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General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: speedyscoot on June 18, 2010, 12:05:28 PM
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Hi all, new here,
I'm working on a 2009 2T People 50 with only 890 miles. It cuts out after about 30 seconds of full throttle. It acts like the ignition has been switched off unless I drop the throttle back to lower position and it will stay running. It will idle and go to half throttle all day long but as soon as I go to full throttle it will rev up but then eventually just cut out, no pops or backfire, just off !
I have had the carb off, cleaned it and checked the float height.
Drained the gas and put fresh in.
Checked fuel pump / filter and fuel flow.
Drained float bowl as soon as it cut out and had plenty of fuel drain out.
Checked spark, which is good right up to the point of cut out.
Replaced ignition coil. (just for the hell of it)
Replaced CDI.
All the above work made absolutely no difference. Could it be that the pick up / stator is at fault by not advancing ? or possibly a stuck reed ? Any insight greatly appreciated as I'm now stumped ! ???
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I have seen many 2t engines do that from low compression. 890 miles is just about new but ANYTHING can happen. Try doing a compression test. You should be over 100psi. Also just for the heck of it install a NEW spark plug. There could be a bad resistor in yours. Welcome aboard speedy
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Hey speedy is It happining under a load or on the stand.You are sure the oil is flowing to carb.What size is the main jet. (get an #85 as soon as posible)Is the cdi derestricted.The newer peoples are realy restricted the pipe is chocked down quite a bit couldn't go over 35mph on mine when I first got it.Welcom to the forum!
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Try with the air box off and exhuast to rule a blockage out.
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..try holding the brake levers in or pressing the "passing" headlamp button...
..when i do either of those, my rpms increase...and continue to increase as long as i hold the levers or the button...
..and i can gig the throttle, and rev th' hell outta my engine...
..other than that, it will just idle....all day if i would let it...
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I have seen many 2t engines do that from low compression. 890 miles is just about new but ANYTHING can happen. Try doing a compression test. You should be over 100psi. Also just for the heck of it install a NEW spark plug. There could be a bad resistor in yours. Welcome aboard speedy
Did compression test this morning and got a reading of 125 psi with throttle wide open so top end appears to be ok. I swapped plugs also but still no change.
Try with the air box off and exhuast to rule a blockage out.
Tried with airbox removed...just quits a little sooner. Not sure I want to try running it with exhaust removed though but I will remove it to check for any blockage or restriction.
Hey speedy is It happining under a load or on the stand.You are sure the oil is flowing to carb.What size is the main jet. (get an #85 as soon as posible)Is the cdi derestricted.The newer peoples are realy restricted the pipe is chocked down quite a bit couldn't go over 35mph on mine when I first got it.Welcom to the forum!
It's happening under load wihin about 30 seconds of full throttle and on the stand within about 1 minute. Haven't checked main jet size yet but I can't think why that would have an affect if the scooter ran fine for 890 miles. I've tried the CDI with green wire disconected and still no change. Surely with no oil it would just sieze which isn't the case here, spark plug is a nice tan color but I will pull the line and check for oil just to make sure.
..try holding the brake levers in or pressing the "passing" headlamp button...
..when i do either of those, my rpms increase...and continue to increase as long as i hold the levers or the button...
..and i can gig the throttle, and rev th' hell outta my engine...
..other than that, it will just idle....all day if i would let it...
I tried cable tieing the rear brake lever when running it on my lift to keep the motor under load which gets it to act up quicker but wasn't able to keep it running at full throttle unless I backed off, let it idle for a bit and then throttle it again. All seems fine up to about half throttle for longer periods. I'll try holding the front brake and flicking the passing light switch while standing on one leg and sticking my tounge out :P ...sorry I need a bit of humour here before I set the thing on fire!
Thanks everyone for your input and please keep your suggestions coming...can't let this little basterd beat me !
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I asked about the main because i have owned 4 of the peoples 50 and everyone has had a difrent jet.The newer ones seem to be too conservitave.If your local temp is in the 80 plus degrees it may be running too lean.The cdi stock is restricted and is supposed to cut the power at at certain rev,usualy about 40mph,if your cdi has the green wire coming out the bottem of the unit unplug it,if not I had to order the unrestricted one for my 2009.A short run without the pipe will not hurt anything and will let you know if you have some blockage in the pipe.The oil if not flowing fully can give you a soft seize,than act fine when cooled or less load.My guess your starved for fuel(main jet too small or pluged)or cdi cutting the spark(not derestricted)Although wordslinger does have a new prob iv'e never seen,might want to follow his post.Hope that helps Good luck
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Here's an update after spending a few hours tinkering this morning. I rechecked the carb and made sure every oriface was clear again with carb cleaner and compressed air, it is with out a doubt all clear.
Latest of the symptoms: While riding the bike for almost a couple of minutes everything is fine, full throttle no problem....then at a stop, gradually the idle started to get lower and lower until she died. Tried to fire back up, turns over, fires up but not long enough to stay running. Let it rest for about 2 minutes, fired up and rode it back home and then sure enough at a stop the idle got gradually lower until it stopped.
Put it on the lift and went through the same routine with it stationary on it's stand and ran it untill it petered out. Imediatly checked for spark which it has. Checked for siezure, turns over fine and compression still good. Drained carb, fine, plenty of gas. Tried again with choke wires disconected, no change.
I've seen this symptom before on other scooters which turned out to be a break down of the ignition coil or cdi when hot, however I've replaced both the coil and cdi and unplugged green wire with no change. Although it does have spark, the plug is now a very dark brown color but not oily or fouled. I'm not sure If the spark is breaking down at higher load / rpms. Does anyone agree that it could be stator/ignition pickup related ?
On a side note, the main is a 75 so I will certainly get an 85 and change it out along with leaving the green wire on cdi disconnected which I'm sure will increase performance although my gut feeling is that this won't cure the initial problem. I still have the exhaust to remove and inspect for any restriction, so will report back if I find anything there. Thanks guys !
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I had a simular problem with another brand,had spark but was weak all caused by the kill switch.Disabled kill switch and all worked great,might want to give that a shot.I'm kinda stumped at this point.Seem you've coverd all the bases.I have heard of the fuel filter under petcock causing problem like this also(too small a mesh?) .The fix is to remove the filter and run one inline.
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It sounds like you covered all the bases Speedy. The cdi, coil, and stator can all show the same symptoms. You eliminated two of them. Do you have the service manual? Carry an OHM meter w/ you, Before starting the scoot take a base line reading on the stator. You should have 2-3 numbers to watch. AS SOON AS the scoot dies re-read the numbers. You may have a collapsing field inside the windings. I have replaced dozens of stators w/ the same symptoms. Just checking for spark won't cut it as you may still see spark, but it may not be enough to ignite a hot/lean engine. W/ all else you have done this is the only thing left!
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I asked about the main because i have owned 4 of the peoples 50 and everyone has had a difrent jet.The newer ones seem to be too conservitave.If your local temp is in the 80 plus degrees it may be running too lean.
That kind of worries me. I have a 2009 and I don't know what size main jet I have in it. I have about 1700km on it. Could I pull the plug to see if it is running lean?
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Yes you can. The plug should have a tan to coffee color on the electrode. White is no good as that is too lean, and black is too rich.
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..mine's like coffee...with just a drop of creme...
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Just like a fine woman!
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No doubt,I'd take a look at the main jet anyway an #85 should work good for the stock bike +
give you a little more power in the flat and on the hills.
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It sounds like you covered all the bases Speedy. The cdi, coil, and stator can all show the same symptoms. You eliminated two of them. Do you have the service manual? Carry an OHM meter w/ you, Before starting the scoot take a base line reading on the stator. You should have 2-3 numbers to watch. AS SOON AS the scoot dies re-read the numbers. You may have a collapsing field inside the windings. I have replaced dozens of stators w/ the same symptoms. Just checking for spark won't cut it as you may still see spark, but it may not be enough to ignite a hot/lean engine. W/ all else you have done this is the only thing left!
UPDATE: Tried the above test which gave mixed results but cast enough doubt for me to go ahead and order a new stator as I had suspected this as the possible culprit from the begining anyway. Stator arrived today and after install, every thing is back the way it should be - easy starts, nice idle and gets to up to speed with no cutting out. ;D
Thanks again for all the tips and advice !
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Glad to see you running speedy! Stick around, andn you might be able to sort out the next fella's problem!
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Hmm. Ok I'm having a performance issue myself (slower acceleration, engine cuts often cuts off right after starting up). I did a compression test as well and consistently got 125psi, but the tech manual says it should be around 168psi (11.8kg/cm2). Were you told that 125psi is good compression? I've got an email into my dealer to see if 125psi is a good figure for a People 50 2stroke. I'll post an update once I get that info.
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First, welcome to the forum mclordhelmet. Not sure about compression specs on the people 50 2t.
Just a word of advice, this thread is almost a year old. Start a new topic. You'll get a lot more responses and it makes the forum a lot easier to use.
No big deal though. Good luck with your question. Lots of expert advice on here :).
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I took your advice and posted my problem to a new post. Here it is - http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=4631.msg47403#msg47403. (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=4631.msg47403#msg47403.) Hopefully I will get some good responses. ( :
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I ust read through this post and not knowing anything about engines all what you guys have said and named is all confusing to me...I'd like to learn more about this cause I ride a motorcycle myself and should be versed in small engine repair...anyone can recommend a good book for dummies?