KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tseg on February 23, 2017, 08:05:54 PM
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About 2 months ago I bought a Kymco Super 8 R50 for my son. For it supposedly being durable this one has been quite temperamental. For one, if it is below 40F we really need it to warm up for well over 5 minutes or it has stalling issues while driving (within a few hundred yards of driving). Also, we have experienced when trying to restart the scoot when the engine is warm it has difficulty restarting sometimes. Most recently my son hit a bit of a bump pulling into a parking lot and the scooter died... there is power to the dash and headlight but there is not a peep to the starter and cannot kick-start it, both at the time of the incident and we just tried it again today with no luck. This happened while I was traveling a couple days ago, so the bike is still parked in that parking lot. I'm now home and my wife is telling me I need to walk this bike home a mile since my son has already had to do a similar walk of shame twice before. She is really mad I bought a Kymco and wonders why I did not buy a Yamaha or Honda. The dealership is over a half hour away. I actually just order a motorcycle carrier today for my wife's Grand Cherokee, assuming at some point I'll have to take this thing in.
When I walk it home tonight I'll put it back on the trickle charger to see if that does anything... I checked the battery cables and fuses and they seem in order. I'm thinking a new battery probably won't do much. My wife wants me to just "give it back" but I doubt the dealership will comply... the Super 8 now has 28 miles on it. I did a ton of research and really thought I was making the right choice. This has been a really unpleasant experience. Any suggestions before I take it in? If the darn thing would only ride my son would be loving it.
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hit a bit of a bump pulling into a parking lot and the scooter died... there is power to the dash and headlight but there is not a peep to the starter and cannot kick-start it
Should at least kick-start if there is spark. Check if right-grip switch is in run position, SIDE stand is retracted, then pull off sparkplug boot and insert a 2nd plug to verify grounded spark. If no joy, check that ignition coil spade connectors (http://scootdawg.proboards.com/post/547957/thread) are tight.
Cold fuel does not atomize well, so the engine may run rough until engine heat has warmed up the gas in the carb bowl. If gas tank water condensation is suspected, add around 3 tablespoons of Iso-Heet when refilling.
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If the scooter has a "dead spot" on the throttle after it is warmed up, the carb needs cleaning. It wouldn't hurt to try the battery charger. I would also drain the fuel tank and put in fresh fuel. In my experience, Kymcos are a quality scooter on par with Honda. ( I have both) I am sorry you are having this problem and please let us know if you find anything.
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Your scooter is new and under a 2 year warranty! I would suggest to call the dealer at first and talk to him about all the problems and discuss further actions.
Kymco is a pretty reliable brand and the scooter itself is also good if serviced and set up properly.
Most of the time the dealers are the bigger problem...only few do faithfully the pre-delivery check.
What fuel do you use? What does the user manual say you are allowed to use? Be very carefull with ethanol fuel! I personally would try to avoid it wherever I could.
How old is the scooter? I don´t mean when you bought it, I mean when was the scooter manufactured (see chassis number)? For how long has the scooter been sitting at the dealers showroom or garage...
Some Kymco scooters need a good carburator cleaning procedure and readjusting by the dealer BEFORE delivery to the customer.
After 2 month of ownership even the battery is under warranty I would assume (6 month warranty?).
And if you mess around by yourself with the scooter, you might loose your warranty very quickly. So be careful here.
Doesn´t the warranty for such a short period of ownership cover the tow or pickup by the dealer in case of breakdown?
Interesting story though. Pls keep the community informed. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8GBYJuLig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8GBYJuLig)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egdXaQdLQLg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egdXaQdLQLg)
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Update: I walked the scooter home and put it on the battery tender for an hour. The tender was still red, nonetheless I hit the ignition and it started up. I'm thinking the battery is not holding a charge, but not sure I can explain why it would not kick start? The scooter was new-old-stock, 2015 model with zero miles on it. The scooter was delivered to me mid-December, a little over 2 months ago. The dealer said it was a new battery installed during prep.
I'll call the dealer tomorrow and see what they say. I filled the tank up 2 months ago with 93 octane and right away put in some Stabil... there is about 3/4 of a tank now and 28 miles on the odometer. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any gas stations around that sell non-ethanol. Maybe there is something carb related, but there is something battery/electrical related to. Could a new battery solve all problems? One other key point, where we live, my son rarely goes on a trip longer than 2-3 miles before stopping. As a result he typically starts it up, lets it idle for about 5 minutes, then takes a 5-10 minute trip. I know this is not ideal for an engine. Maybe I need to tell him to take a few laps every other time he take it out to put 5-10 miles on it?
Next time we start it up should we put some carb cleaner in it?
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Can you test the battery with a multimeter? What´s the Voltage you read? Especially when you try to start the scooter by hitting the starter button? Does the Voltage then break down? Then the battery is bad.
Kymco puts in their scooters cheap chinese noname batteries with sometimes reduced durability, so I would recommend to buy a better quality battery anyways. Good investment into a careless future. :) Talk to the dealer and negociate with him a nice discount for a new quality replacement battery. ;) Yuasa MF or maybe a Shido or Shorai LiFePo Battery. Those are great, strong and lightweight batteries and totally maintainance free. You don´t even need a tender in winter and very little selfdischarging over month.
If you know what to do, you could of course clean the carb yourself with carbcleaner. But why? Your under warranty. And if the scooter stalls and breaks down in the middle of the road, the dealer has to tow you or pick you up. Its as easy as that. Or not?
But maybe a new battery might solve all of your problems. Give it a try if you want.
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you could of course clean the carb yourself
Anticipate tamper-resistant fuel bowl fasteners.
http://youtu.be/MLpkf2LINzo (http://youtu.be/MLpkf2LINzo)
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If it's under warranty, simply let the dealer handle EVERYTHING! Don't touch ANYTHING other than charging the battery. Don't give them ANY excuse to void the warranty. I would take it to them , tell them what it's doing, and let them fix it. Even if you CAN fix it yourself, don't.
That's my advice. Always give the dealer a CHANCE to do the right thing.
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Anticipate tamper-resistant fuel bowl fasteners.
http://youtu.be/MLpkf2LINzo (http://youtu.be/MLpkf2LINzo)
Thanks for that input. Wasn´t aware of that issue - to be honest. So it´s even more critical for a DIY experiment under warranty. :-\
So another good reason to let the dealer fix the scooter. :)
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Kymco puts in their scooters cheap chinese noname batteries with sometimes reduced durability, so I would recommend to buy a better quality battery anyways. Good investment into a careless future. :)
Unfortunately my Kymco dealer is about an 80 mile round trip on a highway so any "deal" he may give me on a replacement battery probably does not overcome the cost of the round-trip. Yes, the OEM battery from the dealership has Chinese writing all over it. I think I'll just buy a good new battery locally... if issues persist I'll load it up and take it to the dealership for warranty work.
BTW, is there any harm in keeping the Battery Tender Jr. attached for long periods of time? Is it "the more the merrier" or "use only as necessary"? I'm assuming if the scooter runs only 2-4 miles each day it may make sense to plug into a tender nightly?
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If it's under warranty, simply let the dealer handle EVERYTHING! Don't touch ANYTHING other than charging the battery. Don't give them ANY excuse to void the warranty. I would take it to them , tell them what it's doing, and let them fix it. Even if you CAN fix it yourself, don't.
That's my advice. Always give the dealer a CHANCE to do the right thing.
This is good advice... while I plan to try a new battery I'll make sure to keep the original... if problems persist with the new one I'l just slide back in the old one when I take it to the dealership. If the dealer was just closer I would not hesitate to run this scooter up to them.
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If you are dealing with hard starting in colder weather. you need to adjust the gas intake screw. that's if you have a unsealed carb were you can get to it. turn all the way in then back out 2.5 turns don't go any more then 3 full turns that will be way to much. if need to you can always back in .5 turn at a time. You also may need a bigger jet like a 82 or 84 .
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A new battery is always a good thing......
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If you are dealing with hard starting in colder weather. you need to adjust the gas intake screw. that's if you have a unsealed carb were you can get to it. turn all the way in then back out 2.5 turns don't go any more then 3 full turns that will be way to much. if need to you can always back in .5 turn at a time. You also may need a bigger jet like a 82 or 84 .
It starts in cold weather, but if not warmed up properly it will stall when accelerating.
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You are all good .thats just the kymco warm up.its just like warming up a car or truck sometimes they need it.
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Yeah, I'm with Forbes here.
Touch nothing. Take it back to the dealers and tell them your not happy with your recent purchase and let them sort it out.
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Latest development:
I called the dealership and explained my issue. The tech explained since it has a gel battery and the tender turns green that likely the battery is not the issue. He said 95% of the time if it is the battery it would not turn green/fully charged. He suspects some type of short that draws power... interestingly the headlight does not go dim, just power to the starter disappears (and the scooter cannot be kick-started). I then went to my garage and started it up without a problem (coming off the tender) and it idled for 15 minutes while my son was putting on his clothes. My son got on the scoot, turned it around to exit the driveway and as soon as he gave it gas, the motor cut out. Then, nothing, hitting the starter button made no noise in the starter... no cranking, nothing... kick-start, nothing. The headlight was still bright. The fact it starts every time coming off the battery tender, and usually ramps up to full power initially, but this time we had a long idle, makes me think it is not a carb issue. Upon reflection, it almost seems somewhere ~ the 15 minute mark it cuts out and can't start again unless tendered again.
At this point I have a battery, a bottle of Sea Foam and a scooter carrier en route to my house via the mail. I'm thinking I'll be returning at least the battery (or will it keep if I don't use it for a few years?). I'll be loading up the scooter and making the lengthy trek to the dealership.
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Latest development:
I called the dealership and explained my issue. The tech explained since it has a gel battery and the tender turns green that likely the battery is not the issue. He said 95% of the time if it is the battery it would not turn green/fully charged. He suspects some type of short that draws power... interestingly the headlight does not go dim, just power to the starter disappears (and the scooter cannot be kick-started). I then went to my garage and started it up without a problem (coming off the tender) and it idled for 15 minutes while my son was putting on his clothes. My son got on the scoot, turned it around to exit the driveway and as soon as he gave it gas, the motor cut out. Then, nothing, hitting the starter button made no noise in the starter... no cranking, nothing... kick-start, nothing. The headlight was still bright. The fact it starts every time coming off the battery tender, and usually ramps up to full power initially, but this time we had a long idle, makes me think it is not a carb issue. Upon reflection, it almost seems somewhere ~ the 15 minute mark it cuts out and can't start again unless tendered again.
At this point I have a battery, a bottle of Sea Foam and a scooter carrier en route to my house via the mail. I'm thinking I'll be returning at least the battery (or will it keep if I don't use it for a few years?). I'll be loading up the scooter and making the lengthy trek to the dealership.
40 miles one way is really not that far. I drive 45 miles ONE WAY to work DAILY. So once you get the carrier simply take it to them. It's likely electrical---something to do with either an intermittently loose wire or a bad or misadjusted switch. At any rate, they are the ones to sort it out. Once they sort it out, I'd find out what they did, so if it occurs again after warranty, then you may want to fix it yourself.
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After buying a scooter carrier and ratchet and soft straps I finally made the 40 mile trek to the Kymco dealership. Two days later I got the call that they found a wire was not hooked up to the alternator. They attached it, tested the electrical and said all is now working fine. I suppose that would explain why the motor would always cut out after running for 15 minutes and couldn't be restarted unless charged again? Does that sound right to you guys? Hopefully this simple fix is the fix. A little disappointing in the build quality that such a thing would happen. Over $100 later for transport apparatus and 2 Saturday mornings down the drain (plan to pick it up next Saturday as it is snowing significantly now) hopefully this will be my only bit of bad luck with this machine.
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Look on the bright side and be happy that it's fixed now and Spring is right around the corner to enjoy your scooter. I went through something similar recently and drove 800 miles to get my scooter fixed, cost 235 for repairs, spent hundreds on fuel cost and gave up 2 Saturdays trailering my bike back and forth across Texas to get it fixed. I'm not down about that though as the grin on my face as I ride my new to me scooter is priceless. Enjoy your ride and don't look back on all your troubles. Someone else has got it worse than you, the one who is scooterless.
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Tseg, A wise man once said, "If it's got wheels or wears a skirt. it's gonna give you trouble." Don't lose faith in Kymco, they are quality machines. That same thing could , just as well, happen to any of the Japanese scoots. I hope that now it's fixed good and no more walks of shame for either of you. Might want to get yourself a Kymco so you and your son can enjoy a Saturday morning ride together, when it warms up... Good luck
Mac
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I've proposed to The Shop they transport my scooter back to me since they delivered a Day 1 defect. As they say, "Its not the problem, its how the problem is handled whether you can have a customer for life". We'll see how they respond. The good news is the service rep didn't immediately kill the proposal... had to speak to a manager.
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I've got a Super 8 150. When it was new it started having problems starting. With a weak battery even the Kick starter may not do it. I took it to the dealer, under warranty, and they found a mis routed wire that had been damaged and was causing the battery to n ot charge properly. They fixed the wire and replaced the battery fixing the problem.
More recently I had some more issues. I thought they were carb issues until it refused to start. It turned out to be the CDI. Replacing that made it run like new again. I have over 26,000 miles on it.
Bottom line here is that it could be a lot of things causing your problem. I'd take it to the dealer.
I run 87 octane gas with ethanol. 93 octane is just wasting money. Ethanol normally won't cause problems if the scooter gets ridden regularly.
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Hey Tseg,
well done. Good to hear that your problem is solved and that you and your son are facing many many troublefree miles from now on with the scooter.
Good move also with your proposal. At least within the first 6 month the dealer should pick up and bring back the scooter for severe and rare failures like this.
Especially when they didn´t do the pre-delivery check as they should have done. But sadly enough they almost never do it. The weakest link in the chain is always the dealer and this fault could have been avoided pretty easily. Same thing with early damaged misrouted wires. So unnecessary if the dealers would just do the checks correctly before they deliver the vehicle to the customer.
So what I do when I buy a bike or a scooter or a bicycle, I ride it home carefully and then check all the wires I can get to and their routings myself and the torque of some important screws and bolts and do proper adjustments myself if necessary. Because as I said, dealers are too lazy, they almost never do it. They just want to sell quickly and earn the quick money. It´s the same game all over the world.
Sometimes I have that scecial gut feeling, that some of the dealers leave out the checks on purpose, so they can make some extra money with warranty repairs. But that´s a whole different story and of course hard to prove.
So a helpful advice could also be to choose your dealer wisely.
Anyway, let´s hope the best for you, your son and your scooter now. ;) :)
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Hey Tseg,
well done. Good to hear that your problem is solved and that you and your son are facing many many troublefree miles from now on with the scooter.
Good move also with your proposal. At least within the first 6 month the dealer should pick up and bring back the scooter for severe and rare failures like this.
Especially when they didn´t do the pre-delivery check as they should have done. But sadly enough they almost never do it. The weakest link in the chain is always the dealer and this fault could have been avoided pretty easily. Same thing with early damaged misrouted wires. So unnecessary if the dealers would just do the checks correctly before they deliver the vehicle to the customer.
So what I do when I buy a bike or a scooter or a bicycle, I ride it home carefully and then check all the wires I can get to and their routings myself and the torque of some important screws and bolts and do proper adjustments myself if necessary. Because as I said, dealers are too lazy, they almost never do it. They just want to sell quickly and earn the quick money. It´s the same game all over the world.
Sometimes I have that scecial gut feeling, that some of the dealers leave out the checks on purpose, so they can make some extra money with warranty repairs. But that´s a whole different story and of course hard to prove.
So a helpful advice could also be to choose your dealer wisely.
Anyway, let´s hope the best for you, your son and your scooter now. ;) :)
I don't know how scooter manufacturers operate. But with automobiles the manufacturers REIMBURSE the dealers for the PDI (pre delivery inspection). And they provide a list of the things that are supposed to be checked. The amount varies depending on the particular vehicle. But Ford reimburses the dealer around 1 hour per vehicle.
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I suspect that Kymco reimburses the dealer for the inspection as well. BUT they likely don't get done. At the FORD OF dealership where I work, some of us do the inspection. And some techs simply pull the vehicle in the shop, take the plastic off the seats, and send it to the car wash. We're supposed to put about ten miles on them. But some don't.
I suspect that the scooter dealer has techs that simply install the loose parts and pull it around the front. I know that's what was done with my Yamaha majesty. They told me they had test driven it, but when I took delivery, it had EXACTLY 1/10 mile on the odometer! My test drive was the 100 miles from the dealership to my house. Luckily, nothing major was loose.
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I suspect that Kymco reimburses the dealer for the inspection as well. BUT they likely don't get done. At the FORD OF dealership where I work, some of us do the inspection. And some techs simply pull the vehicle in the shop, take the plastic off the seats, and send it to the car wash. We're supposed to put about ten miles on them. But some don't.
I suspect that the scooter dealer has techs that simply install the loose parts and pull it around the front. I know that's what was done with my Yamaha majesty. They told me they had test driven it, but when I took delivery, it had EXACTLY 1/10 mile on the odometer! My test drive was the 100 miles from the dealership to my house. Luckily, nothing major was loose.
Sounds like this "dealer prep" charge is something that the dealer has largely already been paid for! :-[
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Glad you're fixed!
Man, that was a 'take-it-back-to-dealer' issue all the way.
If they wouldn't/couldn't fix it....then you give Kymco customer service guy a call.....and if he's left the country, or Trump won't let him come home from Disneyland, THEN you start home fixes!
It is a darn shame you & your son had to go through that with a new scooter.
Left-over scoots' warranty starts the first day it is registered for use on the road by the new owner....no matter how long it sat unsold on dealer floor.
Stig
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Well, I finally had some free time to make it back to the shop to pick up my scooter. They refused to deliver it. Of course my only free day was a rainy day, to add to the fun. Nonetheless, the Super 8 is back home... but because it is raining have not got to put it through it's paces. I did let it idle for a long time while checking everything out. The idle now seems to be much more strong and consistent throughout 15-20 minutes. Previously, as the scooter idled longer it also would start to idle weaker. I thought that was just the CDI backing off on the choke as it got warmer. Unbenounced to me, this was actually the scooter dying a slow death as the battery drained. According to the repair order "a starter wire was disconnected underneath the headlight"... "also found output side of the charging system of the regulator was disconnected from the main harness." I guess my scooter must have been made on a Monday? Hopefully these fixes do the trick.
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Glad they found the problem. I figured that it would be relatively simple. I work at a Ford dealership. And from time to time we receive a new car that has some part that isn't quite attached correctly. It's particularly frustrating when it's electrical.
But If we perform the Pre Delivery Inspection properly, we discover most of these problems BEFORE the customer takes delivery.
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Yup. Frustrating in the simplicity of the issue causing months of challenges, but glad it is that than a more structural issue. Pleased to report (knock on wood) the Super 8 now runs like a champ. No starting/running issues. Now performing as well or better than I hoped it would when I initially placed the order to buy it. A great scooter.
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Great news. Hopefully years of trouble free service will cause your early troubles to become a distant memory.
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