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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: jswalls110 on August 08, 2010, 11:06:23 PM

Title: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 08, 2010, 11:06:23 PM
Last week my scooter stopped running on the way to work. Checked all the fuses
and they where ok. Tried to start it and it started, and off I go to work. Came
out the afternoon to go home, and it wouldn't start. It cranked and cranked, but
it took me 20 minutes to get it to start. (Gas is ok, 3/4 tank)

I got home, and let it sit. Last night I figured I'd try a new plug. The guy at
the counter suggested also I check the spark. Put the new plug in, it started
and I rode around the block. Shut it off, waited 1/2 hour, and no start. I then
tested the spark. About every 15-20 cranks I get a spark.

I have installed a new CDI, ignition coil and spark plug wire.

Same issue.

I am assuming this has to be a wire, broken or shorted.

I am at a loss as to where to go next.

Any ideas?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by: Agent Bob on August 08, 2010, 11:54:42 PM
You need a bigger hammer. Seriously though, If you can get it running, hammer on a few things lightly, and move cables around. If it conks out it'll be at the last area you were at. It may or may not work, but try it.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 09, 2010, 12:04:56 AM
I did the wiggle thing today, I will do it more tomorrow. I really think that has to be it. But then again, I thought it was the CDI too.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 09, 2010, 01:15:47 AM
 Just went down this road it was the stator(generater) try all else first. I did not find a good way to test the generater and after testing all else that was the only thing left.  All is good now but what a pain in the ass!!! Hope you find a loose wire or bad ignition or kill switch.  For Some clues, check for resistance at kill switch and ignition If no continuety that should be your problem. If not most likely stator.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 09, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
Now I show my ignorance. Is this with the kill switch on (engine can;t start) or off (engine starts). I probably have these backwards.

I have been toying with the kill switch idea all day.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 09, 2010, 01:42:39 AM
   Ha! usually from seated position it will be down twards you. That will allow you to start the motor. On many you must pull the brake also to get it started and some will not start with the side stand down another safty feature(don't think kymco uses this one much.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 09, 2010, 01:56:01 AM
Thanks for that, I will check tomorrow night!
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 09, 2010, 02:15:26 AM
 Good luck!!! Hope it's not the gen.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 10, 2010, 12:48:40 AM
Well, it's not it kill switch. Nuts. Thanks for the help anyway!
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 12:53:37 AM
Last week my scooter stopped running on the way to work. Checked all the fuses
and they where ok. Tried to start it and it started


..i had the same problem with my 2008 guilty...

..turned out it was indeed the fuse holder, beneath the footboard cover with th' battery...

..it was not making a good connection...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 10, 2010, 01:09:07 AM
 If it is the gen check these guys out,you will also need a flywheel puller to acces it .  http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/actionmotorsportsktm/Kymco_OEM/KymcoSC.asp?Type=13&A=19&B=9 (http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/actionmotorsportsktm/Kymco_OEM/KymcoSC.asp?Type=13&A=19&B=9)  . Part#31110  I don't know which puller you need. Check the ignition and fuse wires first.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 11, 2010, 10:47:43 PM
Tried the fuse holder, both of them. Checked ok. Thanks for the heads up though. I think it may be time to bite the bullet and let a real motorcycle mechanic look at it, not an IT guy.

Thanks everybody for the ideas.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 12, 2010, 12:23:50 AM
 It's not hard to do,but you need the right flywheel puller to get to it.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: sidthesloth on August 15, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
Flywheel puller $11 from scooter assassins. I think wordslinger and art both found a wire was shorting on the frame with their peoples, it may be worth a look for that thread in the p50 board.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on August 15, 2010, 04:16:35 PM
...yup..sure did..

..mine was behind the front cowling...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on August 15, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
 Unfortunatly mine was the generater  :'( 
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on August 16, 2010, 01:22:01 PM
I will certainly look at that. thanks.
Title: Re: No spark - FIXED
Post by: jswalls110 on September 01, 2010, 11:24:25 PM
Some more screwing around tonight, and bingo I find it! I took the front cowling off, and starting looking at the plugs. Unplug, replug. Test ignition. Turns out, on the plug up to the ignition switch itself, there is a single wire black/white coming from the top (12 oclock) from the switch. I unplug it, and it fires right up. Run for a while, shut down, start up. Several times. Then a quick ride.

No shut off. I assume this is an off position, and also assume I have to replace the switch. It starts up and shuts off no issues. So for now, I have the plugged taped off.

Where can I get a new ignition switch, and what the hell is that wire?

Thanks for all the help too!
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 01, 2010, 11:27:08 PM
.."http://www.stadiumyamaha.com" for all your kymco OEM parts...mention this forum!!


peace
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on September 01, 2010, 11:44:33 PM
  Yay!  ;D  Who needs it!  ;)  Try to clean and reseat it. May need to clean the contacts at the switch also with electrical contact cleaner it can work wonders sometimes. Not sure what the wire is. but another thought is if the cleaning don't do it,you might want to trace that wire out may be grounding out somwhere else. Saved your self a shop visit at least.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 01, 2010, 11:45:12 PM
..i'm not seeing a bl/w wire on my schematic...hmmm..

..what other color of wires come from that switch??
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 12:13:41 AM
Ok, I had to take the cowl off again, can't trust my memory.

The ignition switch has 5 wires coming out of it.

12 oclock Black/White
2 oclock Black
5 oclock Green
7 oclock Green
10 oclock Red


The Blk, 2 Greens and Red all go to a connector. The Blk/White runs outside that group and goes to a single wire (barrel?) connector.

And I like the idea of the electrical contact cleaner too. MIght have to give it a try.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 12:18:36 AM
..is there a fuse in that connector??
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 12:19:20 AM
Nope. It's about 6 inches from the ignition switch.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 12:21:42 AM
..can you take a pic??

..i don't see those color wires on the wiring schematic from the start switch...

..only green and yellow/red...

..that sounds like the keyswitch...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 12:23:01 AM
Sorry, my fault. Thats an IT guy trying to talk mechanics. It is the key switch.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on September 02, 2010, 12:25:41 AM
  Does that model have the sidestand kill switch? Maybe that is it  ???
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
..no, that's cool...similar, but still different that the schematic i have...

..what year is ur scoot??..might can find another schematic...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 12:28:25 AM
..as far asi know, tere are no a50s with kill switches other than on the right handlebar...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 12:29:58 AM
Ok thought it was 2008, title says 2007. And there is no kill switch on the kick stand, only the right handlebar.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on September 02, 2010, 12:30:20 AM
 Ah another posibility ha ! wiring not my strong point  ::)
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 12:33:19 AM
..i'm just not sure where that wire goes...all the ones from that switch seem like they must be connected...just from tracing them out...hhmmmmmm.....
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 12:52:09 AM
Yea, I know. Strange. I think I may send an email to Kymco tomorrow and see if I get a response.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on September 02, 2010, 12:58:21 AM
  Is it possible someone had an alarm system on it at one time. Does it look to be factery wiring? Some people add a toggle switch at glove box or under seat to make it harder to steal.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 01:01:56 AM
Actually, I won this in a Relay for Life raffle in 2008, and it was new from a dealer. So I am owner #1.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: sidthesloth on September 02, 2010, 01:04:33 AM
On ZX50, the B/W goes to the cdi.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 01:06:05 AM
I don't know if this is important, but after the connector, the wire is Blue/Yellow.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 01:07:53 AM
..dunno the orientation, but the drawing i have shows all the wires to th same connector...
there:

black becomes blk/blu to a 7amp fuse and to the cdi..
blue/yellow to the pulsar and cdi
green to several lamps
red to the battery and voltage regulator
green to the ignition coil ground...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: sidthesloth on September 02, 2010, 01:10:05 AM
Is it to shut down the engine?
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 01:14:07 AM
Is it to shut down the engine?


...lol..apparently!!

 ;D
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: sidthesloth on September 02, 2010, 01:15:21 AM
OOOPS!!!
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: art on September 02, 2010, 01:16:42 AM
 ;D   ;D    ;D   :o
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 01:17:32 AM
And it does a VERY good job doing it!

I see no side effects so far from not having it connected, but I know it has to do something.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 01:22:04 AM
..all your lamps work??
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 01:22:41 AM
yup.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 01:23:45 AM
..hell, keep it taped up and RIDE ON brother!!

 ;D
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 01:24:41 AM
LMAO.

I'm with you, man!

Thanks for all the help.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 01:27:20 AM
..one day when you got th time...trace it out...see where the hell it goes, then POST IT HERE!!!...lol..
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 10:39:46 PM
Ok, busy night, but I trced the blue/yellow. It goes to CDI.

                 
       |------------|------------|
       |     1     |     2     |
       |            |            |
       --------------------------
       |            |            |
       |      3    |      4    |
       |            |            |
       --------------------------

       --------------------------
       |             |           |
       |      5     |     6     |
       |             |           |
        --------------------------


4 position CDI PLug
1. Green
2. Blue/Yellow   ********************
3. Empty
4. Black/Yellow

2 position CDI Plug
5 Black/Blue
6 Empty

I'm waiting to see if Kymco answers me.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 10:44:14 PM
..have you derestricted that cdi??

Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 10:44:37 PM
..nice depiction, btw...

 ;D
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 02, 2010, 10:55:02 PM
didn;'t have to, it is an OEM CDI and coil. Improved my speed at least 5 mph, starts almost immediately, and more get up and go.

CDI, Ignition coil and wire and spark plug were among the first things I replaced when this started
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 02, 2010, 10:58:34 PM
...oem derestricted??

..coool...

..i've seen one other..scootermaven's 09 had a kymco derestricted cdi..

..i put it in my 08, and it performed a bit better than my oem (cut) cdi...
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 03, 2010, 03:43:41 PM
A reply today from Kymco USA.

This circuit is for the handle bar mounted kill switch.

I must be wrong about the wire going to the CDI.

However, when I turn off the kill switch, the scooter dies.

Hmmmmm.

Gonna have to unscrew the cowling AGAIN, and be more thorough. If it is the Kill switch, I will not fix it.
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: wordslinger on September 03, 2010, 10:37:25 PM
However, when I turn off the kill switch, the scooter dies.


.. ??? .. i think that's supposed to happen...

 ;D
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: jswalls110 on September 04, 2010, 10:55:41 PM
Yea, execpt if that is the kill switch wire, and I have diconnected it, how can the kill switch still kill the engine?????
Title: Re: No spark
Post by: sidthesloth on September 05, 2010, 12:40:26 AM
That wire is to kill the engine from the ignition switch, the kill switch wire will join in further down the line. You might have a fault in your ignition switch.