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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: InfernoST on April 12, 2010, 09:57:10 AM

Title: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 12, 2010, 09:57:10 AM
Hi All
  I just picked up a 2010 Yager and just got done going thru the owners manual and came across something I'm not to happy about. It states that the use of any fuel containing Ethanol/Methanol will void the scoots warranty, this is a problem here in New York because it is added to the gasoline for the winter months. Is this fact, or am I interpreting that statement the wrong way? Also, wiil gasoline that contains Ethanol/Methanol damage my Yager?
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 12, 2010, 05:44:21 PM
Ethanol is the main culprit. It attacks the aluminum parts. There will be a build up of aluminum oxide inside the carb. that will attach itself to the jets creating a lean running condition. This is more pronounced after storage. To counteract the effect; Sea Foam added to every third tank will remove the oxide. Also when storing for the winter months double the dose, and be sure to run it thru the carb. Methanol attacks the rubber parts. Sea foam again will reduce the effect. I was running it on every tank, but found every third is enough. I wouldn't worry about it just use the Sea foam. 
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: juice on April 12, 2010, 08:01:03 PM
There are 2 stations in the small town I live in that sell non ethanol gas . I fill up my car and a 5 gal. can for my small engines there . Good luck .
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 12, 2010, 09:15:31 PM
What I have found here in Florida is the fuel can be "treated" by the supplier, and yet again by the distributer. Up to 10% ethanol is labeled on the pump.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 13, 2010, 12:05:54 AM
Ethanol is the main culprit. It attacks the aluminum parts. There will be a build up of aluminum oxide inside the carb. that will attach itself to the jets creating a lean running condition. This is more pronounced after storage. To counteract the effect; Sea Foam added to every third tank will remove the oxide. Also when storing for the winter months double the dose, and be sure to run it thru the carb. Methanol attacks the rubber parts. Sea foam again will reduce the effect. I was running it on every tank, but found every third is enough. I wouldn't worry about it just use the Sea foam.  
No carb, fuel injection. I will look into the Sea Foam but it is it needed for FI since there is no bowl for the fuel to sit in?
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 13, 2010, 12:31:56 AM
There are still enough aluminum, and rubber parts to be a problem. It is actually amplified by the injector because of the tiny outlet nozzle. Sea foam contains Propanol which deactivates the ethanol. If you sat a bit of aluminum in a container of ethanol you will see the effect. Same w/ rubber in methanol
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: juice on April 13, 2010, 02:02:15 AM
I live in Virginia , here if the gas has ethanol it has to be disclosed at the pump , in writing . The 2 non ethanol stations I use have no ethanol . I had to use the computer to find them . Try googling non ethanol stations in your area . Good luck .
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 13, 2010, 07:27:04 AM
There are still enough aluminum, and rubber parts to be a problem. It is actually amplified by the injector because of the tiny outlet nozzle. Sea foam contains Propanol which deactivates the ethanol. If you sat a bit of aluminum in a container of ethanol you will see the effect. Same w/ rubber in methanol

Cool, I'll order some. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 13, 2010, 07:28:28 AM
I live in Virginia , here if the gas has ethanol it has to be disclosed at the pump , in writing . The 2 non ethanol stations I use have no ethanol . I had to use the computer to find them . Try googling non ethanol stations in your area . Good luck .

I'll give it a shot. Up here in NY they also post the percentage of ethanol at the pump.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: TechGuy on April 13, 2010, 05:59:02 PM
I CA, all of the gas is treated as far as I know. 

As to the Sea-Foam, you can get it at Wal-Mart, just about any boat shop and most car parts stores.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 13, 2010, 07:36:23 PM
Cali. is ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the US. They also had the most smog at one time too. I think Lodi New Jersey may be in the lead now. I roll up the windows before getting within 50 miles of there.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 13, 2010, 08:16:08 PM
I CA, all of the gas is treated as far as I know. 

As to the Sea-Foam, you can get it at Wal-Mart, just about any boat shop and most car parts stores.
No Wal-Marts in the 5 boroughs but plenty of auto supply and boat shops.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: TechGuy on April 13, 2010, 10:18:44 PM
Cali. is ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the US. They also had the most smog at one time too. I think Lodi New Jersey may be in the lead now. I roll up the windows before getting within 50 miles of there.

When you are getting close to Lodi in CA, you need to windows up for a completely different reason. They have feed lots and a waste treatment plant along Highway 5. For about 10 miles. It gets really smelly some days.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 14, 2010, 01:43:42 AM
Maybe the name Lodi is the same as MLK BLVD. MLK is Always in da hood, And Lodi Always has a funk. It's just a joke so please don't hate me... My next home will most likely be on MLK in Lodi, See how funny it is then...
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: rick71 on April 17, 2010, 09:56:54 AM
Does Sea Foam have any effect on mileage?
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on April 17, 2010, 04:40:21 PM
Hopefully only after it clean up the fuel system, and combustion chamber. Other wise no.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 18, 2010, 08:35:43 AM
After talking with Kymco I found out the scooter warranty isn't void when using fuels with Ethanol/Methanol, any damage caused by it wont be covered.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: rick71 on April 18, 2010, 07:15:12 PM
After talking with Kymco I found out the scooter warranty isn't void when using fuels with Ethanol/Methanol, any damage caused by it wont be covered.
Are you saying that Kymco does or doesn't cover damage caused by methanol/ethanol.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on April 19, 2010, 08:44:57 AM
Are you saying that Kymco does or doesn't cover damage caused by methanol/ethanol.

Any damage caused by Ethanol/Methanol will not be covered by the warranty program, however the entire scooter is covered by the warranty against manufacturers defects for 2 years.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: wordslinger on May 04, 2010, 11:27:07 PM
...they wouldn't cover my starter...

..because i'd been doing my own service, and had no record...

..now how would one service a starter??...
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on May 04, 2010, 11:32:53 PM
Only if there is a pre existing problem. It will dissolve most impurities that collect in the fuel system so as it cleans the system it can increase mileage back to the original range. It also will clean alot of the junk out of the rings/groves bringing compression back up to specs. There are lots of additives out there. Sea Foam DOES work.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: 0BARK4322 on May 05, 2010, 12:06:16 AM
I'VE BEEN USING IT FOR A WHILE WITH NO PROBLEM
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: wordslinger on May 05, 2010, 12:39:00 AM
...i've never used an additive.....
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: 0BARK4322 on May 05, 2010, 01:10:09 AM
IF IT'S IN THE GAS AT THE PUMP WHAT CAN YOU DO---------WELL SO FAR SO GOOD
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: juice on May 05, 2010, 02:25:03 AM
check www.pure-gas.org (http://www.pure-gas.org) 
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on May 05, 2010, 04:13:44 AM
Very good link. Thanks juice
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: slunkmonky on January 31, 2012, 07:55:21 PM
Does anybody know if there is such thing as a E85 flex fuel scooter out there, or if a conversion is feasible? I have read accounts of people who get a license to run their own still and make ethanol at home from corn mash and with a small operation you can make about 5 gallons in an hour (thats an hour boiling the still, not fermentation).

I know in Brazil they have plenty of flex fuel engines in cars but I wonder if you can make generators, lawn mowers or scooters that run on it. I think for the price of a used 4 door sedan with about 80,000 miles on it you could probably instead buy a new scooter, an ethanol still and a few barrels of ingredients for ethanol and your permit and such. Have an off-the-grid scooter (assuming you dont go farther than a tank from home).
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on January 31, 2012, 08:48:41 PM
The problem with Ethanol is that it's highly corrosive and the fuel system and gaskets need to be changed in order to deal with it, also you will get lower mpg than you do with fossil fuel.  
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: ts1 on January 31, 2012, 09:41:08 PM
Does anybody know if there is such thing as a E85 flex fuel scooter out there, or if a conversion is feasible?
At least you need bigger jets in the carburetor and readjustment. Air:petrol = 14.7:1, air:ethanol = 9:1.
Still that's only practical in a warm climate like Brasil.
Europe too has many petrol stations with E85, but uses bi-fuel cars. They start with petrol and switch to E85 at a certain engine temperature.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: InfernoST on January 31, 2012, 09:50:21 PM
At least you need bigger jets in the carburetor and readjustment. Air:petrol = 14.7:1, air:ethanol = 9:1.
Still that's only practical in a warm climate like Brasil.
Europe too has many petrol stations with E85, but uses bi-fuel cars. They start with petrol and switch to E85 at a certain engine temperature.

You would have to remap the ECU for FI motors which can be very difficult.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on January 31, 2012, 10:10:03 PM
I forgot about this old thread. Seems even more relevant today, as more folks are seeing the effects of Ethanol fuel. Most of my boat work lately is due to fuel system trouble. ESPECIALLY if they are laid up for a few months.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: fshfindr on February 01, 2012, 12:42:09 AM
I'm on my second tankful with Sea Foam in my Yager.  And, I've just passed 1000 miles.  And, I just switched over to synthetic oil.  So it could be that the engine finally loosened up.  Whatever is causing it, she has a lot more power.  I find that I have to be more careful starting out.  The bike just wants to jump out.  Not complainin, just sayin.  I like it.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Ethanol/Methanol?
Post by: zombie on February 01, 2012, 12:48:19 AM
BRING ON THE POWER!