you ride it, it overflows into the airbox and leaks out onto the floor.
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Like louder said, use 200 ml and NOT til it runs out. Or you will have 90 weight everywhere! Conflicting info.
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Like louder said, use 200 ml and NOT til it runs out. Or you will have 90 weight everywhere! Conflicting info.
That conflicting info is why I asked. I don't have any leaks from anywhere, and the puke tube is still empty.
Next step, visually inspect the level with a Clampett Light.
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I have the same question that Stig just asked: Could you be putting it in the wrong hole? Harumph.
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Nah, he put a picture of the right bolt. ALL my Kymco's were like this, 180 to 200 ml just covers the bottom of the gearbox and you cannot see the surface of the oil through the fill hole. He got the right hole. The stupid instructions conflict with the stated quantity. They forgot one word! ET thinks Kymco knows how to write service manuals! Hey, ET! You still there? 200 ml will work!
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Nah, he put a picture of the right bolt. ALL my Kymco's were like this, 180 to 200 ml just covers the bottom of the gearbox and you cannot see the surface of the oil through the fill hole. He got the right hole. The stupid instructions conflict with the stated quantity. They forgot one word! ET thinks Kymco knows how to write service manuals! Hey, ET! You still there? 200 ml will work!
Yes, I used the right bolt. I am not an idiot, in spite of my inability to understand the printed word and expecting it to be valid.
This is clearly a case where my sense of factualism, idealism, and the absolute black/white nature of right and wrong comes into conflict with the physical world. If they manufactured the dang thing, then their engineers should know better than anyone else. Either they do, and the item is trustworthy, or they don't, and it isn't. And that's how it is. No amount of hedging, dissimulation, obfuscation, temporizing, or ambiguity should or can change that.
As George Carlin once said, "Things either are, or they aren't. Take the word 'inflammable' for instance. Either the thing flams, or it doesn't flam. If it flams, then it's flammable. If it doesn't flam, then it's inflammable. Let's have some !@#%*& consistency in the world!" I happen to agree.
This maddeningly imprecise information directly from those who do and should know best, is unacceptable to those of us who demand accuracy and expect precision. And no amount of "yeah, but" will ever change it. For the first time, I am beginning to regret my choice. I should have waited for another TMax that fit my requirements to come along.
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This is all quite strange for me, as ~250 ml nearly makes mine over flow!
I wonder what the difference is!
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That conflicting info is why I asked. I don't have any leaks from anywhere, and the puke tube is still empty.
Next step, visually inspect the level with a Clampett Light.
On my scoot the excess gear oil will show up in the air filter housing, not the puke tube.
But they are not the same scoots so this may be different on yours.
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ET,
I put in around .21 liters of gear oil on my 300GTI and on my 400i. They have the same gear oil volume measurements. I use a 60ml syringe that I got at CVS. So I use 3 and 1/2 half shots of gear oil and I am good to go. I never had any gear issues on the 300 GTI which I have ridden for the past 6 years.
Anything close to .21 Liters will be fine. I talked to a mechanic who told me that having too much gear is worse than a little less.
Dean