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Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: Stargazer on July 29, 2010, 05:23:27 PM

Title: x500 restriction
Post by: Stargazer on July 29, 2010, 05:23:27 PM
Recently thought about my first x500. It was from the first generation, 2006. As I remember, it was restricted to 160kmh or something like that. Now with my x500 2008, I'm not sure if it's restricted too. You guys have any idea?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: ts1 on July 29, 2010, 06:01:45 PM
No restriction with any Xciting.
Official top speed 147kph (with was hardly reached with the slightly inferior carb. model). And still its only 27.5 and 28.2kW.
Until last year Taiwan (Kymco resides there) didn't allow any motorcycles on the highway. Why building a high speed scooter?
Oh, on the speedometer we can see >160kph. But not nearly on the GPS (on flat street, bidirectional averaged).
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on July 30, 2010, 12:28:13 AM
...somebody posted here that their x500 was restricted...

...in the variator??

..can't remember...

 ???
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on July 30, 2010, 02:30:27 AM
Yep, when I was putting my new Dr. Pulley sliders in I found a washer in the variator.  Holds the pulley faces apart a little bit.  That's got to be a restriction but we're not sure if the belt would be long enough if it were removed.  I'm gonna try leaving it out one day.  Mine is a 2007, carburated.

I noticed when putting the variator back on, the belt seemed barely long enough to go around even with the washer in place, but that may be just a feeling I got since the belt IS big thick and tough.

The owner's manual --sorry, Service manual --shows the washer.  The parts catalogue does NOT. 
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Stargazer on July 30, 2010, 01:45:23 PM
No restriction with any Xciting.
Official top speed 147kph (with was hardly reached with the slightly inferior carb. model). And still its only 27.5 and 28.2kW.
Until last year Taiwan (Kymco resides there) didn't allow any motorcycles on the highway. Why building a high speed scooter?
Oh, on the speedometer we can see >160kph. But not nearly on the GPS (on flat street, bidirectional averaged).
Well, I think Kymco thought about selling it beyond Taiwan. I don't think they thought about x500 only for Taiwan market.

As I have  read somewhere, it was restricted by ignition deactivation on 150 or 160 kmh. But it was on 2006 and maybe on 2007. But I have no idea about 2008 and younger. I've made 160 on mine and not sure if I'm able to do more... Never got the opportunity.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: msgtphil on July 30, 2010, 02:26:50 PM
I think what you are referring to is what is commonly called a rev limiter. When the RPM's reach red line the ignition cuts out. It isn't intended as a speed restriction per se, but to protect the engine by preventing going beyond redline. Most all modern motorbikes are so equipped and some of the fastest are set as a speed restriction, in as much as the motorbike is geared so the engine red lines at a certain speed. Seems most companies got together and decided something like 179 MPH as limit for the U.S. market.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: drifter on July 31, 2010, 09:00:07 AM
i think the restriction is in the variator but coz if you do some mods in it your top speed will increase even by putting dr. Pulley sliders. One thin i noticed my 2009 top speed is 165kph stock my dad's is a 06 model and only reaches 160kph. I am 6'2 and 250lbs he is 5'7 and 170lbs....
Redline is @ 8t but mine reaches 8.5t.


Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Dr. Scooter on July 31, 2010, 04:07:25 PM
So the washer in the variator is a restricton or not. Just curious
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: ts1 on July 31, 2010, 06:00:15 PM
According to "Meister Zip" (German Kymco Forum Admin and authorisized Kymco dealer) the washer is for belt protection and should not be removed.
Without washer you would need a longer belt to avoid extensive stretching. More favourable a second market vario.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: drifter on July 31, 2010, 09:37:09 PM
i rem0ved the washer before. All i got is clanking sound so i installed it again but i never tried to ride. I was on stock belt then
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 01, 2010, 01:46:24 AM
One of us should try to find a slightly longer belt then.  And try it with washer removed.  I will try it one day if nobody else does so first.  I just have so many things to do right now I may not get to it for months.  It would have to give a higher top end.  I suppose it might also result in less low end power -- just like putting a bigger front sprocket on a regular chain drive bike.  It's always a trade off, but the 500 has plenty of power to spare -- just depends on how you want your scooter to perform. 

I'd think the longer belt/washer removed set up would give lower rpm for crusing speeds -- better for touring perhaps?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 01, 2010, 01:54:55 AM
..i did just that with my A50...

..increased the belt length by about 1/8"...

..it will definately make your scoot run a higher top speed..

..however, without further cvt tuning, you might find that your mid-range acceleration lags...

..i've been able, by much trial and error,  :-\  to have maybe...finally...found a good combo of rollers and clutch springs...

..it's been a labor of love, i reckon...

..oh, and another thought...

..the longer belt may have a tendancy to flap against your starter bendix..this creates a groove about 1/16" from the inside edge on the o.d. of the belt...

..keep a close watch on it if you go that route...


peace
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 01, 2010, 04:32:08 PM
Don't think the 500 has a bendix in the CVT case.   We will have to look things over carefully to see what else might interfere tho. 
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: art on August 02, 2010, 01:50:55 AM
You should be ok on the starter bendix, most 150 and larger cc are run throught the case from the other side. I had a longer belt in the s200 for a bit and rattled around at idle,but once you hit the gas all seemed to be fine and ran taller in the gears. It was a lone so didn't get to test the longevity. Would like to try a little shorter than the one i had.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 03, 2010, 03:50:26 AM
Would like to try a little shorter than the one i had.

..you NEED one of these i found at my "local" dealer...

..i'm chomping at th' bit to try it on my ppl...

..it's GRREAT!!! on my guilty....
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: iolite on August 15, 2010, 05:09:33 PM
i have removed the washer in the variator and fitted it to the outside so that the length stays the same and that i dont cause damage to the shaft as i torque the bolt. i have noticed that my revs are def. down and I have a better top end speed. I am shure it will improve my fuel consumption! busy checking that and will let u guys know.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 16, 2010, 02:53:34 AM
Excellent, Iolite!  Thanks for experimenting for all of us!  I'm very interested how it will go. 

You are keeping in mind that this MAY be hard on your belt, right?  Well, time and further inspection will tell. 
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: jan.strydom on August 16, 2010, 06:25:49 AM
keep us posted - please
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: sidthesloth on August 17, 2010, 11:55:05 AM
I can't see that removing the washer would change the low to mid performance if you are using the same weight rollers and clutch springs, but it will increase your top speed if using a longer belt. Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 17, 2010, 11:37:26 PM
..i've learned, it's all trial and error....


 :-\
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: sidthesloth on August 18, 2010, 12:33:00 AM
But wouldn't the low range still be the same? I ask to learn. :)
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: art on August 18, 2010, 12:39:52 AM
 All should remain the same except the top. You should be able to climb a bit higher on the veriater to get a taller gear.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 18, 2010, 01:19:52 AM
..i dunno...if there is a bushing..washer..and you remove it...the drive ratio will then change...
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 18, 2010, 01:56:37 AM
I think it would HAVE to change from idle on up.  At idle the belt is now riding higher in the variator pulley and lower in the clutch pulley and gets higher as you rev.
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 18, 2010, 02:00:23 AM
..i agree hoolander...it'll change throughout...
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 18, 2010, 02:13:40 AM
Ok, so it's possible then that you may be almost spinning the clutch fast enough at idle now to almost cause it to engage.  Sound logical?  May need slightly stiffer springs?  As well as maybe a longer belt? 

You know it's pretty cool we've got two guys in different parts of the country doing performance mods on 500s at the same time and both posting results here on this fantastic forum ! ! ! 
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: wordslinger on August 18, 2010, 02:18:06 AM
You know it's pretty cool we've got two guys in different parts of the country doing performance mods on 500s at the same time and both posting results here on this fantastic forum ! ! ! 

..i know..environment makes a BIG difference in the results of any mods...
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: sidthesloth on August 18, 2010, 06:54:17 AM
At idle the variator is open, the belt is at the bottom, the washer only limits how close the drive faces are at the top of the range, full speed, 2,500rpm is still the same, eg. 1/3 the way up the drive face, @ that position the ratio should still be the same?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: ts1 on August 18, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
I'm with sidthesloth & co.
Usually the washer limits only the minimal distance.
It may be build different with an overall effect, but then its removal should be dramatically esp. at the start.
Xcitings idling can be at 2000rpm (cold start) and clutch engages at 2500rpm (at crankshaft with standard transmission ratio).
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: sidthesloth on August 18, 2010, 11:46:03 AM
I think it would HAVE to change from idle on up.  At idle the belt is now riding higher in the variator pulley and lower in the clutch pulley and gets higher as you rev.
But the washer only comes into play at full closing of the variator? When the belt is, say half way up th drive face, the ratio would be the same regardless of wether there is a washer there or not?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 18, 2010, 04:23:42 PM
Taking the washer out immediately closes up the pulley faces by that amount --even when not spinning. 
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: sidthesloth on August 18, 2010, 04:42:11 PM
Ok, sorry for any confusion. I think I have got it now, the washer is behind the drive face, against the crankshaft?
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on August 18, 2010, 05:08:32 PM
Right!   ;)
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: TechGuy on September 01, 2010, 08:30:32 PM
If the X5 is like the P250, the washer goes next to nut.  Here is the image from my service guide

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/TH63t8aDiSI/AAAAAAAAIY4/_jBseeiY2G4/Variator%20Assembly%20Order.jpg)
Title: Re: x500 restriction
Post by: Hoolander2 on September 03, 2010, 02:03:55 AM
No that's not it.  The 500 has one between the pulley faces too.