KymcoForum.com

Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: 5029lee on June 17, 2010, 08:55:46 AM

Title: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: 5029lee on June 17, 2010, 08:55:46 AM
hi, i have had a new battery and if i have it on a battery charger my kymco kicks up fine, leave it over night and i cant get it to kick up, charge battery again it kicks up,(only needs a little charging about 10 mins) cant get it to kick up of kick start,and scooter will run if i disconnect battery so i think alternator's must be fine any clues, cheers lee
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: sticlistul on June 17, 2010, 11:53:24 AM
did you try an other battery ?? maybe your battery is loosing power , but it's not always from the battery ,at me after this winter didn't want t start at all at button ,I even put the car battery and nothing... just from kickstarter ,but after a kickstart and warmup the engine the button starts at a simple push ...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: zombie on June 18, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
Put an amp meter between the battery terminal and the cable to see if there is something drawing power when the switch is off.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on June 19, 2010, 02:04:32 AM
...it's probably the starter motor...mine did the same thing, and i found that the starter's magnets had broken free of the casing...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: joeboy on June 20, 2010, 03:57:21 AM
Sounds like the battery has a bad cell, ive had this before with a new battery.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: joeboy on June 20, 2010, 04:43:31 AM
I forgot to mention you also need to check that the machine is charging when it is running.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: oswaldters on July 08, 2010, 09:59:51 PM
Speaking of starting problems, I am also having problems getting the electric starter to work.

I have tested the battery - it is fine, fully charged, and putting out the correct amps.

I have tested the alternator - it is fine and keeping the battery charged

I removed the starter and it spins freely when I turn it with my hand.

Strange thing is sometimes the starter kicks in fine, sometimes it simply makes a clicking noise, sometimes it does nothing.  I can never predict what will happen when I try the electric starter.  I borrowed a battery jump starter and whenever I put that thing on, the starter works great.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on July 08, 2010, 10:12:08 PM
..yeah, i would suspect the starter motor, again...

..since i got my people, and am using the starter from my A50 on it..

..it's clear that the 4t engine requires a lot more work out of the starter motor than a 2t...

..especially if the 4t's idle mix isn't "spot-on"...

..the magnets came loose from the casing with my a50 starter...

...i rebuilt it with parts from a junker chinese scoot i have...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: oswaldters on July 10, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Yep, that sounds about right.  I discovered that hitting the starter with a hammer makes it work for a while.

Looks like it's time for a new starter.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on July 10, 2010, 08:00:26 PM
Looks like it's time for a new starter.

..or a bigger hammer...

 ;D

..post back with the results!


peace
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 05, 2010, 08:29:07 PM
when i press the electric start on my scoot the bendix spins untill it hits the big cog then stops is that lack of power in my battery? Help please
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 05, 2010, 09:38:48 PM
..in the other thread you said the bendix is spinning counter-clockwise, right??

..it should spin clockwise, i do believe...

 :-\
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 05, 2010, 10:29:24 PM
it is spinning anti clockwise but if it spun the other way it would not come out to bigger cog have i bought a sh**ter lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 05, 2010, 10:32:03 PM
..i have no idea what you've bought...

 ;D

..give us some history on your scoot...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: oswaldters on August 05, 2010, 10:56:08 PM
Finally solved my starting problem.  I did replace the starter - took almost 3 weeks to get it shipped from Stadium Yamaha.  Scoot starts great now.

I even took apart the old starter to see what was going on, but couldn't figure out what the problem with it was. 


Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 05, 2010, 11:00:54 PM
..i just made a short vid on bendix and drive face rotation...

..i'll post it as soon as youtube processes it...


peace
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 05, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
thanks a lot you bin a great help
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 05, 2010, 11:06:11 PM
I even took apart the old starter to see what was going on

..yeah, stadium has a cpl-3 week lead time on oem kymco parts...

..but you KNOW they're going to work..

..my magnets detached from the outer casing of the starter motor...

..i had an old junker Marshin, that i used parts to make a whole starter...

..the whole rebuild process is not for the faint-of-heart...and i'll not do it again...  ;D

..i too have a starter motor ordered from stadium, right now...waiting........
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 05, 2010, 11:08:57 PM
...here y' go jay....


bendix and drive face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TTyw8lECw#normal)
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 06, 2010, 08:49:34 AM
get in!! I have watched video and sorted the problem it spins the rite way now...but still when it spins and hits the big cog it stops so its gotta be lack of power in bat me thinks
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 06, 2010, 09:32:53 AM
...can you turn the drive face by hand??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 06, 2010, 09:56:14 AM
no not at all but now the f***in bendix is spinnin the wrong way again i dont no what to do lol any ideas
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 06, 2010, 10:46:39 AM
i have just put a starter pack on the bat and tryed to start it the bendix is now spinnin the rite way but not comin out so im guessing the spring is sh** in bendix i have a new one but dont no how to get (drive face) off lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 06, 2010, 05:37:23 PM
You will need an impact driver and a 17mm socket for best results
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 06, 2010, 06:23:27 PM
whats a impact wrench lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 07, 2010, 01:39:49 AM
...can you turn the drive face by hand??

no not at all

..you SHOULD be able to turn your drive face by hand!!!...

..wrap it in a hand-towel, or put on a glove and try....

..that sucker should turn fairly easily at one point and become a bit more difficult at times, as cylinder compression increases...

..but it MUST TURN!!!...

 :o
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 07, 2010, 04:24:10 AM
  Ha! Yes the drive face should spin!!!  To get the nut off the drive face an inpact wrench is your best bet something like this.  http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/impact-wrenches/1-2-half-inch-twin-hammer-composite-impact-wrench-95098.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/impact-wrenches/1-2-half-inch-twin-hammer-composite-impact-wrench-95098.html) . If the starter gear is not holding the drive face and still not able to spin you have another issue! (Not good) Try pulling the plug to relieve the compression.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 02:32:26 PM
impact wrench lol bit of brute force did it but my starter motor spinnin and so is the new bendix in the write direction finally but as soon as it hits the drive face it stops its difficult to turn...any ideas on how to make it easier to turn coz i no it will start then please help lol???
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 07, 2010, 03:37:43 PM
..if you can't turn your drive face, then there is a serious problem...

..take the spark plug out and then try to turn it...

..spray a bit of penetrating fluid into the hole the plug came out of...



..again, a little history of your scoot might help..

..what happened when it quit running?

..did you buy a scoot that isn't running?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 03:50:51 PM
ye i bought it as a non runner for 20 pound lol the guy who had it before me said it was the starter motor that had gone it was runnin upto to the day the starter motor went witch i no is true....i have changed starter motor and bendix witch are both workin fine now i will try n put some wd 40 into piston head and see if that makes it easier but i did take spark plug out earlier and it made it a little easier hopefully it will do the trick a you think it will work??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 07, 2010, 03:58:48 PM
...maaannn..i doont know if it will or not..

 :-\

..how long did the scoot sit without running?

..inside or outside??...

..got oil in it?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 05:35:05 PM
i need to put some oil init but cant afford it at min got a little init n its not been runnin for 4 week n its in my house i just want the f***er runnin lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 07, 2010, 05:59:58 PM
..you may have a big problem...

 :-\

..that drive face should move fairly easily...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 06:04:41 PM
well fingers crossed then for me lol ill let you no if i get anywhere lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 07, 2010, 06:52:45 PM
  Does not sound good. You may have anyone of the following things going wrong. Frozen stuck valve,rings and or crank bearings. Sometimes with a little luck and patience you can reserect from the dead. Must lube clean the best you can and get thing moving freely. The old timmers used to use a fuel grade oil for this.(I have not tried this!) They would put it in the oil fill hole and down the spark plug hole and turn the motor over by hand to work it in. Remove battery and coil you could be making a fire bomb  :D . Someone may know of a better product. Try to work it in untill things free up,may take a day or two,than again it may be too late.  Good luck!
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 07:39:16 PM
the drive face does turn its just stiff thats all 
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 07, 2010, 07:55:06 PM
 It is attached to your crank output. The stiffnes is internal and needs to be freed up to be a reliable runner. Try removing the belt and re attaching the cover to get it to turn over with the kick starter(with plug removed) and see if it loosens up some.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 07:59:43 PM
one problem it dont have a kick can i not get to it through engine n lube it up a bit?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 07, 2010, 08:30:40 PM
    Ha! yes you can,if needed you can use the nut on the driveface and a ratchet to turn counter clockwize leave the plug out. Just some cheap motor oil may help.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 07, 2010, 10:08:54 PM
i have wd 40 so i just spray it down piston head and were else? Then turn anti clockwise
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 08, 2010, 12:33:18 AM
..if you put the nut on the shaft and drive face, you will have to turn the crankshaft clockwise, to keep the nut tight on the threads...

..also, put a washer behind the nut before you do all that cranking...

..again, you said you knew this scoot to be running 4 weeks ago??

..then the starter quit??

..i'm beginning to think it was never the starter.....


 :-\
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 08, 2010, 07:14:34 AM
it was the starter coz it would not spin at all
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 08, 2010, 02:08:40 PM
have done what u said n its so much easier just need a new bat for it now to start the pissin thing  and is it to dangerous to jump it of a car?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 08, 2010, 03:38:57 PM
finally i have a runnin scooter lol happy days for me bit of tlc did the trick thanks for the help  ;D
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 08, 2010, 04:33:07 PM
 I use my car to jump scoots often.  Got it going,well alright,did you do any thing in paticular or just get lucky.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 08, 2010, 06:22:02 PM
1/4 of a can of wd 40 in piston head n sat for a hour turnin drive face by socket and it eased up jumpede it of a other scooter and it started just need a new bat for it and is there any other way of de restrictin scoot by hand apart from cdi coz i dont have a axe saw and apart from exhaust???
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 08, 2010, 10:39:42 PM
 may just need to unplug the green wire at the bottem of your cdi, got a pic.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 08, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
i on my phone so it wont let me upload one but it a 2006 agility 50 does that help?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 09, 2010, 08:27:27 AM
 I don't have one of those so can't tell ya. Word should know.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 09:31:00 AM
word?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 10:38:10 AM
..what color are the wires going into the connector of your cdi, jay20??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 10:53:36 AM
its the 4 stroke model and on the one with the 4 connecter bit there is a light green wire a blue n yellow one n a black n yellow one on other there is just one black wire does that help?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 07:43:58 PM
no then
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 10:25:38 PM
...you must cut the end of your cdi to derestrict it...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 10:29:43 PM
i have seen quiet a phew pics on here but have you got any vids that u could post i just dont wanna f*** it up lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 10:34:08 PM
...you really cant screw it up if you make it look like this...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 10:42:20 PM
..my dealer did this to mine, so you see there is nothing there you can harm...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 10:45:31 PM
why does that one have such a wide cut in but would a thin axe saw blade do it? N how far into the copper wire do you go?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 10:47:49 PM
..a thin cut will work...the wire is about 1/16"-1/8" deep, right in the edge...

...just cut it..you'll be very pleased...

 ;D
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 09, 2010, 10:57:56 PM
is the copper wire obvious to see when your cuttin into it? And i cant go threw the wire? I a pain in arse lol just wanna make sure i do it write
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 09, 2010, 11:02:05 PM
..you may never see it, as sometimes the cutting tool drags plastic over it, making it hard to see...

..it's a very small strand of copper..

..there's nothing you can hurt in that area..

..no, you're not being a pain..lol..

..many ppl are a bit apprehensive when it come to cutting on their scoot...

..TRUST ME! (famous last words  ;D  )..you cannot go wrong if you cut like in the first pic...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 09, 2010, 11:05:53 PM
 ;)   ;D   ;D
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 10:59:08 AM
lol i have attempted to do cdi n think i have f***ed it up on mine the copper wire looked like it was rite at top but i have gone threw it is it a bit further down or what?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 01:27:15 PM
..how far down have you cut?

..have you tried the cdi since the cut??

..you my NEVER see the wire...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 01:41:02 PM
bout 1/2 cm deep into it n not tryed it yet but there was a copper wire rite at top of mine but i already cut threw it.....r u supposed to cut threw or into this copper wire coz may be bit of a prob if i cant see it coz of all the sh** lol??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 01:42:31 PM
..YES!!!..

..Try it out!!

..You're gonna LOVE IT!!

 :D
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: codger78 on August 10, 2010, 02:20:41 PM
BEWARE...of using just any old battery charger.  The scooter battery should be charged using a battery keeper.  The keeper charges to a measured amount needed to maintain the battery at the proper level.
ALSO....watch out for those inexpensive solar chargers that while trickle charging during the day (if the sun is out) will, without the proper and more expensive electronics allow the so called charger to drain the battery during the dark hours.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 02:56:36 PM
thanks for that but my prob is the battery is totaly flat so i guna jump it off another scooter soon n leave it runnin for a phew hours and see if it charges the bat
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 02:58:05 PM
word...if the cdi works when i start it what should i cover the slice up with?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 03:04:40 PM
..tape, or some epoxy...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 03:17:39 PM
epoxy? Is that some kind of silicone?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 03:32:18 PM
1 step forward 2 f***in steps back my fuel gauge dont work any ideas how to fix this new problem lol??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 08:59:16 PM
what are bigger jets????
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 10, 2010, 10:08:32 PM
clickin on this is just sendin me to reply page
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 10, 2010, 10:57:30 PM
OopS!!! try this http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#main (http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#main) jets
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 11:03:31 PM
what are bigger jets

..a jet is the port that fuel, from the bowl of your carburetor, is drawn up thru, into the airstream from your air filter..the fuel is atomized there, and sucked into the combustion chamber of your engine's head thru the intake valve...

..when installing a free-flow air filter and a performance exhaust, you must increase the diameter of your carb's main jet, due to the increased air flow, to keep your fuel mixture from becoming lean...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 11:20:07 PM
epoxy? Is that some kind of silicone?

..kinda, but a bit of silicone will work too...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 10, 2010, 11:21:13 PM
1 step forward 2 f***in steps back

..so, did the cdi cut make a difference??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 10:29:20 AM
o yes it did i was pushin just over 30 before now its doin 40 witch i rather happy with now i guna get a big boy exhaust k&n n bigger lets so mite get a nice bit out of it n what jets would you rate would be best
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 10:39:43 AM
do you no of any sites based in britain?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 11, 2010, 03:05:57 PM
 There are many in britain but i use SIP in germany. For many of my parts here in the states.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 06:33:38 PM
o my god just bin out on my agility 50 that i bought for twenty pound derestricted the cdi and have just done 50mph how is that possible?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 11, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
  Ha! more is posible   :o   Keep an eye on your plug,don't want to run lean!!!
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 07:14:43 PM
good things come to those who wait yer rite just been out again n i was doin 40 n it just started slowin n lost all power and died what is this now???
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 11, 2010, 07:16:57 PM
Check air filter,plug and fuel supply
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 07:27:20 PM
will do cheers
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 08:01:28 PM
what does runnin lean mean?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 11, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
  If your main jet is too small the motor will run too hot and can damage your scoot.
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 11, 2010, 11:38:06 PM
how much abouts is it guna be coz if its a lot i just guna sell the scoot?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 12, 2010, 12:22:17 AM
 All free except the new plug
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 12, 2010, 07:20:06 AM
how is it free?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 13, 2010, 02:03:18 AM
how do i get it free?-?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 13, 2010, 02:08:34 AM
how do i get it free?-?

..just take it when nobody's looking!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 13, 2010, 02:37:23 AM
i dont no what im takin lol n what size do you say is best? N what can i do to keep engine cooler or is that coz of jets?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: art on August 13, 2010, 05:10:20 AM
  It's free to do your own tuneing,clean the carb,check your fuel filter,drill some holes in the pipe lots "OH" free stuff. Just got to mess with it! AND BIGGER MAIN JET!!!
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 13, 2010, 11:16:39 PM
i dont no what size jet im supposed to get?? And what do i clean carb with? N were does the bigger jet go?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 14, 2010, 09:26:23 AM
is the fuel filter that little white thing between the two pipes n how will i no if there is out wrong with it?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 14, 2010, 10:49:13 PM
??? To both questions? Lol
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 14, 2010, 11:46:33 PM
what does runnin lean mean?

.."lean" is when there is not enough fuel in the fuel/air mix that is delivered to you engine's intake and combustion chamber, via the carburetor......

..it causes an extremely hot ignition, and can actually burn through your piston...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 14, 2010, 11:49:30 PM
i dont no what size jet im supposed to get


..you must perform "plug chops" to determine if you jet is of the correct size...
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: wordslinger on August 15, 2010, 12:15:25 AM
is the fuel filter that little white thing between the two pipes

..ummm..yeah..i think so...

..pipes??

..do you have a copy of the A50 mservice manual??
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 15, 2010, 09:28:56 AM
no dont have service manuel n the white thing between petrol pipes n what u mean plug chop?
Title: Re: STARTING PROBLEMS
Post by: jay20 on August 16, 2010, 02:57:24 PM
is sad to say my agility 50 is goin it more trouble than its worth may get the rs 125 tho