KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: EvilTessmacher on July 15, 2018, 02:31:32 PM
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On Friday (the 13th no less!) I turned 600 miles on my way home from work!
Now it's time for that service appointment. I'm not going to attempt it on my own, even though I feel like I could, but am going to make an appointment with the service department at my dealer.
I'll let you all know how it goes when I get Diana back from the shop.
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On Friday (the 13th no less!) I turned 600 miles on my way home from work!
Now it's time for that service appointment. I'm not going to attempt it on my own, even though I feel like I could, but am going to make an appointment with the service department at my dealer.
I'll let you all know how it goes when I get Diana back from the shop.
Does the manual specify that the valves are to be checked at 600 miles?
If so, has the dealer agreed to do the valve check?
How much is the dealer charging for the 600 mile service?
Stig
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All of what Stig asked plus: why do you think the dealer will do a better job than you?
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Got my 600 mile service coming up, too. I plan on doing the fluid changes, valve adjustment, and spark plug swap myself. (More control over what goes into my new motor.) I DO plan on having the dealer run the diagnostics and give it a good "once over". Best of both worlds?...
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Question is do they really check the valves though?
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Okay, let me take these in order...
Stig asks:
Does the manual specify that the valves are to be checked at 600 miles?
If so, has the dealer agreed to do the valve check?
How much is the dealer charging for the 600 mile service?
The manual specifies the following at 600 miles:
Check: Crankcase Breather
Replace: Oil, Oil Filter, Transmission Fluid
Valve Check N/A according to the Manual, so the dealer doesn't need to check. Oddly, no air filter or spark plug check either.
I have no idea of the cost. I'll find out later today when they call me back to tell me the appointment time.
Karl asks:
Why do you think the dealer will do a better job than you?
I don't think they will do a better job than I will. I decided when I bought it that the 600 mile inspection would be done by the dealer so that I wouldn't have to worry about any details, and to show them some loyalty for me getting such a great deal on the bike. I got it for a little less than their cost plus my trade-in. I figure a little goodwill will go a long way.
Gnzbrg touches on something that also matters to me. They're better equipped to do diagnostics than I am, and have all the necessary tools and equipment for that.
Snoopzilla asked:Do they really check the valves though?
Since it isn't on the maintenance schedule, I honestly don't think they will, unless it's part of their diagnostics routine. I don't know that yet.
However, as I said, I will report on everything once I get my appointment time and get her back.
You guys have me nervous now... ::)
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It'll be fine. Have faith in your dealer! No point otherwise.
...says the guy who's previous dealer broke my Suzuki 3 times.
1) clipped panels together incorrectly
2) didn't tighten head bearings
3) aligned handlebars incorrectly so steering lock/parking lights no longer worked
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OK, as I thought. Fluids change and empty the puke tube.
Air filter and spark plug aren't going to be bad in 600 miles (maybe in 6000 for the filter, plugs last a long time these days)
Look things over, check tires, and listen to it start and run.
My dealer wanted $378 for my LIKE200I 600 serv.
No dice.
Figured it couldn't be much more complicated than my VWs.
Whole mess'o scooters out there with plenty of miles on them with untouched valves.
Wouldn't sweat it at 600 miles.
(I would. But that's just me.)
Stig
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Well, Evil, I am about to feed your paranoia! The track record for Kymco dealers is fairly poor and it is all on this forum. It is hard to find but it is well documented. Now, there ARE good dealers out there and they are documented here as well but they are way fewer than the nightmares. Kymco has NO tech school. They figure that since most new Kymco dealers also have other motorcycle lines as well as ATV's there is no need for a special tech school. That has some merit but there are differences that are not well explained in the service manual. Dealers are NOT required to have the analyzer tool! And most of them don't! And resist spending the 200 bucks on one! And fight tooth and nail until the customer gripes and pressure FORCE them to get one! The grand total of what dealer techs don't know about the different models is staggering. Dealers have not been required for quite some time to have any parts inventory since very few parts have ever been required. That's a good thing to know but if you ever NEED a part your dealer will have to order it and usually you will pay shipping unless you are willing to wait for a stock order....a loooong wait!
So how is your 600 mile service gonna turn out? Don't know. I could only guess and that would not be really fair. I hope it turns out well. I, personally, would never send my bike to any of them and never have. I would recommend you MAKE DARN SURE everything is right and not scratched up.
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I think general mechanical knowledge would get them pretty far, IF it were solid. What differences are you talking about?
I could imagine damage to the plastic in particular being easy if they aren't intimately familiar with that particular model. Sort of a design problem in my opinion.
The general impression that I've gotten is that they are extremely... lazy? incompetent? cheap?... about actually diagnosing problems. It sounds like more often then not, they'll just guess and throw parts at the problem (some times installing them incorrectly). And take their time doing it. And charge the customer for THEIR misdiagnosis.
It doesn't shock me then to learn that they resist buying the analyzer tool. That's a diagnostic tool after all.
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Hypo, you are on target! The service manuals are no help in telling anyone how or in what sequence to remove body panels to get to a specific area. We, on this forum, have used general mechanical knowledge to meet and usually exceed easily any dealer shop. I think most of these guys are MMI grads if that that have little or no experience. I think the big problems are with the owners, always in a hurry and really tight with a buck. I thint one of the biggest problems with dealer techs is the same with aircraft mechanics: EGO. Pilots, motorcycle and scooter folks are operators of the respective equipment and generally do not know HOW their machines actually operate. So the mech and techs feel they are superior and can feed just about any bull and we will swallow it. Many times they can shovel a pant load on us and we will leave which is what they wanted in the first place!
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OK, as I thought. Fluids change and empty the puke tube.
Air filter and spark plug aren't going to be bad in 600 miles (maybe in 6000 for the filter, plugs last a long time these days)
Look things over, check tires, and listen to it start and run.
My dealer wanted $378 for my LIKE200I 600 serv.
No dice.
Figured it couldn't be much more complicated than my VWs.
Whole mess'o scooters out there with plenty of miles on them with untouched valves.
Wouldn't sweat it at 600 miles.
(I would. But that's just me.)
Stig
Holy sh**e?!?!? $378 for 600 miles service!?!?!! Here I though $120 was bonkers for my girls Vespa Sprint 600 Mile service. Funny thing is my first service for my VW Golf is only $65 and it uses 6 x the oil
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Holy sh**e?!?!? $378 for 600 miles service!?!?!! Here I though $120 was bonkers for my girls Vespa Sprint 600 Mile service. Funny thing is my first service for my VW Golf is only $65 and it uses 6 x the oil
They had sold several of my LIKE200i scooters - yet they said the cost is high "because they have to go through all that plastic to get to the engine."
I'd never seen the guts of a scooter in my life - but I was holding the feeler blade in the intake valve in 45mins. (now in @20 mins) Dealer was charging 3hrs labor.
Figured they weren't lying....but their serv. computer thinks all scoots are as bad as Burgmans or PCX's to service the valves.
Stig
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They had sold several of my LIKE200i scooters - yet they said the cost is high "because they have to go through all that plastic to get to the engine."
I'd never seen the guts of a scooter in my life - but I was holding the feeler blade in the intake valve in 45mins. (now in @20 mins) Dealer was charging 3hrs labor.
Figured they weren't lying....but their serv. computer thinks all scoots are as bad as Burgmans or PCX's to service the valves.
Stig
Oh I get it now. So I am assuming they are more of a motorcycle/powersports dealer that sells some scoots too, but is more specialized in the motorcycle/powersports kind
Of place right? There are some of them around here. But I am lucky and
Have a place called scooterville, though you still don’t want to bring it in there for service all the time.
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Oh I get it now. So I am assuming they are more of a motorcycle/powersports dealer that sells some scoots too, but is more specialized in the motorcycle/powersports kind
Of place right? There are some of them around here. But I am lucky and
Have a place called scooterville, though you still don’t want to bring it in there for service all the time.
OK, I dug out the paperwork he printed up for me on April 20, 2013.
I think this was the day I bought this scooter. "Say, how much is that first service?"
Price was itemized, printed out for me - $375.35.
Included valves, ride and components check.
And these new parts: NGK plug, airfilter, washer, 2 qts engine oil, 1 qt Honda gear oil, shop fees.
3.5 hrs of shop labor....$315.00
Yes, it's a big motorcycle dealer, but they do sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kymco scooters.
I was a little discouraged when I walked away from that service desk. $375 to service a little Taiwanese scooter.....I was hoping to save $ by owning a scooter!
Frankly, if I'd had that conversation with the service desk before I bought the scooter - I would not have purchased any scooter. Probably would have purchased a Honda motorcycle, like my son did.
Stig
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Oh I get it now. So I am assuming they are more of a motorcycle/powersports dealer that sells some scoots too, but is more specialized in the motorcycle/powersports kind
Of place right? There are some of them around here. But I am lucky and
Have a place called scooterville, though you still don’t want to bring it in there for service all the time.
I can confirm it takes ten minutes to remove ALL of the plastics surrounding the seat bucket, and the same to reinstall them.
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I can confirm it takes ten minutes to remove ALL of the plastics surrounding the seat bucket, and the same to reinstall them.
I can confirm it takes ten minutes to remove ALL of the plastics surrounding the seat bucket, and the same to reinstall them.
I agree that you can get to the valve cover in @10 mins or so. But ALL the plastic surrounding the seat bucket???
Please shoot a video of that happening!
Stig
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Well, I have to say I absolutely did not expect all of this.
Not only have you guys "added to the paranoia" but you've made me downright fearful. ;D
So, I'm going to order the parts and do it all myself now. I really don't want to have to spend more buckage than I have to, since the summer is a little more thin than other times, but the 600 isn't as complicated as I expected after re-reading the service manual and maintenance schedule with all of this in the forefront.
Sigh... I have to wait until the end of the month now, because of work schedule. I'm off from August 2 until the 19th. Maybe now I can get those auxiliary lights hooked up at the same time.
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I agree that you can get to the valve cover in @10 mins or so. But ALL the plastic surrounding the seat bucket???
Please shoot a video of that happening!
Stig
Challenge accepted
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ET, just change the oil and transmission fluid. That's what the tech told me at the Kymco headquarters. I did that and the 400 purrs like a kitten. Clean the puke tube also if it is needed.
Dean
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You have made the absolutely SAFEST decision! You will KNOW it has been done right and your conscience will be crystal clear! You will big in the long journey of knowing your machine's inner-most secrets.
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ET, just change the oil and transmission fluid. That's what the tech told me at the Kymco headquarters. I did that and the 400 purrs like a kitten. Clean the puke tube also if it is needed.
Dean
That's all that's really needed. The Owners manual for my 2009 Super 8 did not call for it's first valve check until 2500 miles. All I did was change the oil. At 2500 the valves where still good. I have made some minor adjustments to the valves over the years but I'm pretty sure that if I had never touched them the motor would still be running fine after 30,000 miles.
Later Super 8's called for valve checks at the 600 mile service. Why? They used the same engine. I think they just wanted to let the dealers make some $$$.
I did my all my own servicing but if I wanted to take it to the dealer he told me it was around 90-100 bucks.
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Could someone please translate "Puke Tube" to Standard English?
I don't see that term anywhere in the Service Manual. ::)
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Could someone please translate "Puke Tube" to Standard English?
I don't see that term anywhere in the Service Manual. ::)
Is it the airbox drain tube?
Clear tube hanging down, somewhat in view, with a black cap on it. Remove the cap to drain the congealed oil mist crud. (I do it at oil change time)
Stig
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You will know why we named it "puke tube" when you drain it the first time!
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Stig, if you're asking me what it is, then you're asking the wrong guy. I've never heard the term.
Karl, I'd have to know what it was, and where it was, to be able to clean it, to know why it's called what it's called.
So don't keep me in suspense... What is it?
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Yes, 'tis the drain tube from the airbox, collecting a foul mix of gasoline, oil and other secret ingredients before they are sucked into the throttle body. The cap on the end has a spring finger clamp which holds the black plug in the tube. This plug needs removing periodically to drain the disgusting collection. Kymco has gotten very frugal on how much tubing they use since the Yager so you really have to look for it. It should be just forward of the CVT case, up out of sight.
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One word of caution: make certain that you keep all receipts for the oil , filter (if applicable), and fluid that you purchase to do the services. If there is a problem that occurs under warranty , you’ll need these as PROOF that the necessary maintenance has been performed. Oh, take a picture (and date it) of the ODOMETER READING when you perform the service . There’s nothing more frustrating than having the manufacturer ask for proof of maintenance, and you have LOST the receipts.
Truth be told, if you are one (like myself) who is prone to losing little odds and ends receipts, , it may be worth it to have the service done at the dealerships,so it will be in their files too.
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I work at a Ford dealership. When our manager has implied to a customer that lack of maintenance, improper maintenance, or a “hatch job†may be responsible for the premature failure of a component on their vehicle, the thing that usually shuts the discussion down allows the customer to hear the words “ok, It will be covered under FORD Warranty “ is “well, Y’ALL did all my services , if anyone messed it up, Y’ALL did. “
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Argh... More stuff to worry about now~!!
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Don’t overthink it man. To be honest, my initial gut feeling if money is not an issue and you don’t have a burning desire to do it yourself is to simply go to the dealer for the FIRST service. You can judge a lot from a dealership just by how they handle that. Have them to perform ONLY the services recommended by Kymco in the owner’s manual. It seems as if they’ve already attempted to establish good will when they made the sale. That may indicate that they are decent people. A person shouldn’t be treated as a crook until they’ve shown that they are a crook. A reputable dealer will do a courtesy inspection to insure everything is still tight.
If you are pleased, then you can return as needed or desired. If not, simply don’t use them again unless absolutely necessary.
That’s just my two cents.
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Agreed.
My dealer was about to overcharge me for a first service - but only because they didn't know that my panels were much simpler
than the average scooter. Apparently Kymco did not provide them with a shop-time book.
A Honda PCX, for sale next to the LIKE does take forever to get to the valves. Same with the nearby Burgmans, and Forzas.
This is what can happen when our only options are to buy from a mega motorcycle dealer.
At a scooter shop that wouldn't happen.
Stig
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Very good points, Forbes and Stig. Very good points.
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Forbes and Stig:
You guys make perfect sense in your inimitable wisdom and valued experience.
Coupled with the fact that I am having considerable difficulty finding anyone who has parts for a 2018, I may just have them do it. I even had someone tell me "There's no such scooter. They don't make a 400." I won't say who it is, but it really surprised me.
I have a couple of days to think about it before I have to commit.
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Agreed.
My dealer was about to overcharge me for a first service - but only because they didn't know that my panels were much simpler
than the average scooter. Apparently Kymco did not provide them with a shop-time book.
A Honda PCX, for sale next to the LIKE does take forever to get to the valves. Same with the nearby Burgmans, and Forzas.
This is what can happen when our only options are to buy from a mega motorcycle dealer.
At a scooter shop that wouldn't happen.
Stig
I bought my first scooter, a used Kymco xciting 250 from a scooter dealer. I found them to be very approachable. I did the fluid services and belt changes myself , as well as replacing the stator. But had I not been a mechanic, I would have felt comfortable with them doing the work based on some other things they did and their reasonable hourly labor rate.
On the other hand, I bought my Majesty from a Yamaha dealer. They wanted to charge an OUTRAGEOUS fee for my first service. 200+ I believe. That consisted of Oil and filter and rear end fluid change and inspection to make sure everything was still tight. (which would have been their fault if it wasn’t) . No other services were due. I wouldn’t have had them do it even if I’d had the money. My fuel gauge was inaccurate. So I wanted them to check it under warranty. They said that it would take 3 DAYS just to CHECK it! Unfortunately, I wrecked it before I got a chance to take it back. If I’d ever needed non-warranty repair that I couldn’t do myself, I would have taken it to my KYMCO dealer.
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My first service was done at no charge it was included in the very fair purchase price, The shop was a scooter and ATV only dealer with many years of experience. They changed oil and checked the valve clearance as well as seeing to the tightness of the suspension bolts. My scoot is still running great after 6 years of service. I had to take over maintenance after 2 years because my dealer had to close due to family issues but I never doubted their commitment to the brands they carried (Genuine Kymco, and TGB). Thanks Albany Powersports, Albany Oregon.
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I was supposed to do my 600mi Service this past week, but I got an email from the parts folks at my dealer. Turns out that my oil filter is still in Taiwan. Apparently, no one in the entire US has one of these in stock, and the bike is so new that there are none available anywhere else except at the "home office" so to speak.
So, I'll be waiting until my filter comes in.
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I was supposed to do my 600mi Service this past week, but I got an email from the parts folks at my dealer. Turns out that my oil filter is still in Taiwan. Apparently, no one in the entire US has one of these in stock, and the bike is so new that there are none available anywhere else except at the "home office" so to speak.
So, I'll be waiting until my filter comes in.
Geese. That sucks. You’d think with a common maintenance part that is necessary they would’ve already had them here
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ET, My dealer got 2 oil filters for the 400 in about a week and 1/2. Try calling Razee's Motorcycle shop and I am sure they can order to a couple. Make sure to ask them for the aluminum gaskets for the oil plug.
https://www.razeemotorcycle.com/ (https://www.razeemotorcycle.com/)
Razee's # 401-295-8837
Ask for parts department.
(They are closed Sun and Mon)
normal hours 10 am -6 pm
Dean
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ET, My dealer got 2 oil filters for the 400 in about a week and 1/2. Try calling Razee's Motorcycle shop and I am sure they can order to a couple. Make sure to ask them for the aluminum gaskets for the oil plug.
https://www.razeemotorcycle.com/ (https://www.razeemotorcycle.com/)
Razee's # 401-295-8837
Ask for parts department.
(They are closed Sun and Mon)
normal hours 10 am -6 pm
Dean
Thanks for the info, Leo... Unfortunately, I don't "call" anyone. I don't do business over the telephone.