KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: Dr. Scooter on March 15, 2010, 12:19:21 AM
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I am having trouble bleeding the the rear brakes front brake master cylinder
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What's going on? Are you not getting all the air out? What are the symptoms?
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I have tried manually bleeding, bleeding with a vacuum pump, the front brake is awesome. The rear I cant get to bleed out. Its still mushy and I am not comfortable to ride it yet
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You probably just have an air bubble trapped somewhere along the line. Try lightly tapping on the caliper, line, and master cylinder with a wrench while bleeding to "dis-lodge" any bubbles along the way.
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I have a feeling it is in the relay valve
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Very well could be. Just try tapping on everything, also quick little flicks of the lever will all help to dis-lodge trapped air bubbles.
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Arkie, you prob already know this but I think there's supposed to be a bleed nipple on the delay valve too.
Think you have to take off front plastic to get to it.
I still think the service manual is unclear about bleeding that delay valve. Seems to say that when you bleed the front right, the delay valve gets bled at the same time. Or maybe it's saying that you have to bleed it at the same time. Don't know for sure.
It may be the culprit.
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It says bleed the relay valve then the rear brake then the right front. I am trying to bleed it manually tonight maybe just maybe it will work
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Ok now for a strange one I turn the cam to postion 1 and the brake feels great turn it to postion 4 and it pulls all the way in. Also why is the cap have a ring all the way around with two open spots
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I'm guessing for sure now. . . could something be bent like the brake lever or the cam? That IS listed as one of the causes of brake drag.
Somebody with experience help Arkie on this.
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I'm just guessing on your particular brakes, but the cam may adjust the pad contact point. These typically work by changing the volume of the master cylinder. It may be normal to have it nice and firm on 1 and squishy feeling on 4. That cam is to adjust the modulation at the lever for that purpose. Some people like their brakes real firm and others a bit squishy. Like I said I don't know how your brake work, but I work on mountain bikes for a living. The higher end mountain bike brakes have this feature. What position was the cam on when you bled the brakes? I've found on mt. bikes if you bleed them on the squishy setting, they get nice and firm when you flip it back to the firm setting. This is because you get the system full of fluid to max capacity on the squishy setting. When you switch to firm it pumps extra fluid to the calipers to move the pistons closer so that at the lever you have a shorter throw and firm contact.
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Arkie. I tried different cam settings on my brakes today. There was no difference in the feel or travel of the brake lever no matter what position. You get it working right yet?
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I've always thought that the cam action on the levers is purely to adjust the position of the lever, to accomodate the different size reach of the hands and had no effect on the action of the brakes. The same pressure on the lever at the two extremes of the cam setting will result in the same force on the brakes the only difference would be in whether the lever is closer to the bar for smaller hands or further from it for the bigger hands. Perhaps someone could scan the relevant pages of the workshop manual and post them I know I would like to see a bit more detail about this process and I haven't managed to get a manual yet. Keep us posted and thanks this is very important information to know. Regards from Durban RSA.
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I've always thought that the cam action on the levers is purely to adjust the position of the lever, to accomodate the different size reach of the hands and had no effect on the action of the brakes.
... and you are right.
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Then on that note I still have air in the system I need to find
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I just downloaded the service manual and checked it out. Do you have a copy? I'd be happy to send it to you via email. It does say and show how to bleed the delay valve. There is a bleed fitting on the delay valve you have to bleed it just like the calipers.
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I just made a vacuum bleeder out of a reynolds handi vacuum packer. It is working great 20 lbs of vacuum and it is making bleediing the brakes so much easier
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Whatever works! It shouldn't be very difficult to bleed them via pumping the lever. The way I do it is to pull off the resevoir cap, attach a tube and bleed bottle to the caliper nipple. Then loosen the nipple, pump the lever without releasing it, close the nipple and release the lever. Repeat until there is no air coming out the line. Be sure not to let the reservoir run empty.
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Arkie, haven't you bled everything there is to bleed? Maybe you have a faulty master cylinder on that side? Sure hope you get it fixed soon. I know you want to RIDE! And we all want to know what the final solution is. I guess I'm out of ideas right now. Good luck !!!
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Bought a one man bleeder kit today. Come to find out I had a lot of air trapped. Finally getting back to good feeling brakes. Thanks for all the support guys. Peace Happiness and the love of two wheels
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Yea !!! Let us know how it goes. ;)
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Finally got brakes yay. No I am fixing cracked plastic and painting some pieces to make my Xciting stand out
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Way cool Arkie. So it all came down to air in the line?
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Yes and lots of it
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Good deal, glad you finally got it! ;)
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And the cause of the wheel locking up?
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From what I can see the bike sat for quite some time
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I have had a similar problem this weekend only the front brack of the combination brakes it would not bleed other than a small trickle..back brake no problem squirted out. I wasnt getting air out i intended to change the fluid on a 24000k service . Did nt do the balance valve as I reasoned the brakes would bleed if I didnt do it as the balance cylinder would be full before and after bleeding only the after condition would have fresh fluid in it and both brakes should bleed fluid as they were both connected to the same reservoir, however as I say the front one wouldnt ...any clues folks? is it something to do with the action of the balance cyclinder not moving and letting fluid to the front brake..the manual does not say how this cylinderr operates...I always presumed that while the pressure was below a certain level the back one would work then the balance piston would move when the pressure rose enough and then allowed the front to work?
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I believe it works the same as a proportion valve in any car on the road. The valve itself (ballbearing) simply floats against a spring. I would think the bleeder is on the valve due to the limited flow it can handle. I have not seen the manual on this one but I would think you must bleed the line to the valve first, then bleed the remaining line to the wheel. .I always presumed that while the pressure was below a certain level the back one would work then the balance piston would move when the pressure rose enough and then allowed the front to work? I believe this statement is correct.
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I've got the manual if you'd like me to email it to you? I haven't read the whole thing but it does have a nice step by step on the bleeding procedure. You have to bleed the valve.
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Hi Shaka, I would love a copy of the manual, how many of those mega-things or giga-things is it and will it not be too big to e-mail. This computer age is something, my kids say, later Dad too busy, and the first grandkid is only two weeks old and not into computers just yet so I'll just have to wait. Just had the 4000km service done and someone at the dealer has scratched the scoot, just makes me crazy when they are so careless now I'll force them to repair it and have to put up with all the inconvenience. Regards from Durban RSA.
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It looks like the entire file is 48.1MB. I've emailed them before, just have to do it in 3 or 4 separate emails. Just PM me your email and I'll send it out.
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To bleed the front out right it takes quite some time and a lot of patience. A one man bleeder kit makes things so much easier
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Zombie I think you are correct in the way the valve works ..my logic was that if the valve has oil up to it then you should be able to bled the front brake because the oil has to pass through the valve to get to it so why bother bleeding the valve if all you want to do is bleed the front brake . the valve must allow enough oil to pass through if the front brake can be bled after the valve is done ..all very frustrating :'(
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I think it all relates to one of my two favorite sayings. KISS (Keep it simple stupid), and if that dosen't work BFPFI (Brute force, and pure F'in ignorance)
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;D 100% Zombie!!!!lol
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Who's your buddy?
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Even though this thread is out-dated, I'd like to add my two cents.
When using a vacuum method, be sure that you're bleeder valve has "Thread Sealant" on it, otherwise you *will* draw in air via the thread, making it difficult to know if it's air in the line or air you're bringing in.
Make sure you know the difference between Thread Sealant and Thread Locker. Sound obvious, but some actually use the wrong one.
Also, I've seen many threads on many forums saying to use and not use Teflon tape. Brake fluid will eat the tape and turn into a gummy muck. Best to use proper "Thread Sealant". You won't need much and you'll get a great result.
PS: My 500 doesn't have the bleeder valve on the Delay Valve, so I have no way of bleeding that. Just have to make sure I dip the bike on a forward leaning angle for any caught air to go up.
Best method I've used so far for bleeding the brake is the "Reverse Bleed" Check it out on YouTube. It's a very quick way of changing the fluid and ensures you push all the air up the system, not down.
Cheers!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRzN896Uyw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRzN896Uyw)
Nice!
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Yes, zombie. I've seen that clip before.
The one YouTube Channel I've found indispensable is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOXDrrwQRZqOQ3iUCXN12rw (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOXDrrwQRZqOQ3iUCXN12rw)
There are many great videos there. He has a Triumph Tiger which has a very similar caliper to the Xciting 500 Rear caliper.
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Very nice. I bookmarked the link.
I'm working on a Bonneville 650, and have been following this fella...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHBSW920nE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHBSW920nE)