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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Iahawk on August 22, 2016, 11:55:09 PM

Title: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: Iahawk on August 22, 2016, 11:55:09 PM
I finally took the MSF course over the weekend. Great course and highly recommended to anyone considering riding a 2 wheeled vehicle.

Man, it was fun using the clutch and shifting the gears. I didn't realize the delay in the CVT power transfer until after riding the motorcycles. The motorcycle power delivery is instant...the CVT on my scooter has a 1 or 2 second delay (it felt like an eternity on my first ride back on the scooter). Revvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv......then forward motion. I thought there might be something wrong with it at first..then realized it's just the CVT delay that has always been there.

Loved the MSF course....just not loving the CVT as much after playing with a real clutch!
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: htcneil2 on August 23, 2016, 01:58:59 AM
I started on an xciting 500, then got a TMAx. I can see how you might find using a clutch fun. i got the same exhileration when i first got my xt225. then a KTM duke, then a concours14. however, during the time inwas gettign motorcycles, i took my tmax california for vacations. my xciting 500 engine blew. I just picked up the a Super 8 and find myself riding it more than the motos now. twist and go is still pretty fun!

using a clutch and such is fun too.
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: pipster326 on August 24, 2016, 07:06:23 AM
I too, just took the MSF course, 3 weeks ago. I learned some neat little tips . I know what you mean, about driving a clutch and shifting gears. It was a lot of fun. I love my Dt300, but to be honest, I have been checking out bikes with manual transmissions.


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Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on August 24, 2016, 10:47:28 AM
Yep, bikes can be a lot more fun...if you're wired that way.
Plus.....plus...a 300cc bike is a lot cheaper than a 300cc scooter.
You can get a 500cc Honda for $1000 less than a 400cc Burgman.
My salesman explained that a CVT is a $1000 more expensive to produce.
Don't know if I buy that...
Stig
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: AMAC1680 on August 24, 2016, 12:21:46 PM
Hey everybody should ride a shifty for a while that way you'll be able to understand how over rated the skill is. I rode a Harley for almost forty years and cursed the shifter for the last twenty I had it.

Unless you're dragging kness and jack rabbiting off lights it's just , IMO, a pain.
It's also not that hard. Any dirt track has a bunch of 8 years olds that have mastered the art of shifting so.....

AMAC

Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: ScooterWolf on August 24, 2016, 12:42:08 PM
Shifting to start out was fun, especially once you got a sense of the clutch control with the throttle. But down shifting to stop, then starting all over again became repetitive and kind of a pain after a while. I like the freedom of twist and go. I never really felt any delays with a CVT, but I wasn't going for Jackrabbit starts.

- Wolf
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: TroutBum on August 24, 2016, 09:13:09 PM
I've owned shifty PTWs on and off over the decades. Shifting has become automatic for me. I really don't notice it until I'm racing around. CVTs have there place and I enjoy it, but you do forgo some control and responsiveness.

OP add a shifty to your stable and have options for riding.  :)
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: Iahawk on August 25, 2016, 12:27:24 AM
OP add a shifty to your stable and have options for riding.  :)

that is exactly my plan! I think I have the wife convinced that my middle age crisis demands I get a (used, smaller displacement) motorcycle!

Keep both the scooter and the motorcycle!
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: GLV55 on August 25, 2016, 04:05:04 AM
Shifting to start out was fun, especially once you got a sense of the clutch control with the throttle. But down shifting to stop, then starting all over again became repetitive and kind of a pain after a while. I like the freedom of twist and go. I never really felt any delays with a CVT, but I wasn't going for Jackrabbit starts.

- Wolf
Totally agree with you there, Wolf. Twist and go just fits my style of riding.
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: momontheloose on August 25, 2016, 10:23:49 PM
After riding my xciting 250 for 4 years I thought I was missing something so I bought a Honda Pacific Coast. Learned how to shift rode a bit and realized I'm just more comfortable on a scoot. Sold the PC. I'm still kicking around the idea of getting a 400 or 650 Burgman.
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: klaviator on August 26, 2016, 10:15:24 PM
Yep, bikes can be a lot more fun...if you're wired that way.
Plus.....plus...a 300cc bike is a lot cheaper than a 300cc scooter.
You can get a 500cc Honda for $1000 less than a 400cc Burgman.
My salesman explained that a CVT is a $1000 more expensive to produce.
Don't know if I buy that...
Stig

That's BS.  A CVT is less expensive than to produce than a Manual Tranny.  Perhaps that may not be true for a more complex CVT like in a Burgman 650.  All that extra plastic on a maxi scooter however, is not that cheap to produce.  Also, keep in mind that a Burgman 400 is bigger and weighs more than most 500cc motorcycles.  My Majesty weighs more than my Versys 650.

My experience with motorcycle salesmen is that they often don't know what they are talking about.
Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: Forbes1964 on August 28, 2016, 03:09:05 AM
That's BS.  A CVT is less expensive than to produce than a Manual Tranny.  Perhaps that may not be true for a more complex CVT like in a Burgman 650.  All that extra plastic on a maxi scooter however, is not that cheap to produce.  Also, keep in mind that a Burgman 400 is bigger and weighs more than most 500cc motorcycles.  My Majesty weighs more than my Versys 650.

My experience with motorcycle salesmen is that they often don't know what they are talking about.
I agree. A CVT on most scooters  consists only of smooth machined cones, cheap weights, a belt, and a more complex version of a centrifugal clutch found on a chainsaw or child's go cart. No way that's more expensive than precision machined gears, a shift mechanism with detents, and a wet clutch with  the associated release mechanism.

That being said, I think a scooter provides more value for the money except for the engine size. But most scooter riders don't really want ninja speed. They like the balance of power, STORAGE, Ease of routine handling, and ease of operation.
I've observed that if you get a motorcycle with storage and wind protection, the price advantage seems to disappear.

Scooter riders SEEM to NOT want to shift gears while on their scooters. When they get the shift bug, they ride their motorcycles. But it SEEMS that most ride their scooters the vast majority of of the time.


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Title: Re: MSF course, motorcycle clutch vs CVT
Post by: GLV55 on September 01, 2016, 10:41:17 PM
I agree. A CVT on most scooters  consists only of smooth machined cones, cheap weights, a belt, and a more complex version of a centrifugal clutch found on a chainsaw or child's go cart. No way that's more expensive than precision machined gears, a shift mechanism with detents, and a wet clutch with  the associated release mechanism.

That being said, I think a scooter provides more value for the money except for the engine size. But most scooter riders don't really want ninja speed. They like the balance of power, STORAGE, Ease of routine handling, and ease of operation.
I've observed that if you get a motorcycle with storage and wind protection, the price advantage seems to disappear.

Scooter riders SEEM to NOT want to shift gears while on their scooters. When they get the shift bug, they ride their motorcycles. But it SEEMS that most ride their scooters the vast majority of of the time.

Very well said, Forbes. I completely agree with everything you stated in your post.  :)