KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: Super8504T on July 12, 2010, 05:02:37 PM
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Well I can say now I have done a lot to my bike now and after all this modding it still plainly refuses to go past the 70km/h - 43mph barrier, the power just cuts even on down hill as if there is another restriction.
I have:
Derestricted the variator - Got a Polini race one. It has 5.6g rollers which seem to run smooth and fine.
Derestricted the CDI - The violet/pink wire is cut (only one) and is tapped up.
It has been upjetted to an 82.
It has a new Leo Vince exhaust which yesterday I also removed the manifold cone from so the exhaust is now derestricted (I thought that doing this would solve the problem but it hasnt it still cus the power at 70km/h.
I cant think of anything else that would need doing to it ???
Please help ??? :-[
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What does your plug look like An 82# seems small,A larger carb maybe,If cuts out down hill sound like cdi is not fully derestricted.I dont own this model just some thoughts
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I too think it maybe the CDI not fully de-restricted. But I dont know how as its already had the pink/violet wire cut ???
I may try a bigger jet.. an 85 is also recommended in these so I may try that.
But that shouldnt cut the power down hill should it? Having too small a jet?
Something else must be seriously restricting it still :-[
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...wow dude!!
..you're running LEAN!!!!!
..you should be somewhere around 90-95.....
.aannd you need to put a free flow air filter on it in a really bad way...
..STOP RUNNING until you do some plug chops, and increase that main jet!!!!
..stand the chance of burning your piston with that 82 jet with a de-restricted aftermarket exhaust!!
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Thats what i was thinking,and thought you only cut one wire,not both.Bigger jets and open air to make it work right,your in the danger zone!
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...i can see the airbox sucking in at the edges :o ...
..so, saying that, get rid of it!!
..you shouldn't really install an aftermarket exhaust until after, or as you install a free-flow filter...
...gotta suck if you plan to blow!!
..that's your next step, to get some air into your carb...
..you got a strange situation, that will be very difficult to make right without more air....
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Wow! Can one of you recommend a specific free flow airfilter then that will fit my bike?
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....K&N RC-2290 air filter ($40.00)..
..from the K&N website...
"http://www.knfilters.com/search/univcone.aspx"
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Thanks.. I have bought a race CDI for my Super 8 4 stroke which has the same connection as mine. It says it provides 18% more horsepower! ;D So this maybe sort out my 70km/h barrier as it maybe the CDI that is still restricted somewhere so with a race derestricted one it shoul run around 50mph.
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You still need to jet,Don't blow it up before all your parts arrive
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I know I got an 85 jet.. the garage put in a 95 jet last time and apparently it ran worse in mid-range so they fitted an 82. So I shall try a 85. But I think it maybe the CDI that is restricting it...
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..i think an 85 would still be lean....
..there's a BIG difference between 85 and 95....
..hell, theres a big difference between 82 and 85....
..you got two guys here telling you to open that jet, super....
....and i still say you are going to have to get rid of that stock airbox to get ANY increase in performance, since you already have the leo exhaust, and have modified it!...
..don't ruin your scoot by running lean...it will be very costly to repair....
peace
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I have got a K&N style cone air filter: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Scooter-Air-Filter-K-N-Style-Angled-Fit-Chrome-SMALL-/230485596587?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item35aa0319ab (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Scooter-Air-Filter-K-N-Style-Angled-Fit-Chrome-SMALL-/230485596587?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item35aa0319ab)
But I dont know whether it will fit my carb boot properly. ???
So what jet do you suggest then.. 87.5?.. 90?
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..RC-2290 is the K&N part number for the filter you need..same as my agility504t...
..with the filter and the exhaust, i would start at 95, do plug chops and adjust from there.
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..RC-2290 is the K&N part number for the filter you need
Ok I bought one of these now.. £28 where I am.. with this installed, a 90 jet and a derestricted/unlimited Race CDI (Which I quote "On test machine 18% more horse power".)... what speed do you estimate I will get??
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I do not have your model but would expect 85 to 95 km/h,once you have this all installed ,you may need to tune your tranny a bit,heavier weights,get all the rest going first let us know how it went.Good luck
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Thanks. Will do. Are you talking about 85-95km/h on a flat? Wht would you expect I get downhill?
I have 5.6g rollers in at the moment. I also have 6.9g rollers that came with my variator.. would they be ok for good topend?
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Yes on the rollers will lose some take off,un limmited down hill if derestricted,could actually go faster in the flats with proper tuneing i don't have your model to be sure.might be able to go to even heavyer on the wheights 7.5g mayby,get bike tuned first,tip do one change at a time so you know what did what egzactly.
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..i believe that S8 4t tunes a lot like the A50...
5 gram rollers might just kick ass!!!
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So your suggesting 5g rollers? Surely they wouldnt give good top end though?
Ive just got to wait for the air filter and race CDI to arrive now.. I wont upjet it until I install the air filter. I just hope it allows 50+ all or if not most of the time on the flats.
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....4.7 grams in my 2008 agility 50 4t with 49,000 miles runs 52 mph on a decline...gps verified...
..70 kmh should be a breeze...
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Help again please guys!! ::)
My race CDI has arrived.. I plugged it in and all is fine.. it has taken away the 70km/h barrier and I have managed to nearly get 50mph down hill out of it. All is fine on that note is ha no limitations at all. But there is however a stumbling block.. the race CDI only has 7 wires conncting to it. Where as my connector has 8. The wire that the CDI has missing is the Lighting Control Unit wire for the lights and now whn I use the Race CDI my low/high beam lights dont work but my sidelights do work. This is a bit of a pain as I need my lights. The Race CDI doesnt accomodate for the Lighting Control Unit wire and so the wire has nothing to go to it is serving no purpose.
Here are some pics:
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt178/waltonsteve/SNC00242.jpg)
The Red and Black wire is the Lighting Control Unit wire and has nothing to go to.. nothing is connecting to it on the CDI.
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt178/waltonsteve/SNC00241.jpg)
As you can see the CDI only has 7 connectors.
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt178/waltonsteve/SNC00239.jpg)
And again.
Any suggestions you guys can make to get my lights working ad keep myRace CDI without putting my stanard CDI back on ???
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I would think the lights would run to the rectifier and have nothing to do with the cdi.the pink wires were the ones you were sopposed to cut to derestrict the stock cdi.(just one or the other)I would take a look at the bulb see if you burnt it out.If your rectifier was unplugged or had a bad connection while running it would burn the bulb immiediatly(I know from exp)Check your rear break side running light also if it is out you may have somehow run unregulated power to them,Thats my guess
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The stock CDI pink wire was cut for ages and I still had the 70km/h barrier and so I then cut both and removed them completly from the plug connector and still would not do anything :-\ Thats why I bought this race CDI.. works a treat now. It must have higher rev limitations.
As for the lights problem I have solved it.. I just followed these steps fo bypassing the light control unit: http://www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178768 (http://www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178768)
All is fine lights work fine apart from when the scooter is idling the lights do not dim because there is no lighting control unit to dim them.. so they just stay at normal power all the time which is no big deal really. At least they work.
Down hill I can reach 50mph.. but on the flat speed is no different.. so can I just upjet to a 90 without putting in the air filter? Or is the air filter what holds all the horsepower? I'm asking this as I want to keep my MPG reasonable and fairly economical but with a bit of umphh on the road to fairly keep up with traffic ???
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Nice,learn something new all the time.The jetting is to compensate for the airflow must do both.You can experiment with some smaller jets and some holes drilled into the stock airbox.The people benifited greatly from a #85 main and One 3/8" hole almost 6mph indicated.Your veriater and rollers may be holding your top end down at this point also
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Thanks.. I might just try that.. does the airbox have any restrictions? Or in the carburetor? And where do I drill the hole in the airbox.. the main box which covers the air filter? I might try an 85 with that drill hole.
As for the variator I was trying to find out which rollers worked te best this morning.. strange enough the heavier 6.9g rollers didnt gain as much top speed as the 5.6g rollers.. I nearly got to 80km/h with 5.6 rollers and with 6.9 I only managed about 77km/h if that. 5.6 is a good balance I think as it provides good acceleration with good top end but I am trying to increase my top end but not go too heavy and make it worse so I was thinking 6g rollers? Is this a good choice?
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...sounds like you're dialing it in bro!!!
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...sounds like you're dialing it in bro!!!
:D
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does the airbox have any restrictions? Or in the carburetor?
...dunno about your specific airbox, but yeah, some of them do...
..it's a disc, that can be removed...there's pics of it somewhere in th' forum....
..the restriction that's in your carb is the main jet...
..with a race cdi, and an aftermarket exhaust....you should be around 90, i'd bet...
..get rid of that airbox, and install a free flow, K&N type filter, and you would probably need to be around 95...
..that would open your scoot up, and you would get better performance overall...
..from acceleration all the way up to top speed...
..with good cvt tuning....
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Yeh I've got a few jets now. A 85, 90 and 95 so Ill try the 90 for now.
My K&N air filter is supposed to be on its way but the guy rang me up to say it was out of stock and so Ill have to wait a few more days for them to receive more stock. So thats really all I'm waiting on now. But with a 90 jet and a free flow air filter and quite hard clutch springs and 6g rollers what speed do you estimate I would get on a flat considering I get about 60/62kmh - 38-40mph at the moment ???
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...45+..on some flats and slight declines...
..50+ downhill...
..wind speed and direction will forever be the 50 4t's enemy, or it's best friend...
..you will need to adjust your idle mix a bit, and you should learn to do plug chops to fine-tune your mid and wide open throttle mixes...
..these jet sizes we throw out are in the ballpark, but every scoot is different...
..plug chops are the only way to know..for sure..how your fuel is being burned...
..once you get a handle on what your scoot does, you will be able to tune jets almost by ear....
..it's "tuning", as you would an instrument...
;D
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Right.. thanks for the info wordslinger!! ;D
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..want to hear more success stories........
;)
..makes it all worth while...
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Tuning is the art,
Don't run lean.
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Hey guys...
Well the good news is this.. my K&N air filter arrived today.. I razzed that on and changed my main jet to a 90. I then cranked the engine.. it took a bit to get the fuel through to the carb as the float bowl was drained.. but it edventually kicked in. I took it for a ride and WOW!! 40 mph on a doddle.. 43mph is like you say wordslinger "a breeze" :D It will do 45 when Im not a flat and down hill Ive hit 49 but I think my rollers are holding my back on that as the engine is revving it guts off so Ive put my 6.9g back in so it should do about 50-53 down hill then..
But heres the bad news... I didnt even get to tesy my 6.9g rollers down hill.. I never made it out of my road when the engine just cut out.
Its the idle mix I think as when it is stationery sometimes it will not rev and the engine will make an awful knocking noise and if you try to really rev it it would just cut out :-\
Sometimes it will just do it all the time on idle so you cant rev it to get going.. thats when I had to push it back to my house.
Sometimes however it is fine and it will rev.. but other times it doesnt :'(
I thought it was the jet I put in that was not right.. so I then put in a 85.. problem was still there.. then I tried a 95 and the problem was still there ??? Baffling.
I think it is definately the idle mix.. I tried adjusting the idle mix to get tbest highest idle but it wouldnt alter the idle. Proble was still there.
I dont know what it is as it will not rev at all now :-\
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but I think my rollers are holding my back on that as the engine is revving it guts off
..sign of being lean...
...i hope...upon hope...upon hope that you didn't burn something up by running too lean...
..dude, you should be over a 95 jet with the K&N and a modified aftermarket exhaust.....
..i'm running a 100 jet in my A50 with a k&N and a modified stock exhaust.....
..the knocking you describe does not sound encouraging....
..i think you might need to get you a compression tester....
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Ive got the 95 in at the moment.. gone through the manual and it says to adjust idle mix and adjust the pilot screw in the carb if engines idles roughly and runs poorly. So Ill try that tomorrow I think.. it was working fine this afternoon.. occasionally it would do the on idle but other times it was fine.. I think its cause the mix is too lean? With the air filter bringing a large amount of air in.. the pilot screw cant supply the same amount of fuel to regulate it?
So maybe I need to richen them.. ::)
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..if it's just at idle, then yeah!!...you do need to adjust the mix...
..close the idle mix screw completely, clockwise (not too tight)...then open it 3 / 3-1/2 revolutions counterclockwise....start the scoot there...then close it 1/4 turn, and see if the idle revs higher or lower...
..gig the throttle a cpl times after each adjustment...continue closing the screw until your idle reaches it's highest rev, then back it down 1/4 turn...
..then adjust your idle speed screw to get a comfortable rpm at idle...
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Yeh thanks.. I just hope it is this.. which I think it maybe as it starts (only just) but doesnt rev so its got to be something to do wit the idle.. because this afternoon I was at traffic lights on idle.. came to rev up and nothing was there.. it wouldnt rev with a pile of 20 cars behind me!!! :o
So I killed the engine then give it 1/2 throttle on startup and off it went fine as a whistle.. its just getting it off idle.. very difficult it has become. ::)
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could also need to adjust your needle position on the slide if possible,hope for the best should not ride if a lean condition is presant.Check that plug,may also want to do a thero carb clean when you have it opened up again.For restart after carb bowl is empty you can help the bowl fill faster by (sucking the tube) the vacume line to the petcock.
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..gotta suck that tube!!...lol..
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Lol.. what will adjusting the needle poistion do and how do I do that?
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...raising yourneedle will create a richer fuel mix during acceleration through mid throttle...
..you gotta remove the cover from the top of your carb to access the needle and diaphram and slider...
..some needles are adjustable, some arent...my a50's oem carb's needle is not adjustable...
..do you have any numbers printed on top of your carb??
..might can save you the trouble if i can figure out which carb you have..
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Hmmm hard to explain the needle is the long needle looking thing at the bottm of the slide(the thing that go's up and down in the carb body) some carbs allow you to move this needle up or dawn with a clip setting.moving the clip up one notch will lower the needle thus leaning the 1\8 to 1\2 throttle responce going down one notch will raise the neddle thus richening this part of the carb circuit to 1/2 throttle. on mine i found the more mods i did i had to change it for it was sputtering like crazy just off idle till i got to the main jet part of the circuit.
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On the top of my carb is numbers something like: IT-LEJ2 or something like that not too sure but it is defniately LEJ2.
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...whoa...thatsa new one.....
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All is good :D
Spent 5 hours trying to sort her out.. the just put my 90 jet back in and put the carb needle back in place and bolted everthing back together again then woohoo! It started.. but wouldnt rev past 25-50% throttle.. great!
So I had a look at the needle and diaphram again took it all out and put it all back in again.. this time success! The engine rev'd freely.
All the lovely power is back :D
However.. one more problem!!! Your all getting sick of all my problems now :D
My race CDI was working fine yesterday.. all was good with it.. then when I washed my bike.. water leaks in the battery compartment because the battery floor cover is not completely watr tight which is a bit silly ::)
Now today my race CDI wont start my bike as I think water might of got in it as it was a bit wet.. not soaking just a bit wet.. and now it wont start my bike at all so Ive had to put in my standard CDI back in which is restricted to 70km/h.. another question regarding that as well.. all of you say to cut the pink wires which I have done to take away the rev limiter well I had one of the pink wires cut and and is still restrcited so the I took both of the pink wires out and it still restrcited!! Why is it still restriciting me to 70kmh?
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cant answer your question on the cdi derestrict you seem to be the only one this is affecting.the new cdi not working is not good check all connections again if not working see if you can return it.Once again keep a close eye on the plug reading,#90 main still seems way too lean,you have done the open air and pipe #95 is usually a bit lean.What elivation above sea level are you.We do this for fun cause the pay aint much ;) ;D
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:D Lol
Im just under 300ft ASL. I know it maybe lean.. but my engine seems to be running ok at the moment so I dont want to open up the carb again and start messing, chaning jets with it again because more than likely something will go wrong again :D
Im just baffled as to why my standard CDI wont go over 70km/h.. Is there anything anybody can suggest to do to the standard CDI to derestrict it?
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some were cutting an internal wire but you should not have that one I think theres a link in the a50 threads on how to do it,still think your to lean.plugs, plugs, plugs.must read.
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...honestly, if the pink wire doesn't do th trick, then i dunno...
..it could be a blessing in disguise...
..anytime you makes these drastic mods, you really should do a plug chop or two...
..could save you a cpl or three hundred bucks in the future....
:o
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I know I know :-\
I just cant understand why the CDI is limiting me to 43mph.. it will not go a tad over 70km/h.. the red line. It's strange because I had the two pink wires on the exterior of my CDI wiring. I cut one.. still the same.. now I've removed the whole loop so there is no more pink wires.. still the same!! Once I cut the pink wires their should be no rev-limiter should there? So the bike should go as far as it possibly can and not cut out at 43mph. There's definately another restriction in the CDI somewhere. Surely?
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Just checked my plug.. I was a bit hesitant cause I can never get the bloody thing out ::)
But anyway looking at it it's good news.. it has a nice tanned brown colour with a ring of black on the base ring indicating is it a bit on the rich side!
I thought it would have been really dry and whiteish colour because I thought I was running lean with my 90 jet but appears not! Good spark plug so far!
Adjusted my idle as well it doesnt want to idle very well at the minute.. but turned the idle mix 4- 1/4 turns out to lean it out a bit to take away the richness of the black ring on the plug a bit. But I would say around about normal as far as mixture is concerned. Just proper adjustment of the carb now to get it all right :)
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Cool. I was expecting to see a white melted mass of sparkplug in there ;D The spark plug is the key to all your tuneing.
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Yeah so was I.. thanks guys for your help :)
Just a bit baffled and annoyed at my race CDI breaking on me.. but I guess I will just have to be limited to 43mph for a while now I suppose :-\
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check for the internal wire cut process have another on order though ;)
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Internal wire cut.. what do you mean by that?
It robbed me of £115 pound!! So I most definately can't order another one anytime soon :-\
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damn! check the a 50 forums can't say it will work. have heard it can with some other models. I have not verified it though
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...cut a notch about 1/4 inch deep in the edge of the casing...
..on the a50s and some other cdis, there is an internal wire that must be cut to derestrict it....
..like this...
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Ok.. it wont damage it though will it.. its the only one I have now!
Also mine had the pink wire to the exterior.. would it be worth cutting it?
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Soumds to me like the 50 4T engines are a real pain in the ass to mod....... >:(
I only want 85km/hr dammit!!!!
Josh.
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Don't know if it's safe or not super,but since nothing else has worked I suspect you have this in your scoot,look at the pic and see if it matches yours... Pink wire to the ext? I just went throught a s200 and pulled one wire at a time till I found the right one,because no one has the info out yet. You can remove these wires from the houseing with a small screwdriver incerted in the bottem between the plug and terminal and a little twisting and pulling
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My CDI is like this with the eight pin connector and the two pink wires (which I have removed from my connector now so it only has 6 wires.
(http://www.gusdeluxe.info/Catalog/images/kymco-super-8-performance-cdi-tuning-gy6.jpg)
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/billed0293.jpg)
Im just a bit aprehensive because I know that once CDI's have been modded they have a tendency to either fry.. mysteriously get water in them or just be in the mood to not work ::) :P
I might try it.. but with what??
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Yours does look different I dont know ??? some of them you just have to replace. What is this pink ext wire you mentioned,mayby try that one first.
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Hey bud, here's a pic of my CDI & Connector.
My CDI looks the same, however my Connector is different....
I went for a really good ride tonight (around 1:00am actually) and this is what i figured out...
On the flat, my stock (variator bush replaced/unrestricted) Like 50 4T was doing 75km/r.
On a slight downhill slope, however, I managed to get the scoot up to 87km/hr.
Now here's my thought..... If mine was restricted, wouldn't I feel the rev-limiter cut in and spoil the fun?
Or at least, stop the acceleration.... In my car, when the rev limiter cuts in it goes "bap bap bap bap" really fast (like 10 times a second) as it kills the spark intermittently and will not go any faster unless you change gear or back off the loud pedal. It doesn't slow down.... It just hits a "wall" and won't budge an inch.
My scoot does none of that. I think the only thing holding mine back on the flats is breathing (inlet & exhaust), and fuel supply (bigger carb is on its way) ;D
I'm starting to think mine doesn't have a limiter.
Josh.
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Id say your not restricted usually kicks in around 40 mph here in the states,you would notice it, there are no restrictor wires in your pack at all. Cool!
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So is there any point in trying to track down a "Race CDI"?..... More Power? Advanced Ignition Timing? ... any of these so called benefits true, or is it just a "Sales Pitch" from guys trying to flog their wares? ???
Thanks for the help btw,
Josh.
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The pink wire is the two in the picture.. the
violet wire on the plug connector Ive taken them
our completely.. so no pink wires are on the CDI plug conbector
so theres really nothing else I can do to derestrict it apart from
cutting into it or buy another race CDI.. race CDI did provide me m
provide me more horsepower and no limit speed. With the current standard one sxo
scoot is more sluggish :/
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Hey jbc once derestricted the stock seems to be fine,unless going for race mod you should be fine.
Super I don't know what to tell ya,the violet on some is the one. You are the only one I've heard of with this problem ??? Then some guys like jbcinzio just luck out got a model probably for another market (Score!)
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managed to get the scoot up to 87km/hr.
..if you can get that much, then it's not restricted.....
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I experimented a bit before and decided to re-connect the pink wire loop to see what it would do.. it restricted the bike to 31mph.. I then took it back out and it allowed 43 mph.. I think it is the standard CDI that is programmed to allow no more than say 7000rpm or something.. buying a race CDI allows higher rpms and so more speed. I think that is the case now.. to just get a new race CDI when I can.. my current race CDI is buggared. Still wont start the bike.. its had it I think.. short circuited :-\
Do any of you know of any "cheap" race CDI's for the Super 8? Dont fancy paying in the £115 region again :P
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Damn! did ya try any other wires. mayby order another reseal and send back ???
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...maannn, don't buy "cheap" if you can stand it..save your pesos and buy a good one....
..there are "gy6 50" parts and there are "performance" parts...
..your kymco will love you for shelling out a few extra skins for the better parts...
peace