KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => People 250 => Topic started by: TechGuy on March 24, 2010, 05:37:27 PM
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OK, My Kymco P250 had stalling problems last month when pulling away from an intersection. I replaced the spark plug with an Iridium plug and I replaced the spark plug cable. While I had the tupper off I also added sliders, cleaned the clutch pads (scuffed with a green scrubby), cleaned the old clutch pad dust out of the clutch bell and checked all the bits there.
Now, when I roll up to a stop sign or light, the engine seems to bog until the clutch shoes release for a true idle. If I stop and the clutch shoes drag, the engine wants to stall.
It doesn't happen all of the time... but is worse (or seems that way) when 2-up
This is a carb'd bike
Any suggestions?
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Sounds like you need to pull the cvt cover and check everything again! If the clutch is truly sticking engaged, you either have a broken spring or they are too weak. Is the idle set too high? It could also be your mix screw needs to be adjusted for more fuel. The engine will idle high, then only sometimes drop down to normal when it is starved for fuel.
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The idle seems fine or slightly low. It's not racing or anything like that. I was wondering if the new sliders stay out longer and transmit more to the belt/clutch which keeps the bike "in gear" longer when rolling towards a stop. The clutch pads look fine.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/S53hhJHqO7I/AAAAAAAAERI/5nddRdkOnew/s800/DSCN1401.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/S53hgfVki8I/AAAAAAAAERA/6CYa66SxZDk/s800/DSCN1399.JPG)
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I have not experienced any prolonged engagement with the sliders, nor have I heard of them causing that. The clutch looks of from the outside. Can you see the fly springs in the back? Maybe try pulling on the pads and make sure there is not play. You may have to take the clutch off of the torque driver to inspect the backside where the springs go. The pivots the pads move on my be sticky and not fully returning. You could take the fly springs off and move the pads on the pivots, make sure they aren't binding.
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..it may just be the camera angle, but do those pads look like they are wearing unevenly?
???
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Well, a seat of the pants experience today told me that is has more to do with 2-up than anything else.
Today, I scooted
my daughter to school,
back to the house (quick clothes change, it wasn't PJ Day today, it's tomorrow)
back to school (1 mile each way)
to Harbor Freight ( 5 miles)
to work (~10 miles)
I have made NO carb adjustments (ever on this scoot)
When we are is sitting on the rider/pillion, it will not idle. When she climbs down, it will idle fine but maybe a little slow.
Ideas?
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..could it be that there is a vacuum tube or your fuel line...or something?? being pinched with the extra added weight of a rider?
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I will look into that... next week. I am riding 300+ miles to a rally tomorrow.
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...cool...RIDE SAFE!!!
peace
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Question... is the spark plug supposed to have the round terminal cap no it? The one that was in the scoot when I got it, and both replacement plugs do not have them either.
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The spark plug will not have the little nipple on the end. Some applications need it, but the Kymco boots do not use them The boot is made to grab the threaded post on the plug. Another Maybe for the idle issue would be the throttle cable itself. Mine has moved, and caught on one of the retainer clips. Every time I hit a dip in the road or a sharp bump (moving the rear shocks) the rpm,s would jump because the throttle cable was being pulled in the opposite direction. Also the clutch springs will lose their tension over time from the heat generated inside the housing. They may look ok, but they may be at the end of their service life. I tend to believe your trouble is elsewhere tho.
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I doubt it's the clutch. After replacing the spark plug with an Iridum, replacing the spark plug cable with new 7mm cable from NAPA, adding the sliders, scuffing the clutch pads and bell, and re-installing the windscreen; the bike is faster to accelerate, and climbs to 80 indicated with ZERO struggling.
I just idles and stalls when riding 2-up and very occasionally when 1-up. It's like the carb doesn't like the tail down lower. Or a hose is pinched ... or/// I don't know. I wish I were a better mechanic but I have been being a better dad than that.
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You are on the right track w/ the 2 up. try to replicate it w/ the plastic off. Since you replaced the plug wire your boot may be different. If you look into it you should see a tube w/ a wire spring inside to grab the threads on the plug. The second type takes the missing nipple. It looks like a cup or a bowl. If you have the wrong type THAT will affect the spark, and in turn affect the rpm's. Check the obvious first.
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(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SuCrmBOm6gw/S7DluUGCSnI/AAAAAAAAEqI/xqXaQo_6g8M/s800/IMG_4758.JPG)
Do you think this might have been a small factor in my inability to idle? :-\
My NEW QUESTION: Leo Vince or Factory Replacement Muffler? ... and why? Just looking for confirmation of my suspicions/feelings.
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..A LV muffler will require carburetor tuning after installation, but should ultimately increase performance..factory replacement should be plug-n-play...
..your pic didnt make it thru...
peace
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If the picture doesn't make it, (Picasa has s been slow today), it shows a pipe crack behind the heat should mounting screen that extends all the way around the header pipe. It was noted that it had failed at my first gas stop on my 826 mile (1330 KM) road trip from Sacramento to San Luis Obispo.
http://picasaweb.google.com/guyharrison/RidesOfMarch2010?feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/guyharrison/RidesOfMarch2010?feat=directlink)
See my Album for shots of the crack and my first patch, the central valley CA trip, the SLO Ride's of March rally and the Highway 1 route back (Until my second camera battery died).
We had over 180 scooters present on the Saturday ride through SLO , the foothills, the CA Coastline towns and general jackassery.
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I agree w/ wordslinger on the pipes. How did the stalling end up? seeing you have never adjusted the mix/idle screw I suspect the mix may be marginal at best. try warming the scoot, and aduusting the screw 1/4 turn at a time (either way) till you get the highest rpm's then turn 1/4 turn counter clockwise. that will be the final mix setting. you can then adjust the rpm's w/ the idle limiter screw. It may not solve the 2 up deal, but it should be done a few times a year to compensate for ambient temp, vibration, and just plain old wear.
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Dang! That's a big crack! I suspect that had something to do with your idling issue! I wonder if it opened the crack up wider when riding two up?
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I think I have had a small crack for a while.
1. I went looking for the change in noise source a while ago but didn't find it. -and-
2. I changed the sliders and cleaned up the clutch -and-
3. I started being able to go 80 MPH -and-
4. I started doing 2-up rides -and-
5. I rode over an hour straight at 55-80 MPH speeds -and-
6. I patched it with a soda can and muffler tape -and- rode 300 miles -and-
7. I rode from 10:30 to 18:00 on Friday with gas. bladder and food stops over some the absolutely windiest sections of any road I have EVER ridden on -and-
8. I rode home ~400 miles, between 1130 and 2145 yesterday, at sustained speeds between 55 and 85 MPH, including a 1,300 foot mountain pass.
The pipe is dead... LV or Factory is the only question left.
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That's really up to you! I'm all for more performance, but that's just me! I would imagine that you may have to do some carb jetting if you go with the LV, possibly only if you change the air filter as well though. Just have to check it. Stock should be a direct replacement.
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Have you contacted Leo V direct? Not the retailer but the factory tech support? many pipes do not require jetting. It all depends on the model # of the pipe. The leo will however be made of better grade material than the stock Kymco, and may well last the lifetime of the scoot. I have learned more form factory support than any distributer, or retailer.
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I will talk with a knowledgeable scooter dude that works at a Vespa/Kymco dealership. He was the speaker/moderator/head-bullsh**ter at the rally I just finished up at, he said call me Monday but Monday was a not a great day at work. I just wanted to nap. One of the "platinum sponsors" has the LV for about $200 on clearance. He is checking options and will let me know tomorrow.
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Restoring my own necro-post
This spring I had a stalling issue and then... I had a blown pipe... then an exploded drive belt
Just some follow-up.
I now have a new OEM muffler (nice and quiet)
I now have a new OEM CVT belt
After I got this all fixed, the bike re-insured (lapsed during this time frame) and got the tags renewed... the bike still stalled at idle after it was warm and especially after rolling and then braking for a stop sign.
I had already fiddled with the throttle speed and it still stalled and idled roughly. I was at the local CycleGear and I saw a sintered brass fuel filter for $3.99. I decided to replace the fuel filter. i installed the fuel filter and it had a small air bubble but it idled OK during warm up.... but stalled at the first stop sign. I adjusted the throttle speed up about 1/4 turn and it seems to be OK idling. I rode around the neighborhood and made LOTS of stops, some slow ones and some more sudden ones.
It seems happy! I didn't have any more stalling. I am ready for my weekend rally.
I will also post about my rear fenderectomy and my new stubby license plate tail and blinking tail lights.
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Well, I spoke too soon...
I spent that rally weekend with a bucking and snorting bitch of a scoot. She would not idle at any light or stop sigh, I resigned myself to letting it stall or shutting it off and flintstoning it or just re-starting.
After that weekend (photos below) I was not able to ride for a few weeks and then I tried a new air filter, sea-foam, more idle adjustments, prayer, divine intervention, and profanity and none of them worked..so I took it to a professional.
He and I chatted for a bit when I got to the shop and he was confused... and bewildered... and impressed. I have nearly 32,000 km on her.
He called today, she's fixed and ready to go. It took him 30 minutes to determine that it was a vacuum hose that was cracked.... I think this may go all the way back to my stall in the rain.
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Hi,
I'm no expert but if it stalls, especially when you first fill it with gas, then it has a vapor lock issue.
That's what happened to me and my 2007 p250. I finally wound up drilling a 1/64 inch hole in the top of the rubber portion of the gas cap to keep it vented at all time.
Stalling problems were gone for good. (At least for the last 2 months)
Have a good ride !
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This stalling issue only lasted about 2,000 -3,000 KM.
I got it back from the shop. When I took it in, it sounded like i was a tix box full of rocks that occasionally bucked and snorted like a bronco (not kidding). I had to keep the revs up and the brakes on to keep idling.
I finally had the time and focus to get the bike to the shop. it to the pro less than 30 minutes to fix a vacuum leak. I idles so smooth you can hardly hear it on a quiet evening. I have yet to take it for a big ride as I need to get the rear pads changed. my over active braking ate the pads and I don't want to kill my disc.