KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: art on August 03, 2010, 05:35:22 AM
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Been have some trouble with this one lately. Crapping out at high revs thought it was my jetting and a sputter after multiple jet settings got worse to the point i just limped it home,sat for an hour and dead no spark.
Checked plug, checked fuse,checked kill switch and wires to ignition,swapped with known working coil, cdi and no luck. Got to pull the rest of the tupperwear to see any further for wires from the stater and coil any thoughts, if stater(alternater,magnito ??? ) is bad are there any easy tests (electrical is not my strong point!) ;D . Oh well thanks for any help catch ya all later.
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..let me do some research this evening when I get home..
..wish zombie were here...he knows the resistance values by heart...
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Well I bit the bullet today and replaced the stater after testing all wires and components it was the only thing left and could not find a way to test it alone.
Now i have spark! But still no start up Ha! While i had it all tore down I cut my self some new reeds and have a feeling the glue was a bit tacky when i put it back together no vacume now(I hope!) ;D
To beat up to tear it down this evening ,maybe tomorrow. Had a blast chasing parts on the s200. Local shop lent me the the flywheel puller (Awsome shop) Sargent's motor sports, would love to see them get the right to sale Kymco's in there. Oh well tomorrow it's miller time now ;D :D ;)
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Oh well tomorrow it's miller time now
..yup...
I cut my self some new reeds
..i got me a complete reed valve assembly from stadiumyamaha...
..they're still in th' box....dang....
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At least there not glued together ;D
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...i was gonna try that....
..kinda decided th '01 didn't really need anything much further than NEW oem...
... :-X
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I'm not done yet (i hope) got to get one true gps outa this project,then i can start to finish some others.
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Damn!!! It's alive again,Had loads of fun :P Got stator all in and go to fire it and It's trying to start the motor in reverse ??? Oposite of the the starter rotation "Great!" Ha!
I knew from my dirt bike days the old motors would run backword if you pushed that direction or rolled down a hill backword(no fun if you hit the gas at that point thinking you will be going forward!)
After scratching my head all day decided it was a timing thing and it was. The stator i bought was a gy6 (generic) that did not fit exactly,the coil was fine but the pick up for the pulser? did not fit well so i reemed it out a bit to fit the bolt holes And that little bit off changed the timing so I ripped the pickup out of the old one,wired it in and I'm back to one kick ;D ;D ;D Still not all together but it runns.
While i was there did some more changes I'll post later. ;)
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more changes huh?!?!....interesting....glad your back an running..... ;) but then again you have a clue..lmao not like myself.....yet...
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Ha! yep ported the intake today also. That link i sent had a great vid. But guess what got to retune the carb again ;D :D ;)
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the intake itself?? cool...think yours looks way different than mine...was told to port the small openings under the reed cage as well as the reed cage( cage good for 1 he says).... man i want several scoots WITH the parts to play with...lmao tried to look at vid but said no mobile version...damnitt....
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Yep noticed the 19mm carb and stock intake + gasket nowhere near the same size may have been part of my cold start problems. I did not see anything i could do to the reed side.
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also surprised your running the oem intake with a 19mm carb.....seemed shaka had a issue till he changed intake(but he has a zx too). to rescrictive with oem...idk tho.......
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I think i was lucky to make it go as well as it did,but had little carb issues I could not get right I think i'm on the right track now and i was pushin mid to upper 60's can't waight to test ;)
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i know thats right...woo hooo...i wish i could get somewhere near 60 w/o downhill. :-\ ;).....
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my router is dying and the power has been spotty all day,somthing at one of the poles so i'm in and out. I'll catch it all up sometime ::)
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O.k latest round electrical is sorted. wasn't back to my top speeds though,so another bunch of cvt changes. Now running the green malossi contra,a set of dr. pully 9.5g and the 743 belt.
This got me back to speed I can peg the speedo again(not quite as quik as before) and ran great the first 5 miles out stopped for some parts got back up to speed and starts shutting down again like it's out of gas at top speed wot ??? let off and runs fine. It's running a hair lean but with in talerence. Any thought's, carb to small,didn't seem to matter before. Major motor malfunction,seals bearings, crank.doesn't make any noise when this happens. Or another short only at high speed ??? ??? ??? Oh well I'll come up with something or put it on the shelf for awhile not like i don't have others to finish ;D
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uuuuuuuuummmm.............................yeah... :D ::)
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...can you raise the float on your carb??
..on my a50 carb, the float is adjustable...
..it would allow more reserve fuel in your bowl...
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No its tied to the jet no adjuster,seems wierd not a problem utill this summer of corse I added a few more miles an hour around then,and cant tell if its tied to fuel or electrical maybe cobra cdi does have a limmiter and just started hitting it :o Time to cut the oem cdi maybe.
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Well today my iridium plugs showed up and was not a big believer in them,Well now i am. Cold start not a problem any more and for the time being its not shutting down ??? Who would a thunk it,will have to put in some more time on it but quite impressed so far after about 30 miles and Pulled my test hill 3mph faster. I would suggest to anyone following this go get some about $9 at my local auto parts store. WOW!!! Ps. cut the 2009 oem cdi no wire in there till i hit the circuit board ;)
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Well today my iridium plugs showed up and was not a big believer in them,Well now i am. Cold start not a problem any more and for the time being its not shutting down ??? Who would a thunk it,will have to put in some more time on it but quite impressed so far after about 30 miles and Pulled my test hill 3mph faster. I would suggest to anyone following this go get some about $9 at my local auto parts store. WOW!!! Ps. cut the 2009 oem cdi no wire in there till i hit the circuit board ;) from a plug?????????????????
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May be worth a shot. I'm not sure why the results but it's working. I've heard other people say there great,but didn't think much of it. maybe just lined up good.I don't know ??? Will be testing in my other soon.
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hmmm???? i had heard they were good plugs but like that???... was told not to use if doing tunning...you would in essensce ruin the plug, waste that $10,..
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I'm beyond the tuneing point at this moment Ha! but makes sense. I tried them back in my dirt bike days and did not see any benifit. In a round about way its showing me a problem or compensating for it. Thought it might be worth a try with the little 50cc motor for any boost and its working at the moment ???
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now i had wondered about a bosch platnimum +4........lmao... may need ME one of those...i dont foul like i did before i know that much...lmao(well i do change pretty often now too.)
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..i'm about ready to tear into my ppl..
..it's been sitting there, quietly waiting, longing for some attention...
..bless it's heart, i've been neglecting it since i figured th' guilty delima out...
..i've just had so much fun with the 4t since i opened the exhaust...
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WORD!!!..... whats up?, was wondering if you were stopping in this eve.
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At least you have a nice runner it will afford you some time to do it right ,Let me know when your ready i'll list what ever i have running that day on the bike :D Opening the exhaust did make a difference on the s200,but i forgot i had changed the contra back to stock so no top speed runs today.(needed the green spring for the people)
Still scratching my head over the plug change on the people,I've heard stories but wow it made quite a difference,we'll see how long it lasts. got to run catch ya all later.
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..yeah, rough day..
..we pulled two 8" diameter, @20 ft long steel tie bars out of one of th diecasting machines today...
..about 3500 lbs each..one stuck about half way...
..and it was 110 degrees in that area of the plant....
..been lurking for a bit...
;)
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..i've never tried MASS IRIDIUM yet...or a 1500 spring...
.i need that spring in my life..
..i gotta get a new torque driver for the ppl...and i may have found a contributor to my belt snapping problems..
..i'm guessing the kevlar belt, when it frikin exploded, and wrapped parts of itself around the clutch so tightly that it actually deformed the pulley's profile ...the contra spring was tightly compressed by the strands of rubber...and what didn't wrap itself, turned info a mass of "fluff"...filled every nook and cranny of the cvt parts..even the kick-start mechanism...
..i'll take a pic...
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i tried a 1500 but not sure if i did it right tho...lmao seemed those heavier weights with the heavier var kills it.....i think anyway...lol maybe you found the issue, be nice too i know...
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..you need lighter rollers with a stffer torque drive spring, i do believe...
..oh, did you ever see that post??
..with the explanations and rpm charts??
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...can you get a pdf reading app on ur fone??
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yeah, you talking about the one art posted?? yeah, got a copy one a.ym.. thats how i seen the rpms needing to stay up more than they were.. still dont FULLY get it but it could be the scoot...lmao i thought everybody said stiller contra, heavier rollers...idk, STILL LEARNING.....LMAO
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..one of the statements down toward the bottom was that if you're running lighter rollers, you should stiffen up the contra...
..and i love my 4.5 gram (with oem carb) i'm running now...awesome take-off, and damn...how could i complain about top end.... ??? ..but i still think it drops out of th band too early...even when it's hot...
..the 1500 might help that..
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hmm. maybe i need to try again...stikl dont have that great takeoff like everybody else yet but dam she is sooo close.....i think...lmao need sum rollers first, regardless tho.... mine seems to drop out(still close) the band yesterday and today..thats why i had wondered
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...i'm tempted to go to 4.2g rollers....
..is that radical or what??..
..oem is 6..some say 6.5 grams...
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..i might drop outta here at any time..
..got one helluva storm headed straight for th' crib...
..packing extreme lightning and 58 mph winds...
..rained over 5 inches in about 30 minutes, in one place it went thru...
..wheres my camera...lol..
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...see...
..actually, the bad part skirted home...
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O'k. latest set up for today. Went from the red to the green contra,dropped from the 12g to 9.5g rollers(dr pully) and the after market drive face plus 743 belt. So far no rub issues with the belt(also running the starter) Will keep an eye on that.
Have got almost all back would like to see some more bottem but seems pretty good so far and top seem to be back in line. Ha! been ridiing the s200 quite a bit more so have lost the feel for the bike. I would think tuneing to the 1500 would benifit both of you. Crazy thing is i just lightend spring and roller and getting better results ??? plus the plug ??? Does not compute :D But hey it's working.
A buddy of mine works at a shop similare. Allthread ancher bolts and plateing. I have heard the horror stories when one of those bundles comes unraveled or things get jamed!
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Cool had a good one last year. The lightning had us surrounded for about 30 minutes and could see some near ground strikes Awsome!!!
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i gotta get a new torque driver for the ppl...and i may have found a contributor to my belt snapping P.S. I have stock tranny parts!!! ;)
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i had the same storm last night. ;) it was some crazy ass lightning, cool ass pic..i can never get the bolt, always to late. :D well if light rollers is key with heavier contra..which is the red and green contra???? id have to get some lighter rollers before hand...lol unless art wants to trade rollers with s&h paid..lmao ;D ( tried one set, wrong answer..lmao)...
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I don't have anything that light.
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P.S. I have stock tranny parts!!!
..i need a torque driver and i would also like to get another driven face...
..tell me more bro!!
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cool ass pic..
..i sent it to th local fox station...
..they showed it on the morning and evening news...
..that was cooool....
:D
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hell yeah.... getting your start on your 15 minutes of fame i see... :D :D ;)
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...it's all over with...another storm came thru today...
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it was suppose to have here today...probably wait till i start something.. :D
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Got's it all!!! Can't give it all away make me a reasonable offer 20% of new Ha! less than 2000 kl on em ;D Plus shipping. Might want some other stuff make a list!!!
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i still PLAN on sum parts myself, if i can ever get off my ass and get somethin to play with. :D :D :D :D ;) ;)
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Still got a carb for ya
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it will be a start...if i ever get the dam thing home before you sell... :D
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If your ritch I'll get you a ported jug(exhaust) and shaved head(40 thousants) I havn't got to test it all yet,but will have one up for grabs when done.
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uh oh....im faaaaaar from rich.sounds like i may need a loan for that..lmao...maybe i find me a sugar mama..lmao...
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Latest and greatest I think my high speed dieing is related to the intake or carb so found this today it's for the s9 and cobra going to take a shot in the dark but I think they are the same. If not I'll make it work :D http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html (http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html) . Just runs to good to that point then nothing. Noticed today it's not speed related (pulling a small hill)it's got to be fuel delivery. Here we go again ::)
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Hey, art, with my zx before I bridged the rev limiter you could feel it cutting in, now that I am fully derestricted and partially modded, all is not as good as I think it could be. Now when I get to top speed, around 90-100 she starts feeling like the limiter is cutting in again, do you think the cdi is on its way to dead or maybe something else, I replaced the spark plug cap yesterday and still same.
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I'm still not sure. Mine runs great to the 60+ range in the flats,then nothing It does not sputter or cut like the rev limmiter just shuts down let off and all is fine, I have swapped cdi's with another build and same result so far,may have to try again After the stator died on me.
At this point I'm thinking fuel delivery or timing. I'm going to try a larger capasity fuel filter and a larger intake,could also be the carb is too small (19mm) My thoughts are i'm moving more air at speed then fuel by volume. If this is not it it could be a timming thing and a whole new can of worms,but it could be the timming needs to be advanced when at max speed to keep up with the flow. If this is the case I may have hit a wall without some real knoledge in this area,but i hear ya can get cdi's tuned to your needs,figuring out what your needs are are the problem ;D
Back to what you are expierencing That was the way mine was and got worse untill i had no spark and it was the stator,but kinda the same symtoms as all the for mentioned. ::)
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Yeah, it just started doing it, I was wondering if it was the cdi or running out of fuel at speed. Zombie (I feel, a presence) said that bridging the limiter on the zx is actually a short and by running in that range it will eventually kill the cdi. I guess I will find out soon enough.
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Not familure with the bridging,just have to unplug the green wire at bottom of cdi on the older people's and had to order the cobra cdi for the newer one,which is the same as the older ones ::) for more cash :-\ so don't know if they have a top end or not ???
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..i was just going to ask you, about the "starvation" issue at top speed..
..have you tried a plug chop at that time when it stalls out??
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Ha! no to busy trying not to get a ticket or run over :D but thats a thought next time it would only take a minute the cover is off. It's kinda crazy but with last round of tuneing and running the irridium plug it's now a hair rich over all. I think because if the plug i'm getting a better burn ??? It was a hair lean overall with the same jetting before ::)
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..it wuld tell you if you're starving for fuel or bogging....
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...does it feel like it's falling forward when it falters, or more like screaming high revs??
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Thats the crazy part non of that just no fire sometimes a little sputter(usually means ritch) than nothing just quiet, let off and all is good again. I've been test riding on the busy streets marked 45 mph so may need to go a little more country next ride out.
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..see, i had kinda the same thing with my ppl..
..but that was when i had the crumbling oem air filter in place...
..trash was getting into the carb, so it would run out of fuel...
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Thats my first thoughts i'm running out of fuel or there is another limmiter and spark is being cut or it's a timming thing. I don't know how to get around the latter two so Going for the one I can do something about ;D
The plan at this point is larger capacity fuel filter larger hole in gas cap + orderd a larger air intake.
Probably should do that plug read first though before i get too carried away ;D
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..plug chop...it'll tell you what's happening to you mix right then...
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This is true for the most part,but when my stator was going the plug would come out wet because of no spark ::) Ha! but anouther round of chops is in order.
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i had mentioned something similar with my zx.. i was WOT(hella revs..lol) going downhill and poof......just silence, let off and away we go again.. (seemed like when you let off and she "caught back up" alls fine). i was associating that with a rev limiter but like i would know :D ;) (it had done it on several different occasions) but shes not done it in awhile. now i can go down the same hill at 3/4 throttle and STILL have a better top speed by a easy 5mph. ;D so maybe it was fuel related.????????? even tho i still have the weak ass 14mm carb ........
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Thats what were trying to figure out, It does act like a limmiter,but at high speed and saposed to be derestricted, there could be another limmiter we did not know of because it aint sposed to be this fast ;D I'm hopeing it's fuel related though because i can do something about that.
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you would think fuel, well i would since mine stopped doing it anyway. only jetted/filter since then...
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I'm hopeing it is ;) So going to do all i can to increase the volume,well see ::)
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id like to increase my volume with about a 17.. :D i got faith in ya.. youll figure it before i will ;D ;)
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ha! I might have a 19mm carb up for sale if this don't do it :D
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thatd be nice but i figure that would be overkill if i never kit....
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(seemed like when you let off and she "caught back up" alls fine). i was associating that with a rev limiter
..same here, and it only happened when i had the crumbly air filter insert...
..mine was starving...
..once i put on the k&n, and increased my main jet to a 96, i had no more problem...
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Ya I was not haveing this problem before the tire change, I guess A few things had happened prior to the problems. 1 got some watered down gas from shell 2 the tire change (mph are close to actual now) 3 the stator was going 4 new clutch + bell + drive face and longer belt. So I may of never been reaching this top speed before. Pipe filter carb all fresh and clean no difference. But when running pegged or near it,it's about 5 miles an hour faster than before and thats when it shuts down,let off and like nothing happened. Havn't had a chance to play with it yet today,putting something else together for a friend ::)
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O.K. I played with things a bit today. Mostly an extended ride paying a little more attention,unfortunately I was in the bario and did not want to stop for a real plug chop anywhere!!!
All my problems are happening at high speed so can't just run tests in my driveway.
Anyway I did lean out my needle jet a bit more and had a nice improvement to the 50mph mark I was getting a little sputter around this mark before leaning it out.
I noticed I could maintain this speed all day long at 1\2 throttle or less and could gradualy wind it to the 55mph mark,but if I just pliped it past the half throttle mark I could get hesitation sputter or nothing HMMM. The sputter was leading me to believe it was the main,maybe not!
So i'm thinking the transition from the needle to main is just off and main is too small. Most of my riding is just in town and have been riding without ever realy hitting my main or needing it till I want a top speed run :-[ Wow If I'm right this would be a whole new range.
I have run a larger main in the past but the areche carb has been a pain since day one to dial. In fact it was the reason I joined the forum in the first place and I don't think the needle has been anywhere neer right. I had to cut my own notches to lower it to where it is now and could never get to the next transition smoothly.I'll keep ya posted,but think i'm on to something here and a possible new top speed with all my other mods :o
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..if you could get the taper right on your needle..(smaller)..and run a larger main jet...hmmmmmmmm...
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Not to many choices for the 19mm arreche thought i had ordered the only other but it's the same damn one. I'll try some new mains when i get a chance,probably not today. :'(
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Got to run catch ya later.
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...trustybench grinder...
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Pencil sharpener ,unfortunatly i need one a bit longer i think. To many projects to mess with today and a dr. appointment tomorrow :P
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you guys are starting to sound techy in here. :D :o
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..it's getting down to needle modding...the taper of the needle....
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i still gotta do the shim first..i still behind ;D thats a bit over my head right there .. .. :o ;)
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Well I got around to putting in a bigger jet last eve.(120#) and things didn't go to well. :'( I kept trying to push it past that 1\2 throttle and Pop bang shutter shutter Not good! Something gave out last night (i think crank bearing) It will still pull past the 50 mark but a new vibration can be felt and heard throughout. I knew the day would come sooner or later but hoped not this soon! Iv'e been pushing the hell out of this one for a couple thousand miles and (ALL TOGETHER NOW) ran a bit lean for the first 1,000.(DON'T RUN LEAN!!!) ;D
Still need to do some exploritory surgery,but going to have to put this one on the shelf for awhile. I wanted to put a race crank in it anyway,so this will be my opertunity once i clear up at least half my other projects and get ready for winter here.
My sorta stock build will be next on the list if my machinest ever finish's the job!!! Catch ya later
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WHOA......... :o >:( i hope its not that bad but i guess you know better than i....guess i better recheck my jet. :-\ :D
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and Pop bang shutter shutter Not good! Something gave out last night
..reckon you shoulda got authorization....
:-\
..dang..sorry to hear all that...
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Ha! it's not dead yet but my 100mph dreams will be on hold till i get a race crank. Things been acting up for a bit and noticed a little play in the driven side so alll is not lost yet just a delay for a bit ;D
This bike had a reconstructed title so don't know the actual miles on the bottem half and had been pushing it hard. It was close for a little while there Oh well got the next one to play with although i was more worried about the top going to hell before the bottem :P