KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: gregp on June 14, 2010, 02:12:40 PM
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I decided to switch over to an Iridium plug this weekend, and was trying to figure out which one to get for my 2004 People 50.
The stock plug according to the manual is a BR8HSA. I saw references to both an Iridium BR8HIX and BPR8HIX, so I sent an email to NGK and received this response today:
"The iridium equivalent of the BR8HSA is the NGK BR8HIX stock# 7001. The BPR8HIX has a longer firing end making it possible to contact the piston and possibly cause overheating of the ground electrode due to it being longer. Hope this helps, thank you."
Just wanted to throw this up here and see which plugs people are using and how they are working out.
Thanks,
Greg
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That is an interesting response. We have a plug but it won't work! Hmmmm... I don't use the iridium but I found you can put in any plug you want as long as the physical sizing is the same. I run a completely different style plug from the stock one and have a much happier scoot. I forget the #'s but will post it here so you can get an idea. Welcome to the forum gregp
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Thanks, Zombie! What I think he was saying is that the Iridium BR8HIX is the same size as the stock plug and will work, but the BPR8HIX is longer and will not.
Looking forward to seeing what you are using,
Greg
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Hey greg welcome to the forum.I went to the local auto parts store To try to get one the br8hix I believe is the equivalent to stock.Do to mods I'm running one step colder,said They could order but never heard back from them.The local scoot shop wants around $7.00 for a stock ngk,so im running an autolite 4092 at less than $2.00 a pop this is = to a br9.I do carry a couple spares in the glove box,but have not had a problem yet.
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hey guys< I'm running an NGK BP 9 HS. I forget what the stock one was, but it was about 1/4" longer, and 2 steps hotter. I have run everything from BP 5 thru 9, and the 9 works best for mine. I milled my head .5mm, and this heat range works fine. the length puts the tip right on top of the dome vs in the center of the chamber. The right plug will add some torque, and 1-2 mph top.
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I went to buy an iridium plug and was told that it had a longer firing end . My mechanic told me it would change the tune up I had just done on my scooter.
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I finally got the Iridium BR8HIX plug for my 2004 People 50 I ordered, gapped it, and installed. Made no other changes to the bike.
It now starts up immediately when cold, although I still have to wait a minute before I can drive it or it will stall out. After that, it is wonderful - peppier, better going up hills, and a faster high end.
Before this it was a painful 5 minutes or more of starting, stalling, and restarting to get it going each morning.
Greg
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Good to know,glad it worked out for ya.now for some mods Ha!That hard start and dieing could be an air idle adjustment,was having the same problem had to turn in a 1/4 turn clockwise.Made a big difference.
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Art, thanks - will try the air adjustment.
So - what would you recommend as the first mod?
Greg
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The cheapest and easiest Is an upjet to an #85 main and a 3/8" hole in the outer cover of the airbox(I put the hole to the carb side behind the little flare in the cover)If wanting a little more go for the K/n filter(your carb opening is 38mm I think you can run up to a 43mm filter opening) and about a #95 main eliminate the airbox,The 2004 pipe is not bad for a stocker,to stay cheap dont worry about a pipe just yet.The filter and jet should cost less than $40 and give you better performance all the way through and 5+mph,at this point you may need to do some roller changes and once there you may want to get a Malossi veriater,then it starts to get pricey a kevlar belt a hand full of weight and so on.I'd do the k/n and upjet and see what you think,cause there is always more,but this for around town is realy a good set up.Got me at 215 lbs to a 1/4" past the 50 mark more if a little down hill and climbs reasonably well.
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Art:
It all sounds very cool - and all in some language that I haven't heard before! :)
Is there any place that gives beginner's details on "Mods for Dummys"?
Greg
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..dude...read back through these posts...hang out here..it all becomes clearer with time..
..most of us found this place knowing absolutely nothing about our scoots..
..i learned all i now know with the help from ppl here...
peace
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Ha! the info is here,might have to waid threw some stuff or Tell us what you want to do first,I'll try my best Little hight tonight though!!!
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And what he said! ;D ;D ;D
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..i'm making way too many shims....
:o
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;D
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question for gregp- how is that irridium plug doing now? Seriously contemplated buying one-also have cold start issues. I don't care if it cost 11 bucks, but I've heard mixed reviews, a kymco tech told me it won't help cold starting. Thanks for providing the ngk part#, I may just get one. Starting to learn it's not JUST one, but several things one may have to do to start in <40 degree temps. The people 50 is a cold blooded beast....
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I think both art and wordslinger are of the impression that the ppl 50 is a hot blooded beast.
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I have a 2002 people 50 that I used to have trouble with in cold weather untill I changed to NGK iridium . Now it starts and idles better in all weather , but is still balky in 20 degree and under weather . I also use non ethanol gas and seafoam . I have over 2500 km on the iridium plug with no problems . Good luck .
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It was worth it on the kitted bike,but it is down right now,for other reasons. (crank bearing)
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I think both art and wordslinger are of the impression that the ppl 50 is a hot blooded beast
..i know that's right!!!
;D
.
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You can use the iridium plug in your engine, yes it is longer. As long as you haven't milled your head for compression you will have enough squish (piston to head clearance)
When you use multiple washers you are going to have a compression leak which is going to result in loss of torque. Ever notice the washer on a spark plug is different then your standard washer used on bolts?
Its designed to seal when under stress such as 120PSI to wear a standard washer is used as a lock washer or spacer, not to seal
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I've been using the irridium plug for about 10 days now. Can't say I notice a difference. No help with cold starting. Im told they last much longer than other plugs, but have not verified that in any way yet.
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You're in good company...
Many of the people on the forum that switched to iridium haven't noticed any difference - including me!
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According to the NGK website both the BR8HSA and the BR8HIX are 14mm X 13/16 " . That sounds like the same size IMO .
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Many of the people on the forum that switched to iridium haven't noticed any difference - including me!
..same here...
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Well I am still happy with my iridium plugs and if I ever wear one out im going to get another to replace it . I hope all of you all will like them better in time .
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Many of the people on the forum that switched to iridium haven't noticed any difference - including me!
..same here...
Thats because your running the wrong fuel. ;D
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Iridium spark plugs....... how we all fall for great marketing. Such as the super duper high output "racing" coil! LOL!!
Iridium is one of the hardest metals known to man. Its not some super HV transformer.
Iridium became very popular when the automobiles started to advertise a tuneup every 100K miles.
YES!! Iridium spark plugs are long lasting and dont burn out as quick as conventional spark plugs.
Stick with a 2.95 NGK spark plug and stop wasting your money on marketers and sales people..
Its been proven in the performance world on dynos. Spark Plugs DONT increase horsepower.
Its always great when some company comes out with a spark plug, such as the Split Fires 8.00 a piece and boy did they make money off that!
Ever think your hard starting may be because of a poor operating choke? Maybe your carburetor is jetted on the lean side?
I read so many posts that people mask a problem and usually causes more issues down the line.
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question for gregp- how is that irridium plug doing now? Seriously contemplated buying one-also have cold start issues. I don't care if it cost 11 bucks, but I've heard mixed reviews, a kymco tech told me it won't help cold starting. Thanks for providing the ngk part#, I may just get one. Starting to learn it's not JUST one, but several things one may have to do to start in <40 degree temps. The people 50 is a cold blooded beast....
Why do you think a spark plug would help with cold starting?
Cold starting is usually by a lean condition faulty choke etc.
Can you explain your theory?
Do you think 2.95 spark plugs get cold and dont like to spark when its cold?
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Thats because your running the wrong fuel. ;D
..i reckon imma leave this alone....
peace
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..i reckon imma leave this alone....
peace
The " :) " at the end of the comment was for fun. Slinger if you were running rocket fuel in your scoot and if you thought it helped thats great. Ever try crunching up chocolate chip cookies to mix in with your high test?
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Lankee, I do not have a theory to explain. I have simply learned to investigate what other people have tried on this forum. Some of us do not have 25 years of engine rebuilding experience. Maybe it's crude trouble shooting and not up to your standards, but it's worth trying when A- it's not going to hurt anything, and B- it's only $7.00 vs $3.00 for a plug.
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..Slinger if you were running rocket fuel in your scoot and if you thought it helped thats great...
..and if you thought it helped ..
..that's just it lankee...
..it's not a "thought"..didn't imagine it..
..i experiment with everything..sometime things work..sometimes they don't..
..but the results are real...
peace
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Also, I had the local kymco mech adjust my carb, I don't think it's lean (plug looks tan, not white, this is a good sign, right?)
I pulled and tested the by- starter, ohm meter read checks out. Put 12 v across it, and it seems to retract fully. If I understand this thing right, it functions some what a choke, only it allows more fuel in through a secondary, smaller jet, rather than restricting air flow. I searched the net, but could not seem to find out much on this thing.
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..you're exactly right on both the plug and the auto-bystarter..
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thanks, eh. Is there more to the "fuel enrichment circuit" I should know about? I have the service manual, but am not overly impressed with it. seems it could maybe expound a bit more on some things...
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...nope...that's about it...other than the idle mix and throttle-stop screws
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Cool. I just met a restaurant owner who admired my scoot, he used to have a super8. He gave me the # of a local guy who works on kymcos in his spare time and charges a fair price. Figure I've gone as far as I can, so I'm gonna check it out. Damn good decision to go get a gyro for lunch saturday-fate can be nice sometimes!
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..if you can, pick his brain...hang out at the shop...
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I agree word, I will try to get whatever info I can. I've GOT to figure out whats wrong here- don't want to pass up going to work on the scoot cause the temp is below 50 degrees, so I don't have time to dick with it for 10 minutes.
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yeah! I'm a jr member now. (still feel like a newbie) maybe by spring or summer I will be turning some wrenches on this thing...so much to learn...
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...turning your own wrenches is ever better...
..you then KNOW what's up....
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Turn 'em if you got 'em, tom...lol.
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Rianna, I don't have to many tools, but my friend has some more, and best of all, A GARAGE! imagine that. I live in a downtown apartment, so I am glad to have a friend with a garage, the possibilities are so much better than taking a scoot apart on a sidewalk! javascript:void(0);
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sorry Rianna, that was supposed to be a smiley at the end, what happened?
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...if it's dark, i tune in my living room...
;)
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It just messes up sometimes, tom. Maybe we type too fast or something. lol. Yeah, I don't have much in the way of tools right now either. And my living room is not lit up too well. That's great to be able to use a garage!! I think you'll have the hang of these scoots in no time, tom.
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well now, you've got me thinking.... A winch at the top of the stairs (kind of screws with my decorating motif) but pulling your scooter into the kitchen to work on it? priceless!! you might be a redneck if......(-:
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..if you eat your morning fruit loops off the seat of your scooter...
..you might be a redneck...
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Thanks Rianna, you may be right. I don't consider my self overly mechanical, but sometimes you have to think about how hard you work for your money, and it's worth learning to do what you can. Thankfully, no major issues now (other than cold starts) but it pays to listen and read here to prep for what is eventual.
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..if you eat your morning fruit loops off the seat of your scooter...
God, you might be beyond redneck... perhaps we can find you a therapist (-:
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...dang...i've eaten off my scoot's seat before...
..WHAT AILS ME!!!
:o
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That's 2 funny! Y'all got me laughin' tonight!
But seriously, tough. Ya already got one up on me, tom, because your not a 'girl.' :D I have to look up words and stuff to understand what I read. lol
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I have to look up words and stuff to understand what I read. lol
Believe me, so do I! like what the heck is a bystarter?!? Roller weights, variators, boss something or other ( I fear those things called bosses for some reason LOL!!) Not just a "girl" thing if a man wants to be honest (-: A whole new vocabulary!
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.WHAT AILS ME!!!
You have scooter fever, my man... There is no known cure!
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LOL...tom, when I hear boss...I always think of the humongous bad guy you have to beat at the end of a round on a video game. ;D
It's true, though, the scoot is a unique vehicle by itself. I don't remember conversations about cars with roller weights and and such. At lease there is youtube and google images and shops with technical sections online these days. I would certainly be lost without it all. If I don't understand something I read I can look up a pic or a diagram and say, "Ohhhhhh, now I get it!" ;D
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Rianna, you tube! thats a good reminder...there must be a ton of videos there relating to scooters( but, one still has to use discernment-lots of idiocy posted as well) good to remember though.
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True, tom. There are lots of videos about motorcycles as well. Not everything will apply, but often times the it's close enough to give you an idea of how to do it on your scoot. Some shops that sell parts have a few videos up in different categories as well. It's cool when you hit on a bunch of useful ones like that.
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...if it's dark, i tune in my living room...
;)
Tune in the living room. I can hear it now when friends are over "Hey Yankee is that a tire mark or is the dog dragging his ass on the carpet"
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Also, I had the local kymco mech adjust my carb, I don't think it's lean (plug looks tan, not white, this is a good sign, right?)
I pulled and tested the by- starter, ohm meter read checks out. Put 12 v across it, and it seems to retract fully. If I understand this thing right, it functions some what a choke, only it allows more fuel in through a secondary, smaller jet, rather than restricting air flow. I searched the net, but could not seem to find out much on this thing.
Hi Tom
Its not very accurate in reading plugs on a scoot to tune. I will explain.
Yes, reading a plug is one way to see if your AF (air fuel ratio) is correct.
This way of tuning came from racers with manual transmissions. This how you can do it on vehichles with MANUAL transmission.
Install new spark plugs. Start the engine, run the engine up to max RPM.
Pull the clutch in at max RPM and kill the engine.
Coast to a stop.
Remove the spark plug and read it.
The problem with trying this tuning method with a scooter is you arent able to shut the engine down at MAX RPM.
I use a dual band AF meter and an O2 sensor on my scoot due to many different carb configurations and Nitrous Jetting with Fuel.
Before I had the AF meter I would just start by finding a long stretch of road and using a road sign, land mark etc as a point and clocking the top speed with a GPS unit.
I would start lean and increase the jet size until the MPH would drop. Then set the main jet that had the best top speed. After I had my main fuel jet dialed in I could set my needle height and spring pressure to my likings and this would usually be a short burst from take off such as 0-35mph or mark out 125 feet and and use a GPS to see what the max speed is within the 125ft from 0.
Reading a plug isnt accurate in jetting on a CVT transmission even more so if its not a brand new spark plug.
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Take a note of the iridium plug your changing out with your standard NGK plug.
If your piston clearance is tight you may have a change in performance your not wanting to achieve.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/znmt91.jpg)
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Lankeeyankee, whatever iridium plug i have (forget the number) is not the one shown. It is actually the same length as the standard. But, it made no difference, so I just keep it with me as a back up now. Repalcing my main jet with a larger one, and re-tuning has greatly improved the cold weather problem. Not to mention quicker acceleration, really noticed the difference.
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How much did you increase your jet size?
I'm thinking of doing the same to help with the poor cold weather performance on my scoot.
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That's awesome, Tom. Glad it's going better in the cold now!
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hey OS, and Rianna- sorry about the lateness of this reply. The jet in it (factory) was only a 75. The new one is I think a 90, 0r 92. I found a great mechanic-semi retired guy who used to sell/ service Kymco at his car lot. It really helped alot, even at 35 deg. it runs good when warmed up. My new procedure is, start bike with thumb in air intake to choke it a bit. Let it idle about 2 minutes, good to go.If it starts to puke while idling, put thumb back in intake.
Last ride of the season yesterday. Put her in storage.
P.S Os- the acceleration has improved big time! cheap to do, so go for it..
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Thanks for the information.
I'm running a #80 jet and probably should be at an #85 I suspect.
No problems with starting it even on the coldest day, but I have to warm it up for at least 5 minutes - and more like 10 min. when it hits the mid- to low 20's and below. Once it has warmed, it runs great.
Don't know if the bigger jet would help with the warming up part. Seems like before the scoot is fully warmed up if I try to ride it the thing floods out. I think my problem may be too much fuel when it's cold due to the auto bypass.
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The cheapest and best Is an up jet to an #85 main and a 3/8" hole within the outer cowl of the air box,I place the opening to the carob facet behind the limited flare within the cowl.