KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => People 50 => Topic started by: art on June 03, 2010, 11:15:34 PM
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Has anyone else done this build.airsol 70cc kit arreche 19mm carb #95 main/#20 pilot/needle top clip leanest position next rs uni pod.I cant seem to dial in the 1/8 to 1/4 throttle position from take off.Idle good 5 to 20 mph sputter miss sputter rocket when the main hits.All instinct says lean condition,plug chop shows a little wet not bad the rest is about spot on and ofcourse I didn't order the #15 pilot going richer seems to get worse ???Wondering if anyone else is haveing this same problem or is it just the way this setup runs.Any thoughts. Top speed unknown 30mph to 1 inch past 50 instant ;D little slow off the line havn't done the veriater yet all else is good except the sputter :'( Thanks art
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little slow off the line havn't done the veriater yet
..there you go!!...
..and welcome to th' forum!
peace
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I have a very similar set-up on my ZX50. I ended up having to run a 25 pilot and a 115 main jet. Can't remember off hand which position my needle is in, I think in the top clip. Mine does sputter a little when it's cold for the first 1/4 throttle, It's all good when it's warm though. It seems really difficult to get the Arreche to have a nice smooth transition all the way through. I think ultimately I need a different needle, just haven't seen any available anywhere.
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Thanks for the welcome and reply.Povo does have a nerrower needle didn't seem to help tried the #25 and #30 pilot seemed worse.I'll try the #25 again and a couple needle settings.Crazy seems to rich only pilot I haven't tried is the #15.sounds like the arreche has a little bit of rep for this all else is pretty sweet.Tried this same set up with the next r sputter to 1/2 throttle,It's so close can't wait for the veriater!If anyone is interested I'm doing a build with another kymco people 50 With stock jug and some machining We set the squish = 5mph stock intake breathes like a dragon now to get the exhaust matched.Pipe and pod.Should be alot cheaper than the bolt on's and more durable I hope. ;D
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I'm running the Next R pipe. I do have a larger intake manifold as well as 4 petal V shaped reed block and a K&N cone filter. Like I said, it does sputter when it's cold up to about 1/4-1/2 throttle sometimes. I have it set that way somewhat intentionally though just to help with cooling on decell. I haven't seen the different needles from Povo, I'll have to check that out!
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I was considering the reeds as well not sure if they will help down low.If you hit the lotto check out the next rs S.I.P. had a reasonable price on it don't know about shipping.Night and day difference on the people 50.makes sennse on the decell my machinest highly sugested running a little rich for the same reason,but I'm only getting the symptom on accel,It's tolerable just hard to not be on the pipe when trying not to be noticed ;D Thank again.
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since you are familiar with the People 50 (by the way what year is yours?). Have you done the CDI mod or did you swap it out? What gain did you notice??
I have a people 50 and it is derestricted via boss and exhaust, but I haven't had time to check to see if the CDI had been messed with yet. From what the speedometer on the scoot says I go about 45 on flat and hit 50 down hill. It seems to cut itself out going downhill and WOT. I was going to start with the CVT first and then move on to what you have already done with the kit and carb. I'm finding out the hard way that the stock carb is a pain in the a$$. Keep us posted, sounds very interesting.
Oh, yeah, WELCOME ;D
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If you can reach 45mph you should be derestricted.It cuts the spark at 40mph as far as gain about 5mph with jet change unlimited downhill.I have 2002 two 2005s and a 2009.Before 2005 the pipes are less restricted the 2005s are a bit constipated and the 2009 sucks all motors are identical pipes and jetting are the only differences.the 2005s and older just have a green wire coming out the bottem of the cdi and a convenient plug,unplug done,they got wize sometime later had to replace the 2009 with a cobra.If you run an#85 main and drill a hole 3/8 at front of air box in front of filter you should reach 50+ depending on your weight got my brotherinlaw to 50 at 245lbs.The arreche carb is not a straight bolt on had to modify throttle cable couldn't get the stock carb cap and cable seperated without destroying it :'(.The stock carb attomizer can be tapped to except the standerd keihn main jets works great better selection,don't know how far we can go yet.Still waiting for my machinest to get my exgaust ports diled in,going for a as close to stock build (stock parts that is)including carb,with the exception of pipe and pod.First results were good instant 5mph on top of stock with pod 2005 stock pipe and #105 tapped kehin can't wait for the rest.The next r did not work great with this set up the rs on the otherhand was great.Good luck
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That last post was a huge help. I'm going to take off the front plastic and look at the CDI. I was hoping it was going to be a simple unplug and not a risky cdi cut. I will have to try the hole in the air box trick.
Thanks again Art!
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No problem bniasen good luck.
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Hey shaka You nailed it #25 pilot,was getting a lean pilot condition and a rich needle It was blubbering right between the two.I highly suggest the narrower needle at top leanest set.gained better take off low and mid responce clean all the way through,might be going up one more on that main next ;DThanks Art .Just relized I can't spell worth a dam That is http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters.html.Hope (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters.html.Hope) it's ok to post the link.Been a good sorce for me not always the cheapest but good service.S.I.P. has been great to,but being located in germany,I just found out you have to order over $100 to make the shipping worth it to them.Prices are great,building a 1963 vespa with there parts so far so good,just don't forget any small things when ordering.Good luck all!
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I checked out the CDI on my scoot and just as I suspected. NOW my scoot is fully derestricted. Just as easy as you said Art, just unplugged the connected green wire. I also drilled into the airbox, just 3/8" hole about half an inch away from the airbox inlet. Weather got crappy so I could test it. Rode it after the CDI change and noticed I could climb over 45 on the flats. Downhill was a tad scary :o . I'll have fun with now!
Next up, CVT!!
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...that's just frikin' awesome...
so many success stories lately.....
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Ha!If the seat was a little softer and the suspention little more plush(old decrepid guy ;)I'd trust to 100+mph,I just might reach it some day.These are great bikes,I'm an old dirt bike guy (Love honda's)Do to injery I thought I'd never ride again.(non bike related)I bought a vino 125 4t felt like a tank didnT perform as well as I thought,small tires killed my back and kinda slow.knowing 2t a bit better I picked up my first kymco people 50 and Loved it,the 16 inch tires sealed the deal for me.I knew with a little moding It would kick some a$$,honda used to use them to manufacture there motors and I knew with there histery It would be a great start.Unfortunatly no one else is doing alot with them,so it's been trial and error to get things right.Thats why I joined the forem to pass on what I''ve learned and get some advice.Once I opened up the motor I realized the potentual way over built then chocked down to meet epa and moped standerds.Stay tuned for my sorta stock build,still in the works.Some nice michelen tires with some grip would put this over the top ;D Good luck All!
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...it's kinda amazing what ppl can get outta 49.5 cc scooter sometimes...
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No-one believes it until they ride one. One of my buddies here just bought a Chinese 150cc. We traded rides after I smoked him at all levels, and he asked if I would tune his. After explaining why I would NOT tune it, he agreed to go shopping on Monday for a Kymco. The 150 is going to his son in law for the same as paid. The people May be an option.
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..ive got an 05 chinese out back in th' shed with 3200 kms...it's pretty much junk, but i've salvaged a few bits from it...
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It's funny that I rode it, and he said the name brand 20-30 times, and it just didn't register! I have no clue what brand it is.
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...i got the squeaky-assed brake pads on my scoot...
..my oem never made a peep...
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So I unpluged the CDI limit and drilled a small hole in the airbox. I had to adjust the idle speed cause after riding a while it would idle real low and die.
After doing these mods with the rest stock (except the boss drive) do I really have to worry about running lean?
Art: I can't wait to get a chance to really let the scoot fly! Hadn't had the chance to see what the top speed is now but what I can tell now is that I would greatly benefit from a CVT kit.
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..any time you increase air flow into your carb, or increase your engine's rpms, you should at least do a chop...
..no need to speculate on whether you're rich, lean or whatever...
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No dout check the plug.More gas (bigger jets)till it bogs!lean condition can kill your motor ritch just a plug or two as long as you don't ride to ritch forever Ha!I have a great link for plug reads check it out if not familiar http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark_plugs_catalog.html (http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark_plugs_catalog.html) forgot were I got it from props to whoever.Ya the kymco rocks.Mine will hang with a honda 150 elite easy I think i have more top,definetly will after veriater,we wont mention gas milage and logevity;DDon't know yet!I have a 2005 soon to be for sale with 700 miles perfect $1200 as is little more if I do the stock build ;DI'm in portland oregon.Good luck all!
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Hey bniessen you might need to turn your air mix screw out or in a little I think i'm around 1 3/4 turns.Set your idle a little high turn air in till it retards then out till it drops off again some where in the middle of that is a sweet spot got to listen close Doesn't allways respond right away might need to blip the throttle to hear the difference in each 1/4 turn Reset idle to your taste.Definetly get A#85 main or have yours drilled The stock can be any where from a #68 to a #75 these jets are a bit small even for stock.Not one of my bikes has had the same stock main jet.The #85 was a tad rich on my set up with the hole in the box,better safe than sorry
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funny you should reply, I actualy just got back from a plug chop session and noticed I was running lean. Although when I opened the air box, I did not actually drill into the box itself just the outer shell. Before I unpluged the green wire on the CDI the plug chop came back fine, after now lean. I did re-adjust the idle screws and left them a little on the high side before I even read your helpful post. Definitly will be going with an after market carb this winter.
this Malossi from MHR
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/Malossi-Carb-Kit-19mm-Kymco/1331 (http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/Malossi-Carb-Kit-19mm-Kymco/1331)
Or this arreche
http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/arreche-19mm-carburetor-kymco.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/arreche-19mm-carburetor-kymco.html)
I would like a Dell'Orto but I could not locate one for the People 50 ???
I guess one of these weekends I have to borrow some welding tip cleaners from work and bore out the main jet. I manual I have says the stock jet is a #85 but I know how accurate those manuals really are
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You can tape the hole up till you get bigger jets I'd order another attomizer and kehin jets from provo lot cheaper than a new carb easy to tap there made of brass I've had great results so far.Derestricting should not have leaned it out the hole did.Either carb swap can get a bit difficult unless it comes with a custom cable,after that you have to remove floor board to get to the cable pull a little bit of a job,unless you can figure out how to remove stock cable from carb cap,I couldn't(without a grinder)Took me quite a while to get the arreche just right,with a little help from the forum,It's perfect right now.If you have the pipe allready get a pod filter and even bigger jets best bang for the buck.The next move for me was the 70cc kit then white clutch springs and next the veriater I'm around 70mph without it,(my guess unconfirmed) definetly over 60. I'm almost positive you can run that stock carb with a pod,pipe and tapped attomizer.my outher bike is still at the machine shop,cant test yet,but I did have it going with a pod stock carb tapped #105 main head shave and a older stock pipe.probably going to have to run a #115 to #120 with exaust port opened and next r pipe.I guess my point is I through a lot of money at it and I like it ;D.But going old school on this next one,I think it will perfome close to the same for about 1/2 the price.By the way any one looking for oversize or stock pistons they can be found at pro-x a sister co. to wisco.
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OK here is one for ya. When I ride at half throttle or at idle engine sounds fine, when WOT I hear a slight ticking, sounds like its coming from engine. BTW, I did tape up that hole, I'll have to wait till I upgrade to an aftermarket carb. I was going to do it anway, no point in buying jets (unless I have to) for a carb that I only going to be using until winter anyway. I live in WI so I'll be rinding until I can't feel my face, or until its not safe, which ever is first.
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Your going to need an open airbox any way you might be suprized what you can do with that stock carb,are you reaching 50 yet.The ticking the easy stuff make sure the spark plug cap is tight,check for rock,nail,in tire,make sure oil is flowing good!louder pipe so you can't hear it ;Dcheck for exaust leaks more bad decarbonize head top end loose little noise ok lot not good.When you open the airbox you will hear a bit more engine noise through the pod kinda tacky sound.Just got back from my first 55mph road if all were going 55 about a 1/4 inchpast the 50 mark was 55 could hang with ease at about 2/3 throttle and had plenntty to pass if needed,little more break in going to have to hit the freeway,Don't want to be the first person in the county to get a speeding ticket on a moped ::)I say pod it and jet it lot of summer left ;D Good luck
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Yeha I've been hittin 45-50 on the flats, faster downhill. You said "The stock carb attomizer can be tapped to except the standerd keihn main jets", do you remember what tap you used?? Stupid question: the attomizer must be the hole in the carb that the main jet threads into? Did you bore then tap or just tap over the existing threads??
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Yes bore than tap you can eyeball the bit can't read the size I think it's a 9/64 the tap says 10-32 nf gh3 hsi had a friend lend me the tap don't know what all that means.Yes thats the attomizer.You need to get in that carb and see what your main jet is.I think you can order The #85 #90 #100 for a start,with stock airbox,if going for the pod #105 #110 #115 should put you in the ballpark.You'll be glad you did once dialed in.By the way get the 38mm pod not the 58mm like I did the first time >:(I was doing a little more digging around kymco parts online calls it the needle jet holder.I thought I seen them at provo can't find now.kymco online seems to have the only ones available little pricey.never ordered from them.Got to get your origanal right the first time ;D
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By pod you mean an open air filter. I was thinking of going that way
this in the 40mm size
http://www.amazon.com/RC-2294-Universal-Chrome-Filter/dp/B000E7FO46 (http://www.amazon.com/RC-2294-Universal-Chrome-Filter/dp/B000E7FO46)
or
http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/uni-filter-air-filter.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/uni-filter-air-filter.html)
I'll have to see about when I'll have time to take the carb off. Have you ever tried the technique with the welding tip cleaners to bore out the existing jets??
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I'm running the one from provo,If you want realy cheap most shops have the red uni for under $20 works fine.After doing allot more digging I found scooterworks has the keihin pb main jets that should fit your stock carbs,if you don't want to chance the tap and die trick.No luck on the attomizer needle holder whatever it is anywhere but kymco,still more digging I think anyone of those zx ones will fit,should be a few to be had around this sight ;)Good luck all P.s.I had a #75 drilled to about #80 not quite enouph,on the otherhand I had an#85 from anouther bike that worked good with the stock air box and tec1.With the pod got lucky local shop had a used #105 that fit,think i could have gone with a #110 Still waiting on my machinest :'(Never tell a machinest take your time I don't need it right now)To give true tested results.
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Have you ever tried the technique with the welding tip cleaners to bore out the existing jets??
..they work great!!
..i use this kit i assembled.. I like having the calipers just to verify the diameters i'm drilling..
.. i've added a set of fold-out torch tip cleaners to it also...
peace
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Nice!Not that high tec here still fly by the seat of my panse!Got to be cheaper in the long run than breaking those $6 bits and loseing them Ha!And knowing the actual size priceless.I want.
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...the drills are just torch cleaning drills..
..set costs about 20 bucks...the calipers you can get for not much more than that...
..i get the QA guy at work to keep th calipers calibrated...i drop them from time to time...lol..
..usually during that second six-pack...
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Thats how I brake and lose bits ;D
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Thats how I brake and lose bits
..yup...brothers from another mother...
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Anyone else following this thread after allot of research 2 or 24 beers ;DThe kymco people 50 runs the keihin pb carb 7mm round main jets the no. from keihin are 99101-116-xxx-xxx The first xxx I believe is the mm of carb 019 the second xxx is the jet size starting around 860? so a 99101-116-019-869 would be a #85 main jet for the pb this goes to 879 being a #120 main It skips a couple hear and there.I think scooterworks carries the proper ones,not confirmed,can't find anywhere else.A email to keihin might do the trick.Good luck all!
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Funny, I am the QA guy at a place that manufacturs particle accelleraters, pelletron.com. I am blessed to work at a place that has a great machine shop. The parts that come out of the shop have to be within .005" tolerances. I'll have to bother one of the scooter shops to see if they have any jets for my carb.
Thanks guys!
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You get that carb opened yet,want to hear some results.Probably a few others Too :D
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It'll be a while till I tinker with the scoot. Our next "bundle of joy" is expected soon. I promised SWMBO that I would put off any more tinkering until fall. :-[
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Congratulations!Just a thought when you do get around to it,pull the seat bucket(4 bolts)gives easy access to carb(2 bolts)If you remove the two bolts at the bottem of the air cleaner the whole thing can be removed.Good luck!
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...art, what year is your scoot??
..i justbought an 01 that looks just like it...
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I have 4 peoples 50's The one I'm currently riding is a 2002,have 2 2005's and a 2009 motors are all identical different pipes and jets only.The newer the more chocked down they get.2001 is a good one,better stock pipe unplug green wire ready to go.I'm sure it won't stay stock for long!You will be suprised what it will do.
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...wow..yeah, it's gotta big pipe...
..i've watched a ppl 50 smoke the rear tire....
..as i salivated....
..yup..
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I stumbled into the peoples by chance It was a good deal and never heard a bad review.Most folks don't believe me,but I know I,m around 70mph no gps.At least I was :'(I'll get it back got to have those tires!
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..i know...that ppl ran 65....saw it for m'self....
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Thanks Art! During the winter months I plan on pulling the whole motor out and possibly go with a bigger cylinder kit either with or without the stock jug. I've heard interesting things about the Malossi big bore kits can sieze in cold weather because of the different metals between the jug and the piston, temperature expansion/contraction. I kind of doubt it though, given all the testomony here that Malossi is the shizznit.
I'll either go with a kit or just rebuild if the stock piston doesn't seem that beat-up. What I WILL DO is rejet, new exhaust (chrome Technigas), free flow air filter cone, paint flat black, and add some LED running lights to the front where the dummy light covers are.
Thats my plan.
I brew beer as my other hobby, I try to do most of it during the summer. ;D
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I brew beer as my other hobby, I try to do most of it during the summer
I drink beer as my other hobby, I try to do most of it during the summer
;D
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Hey speaking of lights those cheasy bolt on front blinkers can be removed with ease.The wires were made to fit the ones in the body.remove caps drill small hole to recieve wires.You will have to modify the reflectors from the handlebars to fit hole.I just ground a couple sides flat works great!
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Another true brother... Beer, and scoots! MMMMmmmmm Beeeeer!
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Hey speaking of lights those cheasy bolt on front blinkers can be removed with ease.The wires were made to fit the ones in the body.remove caps drill small hole to recieve wires.You will have to modify the reflectors from the handlebars to fit hole.I just ground a couple sides flat works great!
True story, I did that with mine. I also put tie down loops where the stock winkers were. 8mm thread if I remember. I always have a place to tie it down w/o worrying about scratching it.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m139/wreck-sports/2007%20Kymco/Picture228-1.jpg)
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Cool, when I bought the ZX50 I had fun trying to tie it down in the ute, I didnt know about those brackets then, must get some eye bolts for it. Though I hope I dont need to tie it down. ;~)
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Nice!
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Big time good idea!
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(http://www.rampconnection.com/quick-ties-2.jpg)
It looks like the one on the right. I got mine at fastenal.