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General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: thelastkahl on May 30, 2010, 04:24:56 AM

Title: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on May 30, 2010, 04:24:56 AM
So I am upgrading the variator in my Kymco Vitality 4t with some new Dr. Pulley Sliders.  I originally thought that I would go lighter than the 6.5 gram rollers that come stock, however...when I spoke to the gentleman on the phone about this he highly recomended that I stick with the 6.5 grams as I will most definetly lose top speed with anything lighter than that.  Based on what I have read I thought that this seemed reasonable and he eventually convinced that sticking with the 6.5 grams was the best choice.  I have since had my doubts...I also have a new 1500 torque spring and a set of fly springs coming to replace the stock ones in the clutch. 

Does anyone think I made the wrong decision here with not going lighter?  My goal is top speed...

Any other advice with the springs and the clutch are also greatly appreciated...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 04:30:46 AM
...i would go with at least 5 gr....

..dunno why he would have said that to you...


..makes no sense....but i'm basing my opinion on what i've found to be true with my A50 4t...



..your scoot may be different...don't think so tho....


Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on May 30, 2010, 04:39:05 AM
Figured...well they won't be here until the middle of the week.  I will post back if they was any improvement.  What exactly will the stiffer springs do for speed?
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 04:43:48 AM
..again, i dunno for sure, with your scoot, but the 1500 should keep your scoot at a higher rpm...try the 6.5s and post back...i'd be interested to know how the stock rollers work with a 1500...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 04:46:10 AM
..whatr ur fly springs rated at??
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on May 30, 2010, 04:52:22 AM
http://enviromoto.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3807551 (http://enviromoto.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3807551)


http://enviromoto.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=5507044 (http://enviromoto.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=5507044)

There they are...What do you think a little better acceleration?

Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 04:55:07 AM
..that combo looks good....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: Shaka on May 30, 2010, 05:00:27 AM
The stock 6.5g sliders may work alright with a 1500 contra spring.  The stiffer contra will do essentially the same thing as going lighter on the rollers and give you better acceleration as well as better grip on the belt to keep it from slipping.
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 05:03:30 AM
...i need a 1500 in my life...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on May 30, 2010, 05:15:17 AM
Okedokey.  I will def post back any new found speed or acceleration.  I appreciate the quick responses. 
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on May 30, 2010, 05:21:17 AM
..we're here...sometimes we ain't...

..but i'm considering replacing everything in my cvt at once...i have a bunch of miles on my OEM parts, and i've worn out my aftermarket parts..
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: Shaka on May 30, 2010, 05:21:44 AM
Okedokey.  I will def post back any new found speed or acceleration.  I appreciate the quick responses.  

Me too!  I've been busy with other stuff, but I think that will get my cvt perfectly dialed and I'll be done with tuning my scoot!  For now anyways! ;)
Okedokey.  I will def post back any new found speed or acceleration.  I appreciate the quick responses.  

No worries!  Good luck!  
Ps.  I've also found the sliders are easy to bore out on a drill press to shave some weight if needed!
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 12, 2010, 11:29:19 PM
Results not good with combos of lighter sliders(5.5 gram) and stiffer clutch springs and Torque springs...it did accelerate better...but nothing fantastic...however...top end speed was drastically decreased...31 miles per hour...back to the restricted speeds...I put in the 1000 torque spring and the stock fly springs and basically the same result...I am gonna try going back with the 6.5 gram...if that doesnt make a difference I am going back with all stock parts with CVT other than the sliders...what do u think...any advice?...also when putting the belt back on the boss I have a very hard time...any little secrets?
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 12, 2010, 11:35:31 PM
...wow...didn't expect that..

..did your engine rev really high thru takeoff, all the way to top speed??
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:09:12 AM
...okay, here's a thought kahl...

..how many miles or kms do you have on your scoot??
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:11:10 AM
I ran into this also with the mods motor peaked to soon lost all top end even the low take off, had to go from a 7.0 to an 8.5 on my people 50 did the trick.Running the white contra and fly's
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:12:21 AM
..imma print all your ppl 50 findings..

..imma be needing them soon...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:16:42 AM
I should be able to save you some money  ;D I have 20 sets of rollers 3 sets of springs  4 sets of jet pilots main needles all the wrong ones of course.Hope they work with my other builds ;D
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:18:51 AM
..i got so many .... wrong parts ...  but i learn from each one..lol..

..where th' hell you located?/
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:20:07 AM
Portland oregon,are first sunny day in quite awhile ;D
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:22:18 AM
...can't get much further away in the states than that...

..ya'll get too much rain up there...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:25:38 AM
yep :'( let me know when your ready a week or 2 in advance I'll give you a current list of what I think is working that day ;D p.s The larger tires are what through my last set up out of wack,all is good for now
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:38:46 AM
..you got the tire delima straightened out??

..coool....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:44:02 AM
...those are some narrow tires....

..i'm used to throwing my a50 into a curve...

..imma have to get used to those bicycle tires...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 12:50:20 AM
Okay...1700 miles on my 2006 Vitality 4t...Right now 1000 Torque Spring...5.5 Gram Dr. Pulley Sliders...NO Fly Springs...Any ideas would help...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:51:56 AM
YES! Probably a good place to post this info also.I ordered both a polini and a molossi veriater kit.The polini was nice for the low and mid very responsive almost precise to 45mph then just didn't seem to have it at 50+ The molossi on the other hand seemed to float a little in the low and mid but awsome 45+had better top and I think I might be able to go a 1/2 g heavier.My thoughts If your bike doesn't go over 50 I'd get the polini over 50 The molossi hands down!
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:52:18 AM
Okay...1700 miles on my 2006 Vitality 4t...Right now 1000 Torque Spring...5.5 Gram Dr. Pulley Sliders...NO Fly Springs...Any ideas would help...


...are you sure you have the sliders, and the variator...assembled correctly??
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 12:55:13 AM
If your not carefull the rollers can turn sideway on you in the veriater sound like your situation
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 12:57:28 AM
...he's got dr pulley sliders...5.5 gr shoulda worked...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 01:05:04 AM
OH,you can still put them in the wrong way I know first set I ever seen you cuold put them in 4 different ways if i remember correctly ;D
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 01:07:44 AM
..like this...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 01:11:33 AM
Wish i had that pic back then Ha!I goto go I'll check back later.good luck
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 01:12:40 AM
..peace..
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 01:35:25 AM
Yeah I used that model...Always installed with "Dr.Pulley" words on top so it is readable when placed in the ramp...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 01:41:50 AM
...wow...

..i kinda don't know what to say, if you're SURE it's together correctly...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 02:04:03 AM
Yeah I am sure.  I'm gonna go back to the 6.5 roller weights tommorrow and see if that changes anything.  If it does I will by the sliders at 6.5 gram...Does anyone ever have trouble getting their belt back up on the Boss after you initially take it off...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:08:02 AM
...cool...try the oems...post back!!

..you can squeeze the "driven" pulley's face toward the clutch bell, allowing your belt to close tighter in the clutch...

..this will give you some slack in the variator boss area...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 02:13:24 AM
Definatley tried that.  Could not get it to budge...maybe cause the 1000 torque spring?
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:16:45 AM
...well, it's pretty tight....then, i don't know yor physical strength...i can squeeze the clutch pulley...not everybody would be able to...even the oem spring might be difficult fo some....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:18:19 AM
...try to kinda turn it clockwise as you are squeezing it, as that is it's natural direction of travel during operation...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 02:42:35 AM
Deffinatly turn as squeezing they are tuff  push the belt into groove to hold in place,don't get fingers stuck in there.Did that removing a belt once ouch!Only thing you can do is force fingers in tighter to realese pressure.takes both hands and even pressure
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:44:29 AM
...lmao..yup...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 02:53:37 AM
Okay good advice...Never thought a  new 1000 torque springs and a decrease in 1 gram in the variator would cause so much decrease in top end speed...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:56:01 AM
Okay good advice...Never thought a  new 1000 torque springs and a decrease in 1 gram in the variator would cause so much decrease in top end speed...

...yeah, that still makes no sense, considering that we're talking about these changes from a OEM setup....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 02:56:56 AM
Me niether thought going to a taller tire would give more top with no tuneing Wrong!Just got to get the weights dialed in then all should be good
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:58:34 AM
1 gram in the variator



..one gram lighter per roller, right??
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 02:59:20 AM
..i'm grasping........
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 03:00:10 AM
Me? heavyer
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 03:00:40 AM
Yeah based on what I read, my CVT changes are similare to ither who have had great sucess.  I think my best bet is to try the 6.5 gram stock rollers tomorrow (when it is not raining) and see iff their is a difference.  Hopefully, or I am going back to all OEM even with the torque spring...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 03:01:29 AM
I went from a stock Torque spring...to a 1000...amd 6.5 gram rollers to a 5.5 gram sliders...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:04:15 AM
...ultimately, you gotta go with what works best with you scoot...

..if you buy a used scoot, you don't know what's been done to it...

..i changed out a cpl parts in my cvt and had to go from 4.7 gr rollers to 6 grams....

 ;)


Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 03:08:16 AM
I hear ya...well if all else fails I well just have deal with the old Kymmy the way she was before i started tinkin' with the CVT...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:09:45 AM
...there's always more....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 03:13:20 AM
Just a thought are the weights stamped  with the sizes.Those packs can be opened pretty easy I know my local shop cant always be trusted made them buy a scale and check before I walk out the door if i use them
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:14:45 AM
...every cvt kit i ever bought came with 9 gram rollers....

..waaay too heavy....
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 03:18:12 AM
The polini kit had 5.6 and 6.9's and the molossi had 9.0
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:18:58 AM
...malossi and the ncy have 9 gr...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 03:20:56 AM
So based on your experience...you think it is the the torque spring that is causing the the problems or the lighter weight sliders...or BOTH?
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: art on June 13, 2010, 03:21:07 AM
Got to burn some meat on the bbq I'll be back
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:29:18 AM
...imma hongry too...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 03:32:57 AM
Okay Im off to bed...i'll let you guys know how things go tomorrow...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: wordslinger on June 13, 2010, 03:35:04 AM
...cool, kahl...keep posting...we'll get y' straight...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: sidthesloth on June 13, 2010, 04:22:11 AM
I am running 1500 fly springs, 1000 torque spring and 6 gram sliders, with the torque spring I am thinking of going back to 7 gram rollers. A stiffer spring will have the same effect as lighter rollers. Go back to your 6.5 rollers and leave the springs and see how you go, you can then work out what weights you need. Wow, I go for a ride and this forum just explodes. Hey, Skadamo, if you're there,G'day from Aus.
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: thelastkahl on June 13, 2010, 10:09:25 PM
I started by just changing the 5.5 gram sliders to the 6.5 gram stock rollers with the 1000 torque spring still in it.  It did respond better but still not what I had for top end before the new spring.  I topped out at 36 mph...Soooo I took out the 1000 torque spring and replaced it with the stock torque spring and put in the 5.5 gram dr. pulley sliders...  With just the sliders it was back to the old top end speed with a little nicer acceleration.  It looks like if I want to keep my top end speed while using a performance torque spring I am going to have to go with some heavier sliders...I think maybe 7 or 7.5.  But thats another day as I am content with her for now...
Title: Re: Sliders/Clutch Springs/Fly Springs
Post by: sidthesloth on June 13, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
Good that you are happy with it, the best way is to change one at a time so you can assess wether or not it is the way you want to go, for me with the 1000 torque spring I will probably end up going to 7 gram rollers but at the moment I, like you you am going to let it stay as is for now. Though I have lost some top end I still have enough for what I need, (note need, not want ;) ). Once you get into it, it is fun making the changes and then riding to see the result, sometimes good, sometimes not. :)